Post by: jdmckinney on March 23, 2003, 10:04:26 pm
First, would people prefer to use the stock Taldren shiplist, or FireSoul's OP+ Shiplist?
Second, would you like victory conditions with points for territory growth and planet captures, or a simple non-VC invasion campaign?
Third, would you like teams or a free-for-all?
Any other feedback outside of these questions is welcomed.
Post by: jdmckinney on March 23, 2003, 10:04:47 pm
Post by: jdmckinney on March 23, 2003, 10:05:19 pm
Post by: jdmckinney on March 23, 2003, 10:08:03 pm
Should we use Taldren missions only, Taldren and "Evil Dave" missions, or "Evil Dave" missions only?
Post by: Dizzy on March 23, 2003, 11:13:10 pm
Get in line and take a number.
Post by: FireSoul on March 23, 2003, 11:39:01 pm
We want information on buggy Taldren missions!
.. playing with ED's missions will.. well.. obscure that a bit, non?
-- Luc
Post by: FPF_TraceyG on March 24, 2003, 12:00:06 am
Post by: CptCastrin on March 24, 2003, 12:11:00 am
Quote:
damnit jd, I KNEW you would pull this [censored].
Get in line and take a number.
Diz, chill out.
We have no intention of introducing anything "in between" or durring the current scheduled SFC2 server campaigns. Nomad is only looking for input.
Geeeez.
Post by: CptCastrin on March 24, 2003, 12:15:43 am
Quote:
Hey there JD, is this the series of mini-campaigns Mog was telling me about? Tides of War?
To be honest Tracy we're not sure, we're sort of in the info gathering stage right now.
There are a few ideas that we have including the original Tides of War macro-campaign and other less "ambitious" campaign ideas.
Post by: ZTempest on March 24, 2003, 12:26:10 am
Quote:
damnit jd, I KNEW you would pull this [censored].
Get in line and take a number.
There are no OP campaigns planned or scheduled. That previous scheduling thread appears to ignore OP completely and focuses solely on EAW. That is fine, and I think that it is a good idea to schedule these things..but some of us play only OP. Sorry. Not interested in EAW right now.
Not to start any flames, but we have a new OP patch, a new OP serverkit, and a very interesting shiplist developed by Firesoul (OP Plus). We have the Evil Dave missions ported to OP.
And yet if you go into the OP dyna, all you see is a test server. Odd, eh?
Why not an OP Campaign? Why not test the waters and see if there is an interest in this sort of thing?
No need to get so defensive, Dizzy. The player base is there, and offering an OP alternative to just a test server seems appropriate. I would like to have some fun too....playing OP. There might be some others like me as well.
Post by: FPF_TraceyG on March 24, 2003, 12:32:10 am
Post by: Cleaven on March 24, 2003, 12:49:13 am
As for the map, just keep minimal neutral hexes so we don't have to go stir crazy doing miles of solo hexes.
Post by: ZTempest on March 24, 2003, 12:56:08 am
Quote:
Regarding the SFC2 campaign schedule, the only reason why there aren't any OP campaigns listed, is because none were in the works. So, just to reassure you then, OP is not being ignored at all, and in fact, many are looking forward to a major OP campaign now that the patch is out.
Understandable. SFCX has had several campaign concepts in the works for literally a year or more -- we have been waiting for this patch and hoping for OP D2 fixes. Tides of War, the Next Rooks Tavern, Badlands (it is listed..not sure if we have done any work on it lately or not), and a few other ideas as well. I am not fostering an "us vs. them" issue between OP and EAW -- such conflicts are NOT in the interest for the future life of the D2 -- but there is (or used to be) a hard core of OP players that were not interested in EAW, and with the recent advances in OP, the fires of curiousity may once again be kindled.
The problem is this, though. The SFC2 EAW campaign schedule is booked out for a good chunk of the coming year. Should a future OP campaign server wait six months or more before running any sort of campaign or even a light campaign server because of a major EAW campaign? I don't think so. In some cases, the player base does cross over. In others, there is no crossover. Some OP players would like to have something to play on also. Is it fair to have these players wait for a server to play on because another game that they do not play has a server running at the same time?
Just my opinion. Might be completely wrong and perhaps the OP D2 is totally dead after all of this time. Perhaps that is what Nomad is trying to find out. Regardless of the outcome, I support and applaud his initiative with this poll, and I think that rather than divide the community further, we need to be supportive of ALL efforts, EAW and OP alike, because for some players, OP is the game for them, not EAW. I know it is for me. I support enthusiasitically the servers that are running on the EAW D2, and I even drop into them from time to time, but OP is my preferred game, and I think it would be neat for an OP server to come up for us to bang around on. Why can't we all just support every D2 effort, OP and EAW alike?
Because I will tell you now. Our player base is slowly shrinking, and we did lose some players to SFC3. Plain fact. It is time to unite and recognize all efforts, not be divisive and arguementative.
Post by: Dizzy on March 24, 2003, 01:04:16 am
Quote:
Ztempest:
No need to get so defensive, Dizzy. The player base is there, and offering an OP alternative to just a test server seems appropriate. I would like to have some fun too....playing OP. There might be some others like me as well.
1st off, dont tell me about being defensive. You have no idea.
2nd what player base? You think you know something about having 2x servers up and having adequate players for both servers? If so I'd like to know.
3rd, I dont care where you have your fun as long as it isnt on a competing server to whats already planned.
4th, SG3 would be an OP server if OP D2 actually worked, which it doesnt.
Post by: Fluf on March 24, 2003, 01:06:10 am
Post by: FireSoul on March 24, 2003, 01:10:04 am
.. I just want to be able to help fix the damned thing.
-- Luc
Post by: ZTempest on March 24, 2003, 01:13:13 am
Quote:Quote:
Ztempest:
No need to get so defensive, Dizzy. The player base is there, and offering an OP alternative to just a test server seems appropriate. I would like to have some fun too....playing OP. There might be some others like me as well.
1st off, dont tell me about being defensive. You have no idea.
2nd what player base? You think you know something about having 2x servers up and having adequate players for both servers? If so I'd like to know.
3rd, I dont care where you have your fun as long as it isnt on a competing server to whats already planned.
4th, SG3 would be an OP server if OP D2 actually worked, which it doesnt.
Geez Dizzy? Are you bllind?
I have been in this community LONGER than you have. You have a short memory. Remember when you and I played Hydran together in a major campaign? It was even an OP server! You were the Race Moderator/Commander, and I was your second in command. How easily you forget.
I was one of the FEW who defended your views in times past, when you were being a bit over the top. I guess you have forgotten that as well.
And this arguement about servers is an old one, and you know it. Can two servers exist at the same time? It HAS been done in the past.
Why do you have to take everything to the next level?
As far as where I have my fun at....well, that is my choice. Why do you have to make this into some sort of negative competition -- isn't this type of thing what got you in trouble ages ago in the first place with this community?
Chill.
Post by: Dizzy on March 24, 2003, 01:15:21 am
Quote:
Ztempest:
... and perhaps the OP D2 is totally dead after all of this time. Perhaps that is what Nomad is trying to find out. Regardless of the outcome, I support and applaud his initiative with this poll...
It...is...not...a...poll. It is a server planner for JD that I already quoted him on saying it was 'comming soon'.
You are seriously twisting your words around. Not being argumentative and divisive, eh?
Tell you what... You fix the DV issue with OP and I'll take SG3 there for ya, k? I'm no stranger to OP. But if the OP DV issue is still a problem, then all this BS needs to stop with this post. All future planners for an OP server can just STFU until OP is fixed, thank you very much.
Post by: FPF_TraceyG on March 24, 2003, 01:25:40 am
Quote:Quote:
Regarding the SFC2 campaign schedule, the only reason why there aren't any OP campaigns listed, is because none were in the works. So, just to reassure you then, OP is not being ignored at all, and in fact, many are looking forward to a major OP campaign now that the patch is out.
