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Author Topic: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is  (Read 866 times)

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Dash Jones

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2005, 11:08:18 am »
I think that it's very interesting that despite all the assertions that the new BSG 'sucks', it will be picked up for another season... something that the unassailable original series failed to do...

Yep, the original was #1 in the ratings, this new remake is...as I said before...what #5000th...

It's all about the money though.  The original, depsite having stellar ratings, was costing the execs well over a million an episode, whilst in today's TV market that doesn't seem much, in the 70s I suppose it sounded outrageous.

So it didn't make the money that other shows did because of the costs of producing it.

I suppose it boils down to a better money making scheme now.  It's not about how many watch, but how profitable it is.  At least that's what I figure, as this BSG is at the bottom of the ratings charts in comparison to the top ten shows typically from what I've seen in the US ratings.

Of course then again, I suppose you could compare it to the other small time shows that originally shouldn't have been low on the ratings lists but are...like Enterprise...and make it seem that much better when comparing ratings.

But compared to the original's ratings and numbers...the new remake doesn't come close.  It has a second season for other reasonings than ratings, numbers watching, or those who like it.  It's called money.
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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2005, 11:23:46 am »
Interesting new BSG season 1 review from die-hard Trekkie fan that should serve as a good rebuttal to first post in this thread:

source:  http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/weblogs/brain/archives/001279.html

Battlestar Galactica: A season too sweet, too short
March 30, 2005

What amazes me so much about Battlestar Galactica is how much I'll miss the grim and gripping saga between the finale of a too-short 13-episode season Friday night and the start of a second season in July.

This from a die-hard Trekkie who likely won't shed a tear when Enterprise finally clunks its way off the interstellar stage later this spring.

Much to my surprise, the producers have continued to find amazing depth in the tale of 47,000-odd refugees fleeing the destruction their civilization by renegade androids. Where the cheesy 1970s series quickly resorted to plots about aliens, clones and gods, the new Galactica deftly drives the story along with tension, mystery and interpersonal conflict between richly-drawn characters.

The dramatic premise of the show -- that the Battlestar Galactica and a relative handful of Colonial spaceships have just escaped from the Cylons and are always on the verge of being discovered -- is tautly maintained from episode to episode. (I also found the original miniseries "fierce and entertaining."

The series may not be "hard" science fiction with realistic physics and detailed calculations, but the main plot is driven by "the situation": Early episodes dealt with the strain of continuously fleeing the Cylons; running short of water due to sabotage; the search for water; running short of food; running short of pilots; the search for fuel; political tensions as people demand a say in their government.

There really hasn't been a need to contrive storylines involving, say, the need to fly the fleet past an ice planet with a giant gun on it. Once you build a more or less coherent universe for your characters to move around in, some storylines will develop naturally. Galactica reminds me a lot of Babylon 5 and Star Trek: Deep Space 9 in that way.

The nature of the Cylons -- the fact that some can now take human form -- also adds a continuing tension to almost every interaction on the show. In a parallel to today's terrorism fears, the Colonials constantly fear Cylon infiltrators. And until everyone is tested and his or her loyalty is confirmed, anyone could be a Cylon. (Who'd expect an episode about torturing a robot to be so thought-provoking?)

Layered on top of this are the political clashes: President Laura Roslin vs. Commander William Adama, Roslin vs. populist rebel Tom Zarek, plus Dr. Gaius Baltar's new role as Roslin's vice president. And we have all the interpersonal issues: Adama and his son, Lee (Apollo); Lee's thing for Lt. Kara Thrace (Starbuck); Adama's issues with Starbuck over the death of his other son, Zack; plus too many more to list. Even if you don't for the sci-fi, it's a bloody wonderful space soap opera.

The show also has had an appealing sense of unfolding mystery to it. As the introductory narrative explains every episode, it's clear that the Cylons have some sort of plan. It was never clearly explained why they chose to wipe out humanity. Simple revenge? Because humans don't believe in their one god? For the old sci-fi adage that they'll eventually wind up fighting with humans over resources anyway? Is the Cylon god just a token of faith -- or a product of their networked consciousness or a mainframe somewhere?

Plus there's the whole Lt. Sharon Valerii (Boomer) / Lt. Karl C. Agathon (Helo) thing that's been going on on Caprica, some sort of Cylon experiment gone awry. It's clear the Cylons want to feel and somehow need to interact with humans to do it. I can't believe Helo's the only survivor. It wouldn't surprise me to see more of them turn up, or to see Cylon-raised humans or Cylon-turned humans show up to harass the Colonials.

The last few episodes have introduced some new supernatural elements, with Roslin apparently having visions and prophecies apparently coming true. Unless you're talking Jedi, I'm always a bit troubled when writers blend their supernatural elements with their sci-fi -- people look silly enough talking about things foreseen in ancient writings without holding blasters in their hands -- but if the Galactica folks can pull this one off without sending everyone back to 1980s Earth in white uniforms, I'll be happy.

