Dynaverse.net
Taldrenites => Starfleet Command Models => Topic started by: candle_86 on October 10, 2009, 10:37:00 pm
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at the request of others and there general asking I have made just a thread and only a single thread to post my work, ive started redoing the tiber just because
thats the new engy hull how much better does it look?
I decided instead of having to hand shape it the hard way, an elgated cylinder, a sphere and a sphere where i moved the sides to make way for a rounded back and of course flatended it out ect made for a nicer thing with boolean cut
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Much better form than your last bunch of models. I would still be careful of your polycount - making a model with no more than 15k triangles is a good start.
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here are some renders
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You might want to thicken up those nacelle struts and widen the distance between the nacelles.
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is it an improvement over tiber v1?
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Much better form than your last bunch of models.
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built this also, I had to use those nacelles i built
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built this also, I had to use those nacelles i built
Nice.. beginning of a TOS era Constellation?
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yea ive got some work to do on it still namley get rid of some polies its 15k cause i made the nacelles to round lol prolly gotta weld vertices together and try to get it down to a reasonable level atleast also need to make a TOS style torp launcher and make my shuttle bay doors
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your models get better with each one i see. good job.
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Keep at it your getting better with each ship your producing
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These are really looking nice! On the latest one with four nacelles, have you thought about having the nacelle ends face outward instead of inward?
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there is still alot i dont grasp, i wish i had started back in 99 with everyone else, im 10 years late to the game lol
rebuilt the nacelees, changing the naceels out dropped it from 17k poly to 7k
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here she is rendered in mod viewer, gonna texture next yay lol
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what i call a major hull update call it what you want lol, i dont want to add anything else, its doing about 94FPS on the mod viewer
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Just a suggestion.. have you considered small dual deflectors on the front of the saucer? I took a look at the TNG era Constellation and noticed a dual impulse assembly at the back of a superstructure, and I think they use a built-in deflector on the TNG version. These small dishes have been seen in the past (I remember them on a Galactic Survey Cruiser). :)
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i considered it, but decided i didnt want the dual impulse engines honestly, to TMP for a tos ship lol. As for dual deflectors some like it, I hate it, i dont use any ship with dual deflectors i just hate the look personally
i started some texture work tell me what ya think so far
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im off to bed but leave you with this
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im off to bed but leave you with this
Maybe decrease the size of the lit part a bit..
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some more textures
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nice model candle. you get the feling for proportions. however you use wwwaaaayyyyyy too much polygons for an ingame model. most times less polies will do the job and for small details you can use textures. keeping the polycount low it is much easier to modify the mesh.
but what do i know...i use wwwaaaaayyyyyy to few polygons on most of my models.
if you keep the basic mehs low on poygons you can do more details on the mesh as well. rims and baydoors and phaserturrets and things like that.
ed:)
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however you use wwwaaaayyyyyy too much polygons for an ingame model.
I've seen this mentioned at least four times in your various threads. I am curious as to hard data. How many triangles is this ship, exactly?
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11825 triangles, i hate them to look unsmooth, but how many SFC users are still playing on low end hardware?
I don't force anyone to use it, and im sorry if its not 5k polies like some others are, but this models are also going to BC as well as SFC so mesh smoothness also matters to me because it wont be seen from just distance
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With the uninterrupted features of this design, could make this model within 7k or 8k triangles. For saucers I try not to go above 48 segments along the circumfrance. Nacelles are 24 or 32 at the most.
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saucer is 60 segments, nacceles each are 40 but there is bevel work and half a 40 segment sphere on it. Now I will optimize it later, using Gmax's tool which i find i like on certain surfaces, like the buzzards ect, it cleans up alot of extra polies without me having to redraw the whole thing. But I dont do that till i get there on the mesh the struts are last along with the nacelles they will get optimized tonight
each nacelle is 800 polies by itself, not including other geometry, i wish it didnt triangle to render but we went with triangles not quadratics for 3d gaming
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Optimizing is one way to do it, but to be honest, I think it is disadvantageous. Building the model from the ground up to be light on the polies but still keeping the lines intact (instead of the omlet that optimize creates) is much more desirable.
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well the tiber has optimize on it also, i use it to get ride of the tons of extra polies at the front of spheres mainly or in thin cylinder segments, that got shrunk from a big one. Take my sensor dish the little bar that goes into the dish then the one from the dish to the little ball is still 60 segments, but I could lower that drasticlly with optimize without loosing shape and withotu the pain in the ass that is weld lol
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I agree that welding is a pain in the ass, but an even better thing to do is build the model with efficiency in mind from the ground up. I don't know how far advanced GMax's tools are, but if they are worth a damn, you should be able to remove or add entire loops instead of welding each vertex.
i should make a video tutorial about a ship from start to finish...
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something diffrent someone asked for a tank on another fourm for CnC generals so i made one lol
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e44/candle_86/tank.jpg)
also its only 354 triangles lol
though its static i told him i dunno how to make the barrel rotate lol
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its a good start there, which c&c forum are you a member of?
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command and patch lol
also a classic from staryards dated of course so im giving it the face lift it deserves, see if you recogize it yet
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I'm guessing its the Discovery, but you need to add a smooth, rounder, curve to the front of the secondary hull.
