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[Beeblebrox]

Never mind.  I just don't meet the minimum requirements. 

[Don Karnage]

you shoul;d have read what it was required before buying it 

and from what i heard the game is hard to play on a pc since it was made for the xbox.

[Panzergranate]

Legacy is pretty inchallenging and rapidly becomes boring on the X-BOX 360, especially in online games.

basically you dogfight other ships, most of the weapons have been reduced in nmbers to incorrect numbers on all ships in the interests of "balance" and you spnd most of the game Warping afterother players who will immediately Warp again the moment you jump in next to them.

Immagine SFC in 3D made into a shoot em up dogfight game for under 10s and you have Legacy.

It is very pretty though.

If SFC was in 3D like this it would be a hell of a lot better.

[Cptn_Pestalence_XC]

Legacy is pretty inchallenging and rapidly becomes boring on the X-BOX 360, especially in online games.

basically you dogfight other ships, most of the weapons have been reduced in nmbers to incorrect numbers on all ships in the interests of "balance" and you spnd most of the game Warping afterother players who will immediately Warp again the moment you jump in next to them.

Immagine SFC in 3D made into a shoot em up dogfight game for under 10s and you have Legacy.

It is very pretty though.

If SFC was in 3D like this it would be a hell of a lot better.

Basically you are saying Legacy is like SFC 3 on a 3D battle field

They should have modeled Legacy like SFC OP and put it on the 3D field so you actually have manual control of the z axis instead of the imitation z axis to simulate flying over the ship like in the current SFC titles. They should also keep ship speeds somewhat slow to simulate impulse speeds (all ships should have the exact same speed, just different power requirements and acceleration speeds due to hull mass)..

but that is my take on an ultimate SFC game. Currently OP is still the best Star Trek battle sim out there. It has 90 % of the remaining SFC 1 bugs removed.. It has it's own bugs, but nothing that impacts game balance that much.

[Don Karnage]

so is legacy good on any console?

[Panzergranate]

Not quite correct on Impulse as in DS9 it is put forward that starships cheat realtivity by throwing a Sub Space field around themselve, when at Impulse, to decrease the vessel's apparent mass. They Warp engines are used in a secondary capacity to do this.

Without a Sub Space field and reduced mass, Impulse maybe makes just 1/30th of light speed.

O'Brien suggests using the DS9's defelctor system to generate a crude Sub Space field to do just that in the "Emissary".

That's how the writer's managed to eliminate the E=MC squared arguments with how Impulse Power manages to push a starship to 0.99c in some instances.

It's in a 1970's Galelio shuttle technical blurb as well.

Impulse power doesn't power all ships to the same speed, as it depends on true, mass, apparent mass level achieved and maximum thruist of the Impulse Drive system installed. Not all starships can make 0.99c on Impulse Power even with a DSub Space field cheat.

No, Legacy is more like SFC 3 without any of the tactical options available.... you just keep shooting until one of you blows up.... it''s that simple.

Prepare for a nasty shock Klingon players.... the D7 has lost its 3 x bow Phasers in the interests of game balance.... shock horror!!

There are similar gun omissions on some Fed ships also.

You can't H&R, you can't T-Bomb, you can't launch shuttles, you can't launch fighters, you can't capture, you can't fire Drones, you can't overload Disrupters or any other weapons, etc.

Legacy has no tactical flexibilty for cunning players to utilise.

SFC should be more like SFC 2 EW with a Z axis and then some of the weapon's arcs would make more sense.

[Czar Mohab]

They should have modeled Legacy like SFC OP and put it on the 3D field so you actually have manual control of the z axis instead of the imitation z axis to simulate flying over the ship like in the current SFC titles. They should also keep ship speeds somewhat slow to simulate impulse speeds (all ships should have the exact same speed, just different power requirements and acceleration speeds due to hull mass)..

So, basically, you are saying they should have gone after Klingon Academy as a basis for their flight simulation parts?

