Post by: DarkElf on February 03, 2003, 03:35:55 pm
What do you think guys?
Post by: 3dot14 on February 03, 2003, 04:57:04 pm
If it fixes the problem, sure.
But just wondering. are there are down sides? (there usually are...)
Post by: DarkElf on February 03, 2003, 06:53:56 pm
Post by: Cleaven on February 04, 2003, 12:58:25 am
Post by: C-Los on February 04, 2003, 06:58:25 am
Post by: Capt Jeff on February 04, 2003, 07:08:14 am
Settings need to be double checked in the server gf files to make sure that Orions are set to be enemies with everyone, AND that they do not become friendly with anyone after X amount of missions....
Post by: NuclearWessels on February 04, 2003, 08:12:46 am
Quote:
Capt Jeff and I did co-op base asaults in neutral hex, def did go down but only with Base Missions all others had no effect!!
Is this true? I had been under the impression that all the missions suffered from the neutral-space coop problem. But, if the base assaults handled it ok then I can go in and see how I was reporting results differently there than in the other missions --- we might actually be able to solve this.
dave
Post by: EmeraldEdge on February 04, 2003, 08:21:23 am
Post by: FatherTed on February 04, 2003, 09:17:22 am
BTW: Dark Elf, could you check the shipyard settings? Deadmansix was telling me that a lot of the Hydran line ships that should be out by now aren't turning up in the yards, and it appears that nobody is getting bases.
Post by: TOCXOBearslayer on February 04, 2003, 11:40:43 am
Post by: FatherTed on February 04, 2003, 11:50:06 am
Quote:
Interesting, when I was on last night, at one point there was only 2 base stations (BSF's IIRC) in the Hydran shipyards.... after a few turns, I came back to see what was up and there was a faily normal, though lacking modernization, ship list.
Interesting. Hopefully it was just that I wasn't going to resupply when bases were in the yards. Because it's an awful long trip to resupply in homespace.
Post by: Cleaven on February 04, 2003, 03:51:23 pm
Post by: NuclearWessels on February 07, 2003, 09:10:27 am
Quote:
Yeah, coops on base assaults do affect dv it would appear.
...
Thanks! We may be onto something.
After the destruction/capture/disengagement of a ship many of the missions deliberately include a delay of several seconds before checking to see if the mission should now end. The base assaults, on the other hand, carry out the check immediately. I wonder if in the coop missions some other event is interfering in that several second pause, and screwing up the results reporting.
I'll recompile a few of the enemy space missions with the delay removed, and see if we can fire a server up in the next couple of days to test the results. 'Twould be nice indeed if we could eliminate this problem!
dave
Post by: C-Los on February 07, 2003, 09:32:55 am
Also did it with 3 of us myself, Bearslayer and another Fed.....and Def went down with each base mission.
Post by: NuclearWessels on February 07, 2003, 01:01:38 pm
After digging through the reporting code some more, I believe that in some of the scripts (especially the patrol-style scripts) certain teams will not report certain mission results. This isn't important when there's only one player in the mission, but would (I think) cause our co-op problems.
If this is correct, then I'm pretty sure there's actually an easy fix. <crosses fingers>
Darkelf - if I get some revised versions ready tomorrow is there any chance we can throw them on a test server?
dave
Post by: DarkElf on February 07, 2003, 01:12:07 pm
Post by: NuclearWessels on February 07, 2003, 08:52:42 pm
They're now in the full mission pack: http://www3.telus.net/NuclearWessels/sfc/downloads/EAWMissions.zip
the key scripts that changed are Met_NW10Patrol, Met_NW6Patrol, Met_NW17Patrol, Met_NW14Enigma, Met_NW19Scan, Met_NW11ConvoyRaid, Met_NW13Monster, and Met_NW12ConvoyEscort
If you want to, just whack in the 6/10/17 Patrol variants and that should be enough to see if it did any good.
If those work out then you can pick anything you like out of the rest
<crosses fingers and makes pizza offering to the D2 gods>
man I hope this works!
dave
Post by: Corbomite on February 07, 2003, 09:32:42 pm
Post by: NuclearWessels on February 10, 2003, 03:51:56 pm
<sound of gnashing teeth>
Well, so far attempts to mod the stock Taldren patrols to handle neutral coop properly have been, ummmm, less than outrageously successful. The next level of attempted fix would amount to a rewrite of a substantial chunk of someone else's code, and I'm not feeling up to that at the moment (eyes bottle of Crown Royal and stack of Cadbury Eggs and wonders if that would do the trick).
I know we've been through this before, but the three options I see are
(1) keep neutral space to a minimum, or
(2) just live with the neutral space coop bug, or
(3) go with mostly custom missions in neutral (which also means enemy) space
EDIT: speaking in general here, not about the current server specifically
Yuck!
dave
Post by: Mog on February 10, 2003, 04:00:59 pm
Post by: NuclearWessels on February 10, 2003, 05:08:00 pm
dave
Post by: Cleaven on February 10, 2003, 11:58:57 pm
Testing ASAP please?
Post by: NuclearWessels on February 11, 2003, 08:08:45 am
Given that the base assault script works fine for coop in neutral, all we really need to do is make a version of base assault without the base. That's easily done, and it's easy to get it to appear in other hexes. Doh!
If we want to maintain some mission variety then we could do is create a couple of variants based on the assaults script and give them identifiable names. Then in neutral space folks can run any mission if they're flying solo, but they can pick the appropriate missions if they want to fly coop.
dave
Post by: Skawpya on February 11, 2003, 08:50:07 am
Post by: NuclearWessels on February 11, 2003, 11:50:42 am
There are neutral ships but there isn't really a neutral race.
Neutral space is treated by the game engine as unowned by anyone,
rather than as territory owned by the neutrals.
As such, when it generates opponents for missions in neutral territory
it picks your nearest enemy (by closest base IIRC) rather than generating
neutral ships to fight.
Meanwhile, the missions tend to view neutral space as falling into either
the "friendly" or "hostile" categories based on server settings, and never
truly regard the space as neutral. As far as I know, no one has yet managed
to come up with a set of missions that get offered ONLY in neutral space.
Either they also get offered in allied territory or they also get offered
in enemy territory.
dave
Post by: Cleaven on February 11, 2003, 03:42:02 pm
Post by: NuclearWessels on February 11, 2003, 04:29:22 pm
I think we're pretty safe in thinking it's actually returning the results correctly.
Not 100% sure of course, but reasonably. Call it 98
dave