Dynaverse.net

Taldrenites => General Starfleet Command Forum => Topic started by: Braxton_RIP on May 20, 2008, 08:24:16 pm

Title: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Braxton_RIP on May 20, 2008, 08:24:16 pm
I will just open by saying this is probably the post many have been waiting for a long time to see.

I'm proud to officially announce the launching of the Starfleet Command 4 project.  The D.net staff has been working hard setting up the resources, drawing up the paperwork, getting the development machine ready.

The next step is getting the word out to the whole community.  To get the project off the drawing board and into production, we need people: programmers, modelers, artists, campaign designers.  One thing I know not many have thought about, but we also need people with skills in sound design and composition; they would be a huge asset.

If you would like to help out with this project, please fill out the form below and submit it to frey@xenocorp.net. All information is required.  Your name and address will be kept confidential and are only required to send the required paperwork.

The current plans on the table have the project being written in either C++ or C#, so programmers who would like to join the team must be fluent with the C/C++ language.

Name:
Address:
Phone# :

Job (IE: Programmer):
Skills (IE: C++/SQL):

Contact Email:

MSN Messenger (If applicable):

Please include a piece of sample of your work as an attachment.


Applications will be accepted indefinitely, but to get in on the initial development stages, please have your application submitted by May 31st.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FA Frey XC on May 20, 2008, 08:33:33 pm
Please note that anyone doing any work will be required to sign:

1.) An NDA
2.) A non-compete agreement

and will release any intellectual property rights to their code, artwork, or anything else contributed to the Dynaverse Gaming Association.

This is standard stuff if your a dev in a company, which the DGA is.

:D

and before anyone goes ballistic or gets crazy - this will be released without a single CHARGE. Once it's done, we'll be releasing it to the community for no cost.

Now, if you get so happy you want to make a donation to help out, by all means, you should know where the link is ;) but I'm not going to post it here because that's not what this is about.

WOOT!!!!!
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: NuclearWessels on May 20, 2008, 09:18:39 pm

<does best Arnold Horshak voice>

Oooh ooooh ooooh!!!!  Me!   Me!!  Me!!!

 ;)

dave
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Czar Mohab on May 20, 2008, 09:50:44 pm
 First off,  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

OK, got that happy out of the way...

Other than monetarily, I don't know what I can do to contribute. I really want to... So...

Do you have need of story editing? Someone who can catch your mushy grammar, dot your "i"'s and cross your "t"'s?

Czar "Please be Vista compatible," Mohab

Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FPF-Paladin on May 20, 2008, 10:15:19 pm
 :o

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG YAY

Okay, needed to get that out of my system.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FPF-DieHard on May 20, 2008, 10:26:17 pm
Is there any broad information available that can be disclosed?  IE, is this an SFB-based game or SFC3ish?

Please say SFB   ;D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FA Frey XC on May 20, 2008, 10:28:09 pm
Well, Lepton, I'll drop this little nuke as well:

Rick Knox, remember him?

He's joined the team. Him and possibly another individual who did work for Armada I & II.

They're already talking about updating the graphic engine to something much more recent.

There's a reason we're doing SFC4, other people are doing Bridgecommander 2, etc... and that is because they are different games.

So, please, can't you just show some type of positive support for the Community? Or is that just beyond you?

Regards,
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FA Frey XC on May 20, 2008, 10:29:44 pm
Is there any broad information available that can be disclosed?  IE, is this an SFB-based game or SFC3ish?

It will continue in the SFC1 / EAW / OP with a SFC3 interface available if the end user wishes it. So, you'll have a SFC3 UI if you really want it, but can go to "advanced tactical mode" and run the EAW / OP style interface with full control over everything.

The game will be extremely mod friendly.

Look for a much more indepth "press release" here in a few days.

Regards,
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on May 20, 2008, 10:33:05 pm
  Awesome to hear, now when my programming skills get better, maybe I will try and jump aboard.  Until then, I shall Woot you on.
 :woot: :woot:
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Pestalence_XC on May 20, 2008, 10:37:11 pm
We are all going to work hard to make the Best damn tactical simulator that the Trek Universe has to offer with the technology we have today.