Understandable. SFCX has had several campaign concepts in the works for literally a year or more -- we have been waiting for this patch and hoping for OP D2 fixes. Tides of War, the Next Rooks Tavern, Badlands (it is listed..not sure if we have done any work on it lately or not), and a few other ideas as well. I am not fostering an "us vs. them" issue between OP and EAW -- such conflicts are NOT in the interest for the future life of the D2 -- but there is (or used to be) a hard core of OP players that were not interested in EAW, and with the recent advances in OP, the fires of curiousity may once again be kindled.
The problem is this, though. The SFC2 EAW campaign schedule is booked out for a good chunk of the coming year. Should a future OP campaign server wait six months or more before running any sort of campaign or even a light campaign server because of a major EAW campaign? I don't think so. In some cases, the player base does cross over. In others, there is no crossover. Some OP players would like to have something to play on also. Is it fair to have these players wait for a server to play on because another game that they do not play has a server running at the same time?
Just my opinion. Might be completely wrong and perhaps the OP D2 is totally dead after all of this time. Perhaps that is what Nomad is trying to find out. Regardless of the outcome, I support and applaud his initiative with this poll, and I think that rather than divide the community further, we need to be supportive of ALL efforts, EAW and OP alike, because for some players, OP is the game for them, not EAW. I know it is for me. I support enthusiasitically the servers that are running on the EAW D2, and I even drop into them from time to time, but OP is my preferred game, and I think it would be neat for an OP server to come up for us to bang around on. Why can't we all just support every D2 effort, OP and EAW alike?
Because I will tell you now. Our player base is slowly shrinking, and we did lose some players to SFC3. Plain fact. It is time to unite and recognize all efforts, not be divisive and arguementative.
I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've said Tempest. I'd like to see some major OP campaigns as well.
Now, the EAW server schedule, can be considered a SFC2 schedule incorporating both EAW and OP. SFC2.net is also considering hosting some OP campaigns as well. As you say, it is in the best interests of the community that players arent forced to choose between major campaigns, hence the schedule. However, there is no reason at all why a test server or 'minor' campaign can't be run simultaneously. By minor campaign, I mean a fun server.
My suggestion then, is this. I'd like to see an OP fun server put up for at least a couple weeks as soon as one is ready. It can go up at anytime, no need to 'slot' it into the schedule. SFC2.net has left the 7.35 server up as a fun server or practice server, and I'd like to see something similar for OP as well. This gives players the choice of always having somewhere to go.
About Tides of War, as has been mentioned, albeit, only in conversation, if its a series of mini-campaigns that say go for 2 weeks, I think these would run very well by placing them in between other major servers. It gives people 2 weeks off from and ensures that a major server is always available, as well as offering the variety of both EAW and OP. This was something that's already been discussed and so far seems to be a good idea. I don't want anyone having the impression that a small number of players or people have a monopoly over any campaign schedule, and working things out like this of course requires cooperation and compromise from everyone, but I have every confidence that what we, the community and the players, can come up with, will be the best that we can. SFC2 (both EAW and OP) is going to be around for quite some time, and with recent developments, I don't think our playerbase will shrink, if anything, it may increase.
Post by: ZTempest on March 24, 2003, 01:26:28 am
At least you brought out a chuckle or two.
First off, YOU do not determine what does or does not happen in SFC D2. If someone wants to put up a D2 OP server, you can't stop them.
Secondly, stop with the profanity. I don't like it, never have. It is something that people have warned you about before. I don't appreciate it, and I don't want to see it. Take a deep breath, and if you can manage to make a post without the acronym vulgarity, then do so.
You are quickly pushing me into wondering if this game is worth playing anymore, if this is the attitude that characterizes your group, and the philosophy behind your campaign. Sorry. Had to say it. We are all ambassadors of goodwill and those of us who plan these campaigns do it for the benifit of the community, not to fight amongst one another.
The OP DV issue is workable. We need to test it some more...but our initial impressions (and most of us are in the testing group, incidently) have found that the DV might just be able to work correctly. The fixes have to take place in the map design phase from what I understand, and maybe some server side stuff as well. Nomad and Castrin are smarter on those sorts of issues in SFCX than I am.
In any case, get a grip, please.
Post by: Dizzy on March 24, 2003, 01:31:05 am
Lets meet at Sarritas and settle this with an arm wrestle fight. Best 2 out of 3.
I'm very serious. If the OP D2 DV is fixed, I'll take SG3 there in a second. But its not so I wont.
And ya, ZT, I remember trading emails with you and our hydran RM roles on the RT servers, but you dont know why I'm taking this to the next level. And it isnt you.
Post by: ZTempest on March 24, 2003, 01:43:06 am
Quote:
I see you are in san antonio TX as well.
Lets meet at Sarritas and settle this with an arm wrestle fight. Best 2 out of 3.
I'm very serious. If the OP D2 DV is fixed, I'll take SG3 there in a second. But its not so I wont.
And ya, ZT, I remember trading emails with you and our hydran RM roles on the RT servers, but you dont know why I'm taking this to the next level. And it isnt you.
I understand, Dizzy. And yes, I am in San Antonio as well. Active Army stationed here (22 years now, career Army, been here for the past three years). I work out at Camp Bullis.
Maybe we'll meet sometime and buy some beers on the Riverwalk at Fiesta. I know it isn't me, and I know how frustrated you can get. I DO understand you to some degree, because I have followed your exploits since some of your first posts.
I have played on all of the Slave Girls servers -- up until now they have all been OP campaigns, but I understand your frustration with the OP DV issues -- after all, it is what damaged the last Rooks Tavern. I know it is not about me, and I know that it has everything to do with the campaign.
SG3 is not endangered. I imagine that if there is an OP campaign put up by SFCX, that it will be a fun server, and not a serious effort on the same scale as a Rooks Tavern, Badlands, Tides of War, etc. We have a lot of irons in the fire...and perhaps it would be to our benifit if Castrin coordinated with Tracy to fit in a couple of serious OP campaigns.
Once again, I understand where you are coming from. We will work through it -- this community needs to be united, not divided....and servicing both sides of the D2 might be a step in the right direction in fostering more players.
Post by: Dizzy on March 24, 2003, 01:51:44 am
Quote:
First off, YOU do not determine what does or does not happen in SFC D2. If someone wants to put up a D2 OP server, you can't stop them.
Well, SG3 was.. er is a good idea. So ya I do have a bit of determining in what happens in the D2 realm. And considering I hosted an OP server in the past, then yes I do definitely determine what happens. And as far as stopping someone trying to host a broken OP server, nah, I'll let them waste their time.
Quote:
Secondly, stop with the profanity. I don't like it, never have. It is something that people have warned you about before. I don't appreciate it, and I don't want to see it. Take a deep breath, and if you can manage to make a post without the acronym vulgarity, then do so.
Nope, aint gonna happen. Dizzy and STFU go together like cream in coffee. Dont ask again, request denied.
Quote:
You are quickly pushing me into wondering if this game is worth playing anymore, if this is the attitude that characterizes your group, and the philosophy behind your campaign. Sorry. Had to say it.
You are not sorry and you certainly didnt have to say it. And as far as me pushing you to not playing, how bout I say you are pushing me to not hosting SG3? Ridiculous isnt it? If you dont want to play SFC anymore, it certainly wont be because of me and I certainly wont stop you. And as far as characterizing the 'attitude' of my group, hehe, I act alone. I have a time slot for MY D2 campaign. I suspect you will want to borrow it now for JD's OP server???
And please explain the philosophy of my campaigns... I'd like to know.
Quote:
The OP DV issue is workable. We need to test it some more...but our initial impressions (and most of us are in the testing group, incidently) have found that the DV might just be able to work correctly.