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i intend to im getting the basic shape done first, but it did need a face lift dont ya think lol
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discovery is on the back burner though the constellation is still progressing I whipped this up though what do ya think. I havnt came up with a class name lol though with the nacelles im saying early 23rd century
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still using too many polies mate, ur getting better though.. try to make a low poly but modern shuttle, i.e make a low poly type 15 shuttle, then try to make it less and less. helps ;)
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that one is only 13k triangles
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For the level of detail that you are working with thats way too much
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that one is only 13k triangles
the cylinder for the nacelle should be between 18 and 24 iterations, it looks like you got 64 on the naccels and the hull. The saucer on the other hand needs more iterations, looks like your at 24 to 32 at most(of coruse it could be the smoothing throwing me off on the saucer), should be somewhere around 48 iterations (welding on the way in from the rim to reduce polies of course). Just did quick count, looks like you have 48 iteration rim on the saucer, your smoothin groups are making it look funky though. I personally go higher for the saucer rim then do alot of welding to reduce polies (ie 64 iteration rim, but the rest of the saucer is closer to 32 iterations)
And i would agree, 6.5 k polies is a bit much for the LoD your working with. My suggestion would be to back away from the mindset that more polies is better, and work on a minimlistic one instead. Once you've got the basics down (ie understand what the min you need for it to look good) then work up and add detail. It tends to be easier to add detail rather than trying to remove it.
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I'm detecting a pattern.....
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that one is only 13k triangles
the cylinder for the nacelle should be between 18 and 24 iterations, it looks like you got 64 on the naccels and the hull. The saucer on the other hand needs more iterations, looks like your at 24 to 32 at most(of coruse it could be the smoothing throwing me off on the saucer), should be somewhere around 48 iterations (welding on the way in from the rim to reduce polies of course). Just did quick count, looks like you have 48 iteration rim on the saucer, your smoothin groups are making it look funky though. I personally go higher for the saucer rim then do alot of welding to reduce polies (ie 64 iteration rim, but the rest of the saucer is closer to 32 iterations)
And i would agree, 6.5 k polies is a bit much for the LoD your working with. My suggestion would be to back away from the mindset that more polies is better, and work on a minimlistic one instead. Once you've got the basics down (ie understand what the min you need for it to look good) then work up and add detail. It tends to be easier to add detail rather than trying to remove it.
48 polies can work, actually - my kelvin-esque ships use 48 edges around the circumference of the saucer.
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48 polies can work, actually - my kelvin-esque ships use 48 edges around the circumference of the saucer.
O yeah, you can use 48 - I just like higher for my rims. Then again I don't continue the 64 iterations all the way in, only at the rims. So its closer to a 24 to 32 iteration saucer in poly count (i've even gotten them down to a 16 iteration poly count, didn't like the look though), but w/ a 64 it rim.
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I'm detecting a pattern.....
The Pattern of everyone saying "Use less Polies" maybe?
Indeed....
48 polies can work, actually - my kelvin-esque ships use 48 edges around the circumference of the saucer.
O yeah, you can use 48 - I just like higher for my rims. Then again I don't continue the 64 iterations all the way in, only at the rims. So its closer to a 24 to 32 iteration saucer in poly count (i've even gotten them down to a 16 iteration poly count, didn't like the look though), but w/ a 64 it rim.
Ah, see - I don't like to reduce the poly count as I get closer to the center of the saucer. I will if i absolutely must, but I don't like to - it screws with meshsmoothing (in case i want to use the model for that) as well as cell-shaders (in case I want to use the model for that, too).
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Ah, see - I don't like to reduce the poly count as I get closer to the center of the saucer. I will if i absolutely must, but I don't like to - it screws with meshsmoothing (in case i want to use the model for that) as well as cell-shaders (in case I want to use the model for that, too).
Well the welding is only done after i'm sure that is what I want. I use turbosmooth as i work up from basic shapes, but never after i've begun optimizing. Never works then ;)
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I mean I'll apply turbosmooths and what not for renders, not for the game model.
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For saucers try using 24 to 32 and then subdivide the last row by 2 to get a smooth edge. You can then remove some loops on the vertical edge of the saucer where you don't need the subdivisions.
This saucer started with 28 divisions. I subD the last row by 2 which gives it 112 on the rim without having the whole saucer use 112 which would have made the poly count for the bridge and impulse area enormously high for no good reason.
The nacelles started as a 28 sided sphere. There's no obvious faceting on them at any distance you are going to see it at in game.
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well my saucer isnt 48 its 60, nacelles are also 60 along with engy hull. I hate it to look unsmooth and I can notice it. My tiber for instance is 12k and runs just fine on my system and is also visablly smooth, the shading distortion on the render i cant explain it doenst look that way rendered in .mod
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The problem is that you aren't separating your smoothing groups - so it gets borked in game. Check otu my youtube channel. The Second Break-Model tutorial has an explination.
www.youtube.com/robinomicon
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well my saucer isnt 48 its 60, nacelles are also 60 along with engy hull. I hate it to look unsmooth and I can notice it. My tiber for instance is 12k and runs just fine on my system and is also visablly smooth, the shading distortion on the render i cant explain it doenst look that way rendered in .mod
60 iterations on the naccels and hull is defintly overkill. at most 32, 18-24 is preferable though. The saucer, if you wish to keep it at iterations, really needs to have a lot of welding done to the interior (much like rods example) to reduce polies. The reality is the further in you go, the less those iterations matter, and the more wasted polies you develop. Your goal is to utilize all your polies to their max, and that means using them wisely and learning a few tricks of the trade ;)
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If you want to look at it a certain way, too, you can say that the more planar that the faces are in relation to one another the less you need verts, but thats getting pretty convoluted.
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Candle you need to listen to what these guys are telling you, and Rod has shown a perfect example of how it is done, anything other than that is just lazy.
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well im back, sorry i didnt reply sooner I just got an ulcer removed and spent a few days in the hospital got released about an hour ago
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Lol and the first thing ya do is go straight back to your models ;) I like your style.
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well no, i started a job actully, taking most of my time, I work at home for my mothers union, im building there website and webmastering it, im 24/7 on call for problems and am spending most of my time not spent with the wife working, so ive gotta take a break on the models, work before play.
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Yes, and wives are work, not play. ;)