I've looked at Legacy, and frankly, I didn't like what I saw. Even with all its quirks and quibbles, OP seems the superior game. Sadly, Vi$ta and KA don't like each other, but that would easily be my #2 over Legacy.

The biggest turn off for me with Legacy was the redonkulous system requirements. And there's no way I'm getting a 360 when most of the games available just aren't my style. I'll stick with my NES/SNES, thank you. Legacy does look pretty though.

Czar "At least they pretended to try" Mohab
[/color]

[Panzergranate]

I've seen a SNES in a computer museum...... geez you still have one!!

 

[Don Karnage]

They should have modeled Legacy like SFC OP and put it on the 3D field so you actually have manual control of the z axis instead of the imitation z axis to simulate flying over the ship like in the current SFC titles. They should also keep ship speeds somewhat slow to simulate impulse speeds (all ships should have the exact same speed, just different power requirements and acceleration speeds due to hull mass)..

So, basically, you are saying they should have gone after Klingon Academy as a basis for their flight simulation parts?

I've looked at Legacy, and frankly, I didn't like what I saw. Even with all its quirks and quibbles, OP seems the superior game. Sadly, Vi$ta and KA don't like each other, but that would easily be my #2 over Legacy.

The biggest turn off for me with Legacy was the redonkulous system requirements. And there's no way I'm getting a 360 when most of the games available just aren't my style. I'll stick with my NES/SNES, thank you. Legacy does look pretty though.

Czar "At least they pretended to try" Mohab
[/color]

1- I like you're avatar, barney the purple dinosaur want to hug kirk, that's funny (send him to the borg, hope the can assimilate him)

2- using the green color for texting his hard to read

3- i have see what must be promotional video of legacy and it is appealing, but if its like that to all console and on the pc the game is just very bad

[Chris Jones]

Only if you play the Stock version of Legacy. You should try the many fine mods for it - then you'll think differently..

[Panzergranate]

Unfortunately you can't mod the X-Box 360 Version.

We have Bridge Commander here, though I've never played it.... still haven't grown bored of SFC 1 yet!!

My son plays BC a lot.

BC does have that one thing missing from SFC..... the ability to add in new weapons as attributes. Apart form this, SFC is better for tactical and cunning play.

Why oh why couldn't Taldren have made the weapon attributes list from an editable file as with ship specs?? It would then have made it possible to enter in the newer weapons tables form SFB like Proton Beams, etc.

You'd just add a new line and put in the name of the weapon, how it would appear in a box on the UI and the tables for the various ranges, overloads, etc.

It was the obvious system to use so why on Earth didn't they do it that way?? Did they let the junior software geek do the work, and then find out that the idiot had done the whole thing as a subroutine with built in values and tables??

Some of how SFC 1 and SFC 2 is set up makes no sense.

[Don Karnage]

they where not expecting the game to be so famous, when the made op they should but that show that they do not care.

[Cptn_Pestalence_XC]

Not true..

The game was made to be 1 thing. Starfleet Battles brought to PC.

There are a mirad of weapons to make the ships extremely poweful..

Take Strayy's server config

You have Fed, Hydran Rom, Cardassian, Borg, TNG ships, and a lot of other things.. lots of models, ships that have massive power

Take Kirks Enterprise the TMP NCC-1701 .. in Strayy's Tavern, you have it with 159 power, 6 Heavy Photons (the one's that do 16 damage normal, 32 overload) X Phasers, 2 PH 4's, Phaser g's, 8 D rack missles, etc..

you need the firepower when fighting the Borg Cube, and even then you need the help of other ships that are even more poweful. This is what making a Mod is all about.. and it makes the playing field even since everyone can choose the same ship you have if they want... no one person can become Uber..

Now it is true that you can't just "swap weapons" in the SFC series.. but really look at the "reality" of that option..

You go into space dock and ask them to pull your Photons and put in Plasma.. Do you know how many weeks you ship will be down?

You need to think this way..