We are doing it with both community members and professional help.

This thread is an open invite for those of you with skillz.. Just send in your application in accordance with the first posting.

As I have stated all over the web.. D.Net has great things to come and we have several projects in the works.. this is just the big project for you.

Thanks for your support everyone. Long live Starfleet Command !
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FPF-DieHard on May 20, 2008, 11:00:54 pm
We are all going to work hard to make the Best damn tactical simulator that the Trek Universe has to offer with the technology we have today.


Then either completely embrace SFB fully or totally abandon it.  No SFC3 half-assedness 
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FA Frey XC on May 20, 2008, 11:17:54 pm
Starfleet Command 4 will continue to utilize the methodology that made the SFC series of games one of the best selling Star Trek games ever.

SFB provides the perfect background framework to handle the combat stuff, management, etc. IN regards to the GUI, we're going to offer the SFC3 style UI OR the EAW / OP UI.

Bottom line. It's the GUI. Please read the posts and don't start a SFB or nuthin crusade when we've just announced that we're going to do this.

Regards,
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: busta191 on May 20, 2008, 11:30:09 pm
Will SFC4 require SFC2 or SFC3 installed to use?
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Pestalence_XC on May 20, 2008, 11:37:16 pm
SFC 4 will be a stand alone production and will not require EAW, OP or SFC 3 installed to play.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on May 20, 2008, 11:44:45 pm
Can I make one suggestion for an add to the game.

Can you have the game set up sub=directories for different servers for saving the shiplist, ftrlist, and special files.  That way you would get rid of the need to back out and run mod-chooser to change servers.

Then have the server when checking to see if the files that are needed are there, if found that you don't have them (first time on server) have it be able to download those the files needed.  Would just be an easier way for people to get onto servers and to have more special servers without the hassels.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Pestalence_XC on May 20, 2008, 11:56:03 pm
That is one of the Ideas that I was having as well.. as Frey said.. the game will be highly modifiable, and as such, that would definitely be a feature we will look into. I'm not sure of how much of the functionality you are asking for that we can put in.. but we will check it out.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on May 21, 2008, 12:04:52 am
That is one of the Ideas that I was having as well.. as Frey said.. the game will be highly modifiable, and as such, that would definitely be a feature we will look into. I'm not sure of how much of the functionality you are asking for that we can put in.. but we will check it out.

It should be fairly straight forward.  Use the game directory as an override of the main files.  Thus if it is in the subdirectory, it would be used over the general one. 

The file passing should be mostly easy and not take to much time as the main files changed would be shiplist and ftrlist (both small).  But depending on how you modify the game for Moding you could have a few extra files to pass also.

Looking forward to any news, and heck if 20 year old programming skills are needed give me a yell.  My last program I worked on was under Dos (but it was C++ at least), even had to do the windows style stuff by hand.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on May 21, 2008, 12:12:52 am
I have an interesting question.. What new things will work with the other SFC games, Will SFCers be able to access the q3files? and other files that were denied access too?

Well, Q3 is half broken out now, just need to get the image files to work out and that would be modifiable.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: KBF-Crim on May 21, 2008, 12:18:32 am
You magnificent bastards!

If I dont make the testing team...I'm going on a thread locking binge... ;D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on May 21, 2008, 12:48:31 am
Other question that comes to mind, is the code going to be written so it is cross-platform (linux/mac/windows) natively so that only one source would be needed to be maintained (that is if you guys are planning on porting to other platforms to open the user base alittle more)?

Or Windows based with possible porting at a later date (or just windows).

(not a person who ports games, but know that it would be easier if planned for in the beginning).
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Rod ONeal on May 21, 2008, 02:58:25 am
Great news!!! Here's to hoping that the best plans come to fruition. (http://home.insightbb.com/~tetsujin/icons/beer2.gif)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on May 21, 2008, 04:53:11 am
I know this is a stupid question, but is this really for real???  I'm not calling anybody a liar, but this sounds too good to be true.

