Slave Girls Mod Corrections

[FPF-DieHard]

Do you have the actual correct refits of the Lyran ships or do you need them?

Post them here and I will make the corrections tonight

[FPF-DieHard]

look, the Z-BF is a BS Cheese-ship but I don't think it will be that bad with eh new FYA of 2268.  By that point the Klinks start getting more AMD and the Lyrans are getting power refits.

Fleeting rules clasifying CFs as metal to prevent them from flying with Dreads and/or each other should finally make them reasonable so either way it should not be a big deal.

[Lear]

how about the romulan cl "f" refits also

[Dizzy]

-Fed CS+(unique) left in- LYA changed for 1 year overlap of NCL (which happens to be YFA of NCL+)

If the NCL comes out in 6, then the YLA for the CS+ should also be 6. That way they both show in the yards on that stardate for a year of ovelap. If you dont want any overlap, phase them out at 5 if the NCL comes in at 6. 7 gives you 2 years of overlap, the same year and another... too much

[Dizzy]

Do u want the serverside list from sg6, it has a few corrections we made mid server. Or use the revision list and just update that to include what was done to the serverside.

[FPF-DieHard]

how about the romulan cl "f" refits also

Which ships?  SPL+ and what else is missing?
 

[FPF-DieHard]

Do u want the serverside list from sg6, it has a few corrections we made mid server. Or use the revision list and just update that to include what was done to the serverside.

Argh, I already started.   Just PM me the changes you guys made serverside and I'll incorporate them in the BETA list

[FPF-DieHard]

Dizzy, should I do the DCR reduction to the SPecialtie ships or hld off on it until we decide we want to do this?

[Dizzy]

Dizzy, should I do the DCR reduction to the SPecialtie ships or hld off on it until we decide we want to do this?

Hold off for now, but CF's should get a DCR of 1 and DNL's 2.

Lets see... the serverside changes.... the ISC CCZ(f)/BCV all had their DCR increased to 3. I'll check to see what else was done. Basically some K-swifts to L-swifts in the lyran carriers...

[Hexx]

Some of this may seem confusing as (as I've mentioned0 FS seems to have reversed the power and phaser refits
(althought the phaser refits were available from 68, for "balance" I'll leve them out until the year they became "common" for that ship)
L-DN
LDNP add 4 APR 1 Battery (to the base DN)(YFA 5 YLA 6) (Replaces DN)
DNP+ add 8 pts each to shleld 3,4,5 replace 1 Ph3 LS,1 Ph3 RS  with Ph1's (to the DNP) (YFA 7,YLA 16)

L-DNL
No refit years given- everything available from start. Simply YFA DNLPp 5

BC
L-BCP add 8 APR 2 Battery (to the BC)(YFA 5,YLA 6) (Replaces BC)
L-BCP+ add 8pts to shield 3,4,5 ,replace 1 Ph3 LS,1Ph3 RS with Ph1's (to the BCP)(YFA 7,YLA 16)

CWL
CWLPp available from YFA 5 (replaces CWL,CWLp)

CWEP replaces CWE (YFA 8 )

CWPp replaces CWP (YFA 5 )

[Dizzy]

Ya, I know FS did some funky things with the lyrans. I hope DH knows wtf u are trying to explain to him, Hexx, because it looks too confusing for me.

[Hexx]

I have no idea what he did for some of them
-basically these dates give the power refit when it's first available on these ships (68)
but leaves the phaser & shiled refits off until the date they were common.
(Except for the DNLp which wasn't given info for either)

Of course with the apparent conitnued uparming of our neighbors ships we reserve the right to demand more stuff.
(looking forward to the day where all Hydran and Kzin are given an extra 6 PhGs  to deal with the fact they might not be better than every other ship in PVP and hex flipping missions  )

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Of course with the apparent conitnued uparming of our neighbors ships we reserve the right to demand more stuff.
(looking forward to the day where all Hydran and Kzin are given an extra 6 PhGs  to deal with the fact they might not be better than every other ship in PVP and hex flipping missions  )

HA!  I am still waiting on my extra PhG's to counter the extra drones the Klinks got to put them on par with the Feds the first time!!!

Thankfully, they have been removed... but now here we go again...

IE:

Klingon:
-   K-C10K: Set back to “stock” for testing.  DC stays at 12.
-   K-C8VK:  4 B-racks added.  2 Disrupters (FX) removed.  2 Phaser 1 removed.  Ship is very close to Z-CVAR
-   2 B-racks added to small carriers.
-   Check the YFA's for all ships- Klingon D5P/D6P/DWP all have YFA's of 14- should be 16 (when the K-INT is out)

[Hexx]

Anotehr idea- why not do the next SG (or whatver you two are working on) server as
F-R-L-I vs K-H-G-Z

Give everyone another look at what it's like to fly with/against some of the stuff that's out there
over the course of a server.