A ship is built, you check the specs, you fly the ship.. You are limited to the ships configuration Yes.. but your galaxy is at war.. do you really have the time to have your ship down for 4 months getting a refit when your colony planets are falling to Romulan hands?

SFC keep the "realistic" premise in mind.. The SFC campaign is designed for running in a structured campaign mainly in a Psuedo RPG style.

It is based off Starfleet Battles RPG.. which took 1 to 4 days to play out a battle on paper.. it can now be done in about 2 to 5 min with player vs AI.. sometimes a battle can last hours with skilled pilots..

My longest battle which I eventually won took about 4 hours and it took almost every trick in the book to pull the win... even faking injured.

Weapons do not make a good captain.. it makes fine cheese

Skill, tactics, finesse.. knowing when and when not to do things and how to entice your enemy to waste his shots and power, that is what SFC is all about.. not Uber weapons..

OK.. to check out your players personal skill.. run SFC in stock mode...

Take a F-FF and go against any dreadnought that is being controlled by AI..

when you can beat the Dreadnought with an FF, then you are ready to play on the Dynaverse or GSA with the seasoned pilots.. Almost anyone who plays on the dynaverse currently can do that, myself included..

Weapons do not make a good ship or captain.. it makes cheese.. Skill and tactics makes a good ship and captain..

You have to learn to fly your ships the correct way.. each ship in SFC has it's own learning curve, different power requirements, different weapons, different accelerations, different power requirements.. that is what makes the game so great..

If I could just plug and play weapons like in SFC 3.. then the game becomes instant cheddar because you don't have to learn a ship... the ship is built for you..

How realistic is that? Not very.. but youngsters don't think about the realistic aspect of the game.. Join the Military.. ask your commander to build you a F-16 with "custom weapons".. Yeah right .. good luck..

You are going to have to learn to use the aircraft the way it was designed.. just like SFC, SFC II EAW, and SFC II OP...

Great pilots are not made from cheese.. they are made from developing good tactics and strategies to overcome and defeat their opponent regardless of the odds...


Anyhow, that is why SFC is designed the way it is.. to kill the Cheese factor of the game.

[Don Karnage]

to beat a dreadnought with a ff, that i would like to see 

depending of the race, i know that sometime agains the klingon they don't fire so its easy to d, but a ff is underpower or the ship is so beatup that a ff can go for the kill. 

[Cptn_Pestalence_XC]

In a FF.. you don't run full weapons.

You turn off 1 torp.. and move the phaser slider down 1/3 of the scale (that way you have 2/3 charge).. you set you power priorities and keep distance.. allow for long distance proxie shots and aim for same shield each time.. keep ECM at 1 so as to shift damage from the enemy.. keep speed at 21 or more.. make the Dread waste all it's power on movement (the FF only uses .32 power to move.. a Dread uses 1.5 to 1.75 power to move) so getting a Dread moving at speed 24 would take 1.5*24= 36 power most Dreads only have 55 to 60 power, so over half of it's power is used in movement...

Using ECM and staying outside range 15 using proxies  and focusing on 1 shield.. you make the Dread waste firepower .. their torps will miss with a Defensive shift of 1 about 70% of the time.. while you will hit 80% of the time.. plasma torps you can easily outrun.

Using Eratic Manuvers will help a great deal when moving in for a shot (instant shift of 2 plus your ECM rating) and turning it off just before your strike.. or if you are timing the enemy's shots, fire then engage EM while moving away to protect your back door.