Test test test test. All I ever hear about OP these days, er for the past YEAR! It doesnt look to me JD is wanting to test anything since letting slip that 'comming soon' to a D2 near you post neatly camoflauged into a poll post.
Quote:
In any case, get a grip, please.
Purple.
Post by: Dizzy on March 24, 2003, 01:56:10 am
Quote:
I know it is not about me, and I know that it has everything to do with the campaign. Once again, I understand where you are coming from. We will work through it -- this community needs to be united, not divided....and servicing both sides of the D2 might be a step in the right direction in fostering more players.
It's not you. Its what you said afterwards there... And ya, we will do some long necks mb.
Quote:
I imagine that if there is an OP campaign put up by SFCX, that it will be a fun server, and not a serious effort on the same scale as a Rooks Tavern, Badlands, Tides of War, etc. We have a lot of irons in the fire...and perhaps it would be to our benifit if Castrin coordinated with Tracy to fit in a couple of serious OP campaigns.
It wouldnt be to your benefit, its the only way.
Quote:
I have played on all of the Slave Girls servers -- up until now they have all been OP campaigns, but I understand your frustration with the OP DV issues -- after all, it is what damaged the last Rooks Tavern.
But tell you this... I'ss support ANY means necessary to get OP DV to work. I'd love to put SG3 back on to OP. EAW barely does it justice. Besides, the OP nebulas are prettier than EAW's...
Post by: ZTempest on March 24, 2003, 02:01:59 am
Well, your position is stated quite well.
Look, I am not even sure what this issue is about anymore. Is it an EAW vs OP thing, or do you have a problem with Nomad testing the waters?
Read my last post, Dizzy. I am not the bad guy here. I even support SG3. If you choose not to host it, then so be it. Your choice. It is a free country. Getting a slot for JD's server by making you mad enough not to host SG3? LOL! How amusing! If there is an OP server put up....why does it have to revolve around whether or not there is an SG3?
I told you before....SG3 is not being threatened. Put your server up....we will all have fun on it. We might run a fun Op server as well. Is there anything wrong with that?
And who made you god of the D2? Anybody with a computer can run a server as far as I know. Shoot. I could even run a server if I wanted to. You do not have a monopoly on what does and does not happen there. I imagine that you want to run SG3 for the same reasons that other members of this community that take the time to design and run these campaigns -- because it is fun and sort of cool. It is not about power or control -- we do this for fun....or at least I do.
And, like most other senior NCOs...I take my coffee black, no sugar. Cream is for....heh. Almost broke my own rule.
Post by: Dizzy on March 24, 2003, 02:07:18 am
Post by: Cleaven on March 24, 2003, 02:41:40 am
Quote:
well.. me..
.. I just want to be able to help fix the damned thing.
-- Luc
Same same. Now is there a reason not to use the OP+ list? I would rather not have to change lists between GSA and D2. If there is a good reason then I will remove OP+ until things are worked out.
I'm also guessing that everybody will concentrate on an empire only server i.e. no playable pirates, without any advanced era distractions either.
Post by: Mog on March 24, 2003, 05:11:23 am
Dizzy, you don't feel threatened by a test server do you? What with this, and your petty little argument with Herr Burt about who decided to use Tholians first, it's becoming more and more obvious that you're on an ego trip here. If you want to boot me off your SG3 team for saying this then go right ahead.
As for whether OP D2 works or not, there's only one way to find out, and if the only players who help are the ones who only have OP, then so be it. Any who help will have my gratitude, as ever since OP was released it has been my favourite game of the series, and to hopefully have a resurgence in its popularity makes me happy.
Post by: Can-able on March 24, 2003, 06:10:25 am
I just feel that i have to say this to you ...... STFU you ego maniac !!!!!
I am amazed at how self inmportant you think you are...... For god sake grow up...
Please remove me access to you SG3 server team forum, i can't be arsed to ever read [censored] by you any more, i once though hay he is funny..... I liked the agro you caused people...But this is petty...and just you wanting to be self important.
You shore you are a grown adult or you a 5 year old kid....I am never shore with the way you act.
Also i have 2 Weeks of work and 3 spare servers to build...Hummm...Might just host at the same time as SG3
My point being is YOU could not stop me......And if you keep shouting ya mouth and acting like you own the D2 i might just do it out of spite, becuse thats the kind of person i am.
GL with SG3 and have fun...just stope being a prick !!!
I read the thing about you thinking you where the first to use tholians as well and well No they where in SFB first, and every one has been trying to get them in to this game for ages, So you did NOT come up with the idea.......
EDIT : Thease are my thoughts NOT SFCX !!!! mine all mine
Post by: IndyShark on March 24, 2003, 07:05:54 am
Post by: jdmckinney on March 24, 2003, 08:07:16 am
Dizzy, I don't know why you seem to be dead set against the SFCX group even hosting a server. Even if you have a problem with me or one of our group members, why do you think it affects you if we host a server? Certainly, I'm not out to torpedo SG -- I'm not even aware of anything about it other than a name and that it seems to be in the final planning stages. Seriously, I don't read EAW campaign threads, and haven't for some time. I don't play EAW campaigns (not enough time), so I don't read threads about them. If someone asked me about SG, I'd guess it was an EAW campaign run by Dizzy that is due out "soon," though I would also have wondered why it's taking so long to get started, since it seems to have been in planning for some time now. I really don't know anything about it, and don't really care. I also have not even glanced at this supposed "schedule" that seems to exist (I didn't know about it until I read this thread).
"Coming soon" means "coming soon." There is no target date, though I generally like to get things done ASAP. In my experience, it tends to take between 2 weeks and 3 months to plan, test, and begin a campaign, depending on how complex the VCs and map design are. I even mentioned in an email to the SFCX crew we could conceivably get something running by the weekend -- but I didn't realistically expect to be able to roll out by then. We usually take a few weeks to get things done, due to people's schedules, time for planning/design/testing, etc.
So, would I push to roll out a campaign during SG's run (or any other campaign, EAW or OP)? Yes, because we have been waiting for a usable OP D2 for a year, and we've waited long enough. This test server kit seems to give us workable DV changes for the first time since OP was released. We have a kick-butt custom shiplist the community enjoys. There are custom missions for OP now. With a working D2, what is left to test and wait for? Testing can basically happen during campaigns, as long as people understand that we might find more bugs.
Dizzy, you do what is best for you and your players -- if that means getting a copy of the OP test kit and making SG an OP campaign, then great! If it means sticking with a proven platform and running it on EAW, then that's great, too! I hope and expect you'll get a lot of players, except of course for those who hate you enough to avoid anything your name is attached to -- though I bet most people are indifferent and just want a good campaign.
I personally don't care how many people play on an SFCX server. If it's more than 1 per empire, then that would be cool. If not, at least we would have offered OP players something.
If someone could give me a clue as to how many players the EAW servers have been drawing at peak hours, I'd appreciate the insights. I really don't know if there are enough for even one campaign, or enough for a dozen. Are campaigns using a player limit of 32? 48? whatever? Are they getting filled at peak hours? Also, are there still more EAW diehards than people who would consider playing OP?
The bottom line for me is OP needs to be played, or it won't get further fixes -- there's no need to fix it if nobody will play it. SFCX has been wanting to do a number of OP campaigns for the past year and been unable to do so thanks to the D2 bugs. If someone asks us to wait, I'll tell them I'm sorry, but we won't let others dictate our schedule. We were more than giving in our delays when there were 3 competing OP campaigns, plus EAW ones, and we tended to get pushed back and back until there wasn't a game left to host. While I think schedules are a good thing, I don't think anyone or any group has the right to dictate when the other admins can or can't host a server, or what form it should take.
Dizzy, if you want to continue your flames, please start a new thread for it. Our plans don't revolve around you, and we don't answer to you. If you insist on seeing us as enemies or competition, then that's your problem. I'm more than willing to work with or talk to anyone who wants to see OP become the game it can be and serve the players.