Ever since DS9 went off the air, I've wished Trek could do half so well.


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Death_Merchant

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2005, 12:05:16 pm »
Interesting... strong opinions on both sides. No surprise to me ;)

I will say this: My DVR is set to record BSG, but not Enterprise anymore.
BSG has me interested in the characters, Enterprise does not.

I guess that is what it boils down to for me. Take the BSG episode "The Hand of God". This is a "Big Mac" episode according to Moore ("Big Mac" means a big, fun, wow-em shoot-em-up gift for the fans).

Did I like the battle sequence? Sure
Is that why I loved the episode? Nope

I loved the fact that a few Viper pilots went down, and you recognized them from previous episodes (not faceless stock-shots of exploding ships). I loved the fact that the "best pilot - Starbuck" could not go, and she was wrestling with that. I loved Apollo's friends and father implying they thought he might not be up to the task, and Apollo realizing they felt that.

No one would have doubted the original Apollo. He had no doubts, he made no mistakes, he had no flaws.
In the 70's, I liked that. Now? I find it uninteresting.

Opinions? Everyone has them.
Yours may differ ;)
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E_Look NCC-9091

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2005, 02:34:17 pm »
Hmmmm.... shouldn't it be WOP drive?  IE "With Out Parents"

Bear, "P" stood for "passport".
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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2005, 04:02:28 pm »
Hmmmm.... shouldn't it be WOP drive?  IE "With Out Parents"

Bear, "P" stood for "passport".

Not where I grew up.... ;)
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jualdeaux

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2005, 04:38:41 pm »
I can not speak about how I like or dislike the new series due to the fact that I gave up cable a while ago and don't even have broadcast. I will say that i was not overly thrilled at the "miniseries."

My post is about the ratings and how people are sayting that the original series was #1 and the new is at the bottom. Back when the original was on, there were how many channels to really choose from? 3? maybe 4? How many are there now to choose from? 500 plus for some people? Very few, if any, shows these days are getting the same percentage of viewership as was possible in the past. Granted, there are more people watching, but they still have hundreds of channels to choose from.
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TheJudge

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2005, 07:17:49 pm »
The original series premiered in an era where you had ABC, CBS, NBC, and PBS on television, with maybe a few independent stations. 

The new series premieres in an era when a cable channel that pulls a 3.2 share is considered a success.  For broadcast stations, that's borderline.  Any broadcast show at 3.2 that costs what a sci-fi show costs can really expect cancellation.  On the other hand, cable stations don't have to pull the four to ten shares for advertisers to dish out the bucks.  What's more important is the category of viewers, and the BSG is pulling in those viewers like crazy.  It doesn't need a high overall rating.

Here's the kicker though...if NBC were to bring it into its regular line-up, it could challenge the front-running shows.  If NBC were smart, it'd bring BSG into its line-up as filler...take its worst-rated slot, plug in BSG at NO EXTRA cost.  Show the original episode on the previous friday night, then the next week plug in the BSG for free (NBC-Universal owns Sci-Fi, NBC, and USA as well as several others).  If BSG can pull a five rating on the NBC broadcasts, as well as compete with the Friday night sci-fi shows, it will make a lot of money for NBC.  Here's something else to ponder, with its CURRENT RATINGS, BSG is beating Enterprise, SG-1, and SG Atlantis each week.  It is the #1 show for its network, Sci-fi. 

As a comparison, the other highest rated show on cable for Friday nights is Monk.  This is owned by the same company as Sci-Fi.  Monk has been established as a cult hit for years now, and pulls in regular ratings each year.  Guess what? BSG is either #1, just beating out Monk, or is just beaten out by Monk and takes the #2 slot each Friday for cable broadcast shows.  Guess what that means...ADVERTISER DOLLARS.

BSG is pulling in the BIG BOYS of advertisers, the ones who dish out millions to make a splash every year at the super bowl.  More importantly, they're paying TOP DOLLAR for BSG advertising slots.  Last week I heard that BSG is pulling as much for a 30 second slot as any of the broadcast channels are charging and almost the same amount as Monk.  The original show died because advertising revenue did NOT exceed production costs by a wide-enough margin.  The new BSG got renewed because Advertising revenues are through the roof in comparison to production costs and that's with people on the cast like Edward James Olmos and Mary Mcdonough (sp?). 

Those two do NOT come cheap, and they're worth every penny.  They form the core of this show and hold it up very well.  Considering that most of its viewers are in the CRITICAL 18-49 group, the advertisers will continue to flock to this show. 

Love it or hate it, the NEW BSG has what it takes to make it on television. 
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GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2005, 01:05:35 pm »
My post is about the ratings and how people are sayting that the original series was #1 and the new is at the bottom.

Guys, the old show was not #1.  It hovered near the bottom, at least in the second half of its single season.

I remember, because the original BSG was the year that my paper's TV guide insert first starting regularly posting the Nielson ratings each week.  They posted the top ten shows and the bottom five.  Each week I opened the ratings with hope, and each week there was BSG, second or third from the bottom.  I was upset when the show was cancelled but I was not surprised.