 If it id true, I will be whipping out my check book, to do my part. ( No BS)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Metalien_XC on May 21, 2008, 05:25:37 am
I think I just made a mess in my pants...  :woot:
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FA Frey XC on May 21, 2008, 05:50:53 am
I know this is a stupid question, but is this really for real???  I'm not calling anybody a liar, but this sounds too good to be true.

 If it id true, I will be whipping out my check book, to do my part. ( No BS)

Just hold on to that checkbook, but yes, this is REALLY for real.

Like I said, we'll be making the "press release" soon.

Regards,
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Corbomite on May 21, 2008, 06:06:32 am
Well this is great news! I wish I could help with the nuts and bolts of production, but I have no "skillz" in computer programming. My strengths lie in organization and concept design. I would like to sign up for the testing team if possible and if you guys need a very game knowledgeable person to create/maintain production goals and manage all the departments, I'd be honored to do it.

Frey, can I start a thread to list all the changes/fixes and additions people want to see?

Again, tremendous news!  :)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Centurus on May 21, 2008, 06:29:54 am
If the shiplists are going to be structured more on the SFC3 system, as well as the hardpointing, then I'll be able to spec and hardpoint just about anything you need.  If the hardpointing and shiplist structure is going to be more SFC2/OP, then I don't think I'm gonna be much help since I still can't properly HP for SFC1/2/OP.

Will the SFC4 project have a ship refit system similar to SFC3, or not?
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FPF-DieHard on May 21, 2008, 07:50:33 am
Starfleet Command 4 will continue to utilize the methodology that made the SFC series of games one of the best selling Star Trek games ever.

SFB provides the perfect background framework to handle the combat stuff, management, etc. IN regards to the GUI, we're going to offer the SFC3 style UI OR the EAW / OP UI.

Bottom line. It's the GUI. Please read the posts and don't start a SFB or nuthin crusade when we've just announced that we're going to do this.

Regards,

I'm not starting an SFB or nuthin crusade, I think it totally possible to make a great ST combat game that has nothing to do with SFB.   It's just that SFC3 (out of the box, some of the mods were actually pretty cool) wasn't it.  That's what I meant but embrace SFB or totally abandon SFB.  Taldren developed themselves into a corner by leaving in a lot of SFB element while taking away others that made the whole system "work."

There's a lot more to it than the GUI.   EW versus Angular velocity, how does the Cloak work, attrition units, seeking weapons, 4 shields versus 6, etc . . .  Starship Customization never sat well with me either, this is a Military Naval simulation, not "Pimp my Ride."  Starship CONVERSION however would be really cool!    Imagine buying an F-NCL and getting it converted to whatever variant you could afford after X amount of time.

The best bet, IMHO, is leave the game moddable enough so a server admin can make the call.

Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: S'Raek on May 21, 2008, 08:11:32 am
I know nothing about programing, but I'm an admin/personnel kind of guy in the Navy so if you need any help with that let me know.  Doubt you will but just in case.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: AcePylut on May 21, 2008, 08:16:30 am
I'd love to help, but I have zero programming skills.

I can help test it though!
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Raven Night on May 21, 2008, 08:26:42 am
I will be retiring from Nightsoft in a few months. I would be happy to assist in the design of the game, including ship designs and meshes. Just let me know if you would like my help.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: KBFLordKrueg on May 21, 2008, 09:51:07 am
I'd love to help, but I have zero programming skills.

I can help test it though!

Same here...whatever I may contribute... ;D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: KHH Jakle on May 21, 2008, 10:15:33 am
Glad I stumbled in here today...  :o

Need a PMI certified Project Manager (PMP)?  ;)

I kid, I kid...I'll be eagerly surfing the forums going forward.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: wulf111 on May 21, 2008, 01:53:05 pm
I'd love to help, but I have zero programming skills.

I can help test it though!

Same here...whatever I may contribute... ;D


i will do what ever i can to help as well ... 


i have one question, will it have true 3D ship movement or will it still be in a 2D plane (please say 3D)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: KBF-Kapact on May 21, 2008, 01:56:00 pm
I'd love to help, but I have zero programming skills.

I can help test it though!