One last thing: Castrin has said it before, and I think it's true: ALL servers should be "FUN" servers. Regardless of what level of VCs or rules are used, if they aren't fun, they're just a waste of time and effort. We'll make whatever sort of campaign we feel like making, and either people will have fun or they won't go there. "Fun" doesn't mean trivial, second-rate, or filler. At least, it doesn't to me.
Post by: jdmckinney on March 24, 2003, 08:28:34 am
Oh yes, the polls. So far, with just a dozen-ish people weighing in, it looks like folks want:
1. OP Plus Shiplist
2. Capture/expansion VCs
3. Teams of empires
4. Combination of Taldren and ED missions
Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming.
Tracey, and anyone interested, here's my take on ToW. First, it's SFCX's grand campaign project that was originally devised to try to work around the OP D2 issues. We were going to have mini-campaigns that would reflect various theatres of war at different times, some running at the same time. This way, we could get a number of players for any given race/team represented by not having all empires available in every installment. We could also manage OOB and VCs better with many smaller-scale campaigns that contributed to the larger whole than with one giant open map campaign that runs for a month or more. Short, focused campaigns would keep the DB from getting too messy over time, would force people to concentrate on their VCs right away, and would allow us to squeeze minis in between larger campaigns if people wanted to participate in both.
We let that plan sit on the back burner due to the buggy OP D2 and the fact that many SFCXers were testing SFC3 last summer/fall.
We would like ToW to be a real SFB-type campaign, with its own custom shiplist based directly on SFB material (no invented ships, many corrections to stock shiplist errors, playable Tholians, Andromedans, WYN, and LDR depending on the mini theatre, etc.). The timeline would roughly use the SFB History of the General War as a guide to major events, but it would be allowed to take its own path independent of this history. Hopefully a couple or a few admins could participate by hosting some of the mini campaigns. Players would sign up for their teams, but be allowed to change empires within that team. Team leadership would help us install an order of battle. Volunteers would help police the rules/behavior. Tactical leaders would be free to take control of war plans, though they would also be responsible for reporting VCs or making sure their players do.
This is our current vision of a grand-scale OP campaign. We're not ready for it yet, but if OP holds up under the strain for a couple of campaigns, we could very well start ToW this summer if all the pieces fall into place. Then again, I said that last year, and we never got past the idea stage.
Post by: FireSoul on March 24, 2003, 08:45:09 am
Quote:Quote:
well.. me..
.. I just want to be able to help fix the damned thing.
-- Luc
Same same. Now is there a reason not to use the OP+ list? I would rather not have to change lists between GSA and D2. If there is a good reason then I will remove OP+ until things are worked out.
I'm also guessing that everybody will concentrate on an empire only server i.e. no playable pirates, without any advanced era distractions either.
I made sure the OP+ works well with the single-player campaigns. There should be no problems with a D2 server. I would like to encourage you to try it and find out if there are problems.
There shouldn't be any.
-- Luc
Post by: FireSoul on March 24, 2003, 08:47:42 am
Quote:
I'd love to see a new OP campaign. Bring on the OP+ shiplist and EvilDave!
Although the EvilDave missions are excellent, using them wouldn't give me the information needed to be helpful in fixing the stock missions.
Is there some way to compromise?
-- Luc
Post by: jimmi7769 on March 24, 2003, 09:14:53 am
Quote:Quote:
I'd love to see a new OP campaign. Bring on the OP+ shiplist and EvilDave!
Although the EvilDave missions are excellent, using them wouldn't give me the information needed to be helpful in fixing the stock missions.
Is there some way to compromise?
-- Luc
2 seperate servers.
Post by: Can-able on March 24, 2003, 09:21:22 am
As long as the Real File name's of the SCR files (Mission names) are on a test server , then i can't see why you can do you script info gathering with ED missions as well , as long as people only know to only reports things relating to the Stock missions.
2 servers is a good idea though
Post by: EmeraldEdge on March 24, 2003, 09:27:00 am
Post by: FPF_TraceyG on March 24, 2003, 09:28:42 am
Post by: Kroma_BaSyl on March 24, 2003, 09:35:59 am
Quote:
Dizzy and STFU go together like cream in coffee.
Don't you mean like stink on sh*t?
Firesoul, I was on your homepage but couldn't find your OP+ shiplist. Could you please post a link?
Thanks,
Kroma
PS, Now everybody please take a deep beath.........oooooooooo...yuck.....who just soiled them selves again?
Post by: jdmckinney on March 24, 2003, 10:05:48 am
The fact is we've championed OP since day one, when most people badmouthed it or gave up. Even when we couldn't do all we wanted to, we still were working behind the scenes to keep OP alive. Why should we let someone else who wasn't there in the trenches with us dictate what we do? If we put up a server now, it will be to test the limits of the test kit while giving OP players a chance to play the game again. I don't see why that can't be done while other campaigns are happening, since ours would not be as intensive a VC campaign, and would not require the same level of commitment from players.
I'm tired of people inventing competition and conflict where there is none. If there are players for the servers, then shouldn't we give them choices? How is the community served by having only one "serious" campaign at a time? If someone doesn't like that campaign's format, they get left out in the cold.
As I said, I'm all for working with other admins, but I don't and won't promise to stick to someone else's schedule that has no input from us. That's just me. The rest of the SFCX crew will probably have more say in the design and running of any campaign we do than I will, and it will be up to the group when and how we run campaigns. If they all feel we can do our thing while working from a schedule that includes EAW and OP campaigns, then I'm all for it. I just don't want to put off what we want to do simply to keep the Dizzies of the world happy, because the truth is they won't be happy anyway.
Tracey, you don't know me, and I don't know you. All I want is to be taken at my word. I am not in competition with anyone here, and wholeheartedly endorse any campaign that comes along, because the more that are run, and the more players we have, the longer this game will survive and even flourish. I still have not looked at any schedules, and nobody from the SFCX group has mentioned any dates or proposals to me at this point. When they do, I will give my input and help the group with whatever it decides.
If you would like to discuss scheduling or plans for D2 in more detail, feel free to email me (if my profile doesn't have my address, let me know). Otherwise, I'd like to get this topic back on course and find out what the players' feedback is for anything we might or might not decide to do.
Post by: Can-able on March 24, 2003, 10:05:54 am
Quote:
JD, I'm sure I speak for everyone in saying this. We ALL support OP. We all want to see it work. And furthermore, we all want to see some really good campaigns being played. However, we all have to get along, and I would ask you to reconsider your stance on ignoring everyone else's wishes. Please read the campaign schedule at the top of the D2 forum. The people who have been working on these campaigns have done so arduously and with great effort and time. It is unreasonable to undermine the playerbase and force people to choose between major campaigns as I have outlined in earlier posts. OP and EAW are virtually the same game and I see no reason for rivalry between the two. Cooperation is the key here and if we don't all get along, then we are shooting ourselves in the foot. I cannot stress this enough. Now that the OP patch is out, yes, we'd like to see some OP campaigns in that schedule. But work with the rest of us. Anything else is untenable and not only unfair to the players, but also to the server admins as well. Please don't bully your way and do what you like. I have already discussed with members of SFCX how best we can fit some OP campaigns into the schedule to benefit everyone for the greater good of the community. So please talk to them, in particular Moggie. We want to see everyone gets a fair go and equal treatment. Thankyou.
Tracy
What you have to take in to consideration is that we as a group of OP admin can't fit in to the EAW schedule the way it is set out, When would a OP campaign have time to fit in ???
There are 4 EAW campaigns back to back ????
DOE
SG3
ISC one (Soz can't remember name)
Return of Doc Strange Love
Like Doug says we OP players have been waiting for the D2 to be fixed so that we could bring some fun back to the game, Now what Dizzy and yourself are saying is that they should wait even longer because of a GENTLMENS agreement between the EAW admin.....
