About 3700 missions more generally does the trick. All AI missions I would assume by definition. More mouse clicking wins the day. How exciting!!
Lifetime PP Alliance is 4,219,377
Lifetime PP Coalition is 5,726,959
Alliance missions flown: 10,910
Coalition missions flown: 14,666
Total Players Alliance: 104
Total Players Coalition: 96
Sorry it took so long to get this posted. DarkElf has been hard to track down.
About 3700 missions more generally does the trick. All AI missions I would assume by definition. More mouse clicking wins the day. How exciting!!
Lifetime PP Alliance is 4,219,377
Lifetime PP Coalition is 5,726,959
Alliance missions flown: 10,910
Coalition missions flown: 14,666
Total Players Alliance: 104
Total Players Coalition: 96
Sorry it took so long to get this posted. DarkElf has been hard to track down.
. . . we didn't get the D5D until the server was approx half over.
And I would say the majority of the Coalition players in general weren't flying droners anyway.
I wonder if this is taking into account the fact that at least half the Coalition players had both Klingon and Lyran accounts.
About 3700 missions more generally does the trick. All AI missions I would assume by definition. More mouse clicking wins the day. How exciting!!
Depends where the extra missions were run, not just the fact of extra missions, 3k missions in the top left corner would mean nothing. Coalition ran there missions in Alliance space and not vice versa, has more to do with winning than raw numbers.
. . . we didn't get the D5D until the server was approx half over.
Do I have to give you a lesson in Klingon FYAs? Please know what you are talking about when posting stuff like that. :rofl:
The D5D was available in 2270 which was the second day of the server.And I would say the majority of the Coalition players in general weren't flying droners anyway.
:lol:
EDIT: Just pulling your chain Krueg, you I respect greatly, just need to correct some factual errors in your post.
About 3700 missions more generally does the trick. All AI missions I would assume by definition. More mouse clicking wins the day. How exciting!!
Depends where the extra missions were run, not just the fact of extra missions, 3k missions in the top left corner would mean nothing. Coalition ran there missions in Alliance space and not vice versa, has more to do with winning than raw numbers.
Very true, but these post-mortems will point out the the winning side of a campaign has never run fewer missions than the losing side.
To clarify my remarks, no indictment of any side intended, but when it comes down to it, it is just who runs more missions that wins and since those extra missions are all vs the AI by definition and since almost all AI missions are a fair d'accompli, more mouse clicking wins the day. Pretty silly all around no matter what side wins. Might as well just pick two people to enter a pen clicking race and see who gives up first.
There's got to be a better way than this to run a "competitive" campaign.
Very true, but these post-mortems will point out the the winning side of a campaign has never run fewer missions than the losing side.
To clarify my remarks, no indictment of any side intended, but when it comes down to it, it is just who runs more missions that wins and since those extra missions are all vs the AI by definition and since almost all AI missions are a fair d'accompli, more mouse clicking wins the day. Pretty silly all around no matter what side wins. Might as well just pick two people to enter a pen clicking race and see who gives up first.
There's got to be a better way than this to run a "competitive" campaign.
. . . we didn't get the D5D until the server was approx half over.
Do I have to give you a lesson in Klingon FYAs? Please know what you are talking about when posting stuff like that. :rofl:
The D5D was available in 2270 which was the second day of the server.And I would say the majority of the Coalition players in general weren't flying droners anyway.
:lol:
EDIT: Just pulling your chain Krueg, you I respect greatly, just need to correct some factual errors in your post.
Was it? I didn't realize it came out so early. Excuse me if I was incorrect. Flew one for one day, on a day when there were hardly any Alliance on to challenge. The only other droner I few was the DWD, again only on a couple short occasions. I don't spend hours looking over such details in the shiplist such as "when do we get XXship?" I usually simply make due with what we have. Therefore, obviously I'm not as knowledgeable in the FYA on the ships as some.
Thanks for noticing my error DH.
To clarify my remarks, no indictment of any side intended, but when it comes down to it, it is just who runs more missions that wins and since those extra missions are all vs the AI by definition and since almost all AI missions are a fair d'accompli, more mouse clicking wins the day. Pretty silly all around no matter what side wins. Might as well just pick two people to enter a pen clicking race and see who gives up first.