Same here...whatever I may contribute... ;D



and same here. No programming skills (yet!) but I am an experienced writer.....


Kapact
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Age on May 21, 2008, 02:02:32 pm
Starfleet Command 4 will continue to utilize the methodology that made the SFC series of games one of the best selling Star Trek games ever.

SFB provides the perfect background framework to handle the combat stuff, management, etc. IN regards to the GUI, we're going to offer the SFC3 style UI OR the EAW / OP UI.

Bottom line. It's the GUI. Please read the posts and don't start a SFB or nuthin crusade when we've just announced that we're going to do this.

Regards,
I wouldn't mind a bit of both of SFC3 and SFC2 and officers would be nice addition as well possibly refit in the era of when the ships come out.It would be nice as well to se it in windows format so you can minimise/maximise the screen or even close it.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on May 21, 2008, 02:08:24 pm
Starfleet Command 4 will continue to utilize the methodology that made the SFC series of games one of the best selling Star Trek games ever.

SFB provides the perfect background framework to handle the combat stuff, management, etc. IN regards to the GUI, we're going to offer the SFC3 style UI OR the EAW / OP UI.

Bottom line. It's the GUI. Please read the posts and don't start a SFB or nuthin crusade when we've just announced that we're going to do this.

Regards,

I have to agree the fully moding a ship wasn't a strong suit for me.  But being able to get the refits and conversions without having to buy a whole new ahip and selling the old would be nice.

But then depending on how complicated you want your code you could set a server side switch to pick SFC2/OP style or SFC3 style (as how ships are handlled for modifing).  It would add alot of code and testing, but would include more players under it's belt.  And who knows, with a new way of running, maybe both sides of this would like the others for a server or two (specially if you don't have to load different programs)

Quote from: FPF-DieHard
I'm not starting an SFB or nuthin crusade, I think it totally possible to make a great ST combat game that has nothing to do with SFB.   It's just that SFC3 (out of the box, some of the mods were actually pretty cool) wasn't it.  That's what I meant but embrace SFB or totally abandon SFB.  Taldren developed themselves into a corner by leaving in a lot of SFB element while taking away others that made the whole system "work."

There's a lot more to it than the GUI.   EW versus Angular velocity, how does the Cloak work, attrition units, seeking weapons, 4 shields versus 6, etc . . .  Starship Customization never sat well with me either, this is a Military Naval simulation, not "Pimp my Ride."  Starship CONVERSION however would be really cool!    Imagine buying an F-NCL and getting it converted to whatever variant you could afford after X amount of time.

The best bet, IMHO, is leave the game moddable enough so a server admin can make the call.

Modified to fix quotes
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on May 21, 2008, 02:21:37 pm
Starfleet Command 4 will continue to utilize the methodology that made the SFC series of games one of the best selling Star Trek games ever.

SFB provides the perfect background framework to handle the combat stuff, management, etc. IN regards to the GUI, we're going to offer the SFC3 style UI OR the EAW / OP UI.

Bottom line. It's the GUI. Please read the posts and don't start a SFB or nuthin crusade when we've just announced that we're going to do this.

Regards,
I wouldn't mind a bit of both of SFC3 and SFC2 and officers would be nice addition as well possibly refit in the era of when the ships come out.It would be nice as well to se it in windows format so you can minimise/maximise the screen or even close it.

Now adding crew and officer experience (that gets lost when you transfer ships, would give a bonus to those who stick with one ship for a long time.  As you work up to legendary officers, and expert crew.  If you refit or convert you get to keep them, but you change ships, you get a new crew with that ship.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Sten on May 21, 2008, 02:29:09 pm
Great googly moogly. Time to plot shoving Hex out an air lock.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Centurus on May 21, 2008, 03:16:43 pm
Starfleet Command 4 will continue to utilize the methodology that made the SFC series of games one of the best selling Star Trek games ever.

SFB provides the perfect background framework to handle the combat stuff, management, etc. IN regards to the GUI, we're going to offer the SFC3 style UI OR the EAW / OP UI.