Don't slug match a dread.. movement is key, distance is key, making the enemy waste energy by making it miss is key.. look at power requirements.. say you are against a Gorn Dread.. 2 plas R's, 2 Plas S's, a mirad of phasers.. If you can keep it moving at speed 24, it can only have enough power to charge phasers and 2 G torp plasma at a time or maybe 1 R torp.. keeping your ECM at a defensive shift of 1, the Dread's phasers are negligible at range 18 to 20 and you moving at speed 21 constantly, you can easily accelerate to speed 31 and go into a sharp bank and drag out a Plas R to where it hits for 0 to 1 damage or is dissipates all together... Even if the plas hists, it will hit through your ECM shift if you have Erratic Maneuvers turned on.. thus reducing damage,, plus phasers will reduce plasma power also..

like I stated.. It is how you use your ship, not the weapons that wins a battle.. taking out a Dread with an FF is not an easy battle but you can do it.. it takes a long time and a lot of patience.. you have to wear your enemy down and make it waste energy.. when a Dread is moving slow, it is the most dangerous.. the faster they move, the less power, the weaker the shields, the less weapons it can charge.. and so forth... but it also depends on how you manage your ship.. People like going in with all weapons OL'd and set on full charge..

Most ships in SFC can do that at speed 15.. that is fine.. but try to speed up when a R plas is coming at you at speed 36 when you are fully loaded on OL and trying to get to speed 31.. it won't happen..

But if you have 1 torp turned off, the other set for Proxie.. keeping speed 21 and turning Phaser slider down to the P in Capacitor, then you will have energy to charge all online weapons and keep your ECM at 1 with just a hint of shield reinforcement.

managing your shield reinforcement is important as well.. never reinforce all shields inless you are in close combat.. using distance runs, just reinforce the shield facing your enemy (this gives the maximum shield reinforcement protection vs having your power spread through 6 shields).. this wy when the enemy ship does hit through the shift variance, they will only damage drain the reinforcement from the shields and not actually damage the shield itself... once the engine recovers the reinforcement.. it is rinse and repeat...

Time your shots for After teh enemy fires.. they can't fire a recharging weapon.. this gives you time to shoot and move away since your power will default to weapon recharge and take away from ECM and Shields.. you keep yourself protected between your enemies shots...

Like I stated, it is not impossible.. it is difficult yes, but patients and tactics and staying calm and timing things correctly is all key.. People wanting a quick and fast battle are not interested in tactics.. they are interested in cheese...

People moving in for a quick kill are the ones who will usually lose in a PVP battle since they know nothing on how to manage their ship correctly....

On the D2, I have used a Battle Tug and beat a Romulan X ship without moving faster than 18 speed (battle Tug max speed).. all because of tactics.. I was severely messed up and only has about 15% hull left at end of battle, but the Rom blew up, not me..

The reason I won was because the Rom player wanted a quick kill and moved in close to get maximum damage from the plasma, instead of keeping range and letting plasma wear me down...

I OL'd my weapons and turned my attention to ECM / ECCM .. I kept a full supply of WW's in my bay and 1 Suicide shuttle.. he would come in to range 6 and fire and turn off , bring him to a min range of 3.5 K to me.. I ww, then HET to the Rom and fire OL's into his rear shield at range 5.8, then pick his internals off with phasers at ranges 8 to 14.. eventually, his engines were down to where he was moving speed 14 and charging plasma.. all this did was make my Photons more accurate and Phasers more deadly due to closer range.. then I was the one chasing him with and he had a down rear shield.. I could stay range 7 all day long and just whittle him away with normal torps..

It is not weapons that win a match because he clearly had me out gunned with the X Plas and PH X's.. but his lack of knowledge of how to use those weapons effectively and how to manage his ship and which tactics to use against the enemy, he lost.. On his first pass, I WW his plasma.. he unloaded 2 of his 4 torps, I HET'd and hit him with 4 OL's Photons through the rear shield, followed up by an attack probe and then 6 PH 1's through the downed shield.. on his first pass, I lost 40% of my front shield but the shield held, the WW took the Plasmas, and I busted his rear shield, took away approx 15 to 20 power from his ship, internals and H&R teams took out 3 of his plasma and 2 of his PH X's ..

This is just his first pass..

He was sloppy with his ship relying on his weapons instead of tactics... As I stated Tactics wins the battles, not weapons..

we slugged it out for a while until he was crippled..