There's got to be a better way than this to run a "competitive" campaign.
You realise we're talking a difference of only 11 missions per hour....or aprox one extra mission every six minutes...
I often wonder....what is your point?
If you hate it so much...why play at all? :-\
There is no strategy. No offense to the lead planners for either side, but more missions is more missions. If 3700 missions are deployed on the map in any sensible way, that side wins. People aren't going to run missions that don't support VCs as VC conditions are usually sensible and transparent. Capture bases, capture planets. People want to do this anyway as it extends supply lines and adds supply nodes as well as making simple sense.
It would be one thing if mission numbers and/or server number were more equal, then I could see making a strategic claim, but 3700 is alot of missions. I mean, by definition the side that takes more hexes has to have run more missions. That is a given. As far as I can tell, this is way more missions than would be needed to take the territory that was taken on this server, so what strategy can be pointed to?
. . . we didn't get the D5D until the server was approx half over.
Do I have to give you a lesson in Klingon FYAs? Please know what you are talking about when posting stuff like that. :rofl:
The D5D was available in 2270 which was the second day of the server.And I would say the majority of the Coalition players in general weren't flying droners anyway.
:lol:
EDIT: Just pulling your chain Krueg, you I respect greatly, just need to correct some factual errors in your post.
To clarify my remarks, no indictment of any side intended, but when it comes down to it, it is just who runs more missions that wins and since those extra missions are all vs the AI by definition and since almost all AI missions are a fair d'accompli, more mouse clicking wins the day. Pretty silly all around no matter what side wins. Might as well just pick two people to enter a pen clicking race and see who gives up first.
There's got to be a better way than this to run a "competitive" campaign.
You realise we're talking a difference of only 11 missions per hour....or aprox one extra mission every six minutes...
I often wonder....what is your point?
If you hate it so much...why play at all? :-\
Very true, but these post-mortems will point out the the winning side of a campaign has never run fewer missions than the losing side.
I think there are at least 2 cases when this didn't hold true. Storm Seasons I and II just going from memory here, so if you have data that shows otherwise please share.
However, in both those cases the percentage differential was not so great.
Additionally, strategy is being able to dictate where the fighting occurs by intelligent use of assets available. Sometimes this is through hex flipping, sometimes its by use of major fleet assests and the heavy iron, sometimes its by diversions, sometimes deepstrikes.
Planning has 3 major aspects.
1 Organization
2 Timing
3 Resources
If all are used in conjunction, the impact can be greater than a larger force using pure hex flipping.
Lepton,
May I remind you that the Alliance managed the LOS to the Federation? How many missions was required to do this 1-time needed objective compared to the total # of missions run on the server?
1 win or loss in p v p this mission would be productive for the winning side only and although the losing side ran a mission as well, they reaped no benefit from it.
2 a mission run by a solo player or one with a wing will yield the same DV result. So although 3 players running solos will show up the same on the statistics as 3 running together, the result of the 3 solos will be greater.
3 mission types may influence the figures. A planet assault takes longer than a patrol but if a planet can be taken without an encirclement the missions run will be less.
4 many missions might be used to make a defense, this will make the enemy choose to fly elsewhere. It achieves its objective yet fewer missions run at a different target while ignoring the heavily defended one making the fewer missions more effective.
Wrong again Lepton. Strategy, timing and using of resourses is critical to any campaign. Not missions run. Coalition won SS2 and had fewer missions. Mirak/Hydran won IDSL in the final minutes before the campaign ended with 7 players vs 10 coaltion players. Both strategy and timing and command of the game won these, not flipping hexes.
See some of us really enjoy the game for that aspect of it. Playing as a team for a common goal and trying to out flank you opponent is what I love about this game. I guess you don t get in on some of the planning and "operations" that have been done over the last 2 years. Maybe you should try. I think you would enjoy the game more.