Now, that was the last half of the season.  The three-hour bonanza that kicked it off was hyped a great deal, and may very well have ranked #1.  I've no idea.

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TheJudge

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2005, 02:33:19 pm »
The old show as cancelled after one season because it didn't make enough money for the network.  The new show is renewed because it makes enough money for the network.

that's the bottom line.
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GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2005, 03:27:00 pm »
To be sure, I'm a big fan of the new show now.  That is a surprise to me, since from the pre-show press I didn't think I would like it.  I enjoy watching it because it has that rare quality among Science Fiction shows these days:  it is an engaging story that is well written on a consistent basis.   It also helps that my wife loves it, and hates SG1 and Enterprise, so it is the one good science fiction show I can watch with her.

Dirk Benedict does remind me of one thing I loathe about the new show however:  In this new version, the humans built the cylons.  WTF?

The whole "our destruction is our own fault" story was interesting the first time I saw it (about thirty years ago....) but by now it's been done to death and I'm sick of it.  Seems like we can't ever be the good guys anymore.   

When I heard the Cylons were going to be re-worked, I'd rather hoped for a return to the original concept:  the Cylons were an alien race rarely seen outside of their powered combat suits.  This concept was kept in the novelizations and the novels, but dropped on TV.  ABC didn't want a lot of killing every week -- not even alien killing.  That was "too violent".   So the Cylons were turned into robots for TV.  None of the suits cared if robots got killed every week.

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TheJudge

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2005, 03:49:51 pm »
I've liked the we are are own worst enemy theme.  It's not fifty years old, it's as old as the bible itself.  :)  Maybe even older.

You really need to watch the deleted scenes.  Episode 12 had a deleted scene that laid out the whole cylon plan to anyone with half a brain.  it's more than just machines rebelling against man, which Asimov did to perfection in his books. 

Oh, and um, have you ever noticed just how sexy Ron Moore's voice is?  I'm listening ot his podcast right now. 
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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2005, 04:07:26 pm »
I've liked the we are are own worst enemy theme.  It's not fifty years old, it's as old as the bible itself.  :)  Maybe even older.

YEah, but *I'm* not that old!

Quote
You really need to watch the deleted scenes.  Episode 12 had a deleted scene that laid out the whole cylon plan to anyone with half a brain.  it's more than just machines rebelling against man, which Asimov did to perfection in his books. 

I'd love to.  Do you have a link?  My wife and I stay about a week behind on episodes because of some really crazy work schedules we've had.  Thus I've avoided most of the BSG threads and have likely missed the link if you've posted it before.

By the way, I've meant to post this for some time:  When the show started this season, I *loved* reading your threads on it.  Even though you'd seen the entire season in advance you were still able to talk about the show and hold interesting discussions without giving anything away and without making me scroll past spoiler warnings.   (I hate doing that, I always end seeing something I wish I hadn't.)  Those were some of the best posts I've ever read from someone who had advanced knowledge on a topic I wanted to read about and yet was polite enough not to spoil it for anyone else.


Quote
Oh, and um, have you ever noticed just how sexy Ron Moore's voice is?  I'm listening ot his podcast right now. 

I'm sorry, what did you say?  I had to stop listening because Boomer was talking......    :P

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TheJudge

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2005, 04:18:10 pm »
Thanks for the kind words on spoilers and my early posts.  :)


Here's the link to Ron Moore's Blog:  http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/

Here's the link to the episodes (scroll down for the deleted scenes):  http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/112/ (the one I referred to is the second row, first picture with baltar and starbuck facing each other)

Also, here's the link for the podcasts:  http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/index.html


Now, here's a SPOILER about the role Dirk Benedict COULD HAVE HAD on BSG:






























Ron Moore's podcast gives us his original ending to the Season:  Baltar walks into a dark room under the Kobol temple and is greated with Jimmy Hendrix music.  Dirk Benedict walks out from behind him and says:  Hi, I'm God (referring to the CYLON GOD).

FrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrackFrack

Now THAT would have been geek boy ending.

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Death_Merchant

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2005, 12:01:08 pm »
Much gushing and drooling over Part II of the season finale over at aintitcoolnews

Don't even think of clicking this link unless you've seen it. MAJOR spoilage.

I did say MAJOR SPOILAGE didn't I?
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=19781
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Villa64 NCC-64D

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2005, 09:14:46 pm »
Judge

Thanks for the post regarding ratings.  I was leaving for Texas over the weekend and didnt get a chance to look up the ratings for the show to respond, but suspected that what you posted was the case.  Hey Dash... what he said.

I saw the finale Friday night.  Cool!  I think it may be the primer for next season... The whole senior leadership is gone, and their replacements are all evil!  Cool!  I also liked the scene where the chief tells the LT that he needs to get a move on.  That one gets replayed daily in real life.

Back to real life (I hate reruns)
Villa
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