Now every one knew that OP was ready to be patched and knew that this patch would hopefully brings some Campaigns to life in the OP word, But who ever drew up the Schedule never contacted SFCX as the Primary OP Admins group or even took in to consideration the OP side of things at all.
There maybe a player base involved in this , and I do not want to split the player base in half ......
But the facts of the matter is Interplay did it for us.
The Old chestnut go's is Interplay made 2 games that should have been 1 and a add on, Now there are people like myself that when OP was released moved on to a sequel witch I will still defend as a better game.
Think of it like this :
I Brand New server admin comes in to the forums and announces a server that he has been working on for ages and it go's up tomorrow, Would you in all honesty tell them to take it down ??? Could you...No one could do any thing.
The one thing in this world I hate more is being told when I can do things and this is what is being said in this tread. And I Tel ya know when some one do's tell me what I can and can't do I go out of my way to do what the hell I like.
So I ask now are any of the other Admins in the schedule willing to move down and let a OP campaign in before it ?????
But then would a server be put up just for the EAW people that don't have OP , Seen it happen before I bet it would again, but then should not the same curtsey be shown to the OP players that don't have EAW ??
Post by: CptCastrin on March 24, 2003, 10:07:16 am
It's one of the founding tenants of SFCx that we are here to help (by hosting files, support tools, promote cooperation, orhelp coordinate) ALL campaigns that are in D2 (and to a degree D3) as best we can. Frell look at our site, most of the recent posts have been on EaW campaigns, and none of them ours.
Diz, your fear that a SFCx will try and take SG3 time slot can be put to rest. There is no intent to do so and if anything I will be sure that it doesn't happen (and I DO have that power). Certainly I'm sorry that you took Nomads "comming soon" statement out of context but you really should be less defensive about this. We are all here for one reason and that's to try and have some fun and make it fun for others in EaW and OP.
Now a quik note about those servers that are "listed" on SFCx:
Badlands - has been a non-serious campaign server and will continue to be. Yes, there were plans at one time to make it serious but those were moved to ToW (some what). Very soon the SFCx test server will be replaced with Badlands and it will use the OP+ shiplist and ED missions (when released).
Rook's Tavern 4 - in theory this is a major campaign but work on it was stopped because of the OP DV problems. There are no current plans to revive it but we hold the option open if we feel that it can be done justice to (considering the name and history of RT).
Tides of War - was and still is our "big" campaign that in theory will encompase several servers. It was originally intended to address the severe short commings of OP D2. I think that mostly our work will focus on this however I don't feel that we'd be ready for even a beta server for a few months and given the current schedule I don't see a need to hurry. I'd rather get it right then rush to get something up, especially when there is no immediate need.
There, all our current cards are on the table. Tracy feel free to contact me with any questions on times / dates (not that we have any right now) and I'll be sure to keep SFC2.net in the loop. Could you email me so I have your addy? Mine is linked above (cptcastrin[2]pegicorn.com) or is that below? Don't know anymore with this new board.
Thanks for all the input guys please add your comments or vote on / in the polls that Nomad put up.
Post by: jdmckinney on March 24, 2003, 10:15:15 am
Please understand that I've been in the business of keeping SFC going for a long time now, and I have the utmost respect for anyone who helps improve the games or host servers. Your contributions to the community have been above and beyond the call, and I thank you. Hopefully we will have a chance to work together in the future.
Post by: FPF_TraceyG on March 24, 2003, 10:47:16 am
The server schedule doesnt actually belong to anyone, not SFC2.net or GFL or anyone in particular.
Its the product of a democratic process where many people discussed various issues and interests. Its not set in stone, and it certainly isnt held as a monopoly by anyone in particular and, anyone who wants put up a campaign has the right to do so. Its the beginning of an orderly process by which all of us can coordinate together to bring the best of campaigns to the D2. Now, with the OP patch out, we need to take that into consideration and start working in some OP campaigns. I am all for seeing a major OP campaign soon, its been too long between drinks as they say. The task then is not so much whether or not we can accomodate that, but how. I appreciate your past problems as you describe of campaigns being put off etc. and I'm sorry to hear things havent worked in the past. I'm confident, however, that we can overcome that and ensure everyone gets a fair deal. Personally, I don't want to see OP have to wait 6 months for a major campaign as the above schdule suggests, and various good ideas have been put forward on how we can get an OP campaign up soon, without stepping on toes, as you say. I might add, this democratic scheduling is something that we, as a community, are doing together, and that means all of us. No one is more important than anyone else, and we all have the same goal, to have fun playing a game we all love. There arent any bosses here, just indians. I kind of like that way... lol!!
Feel free to add me to your MSN contact list if you use MSN.
Post by: FPF_TraceyG on March 24, 2003, 11:22:21 am
Castrin, Can-able (who I have on my MSN contact list), I agree with all there as well.
I think we're batting on the same team here, I dont see it as being a big problem to incorporate OP campaigns into the larger scope of things. All we have to do is sit down and work out how to do it.
Please dont give up and say its too hard. One thing everyone agrees upon is our playerbase needs to be accomadated for. I think, that with all our combined efforts, we might see that player base expand, however, all I'm asking is that we conduct things in an orderly fashion. Yes, we want an OP campaign up soon as possible, and I thank the SFCX team for all the hard work they are doing and plan to continue to do. No EAW campaign is going to undermine an OP campaign, and I'd like to think the converse is also true. Unto that end, we will find a way to accomodate the needs of both games, thanks to the legacy, as you say, left behind with us by Interplay. I, myself, am looking forward to playing on a major OP campaign, and I'm sure many others are as well.
So, lets return this thread to its original purpose, and get some feedback on what we'd like to see in an OP campaign and when we have an idea of how to implement that, we'll find a way to see it happen. I'm sure we can come up with something that we're all happy with. Again, please add me to your MSN contact lists, thankyou, chat is much easier medium to discuss things with.
Post by: Mog on March 24, 2003, 11:58:34 am
Post by: FPF_TraceyG on March 24, 2003, 12:00:15 pm
Post by: jdmckinney on March 24, 2003, 12:32:36 pm
Seriously, I really just want feedback about what sort of campaign people might like to see as a first "return engagement" to OP from the SFCX team. ToW is down the road quite a long way. While testing the new kit is a prime concern, I want to see an OP campaign people can have fun with. Castrin has said Badlands will return as a non-VC server on OP. I think that may help serve as a testbed. Most of all, I'd like to see if a decent, if scaled back, OP campaign can survive under the new kit. I think it can, but before we pull out all the stops, a first run needs to happen.
I understand from Moggy that the player base really can't handle more than one big campaign at a time. While I hope that doesn't remain the case for too much longer, I know it means there will need to be some give-and-take to keep everyone somewhat approaching happy. I endorse any scheduling effort made, but I do want OP to be a part of the plan, and not an ugly cousin. It has the potential to be great, and I think the people who shelled out for OP and got shafted the past year and a half deserve a place to play. Let's work together to get the best possible playerbase we can for both platforms.
Post by: ZTempest on March 24, 2003, 12:43:43 pm
SFCX was founded on a basis of cooperation and goodwill -- we support all three games, incidently. We have even ran two major SFC3 campaigns (Assimilation and Praxis Redux) and have a presence in the D3 as well as the OP and EAW D2.
There is no wish to undercut anybody or any campaign in this game we all play, but as Doug said, many players shelled out money for OP, and they have been deprived of a decent place to play for over a year now. It is time to see if we can finally unleash some of these great plans we have on the burners.