Since the disengagement rule has come about, now PvP, hexflipping, and strategic planning are all important parts of the game. I enjoy them all. Maybe you should hang out on Ventrillo or TS with the guys and gals and learn to enjoy the commaradire and actual gamesmanship that happens during these dynas. Then maybe you would enjoy it more.
Do I have an issue with hexflipping? Yes. Do I think it is boring? Yes.
About 3700 missions more generally does the trick. All AI missions I would assume by definition. More mouse clicking wins the day. How exciting!!
Depends where the extra missions were run, not just the fact of extra missions, 3k missions in the top left corner would mean nothing. Coalition ran there missions in Alliance space and not vice versa, has more to do with winning than raw numbers.
Very true, but these post-mortems will point out the the winning side of a campaign has never run fewer missions than the losing side.
So in conclusion its not numbers or missions run, its strategy and Morale that wins a decent Dyna.
So in conclusion its not numbers or missions run, its strategy and Morale that wins a decent Dyna.
To an extent, yes. But how could you possibly win when out-missioned by 35%?
10-15% difference maybe. Strategy abosulutely makes a huge difference when the number of total misisons is close.
When the numbers are "close," I absolutely agree with you.
So in conclusion its not numbers or missions run, its strategy and Morale that wins a decent Dyna.
To an extent, yes. But how could you possibly win when out-missioned by 35%?
10-15% difference maybe. Strategy absolutely makes a huge difference when the number of total missions is close.
When the numbers are "close," I absolutely agree with you.
EDIT: Just noticed in your post you keep referencing "player numbers." This stat is irrelevant, always has been. Total missions flown is the stat you should be focussing on.
1 Fluf = 10 normal pilots.
All I am saying is 100 well chosen missions are better than 1,000 Ill chosen ones, and the proof is in the history.
Gook,
While I appreciate the history lesson, none of what you say addresses my point. . . . . .
Gook,
While I appreciate the history lesson, none of what you say addresses my point. The point is given a large mission number gap no strategy is necessary. You seem to cite the Kzins being outnumbered as some evidence of how less missions could equal victory or something to that effect. That is a false analogy, but it may not be what you are intending to say. I never said strategy can't play a role in the D2, but I do think it (strategy) is most easily defeated by running more missions than your opponent, and one would have to almost by definition unless there were a set of victory conditions or a server setup that would allow the converse. So I would say that whenever there is a substantial gap, strategy doesn't matter. I'd really like to see mission totals for all these other servers. It would be interesting to see those stats and how they compare to one another.
And don't get me started on morale which is merely a twisted way of saying who is willing to plug away endlessly on the AI for hours on end. I mean, I have seen some D2 burnouts in my time here, and people just relentlessly on servers and I ask myself, "For what?? For what??". Do we really enjoy smacking around the AI that much?? In my mind, this is what wins servers. A dedicated group of people who want nothing more than to mouse click.
A harsh assessment, I agree, but I think the D2 system is severely flawed when people can become discouraged from playing based upon a system that often rewards being online as much as possible and/or having as much of a numbers disadvantage as possible either over the life of the server or at particular times of the day.
Gook,
While I appreciate the history lesson, none of what you say addresses my point. . . . . .
He's a lawyer, his carreer is all about talking a lot without actually addressing the issue :rofl:
Further, I have absolutely no idea of server set-ups for this history lesson. I would assume this great Kzin history you speak of was also the trigger for the entire mission times, CnC, OoB, yada-yada-yada, essentially everything that has come on after to balance out hex-flipping nonsense, as it seems the most attention I have seen on these issues has been focused on drone races and the Kzin in particular. So I take that as further evidence of the mouse-clicking hypothesis.
Further, I have absolutely no idea of server set-ups for this history lesson. I would assume this great Kzin history you speak of was also the trigger for the entire mission times, CnC, OoB, yada-yada-yada, essentially everything that has come on after to balance out hex-flipping nonsense, as it seems the most attention I have seen on these issues has been focused on drone races and the Kzin in particular. So I take that as further evidence of the mouse-clicking hypothesis.
THIS IS THE SONG THAT NEVER ENDS ,IT JUST GOES ON AND ON MY FRIENDS :spam:
LMAO Corbo!
Good to see ya made it.