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A few questions about Klingon ships
Sapharite:
You're wrong because B'rel is a TNG invention designed especially for TNG. As for D12 she was seen in ST2, ST3, ST4 and ST: Gens (as a old junk)
In my MOD:
In my opinion B'rel is a TNG era invention. In TOS there was K22, In TMP 1-6 there was D11, D12 (later retired because of the defected plasma coils), D13 (first one was a prototype which general Kang used during Kithomer camp peace conference). D13 maintained in service till the end of Dominion War. In my opinion these are scouts with the limited crew.
B'rel and K'vort are two different variant of the same cruiser. K'vort has more diplomatic and command capabilities and more representatie role than B'rel - the same situation was with the IKC Kronos - a K'Tinga class designed for diplomatic capabilities to carry Chancellor Gorkon. K'vort was seen to carry Kurn the brother of Worf. B'rel and K'vort are Klingon Cruisers with the Light Cruiser designations.
As for D'tai I have designated two ships. First of them was seen attacking in group of three USS Enterprise D in an alternate timeline during the encounter with Enterprise C. Second ship was seen in the group of three among Enterprise D and the Warbirds in (I forgot the details of this episode. Somebody had mentioned it in this post above). I classify those ships as a D'tai battleship.
In my opinion grouping those BOPs in such groups sounds more resonable. It solves some problems with many inconsistencies :)
Take care :)
ModelsPlease:
Ok so what about the D32 greater bird from ST VI is that a scout @ 90-160M or was it bigger,like B'rel size,or somewhere in the middle ?
Sapharite:
I've never heard the name D32. Where did you get that?? BTW She was a prototype. First in her class. She was mentioned by Lost era ST fan books but never ever seen on screen exept ST:VI. There is another article and another resonable explanations for BOPs in ST. Read it please:
http://www.ditl.org/datarticle.php?23
I take it she had the same size as D12. In my opinion this was not D32 but D13 seen in TNG as well but without experimental cloack
Sapharite:
BTW:
Length Scaling Factor Name Description
35 metres 0.321 K'pak Seen in 'Way of the Warrior'. Name is
speculation.
109 metres 1 Bird of Prey (D11/12/13) Actual designed size of the original
model, supported by most of the evidence from ST III/IV.
Variants of similar size appear in further films and TNG/DS9. D
numbers of all but the D12 are speculation.
327 metres 3 B'rel Seen and named as the B'rel in 'Rascals'. Ships of this
approximate size in TNG are assumed to be B'rel class also.
654 metres 6 D'tai Seen in 'The Defector'. Name is speculation.
Sapharite:
There is no data on K'vort class. So I assume that K'vort and B'rel are the same ship or at least their variants. They had almost approximately the same size in DS9. http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/bop-size.htm
--- Quote ---
Small BoPs The design size (scale chart, window rows) of the BoP is consistent at 110m, and the screen evidence from "Star Trek III" largely supports this size. "Star Trek IV" shows the very same ship, but this time it is sometimes at most 60m. On the other hand, the BoP is capable of carrying two humpback whales, and the 60m warship could hardly have the shown huge cargo bay. This is a reason to favor a 110m size for the Bounty. Another point is that the Rotarran also works at 110m, if the Defiant is 120m long and DS9's diameter is 1100m, which corresponds to their initial design sizes. At this size it would be no problem to accommodate 36 instead of 12 crew members, even if the cargo bay remains that large. The Rotarran is somewhat larger than 110m in comparison to the Vor'cha in DS9: "Sons and Daughters", but this has to be ignored for the sake of overall consistency. Another problem is the very small BoP in DS9: "Way of the Warrior". Although it doesn't play a role in the considerations on the "real" BoP sizes, it can be exposed as careless VFX, because there has been no other 50m BoP since "Star Trek IV", and the latter was an error.
Large BoPs These ships appear in a number of TNG episodes and are scaled to sizes of 230m ("A Matter of Honor"), 320m ("Reunion", "Redemption"), 350m ("Yesterday's Enterprise", "Rascals") and more than 700m ("The Defector"). The 230m Pagh could be interpreted as a small BoP of 110m, since the screen evidence is not that definite and the ship has moveable wings. There are two feasible explanations for the other five ships:
1. The five large BoPs are considerably different and much larger types, with K'Vort class and B'rel class being evidently the same size . Due to the lacking resolution of the TV screen they nevertheless appear to have the same hull shape as the much smaller movie type (D-12 class). The large BoPs, K'Vort and B'rel, have fixed wings and they are obviously serious threats to a Vor'cha, Galaxy or D'deridex class. There is only one size of large BoPs, of course. The length is most likely around 350m. The large BoPs don't appear any more after the time of TNG, which could mean all of them, like the B'rel, are obsolete by then, while the smaller type is still in service.
2. The three large BoPs are actually the same size as the small ones, they only appear enlarged by a weird "lens aberration". Sometimes the BoPs seem to be reduced in size likewise. There might be different types or classes of BoPs, but the hull is always essentially the same. It is possible that some BoP types don't need to change to a special attack configuration of the wings and are better equipped so as to be a match for much larger ships. The only BoP size is 110m. It is a matter of taste if the absurd "Defector" BoP is included into the theory.
--- End quote ---
As a solution I choose my own way which is a result of these two articles - one Daystroms and second one Ex-Astrsix Scientias :)...
BTW that BOP was carrying one whale :D Huback whale. Check Humback's size. We can also assume this Humback was not to old.
And remember - B'rel is a designation used first time in TNG. Nobody mentioned B'rel in TOS or TMP. B'rel is TNG invention. As for D12 - we can assume she was the ship which have been shown in ST:TMP:I-VI nad ST:VII.
The name K'vort was also mentioned in a alternate universe which was not cannon at all. It was like AGT - All Good Things. In AGT they mentioned Warp 13 which is unavailable to achieve due to the laws of physics. I do not care about alternate universes with one exeption - mirror universe - it's technology was the same exept ship called Regency and people, characters.
K'vort was also seen in DS9 and propably in normal universe during TNG espisodes. K'vort appear to have the same size as the B'rel class. As a result there are two explantaions. First one: B'rel and K'vort are the same class of ship called B'rel. Second one: B'rel and K'vort are two different variants of the same class.
D12 - a smaller Bird of prey seen in ST VII. She was retired because of the defected plasma coils. That is why she was used by Klingon Renegades. The name D13 is a speculation but truly accepted by the trekkies. Logically if there is D12 and D13 their ancestor should be designated as D11.
I do not care about FASA and other timeline ships. They are another story. I am only taking TOS, TMP (ST:I-VI), TNG, STVII, DS9, VOY, STVIII, STIX, ST X into consideration...
Take care :) ??? ;D
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