[Hexx]

Of course with the apparent conitnued uparming of our neighbors ships we reserve the right to demand more stuff.
(looking forward to the day where all Hydran and Kzin are given an extra 6 PhGs  to deal with the fact they might not be better than every other ship in PVP and hex flipping missions  )

HA!  I am still waiting on my extra PhG's to counter the extra drones the Klinks got to put them on par with the Feds the first time!!!

Thankfully, they have been removed... but now here we go again...

IE:

Klingon:
-   K-C10K: Set back to “stock” for testing.  DC stays at 12.
-   K-C8VK:  4 B-racks added.  2 Disrupters (FX) removed.  2 Phaser 1 removed.  Ship is very close to Z-CVAR
-   2 B-racks added to small carriers.
-   Check the YFA's for all ships- Klingon D5P/D6P/DWP all have YFA's of 14- should be 16 (when the K-INT is out)

I think the real lesson learned here is that the Fed ships should be toned down to match the Klinks, not the other way around 

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

I think the best thing is to stop acting like this is a game instead of a simulation, not everyone is supposed to be on par with everyone else.

Hell, it ain't good enough for folks that the klinks that they will have the only BB?

What you propose sounds like the Treaty for the Limitation and Reduction of Naval Armament of 1930.

'You will only build ships up to 30,000 tons, only arm them with up to 9 16" guns and up to 20 secondary guns....'

[Hexx]

I think the best thing is to stop acting like this is a game instead of a simulation, not everyone is supposed to be on par with everyone else.

Hell, it ain't good enough for folks that the klinks that they will have the only BB?

What you propose sounds like the Treaty for the Limitation and Reduction of Naval Armament of 1930.

'You will only build ships up to 30,000 tons, only arm them with up to 9 16" guns and up to 20 secondary guns....'

Whoops didn't know this was serious..
With the ability to field one while the Feds field 2xDNH's, not really (have to ask the Klinks though-I dunno)

And ~ simply for fed/klink baalnce

With the Feds having better attrition units (fighters) before PF's
With the Feds getting  better attrtion unit after PF's (..uhmm PF)
With the Feds having the best metal (DNH,DNL,DVL)
Feds having better CF
Feds having better carriers (across the board- did I mention the better fighter as well?)
Feds getting the CS+

BCH's are easily a trade off (I;d give advantage C7, but keep hearing the BCF is somehow good?)
Klinks get a trade off (heck call it a better) CWL
and easily (imo anyway) a better droner

Yes it's a game, based on a game
A Game based on a game that worked it's balance through the idea the "good guys get good stuff, bad guys get numbers"
Something we can't approximate here.

I think they're doing a good job trying to balance the stuff. I just think they've started to go to places they didn't need to.
(again-why do the Kzin need a ship to fight plasma? Are the plasma races getting a better hex flipper earlier?)

[Dizzy]

This is a mod correction thread, not a debate thread. Stop posting diatribes. Your concerns are falling on deaf ears. I'll not entertain newcomers to shiplist corrections when they have missed the last 12 server revisions and dont know any of the 'why's' things were done.

Afa the Klink carriers with droners, they have seesawed between no drones, F and B racks and back again. Cutting thru the reasoning over the last few years of their dev work, it comes down to this, finding the right balance is tough because making them attractive enough for a klink player to fly but at the same time w/o making them unbalanced vs their traditional enemies is such that compromise is nearly never achieved.

[FPF-DieHard]

THIS IS ALL BETA.

Chilll out.  We will test stuff before going live and if any of my ideas are too much, they will be toned down or removed.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Whoops didn't know this was serious..

It is never that serious. 

But the last upgrade of the Klink carriers resulted in a n00b fighter jock (KBF guy, can't remember the name) ran modified K-C8VK pwning my H-ID so quickly it wasn't even funny.

And Dizzy, STFU, I have been involved in play testing shiplists before and have been against adding (more) drone racks to the klink carriers from the begining.

[762_XC]

The drone fighter vs Stinger issue is still a big one.

All other things being equal, 16 ZY's or TADS will absolutely laugh at 16 Stingers of either variety.

There's not much we can do about the stupidity of the fighter AI, but adding racks to Klink carriers does exacerbate one already heinous problem.

What exactly is wrong with Klink carriers, other than the fact that none of the Klink pilots know how to fly one?