And Tracey, I would like to also state that although I am a minor member of SFCX (I do planning, storyline, and some other stuff -- I don't run any of our servers) if you need something or think I can assist you or your group with an issue, feel free to contact me. I can't add you to my contact list either (my wife is INCREDIBLY jealous, and Koreans can have a nasty temper LOL
) but I can be contacted through any of the SFCX guys or here.Regards,
Zach
"Tempest"
Post by: Maxillius on March 24, 2003, 12:50:45 pm
Post by: FireSoul on March 24, 2003, 01:59:44 pm
Post by: Kroma_BaSyl on March 24, 2003, 02:06:10 pm
Quote:
http://klingon.stasis.ca/OP_plusrefit/
thx, can't wait to give it a spin.
Post by: FireSoul on March 24, 2003, 02:20:12 pm
Quote:Quote:
http://klingon.stasis.ca/OP_plusrefit/
thx, can't wait to give it a spin.
You'll like it. It contains the entire original shiplist, except for some adjustments or fixes, then some additional 1205 (or so) ships from SFB..
.. best way to describe it:
1- you have to relearn the shiplist. The cheese you knew isn't so cheesy anymore.
2- the game sudden gets that new car smell again.
3- sometimes, I think I've changed the basic hardware requirements of the game.
-- Luc
Post by: jdmckinney on March 24, 2003, 03:05:19 pm
Now, back on topic, people still seem to want a fairly full-fledged VC campaign with teams, the OP+ list, and a combination of missions. Does anyone have a preference for teams (empires only)? I'm thinking a 3-team setup would be nice, splitting it so that each team has one drone and one plasma race, but then where do the Hydrans and Lyrans go? Frank opinions are welcomed, but don't expect the SFCX crew to follow the majority rule.
Also, it now looks as if Tempest, Mog, and Emerald Edge will be leading the charge to come up with a campaign design for our first full effort under the new patch. Castrin, Capt. Stumpy, Can-able, and I will all have our say, but those three guys seem to be putting forth the most effort right now. I'll leave it to Tempest to fill you all in when we have a story to tell.
Post by: Dizzy on March 24, 2003, 03:40:00 pm
Quote:
Also, it now looks as if Tempest, Mog, and Emerald Edge will be leading the charge to come up with a campaign design for our first full effort under the new patch. Castrin, Capt. Stumpy, Can-able, and I will all have our say, but those three guys seem to be putting forth the most effort right now. I'll leave it to Tempest to fill you all in when we have a story to tell.
If the DV issue is sorted, like I said, thats the only real issue from me not doing SG3 on OP.
You guys have that fixed, then SG3 will be ready to go when DOE is over.
Course, I expect this idea to be certainly rejected because of the strangle hold sfcx seems to exhibit over OP D2. Why let anyone else (especially me) on your turf?
Its just such a clean exit for me, but I'd wager you wouldn't allow me the dignity to leave like this...
Oh and to sweeten the deal, how about I turn the whole project over to you guys? It's about done. I just need to do a few more things and it'll be finished.
Ahhh, and to sweeten the deal even further, I'll just kinda fade away into space never to be seen again? Eh... sounding better?
In fact, you'll never hear another stfu again.
How's that sound?
Post by: Mog on March 24, 2003, 04:00:10 pm
Post by: jdmckinney on March 24, 2003, 04:07:22 pm
If other admins like you come back to the OP fold, then we wouldn't be hard pressed to push something out just to fill the void. By all means, take center stage. We have other things to do. But, that doesn't mean we won't put up campaigns just because you get your shorts in a bunch.
Really Diz, why do you seem to feel like we're all out to get you? Personally, I think you're quite valuable to the community, even if you leave a poor taste in most people's mouths.
Why don't you ask Taldren or a tester to get you the test server kit for 2.5.3.8? Then you can evaluate it for yourself while you still have time to change gears to OP.
Post by: Can-able on March 24, 2003, 04:26:38 pm
Stop taking Amphetamines they screw ya mind , make ya Paranoid !!!! Trust me i am a Doctor !!!
Post by: Cleaven on March 24, 2003, 04:29:47 pm
Post by: jdmckinney on March 24, 2003, 04:36:07 pm
In short, it handles DVs much better, and does not seem to have nearly the amount of problems with the cartel/empire interaction. It may not be perfect, but we can at least see hexes boosting when they should and empires not actually hurting themselves when the cartel layer is neutral under their space.
Try it out.
Post by: kosh2000 on March 24, 2003, 04:38:26 pm
Post by: Corbomite on March 24, 2003, 05:16:25 pm
Quote:
Ahhh, and to sweeten the deal even further, I'll just kinda fade away into space never to be seen again? Eh... sounding better?
In fact, you'll never hear another stfu again.
How's that sound?
OMG!! Everyone's fondest dream come true? Wait, let me call Brezgonne, he won't want to miss this!
Post by: Cleaven on March 24, 2003, 05:41:59 pm
Quote:
Cleaven, have you been on the SFCX test server under 2.5.3.8?
In short, it handles DVs much better, and does not seem to have nearly the amount of problems with the cartel/empire interaction. It may not be perfect, but we can at least see hexes boosting when they should and empires not actually hurting themselves when the cartel layer is neutral under their space.
Try it out.
No I haven't yet. Still going through the single player (EAW) campaigns just to (re)familiarise myself with the OP+ shiplist and the stock OP missions. I can see that the interactions in single player campaign mode are still terrible, but this probably has no real significance on how the D2 would behave, so I will get on that test server soon. I am also hoping that the shiplist will change over to OP+ sooner rather than later. It's not that I don't know how to change shiplists, it's just that given the choice I would rather stick with the current one I'm using, and wait for the mountain to come to Muhammad.
Post by: CptCastrin on March 24, 2003, 05:47:37 pm
Quote:
Course, I expect this idea to be certainly rejected because of the strangle hold sfcx seems to exhibit over OP D2. Why let anyone else (especially me) on your turf?
We have no more a strangle hold on SFC:OP then SFC2.net has on EaW ... unless you'd like to comment on that?
Your running SG3 in OP has no impact on us save that we will plan around it ... with your input or just winging it. We're here to run campaigns and have fun, the more the marrier.
If you run SG3 in OP I'll be glad, hell I'd welcome it openly, just like I did when you announced it for EaW. Whether it's in OP or EaW is totally up to you Diz.
Post by: Dizzy on March 24, 2003, 07:07:37 pm
Quote:
Dizzy
Stop taking Amphetamines they screw ya mind , make ya Paranoid !!!! Trust me i am a Doctor !!!
It's not that, canable...
Quote:
Really Diz, why do you seem to feel like we're all out to get you? Personally, I think you're quite valuable to the community, even if you leave a poor taste in most people's mouths.
Actually, I kinda do think you are out to get me. Not directly of course, but still. Ever since Rook left and he gave me you and EE the reins to RT3, you guys quickly created an RT3 team and left me out. It just didn't seem to me that you thought of me as 'valuable' to the community back then. Do you know how pissed off I got? I went and hosted SG. Then I just freaked out when some of my ideas ended up in RT3. The irony of it all...
I dont really think you know how much that SG RT3 rift really affected me, do you? It wasn't pretty to see how I was damn good friends with you and EE through all those servers we were on then get the welcome rug yanked out from under me when time came for RT3 development. I felt er still feel betrayed, angered and resentmentful toward you all for that. Recently Castrin and I buried the hatchet, but the wounds still open.
And it felt like round 2 all over again with you opening post about that OP server 'comming soon' poll you have on the opening thread. I guess you never expected a knee-jerk reaction like that from me did you? Well, as the emotion pot boiled over for me after reading that, I never expected to post what I did either. I mean, I feel like you dont really care how the rest of us have been working together to make sure the servers dont overlap and split the player base. I feel like you dont care about how hard Tracey has worked for this community to cement it all together. I feel like if it's my toes you are stepping on then you would go out of your way to step on them.
And especially when you backhand me with comments like, "... even if you leave a poor taste in most people's mouths", doesnt really help anything and goes on to further fan the flames. I feel that when you say things like that, you just further illustrate to me your willingness to invalidate my 'value' to the community and trash all the work I have done not to mention the damage to my reputation.