I finished him as he did a desperation move to come in with his last plasma.. I had 1 Suicide shuttle on board and his shields were gone.. he was moving speed 9 and I was crippled and moving speed 5.. I had 2 torps and 3 phasers left and 1 SS shuttle.. I launched the suicide as he passed over me.. I ate his plasma, but he blew up running into the suicide shuttle..

I had to spend almost 1855 PP in repairs to my ship plus reload my ship in the space dock.. but a little Battle Tug, which is usually cannon fodder took out the Rom X heavy Cruiser..

the other player used no tactics and was over confident.. 2 things that will kill you every time...

beating a Dread AI is tough but not hard.. you just have to develop your tactics accordingly..

[Don Karnage]

well what is the weapons on you're ff and what race you play and attack and what weapons the Dn have, if it fire drone it might not be possible to out run if the speed is 32.

is it possible to view with the movie (recorded battle) from someone else in the game?

[Panzergranate]

It would depen on a map as well. as asteroid belts with dust clouds are just so usefull for loosing chasing Drones in and the frigate would be able to take advantage of its smaller size, greater maneuverability and acceleration.

It would only take a collision with and asteroid to put the DN in a vulnerable position, and this would be seized upon by the frigate.

I've watched players fly into asteroids in LAN games because they were too focused on a target in the aft 180 Degrees field of view and were following someone else's ship. What had usually happened was that the allied ship they were following had been destroyed, they hadn't realised and had flown straight into an asteroid.

It pays to look around from time to time and never make assumptions that things are as they seem in a game.

I've also managed to tractor push a CA into an asteroid with a frigate, which took some timing as I needed to alter the CA's course slightly as it passed between my frigate and close by the asteroid. Normally I use the tactic on fighters and PFs but thongs just happened to be just right for the move.

My teenage son managed to push a frigate off teh edge of a map with a large Q-ship in a one on one match, as I'd picked off all his weapons with H&R and I was starting to board him. He locked on a tractor, threw all his remaining power into propulsion and just pushed me off of the map. I couldn't break free and he had managed to raise a shiled to stop me H&Ring the tractor. Pounding the shio with weapons didn't stop him either, though I was taking chunls out of him. Q-ships can soak up a lot of punishment with all those cargo and hull boxes.

[Czar Mohab]

How realistic is that? Not very.. but youngsters don't think about the realistic aspect of the game.. Join the Military.. ask your commander to build you a F-16 with "custom weapons".. Yeah right .. good luck..

I humbly direct you to my experience with customizing weapons on a ship. Sure its a wiki, but its close enough. There's actually 2 conversions of the 726 class, the C4 -> D5; and SSBN -> SSGN. Both take existing hull, parts, etc, and change the weapons. More extensive, however, is the SSGN conversion.  Anyone who is even remotely interested in Naval combat is sure to have a happy feeling inside ( or that "special place") knowing that these 4 vessels have changed from "end of the world" weapons to a mission of "Warheads on foreheads". And that doesn't count the frog men. Or the other super secret squirrel stuff.


You're right, normally its infeasible, and takes for f*cking ever; however, it can be (turn volume down before clicking) done.

What makes me angry is how I can't seem to find the stats that we were told during the actual conversion. I've seen the websites before, they do exist; its just that the two "Good" ones I've found aren't so good. I'll try to get back to you on that.


BTW, FF v. AI DN: Only sucks if you miss calculate something (weapon recycle, # of shuttles, etc., but like Pesty says, and I myself have proved, it can be done. Have screenies, I think, have to look.

Czar "Best ship in the fleet, Ol' 727" Mohab[/color]

[KBF-Crim]

This November 18th will be my tenth anniversery of playing SFC exclusively..No other game has come close...

There are other games that look better.....play easier....etc...

But the complexity is what kept me with SFC...

When I got SFC 1...it litterally took me more than a week to even figure how to kill a ship...the frustration was almost too much ....

Then I found the interplay boards and got some tips.....made things click...

Legacy looks beautiful for sure...but it lacks the guts of even SFC1.....a ten year old game...