[Dizzy]

I'd prefer to see the C8VK lose 2x Dizzies and gain 2 B racks, not the way DH has it current. But it needs to be playtested and since you are so passionate about it, bear, you can stfu yourself and be the c8v canon fodder in the ID. And I dont care how many shiplists you've tested. SG shiplist isnt a shiplist, it's art. You dont have to be qualified or have experience for this... You see that crap they put up in the musuem of Chicago? 3 year old did it. Looks like the same exact abstract sh*t adults do.

You need to grasp something, this shiplist work is an art form. Let it move you. Let it awe you. That is all.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

There's not much we can do about the stupidity of the fighter AI, but adding racks to Klink carriers does exacerbate one already heinous problem.

Especially when they take heavy drones and wipe out one or two fighter groups....

And Dizzy,

Consistency, please....

First it is:

I'll not entertain newcomers to shiplist corrections when they have missed the last 12 server revisions and dont know any of the 'why's' things were done.

Now it is:

You dont have to be qualified or have experience for this...

 


*snicker*

[Dizzy]

All other things being equal, 16 ZY's or TADS will absolutely laugh at 16 Stingers of either variety.
What exactly is wrong with Klink carriers, other than the fact that none of the Klink pilots know how to fly one?

Im not too concerned witht he difference between the c8v having 2 or 4 B racks compared to the H-ID. This has always been a bit of a mismatch. Nothing we can do about it really. The main focus is balancing the C8V vs the Z-cva. How attractive can we make the C8V to a klink player w/o it upsetting the balance vs the zcva? You need to also put into perspective that there usually wont ever be more than one of these on the board at a time.

[Dizzy]

Bear, its all arbitrary. I cant believe you needed me type it out for you. Now Im beginning to explain it to you. Its NEVER a good idea to hash this kinda stuff out in public. So gay... DH u have a PM.

[FPF-DieHard]

we'lll make a couple of varients of the C8VK to test.   I think Dizzy's proposal is preobrably the most reasonable.

[FPF-DieHard]

All other things being equal, 16 ZY's or TADS will absolutely laugh at 16 Stingers of either variety.
What exactly is wrong with Klink carriers, other than the fact that none of the Klink pilots know how to fly one?

Im not too concerned witht he difference between the c8v having 2 or 4 B racks compared to the H-ID. This has always been a bit of a mismatch. Nothing we can do about it really. The main focus is balancing the C8V vs the Z-cva. How attractive can we make the C8V to a klink player w/o it upsetting the balance vs the zcva? You need to also put into perspective that there usually wont ever be more than one of these on the board at a time.

How does the ID fair against a Z-CVA?  How the Z-CVA is harder than the C8VK that loses 2 dizzies and gainst 2 B-racks.  Hydran and mirak have fought many times, even when the Mirak fighters were greatly superior to the Klingon.

t00l's right, we really can't do anything about the fighters being so fricking stupid.

Guys, please be nicer to each other.  I like the idea of sharing ideas in a open forum for feedback, this is a brainstorming sessions where a lot of ideas will come out.   Some are good, some are bad.  I prefer to present everything in the open and then wittle away the crap.

This can work as long as everyone is nice to each other.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

I have fought twice against a Z-CVA flown by Fluf with myself in an H-ID.  Once I beat him.  The other time, I j'inned myself (I didn't know rotating rocks needed extra clearance back then ), but was handing him his ass before I did it.

I also curtailed 2 Z-CVA's while flying a F-BCF. But that is probably not relevant.... especially since one was J'inn (can't remember who the other was)


Edit:  This was back before SFB fighters, I had HornetIII's and they were sporting the mobile SP's known as MastiffIII's.

[762_XC]

The last time I fought an ID vs Z-CVA match was on SS2, long before the last patch which frakked fighter interaction. I won it then (vs Green) but would not have had a prayer after the patch.

I honestly don't see any way of fixing that totally one sided battle. But I see no need to make the ID vs C8V battle equally as hopeless.

[Hexx]

Then why don't we try (more permanently) changing the sides up?

Place the Hydran more in line with permanently allying with the Klinks (as an example)

What do the Klinks have?

Their carriers are across the board worse than teh Feds/Kzin/or Hydran
Their fighters are across the board worse then Fed/Kzin/Hydran until 80- and then Hey! PFs are out
Oh and their PF's are worse than Fed and Kzin,

..actually I think I typed all this out before, and I don't want it to sound like a shot at DH or Dizzy,
(Whom I still need to fix the Lyran ships, so must be nice..  )

So improve the Klink ships until they're within competitive distance of the Fed, and if there's a problem balancing Hydran ships against it
throw the Hydrans onto the Klingon permanent ally list.