And I have seriously done a lot of work. Hours and hours and hours and hours I have spent going over SG3 to make sure it fits the current player base and communities wishes like a glove.
After putting all the time into designing this server, I just dont have the heart to go on with it after getting trashed like I did on this thread.
Quote:
Kroma:Quote:
Dizzy and STFU go together like cream in coffee
Don't you mean like stink on sh*t?
I'm just too burned out to handle all of this. Thats why I just want to go away.
Quote:Quote:
Dizzy:
Course, I expect this idea to be certainly rejected because of the strangle hold sfcx seems to exhibit over OP D2. Why let anyone else (especially me) on your turf?
Castrin:
We have no more a strangle hold on SFC:OP then SFC2.net has on EaW ... unless you'd like to comment on that?
Your running SG3 in OP has no impact on us save that we will plan around it ... with your input or just winging it. We're here to run campaigns and have fun, the more the marrier.
If you run SG3 in OP I'll be glad, hell I'd welcome it openly, just like I did when you announced it for EaW. Whether it's in OP or EaW is totally up to you Diz.
Castrin, I think it has been amply stated that the OP crowd will host what they want when they want damn everyone else. To that effect, you will find it litters this thread.
So as for "Your running SG3 in OP has no impact on us save that we will plan around it..." makes me think no matter what I do wether it be to give you SG3 so we satiate the hunger for an OP campaign so that at the same time keep the current server schedule so as not to split the player base or simply shelving the SG3 server so you guys have a slot for your OP idea wont make any difference.
At this point, I have little left in me to fight for the community. I am just too burned out from having to do it last time and this is deja vu all over again.
Post by: CptCastrin on March 24, 2003, 08:15:31 pm
Quote:Quote:Quote:
Dizzy:
Course, I expect this idea to be certainly rejected because of the strangle hold sfcx seems to exhibit over OP D2. Why let anyone else (especially me) on your turf?
Castrin:
We have no more a strangle hold on SFC:OP then SFC2.net has on EaW ... unless you'd like to comment on that?
Your running SG3 in OP has no impact on us save that we will plan around it ... with your input or just winging it. We're here to run campaigns and have fun, the more the marrier.
If you run SG3 in OP I'll be glad, hell I'd welcome it openly, just like I did when you announced it for EaW. Whether it's in OP or EaW is totally up to you Diz.
Castrin, I think it has been amply stated that the OP crowd will host what they want when they want damn everyone else. To that effect, you will find it litters this thread.
So as for "Your running SG3 in OP has no impact on us save that we will plan around it..." makes me think no matter what I do wether it be to give you SG3 so we satiate the hunger for an OP campaign so that at the same time keep the current server schedule so as not to split the player base or simply shelving the SG3 server so you guys have a slot for your OP idea wont make any difference.
At this point, I have little left in me to fight for the community. I am just too burned out from having to do it last time and this is deja vu all over again.
[sigh]
Dizzy, as we have burried the hatchet let me say you have things 180deg around.
The point I made about working around SG3 is this: you have first call IF you are running the server in OP. Plain and simple. If your running it in EaW then I'd expect that you'll hold to the original schedule that Tracy put out. It's a good schedule btw, I just wish some one from SFC2.net had taken a few moments out to contact us. Then again we really don't (or didn't till recently) have anything planed so the point is moot.
Anyway the point is that if you stay with the current schedule then cool. We'll contact Tracy when we're ready to offer something. Right now we've been discussing a non-campaign server just so there is a home on D2 for OP. That still leaves SG3 as the go to campaign currently for OP if you so choose.
As for "taking over" SG3 .. sorry it's your baby not ours. I'd be glad to play on it though.
We wouldn't begin to know what to do with it so the choice is yours, run it or shelve it as you wish. We have nothing serious to offer the OP players right now so it'd be a shame to shelve it though.As for spliting the player base, that's the last thing we wish to do. In fact we've strived to do the oposite but I have to say in all honesty that there are those that I feel would be just as happy to see OP D2 die. I beg you not to feed into that, your better than that. Yeah, maybe we will run something in OP despite the EaW centric schedule but if SG3 moves back to OP then your first up. You have been working on SG3 longest and were first to declair so it's only right you have first crack for a OP campaign.
Sufice it to say that SFCx will strive to fit in to the current schedule as best as possible but there are those that play OP that are now looking for a serious campaign and as we are all here for the players I think that should be taken into account. I'd also like to go over the current schedule with Tracy (or whoever) to see if anything can be done to get an OP server (hopefully SG3) up in shorter order than is now scheduled.
Post by: CptCastrin on March 24, 2003, 08:35:30 pm
http://www.sfcx.org/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&lid=43&ttitle=SFC:OP_Dynaverse_Server_Kit
Try it out.
Post by: jdmckinney on March 24, 2003, 09:09:13 pm
First, Dizzy, nobody usurped Rook's Tavern from you. A number of people, mainly RMs, were told by Rook that he would be stepping away from hosting. Before he made that decision, some people were approached about helping him to design the next RT. Some of these people ended up on the RT3 team, others came into the team other ways. Specifically, Castrin had been hosting a server, and showed not only an interest in continuing the RT tradition, but a willingness to use his own equipment and resources to do so. Max Torps was also considering picking up the RT name. How Castrin inherited it I don't know -- I always thought Max preferred at the time to stick with his own plans, but you'd have to ask Max about that.
Regardless, Castrin ended up with Rook's OK to use the RT name, and some of us joined the team because we wanted RT3 to live up to Rook's reputation for groundbreaking campaigns. We very seriously considered inviting you, Dizzy, to join us. We discussed it looking very frankly at what good you could bring to the team vs. the flame wars that usually got attached to your name, whether you started them or not. In short, you were potentially more trouble than we thought you were worth to the team. Were we wrong? Maybe, but here we see that even after all this time, you hold unfounded grudges, tear into people with no concern for THEIR feelings, and generally attract a negative air to anything associated with you.
I'm sorry if our decision not to include you hurt you that much. I certainly didn't think you were so mortally wounded by it. In fact, I thought when you went on to do Slave Girls that your ideas were great strides forward in campaign design. I didn't agree with all of them, but you were among those admins who were trying new things to make the game better. We all learned from each others' experiments, or at least I hope we did.
I'll say again, and it's true, that I have not paid one bit of attention to the plans for the latest SG server. I had no knowledge of the schedule that people have been talking about. I simply wanted to get feedback from the players on what they might like to see from SFCX on OP, and suddenly the thread degenerated into fits and accusations.
I'll also say again that I would welcome a move to OP for SG. It's where SG started, and I think it should continue there.
For me, I'm only still here to try to make the OP D2 playable, fun, and deep. I think we are approaching the day when that will be true. The rest of the SFCX team shares that goal, that dream. Most, even all, of us would have given up on SFC at one point or another if it had not been for the rest of the group pushing us to keep going, to keep trying to find ways to earn the game the respect it can live up to given a chance.
Dizzy, you are a lightning rod, and that won't ever change. You DO leave a bad taste in some people's mouths, because they can't stomach your style and persona. You invoke bile, and sometimes it's pretty foul. You aren't the first person on these boards to cultivate a reputation for being harsh and even heartless toward others, only to then play the victim when you feel the least bit slighted. I'm sorry if our "snub" hurt you, and still does, but I can't do anything more to make things right with you. Someday you will have to forgive us for it, or you won't. It's your choice. If you want to move forward in goodwill, we will be there with you, despite our differences, for the good of the players and the game. If you prefer to turn your back on us and blame us for an old wound forever, then we can only go our separate ways and pay you no heed. We can't continue to be adversaries, because we just don't hate you that much. So, either we become allies, or we become indifferent towards you. Either way, we will continue to work on campaigns for the players.
Respectfully,
Douglas McKinney
PS to the SFCXers: I'm sorry if I spoke for you out of turn. Feel free to correct me if my reading of the group's feelings on this are wrong. Either way, I speak for myself, and I stand by my words and actions.
Post by: Dizzy on March 24, 2003, 10:09:30 pm
Quote:
I'll be deleting this thread tomorrow morning, because it obviously has become more about Dizzy's problems with me and others than about actually helping the community.
Ya, you should delete this thread. I didnt catch a glimpse of an apology in there anywhere. I knew you wernt man enough to suck it up and say sorry for being a dick.
Quote:
PS to the SFCXers: I'm sorry if I spoke for you out of turn. Feel free to correct me if my reading of the group's feelings on this are wrong. Either way, I speak for myself, and I stand by my words and actions.
Keep your mutt on a tighter leash, Castrin. j/k
Post by: Dizzy on March 24, 2003, 10:19:30 pm
Quote:
Btw Diz, do you have the newer OP server kt? it was just ok'ed for general use by Dave?
Try it out.
It's a sticky issue, Castrin. If JD deletes this thread, I may lose that link
Anyway, I'll chat with Tracey and see what she has to say.
Now that all the mess is over with, that is if JD can control his tongue from here on out, I'd like nothing more than to use OP for the SG3 server. I'd like to have your help, Castrin, to use it as the full blown test server leading up to its launch. I think I may be ready for prime time next week so that would give us lots of time to toy with it. But with the switch to OP, my mission packs would have to change, and I'll need to do the map over...
Regardless of where SG3 ends up, I'd like it to be OP. I always wanted it to be OP. There are so many more things I can do with it if it were on OP!!! And the nebulas are so much more pretty
But if that DV issue is still fubared.. I'll talk to u and Tracey about it in the comming week. We will see.
Post by: Cleaven on March 24, 2003, 10:31:08 pm
Post by: Dizzy on March 24, 2003, 10:32:10 pm
Post by: Kroma_BaSyl on March 24, 2003, 10:38:03 pm
I wasn't even sure you where serious about all this crap (and the whole Tholian thing), but couldn't for the life of me figure out why you were being so hardcore about the whole thing. That is until you explained yourself, and now while I understand you were serious I find it hard to sympathize. One reaps what one sows.
Having gotten to know you a little better corresponding about SG3 I have continued to note your improved attitude as of late, but you have to realize that just because you have decided to clean up your act as of late you can't expect everyone to forget your past just like that. Heck anyone whose tag line is STFU ought to realize that he is going to have a bit of baggage to carry around even if he is truly reformed. It's just going to take a while through continued good behavior before you undo the poor first impressions that have been made.
I for one commend you for trying to mend the fences and think the best thing you could do to undo others impressions of you is to bring out a fun server that is free of flames instigated by you (Let me a DH handle that), Besides the whole idea of being worried about who is going when seems kind of ridiculous considering all the dead time that usually ends up between servers, since they inevitably run in to various delays getting off the ground. Thus I would think that reasonable adults should be able to find a way to get them all scheduled in a timely fashion.
Sleep on it and comeback with a cooler head tomorrow, as I would sure hate to see SG3 sh*t canned cause it is looking to be a way cool server EAW or OP.
Love,
Kroma
PS, If you do leave can I have STFU? I would henceforth then be known as "STFU Kroma".....hmmmm....that doesn't sound as good out loud as it did in my head. Sounds too much like my old ladies pillow talk.
Post by: ZTempest on March 24, 2003, 11:48:16 pm
Quote:
From JDMcKinney's post:
PS to the SFCXers: I'm sorry if I spoke for you out of turn. Feel free to correct me if my reading of the group's feelings on this are wrong. Either way, I speak for myself, and I stand by my words and actions.
I support this post and am in agreement with it. Having been part of the process to some extent (I was also on the RT3 design team), I know a bit about this.
And the "leash" comment, as well as the way you put other comments, Dizzy, was neither needed nor warranted. The "j/k" is not meant, and I recognize that fact. I could care less if I make an enemy of you. Your petty and aimless hatred is not worth considering. So flame away with your inane comments. I could care less. I won't lose any sleep over it at all.
In our group, we are truely friends, and there is no such thing as "putting a leash" on someone for expressing a viewpoint, or for innocently asking the community what they want in an OP server -- a long overdue OP server. This whole thing you have started is a can of worms that has been festering inside of you for a very long time now. Sad that it has to come out into the community in this way. Nomad is a very valuable member of SFCX. Dissing him in the way that you just did is not something to be proud of, and not something that I can stand by and watch without some sort of comment.
I defended you when you had your disagreements with Brezgonne, you know. I even saw your point on some issues. It is too bad that you are so uncompromising on what is essentially a non-issue, and that you appear to bear hatred and discontent for such a long time over an issue that is long past.
Good luck with SG3. I doubt you will see me in there.
Post by: CptCastrin on March 25, 2003, 12:14:51 am
Quote:
Keep your mutt on a tighter leash, Castrin. j/k
Tacky Diz.
Ater thinking about it I have to comment. "j/k" or not this was not called for. SFCx is a team, there are no leashes or "mutts" here, only good friends that have a common bond.
You wonder where the apology is in Doug's post but from what I've read here there are several people that could (maybe should) apologize, you included.
Seems that this thread has lost it's original meaning so I'll welcome it when it is deleted. Too bad really.
Post by: Dizzy on March 25, 2003, 12:59:21 am
Post by: FireSoul on March 25, 2003, 03:22:16 am
I don't want to hear any apologies. I want the matter to be dropped.
Commenting further is pointless.
.. IT'S JUST A GAME. .. and all the work we ALL have done has been for JUST A GAME.
Get some perspective:
I'm currently recovering from stress and depression, away from work.
My father's body can no longer recover from his heart attacks. He visits (via ambulance) the hospital 3 times a week to stabilize him.
My Grandmother is slowly deteriorating via cancer.
My SO, the mother of my month-old son, said this to someone ELSE on irc:
"Sleep well my love..sweet dreams. Ack! 2am...I should go to bed..docs appt tomorrow"
The landlord is coming by with inspectors tomorrow (today). She decided that she's gonna sell the place.
I'm not collecting enough insurance money to pay for rent and eat. I have to beg off of other people.
It's 4:30am.
GET OVER IT.
-- Luc
FireSoul
Post by: Can-able on March 25, 2003, 03:22:27 am
I will be the first then ....I AM SORRY for telling you to STFU
Also i belive you should be the first to say sorry to Doug, espesilly Doug there is not need for the way that you have attacked him.
So please do not verbaly attack my friends, i m very protectve over them
Also thy don't have a lead long enough to keep me under control
And i just want you to know that SFCX is not just the RT3 team, orignalley when we first formed it was the SG2 team and the RT3 team and Kosh as well (He was invited
) So don't blame SFCX, And don't blame the individules, for the past....Becuse i can throw things at you about you actions as well mate.And Dizzy I always belive what you did with SG was amazing......I allways did
I thought you did a grate job in the develpoment.
Post by: jdmckinney on March 25, 2003, 06:32:22 am
Quote:
Ya, you should delete this thread. I didnt catch a glimpse of an apology in there anywhere. I knew you wernt man enough to suck it up and say sorry for being a dick.
Does anyone else find this sad? Dizzy, I suppose you forgot that it was I who most backed your inclusion in the RT3 team. I wouldn't do so today, but I did then. Apologies are for people who've done something wrong, and yet several times I have said I'm sorry here. You, however, persist in treating people like garbage while hypocritically demanding respect, apologies, and for others to "hold their tongue." That last is particularly funny coming from you.
I've done all I can do. The olive branch only reaches so far -- it's your choice to step forward and take it, or to reject it. I think you've made your choice clear.
I think I'll leave the thread up for now, to see if it just quietly dies off. Perhaps before it does, Diz, you should get in the last word. I expect it will be "STFU."