Bottom line. It's the GUI. Please read the posts and don't start a SFB or nuthin crusade when we've just announced that we're going to do this.

Regards,
I wouldn't mind a bit of both of SFC3 and SFC2 and officers would be nice addition as well possibly refit in the era of when the ships come out.It would be nice as well to se it in windows format so you can minimise/maximise the screen or even close it.

I like the way you think.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Centurus on May 21, 2008, 03:20:47 pm
Starfleet Command 4 will continue to utilize the methodology that made the SFC series of games one of the best selling Star Trek games ever.

SFB provides the perfect background framework to handle the combat stuff, management, etc. IN regards to the GUI, we're going to offer the SFC3 style UI OR the EAW / OP UI.

Bottom line. It's the GUI. Please read the posts and don't start a SFB or nuthin crusade when we've just announced that we're going to do this.

Regards,

I have to agree the fully moding a ship wasn't a strong suit for me.  But being able to get the refits and conversions without having to buy a whole new ahip and selling the old would be nice.

But then depending on how complicated you want your code you could set a server side switch to pick SFC2/OP style or SFC3 style (as how ships are handlled for modifing).  It would add alot of code and testing, but would include more players under it's belt.  And who knows, with a new way of running, maybe both sides of this would like the others for a server or two (specially if you don't have to load different programs)


Ooohhhh, I like that alot.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Kinneas on May 21, 2008, 04:48:24 pm
My heart has skipped a beat and I have been jumping for joy!

What a dream team you are gathering.

I can not wait to learn more and to help spread the great news. I hope you will consider us for press releases and interviews, etc.

-BEST OF LUCK!  GODSPEED !

(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2353/stoned111005nomorepowtn3.jpg)

SFC, EAW, OP   vs   SFC3
(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/6915/stoned111005phaserloudmhw6.jpg)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Cpt. Chaos on May 21, 2008, 04:56:00 pm
SFB purist (Commander's Edition II) here,

Not to be negative or anything, but what's the legal/licensing status?  'Under-the-radar' abandonware?  Some kind of 'grandfathering' or extension clause of the previous license?  Some kind of o.k. from You Know Who in La La Land (official, verbal, or otherwise?)  How much of this is now in the public domain, how much do you own outright, etc.

Wishlist:

Call me a moron, but I never could get my numeric keypad to properly manipulate my shields, etc.  Better keyboard controls, and even the ability to remap every (really every) function.

I'd even vote for a hex-grid and 32 impulses, should anyone get real ambitious with this...

Chaos
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Pestalence_XC on May 21, 2008, 05:13:58 pm
SFB purist (Commander's Edition II) here,

Not to be negative or anything, but what's the legal/licensing status? 'Under-the-radar' abandonware? Some kind of 'grandfathering' or extension clause of the previous license? Some kind of o.k. from You Know Who in La La Land (official, verbal, or otherwise?) How much of this is now in the public domain, how much do you own outright, etc.
Thank you for your inquiry in regards to the licensing for Starfleet Command 4.

Please contact Frey Petermeier at the following email:

frey@xenocorp.net

in regards to your question.

Thank you.


Quote
Wishlist:

Call me a moron, but I never could get my numeric keypad to properly manipulate my shields, etc. Better keyboard controls, and even the ability to remap every (really every) function.

I'd even vote for a hex-grid and 32 impulses, should anyone get real ambitious with this...

Chaos

As for your keypad.. First you have to launch your game from the correct EXE game file..

SFC 1 - Starfleet.exe

SFC 2 : EAW - Starfleet2.exe

SFC 2 : OP - StarfleetOP.exe

SFC3 - SFC3.exe

Keypads will have to be mapped in the Options Menu and make sure your numeric pad is locked for numbers.

Other than that the keypad should work correctly.. Running the game from the wrong EXE file will introduce bugs that have been fixed in the EXE files listed above.

It also depends on the OS you are running.. In Vista.. there are many things to do for a proper install.. XP is pretty easy.. main thing on any system is to not install or patch game with Anti-Virus running.. most AV systems will corrupt the game files.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on May 21, 2008, 05:33:41 pm
I know this is a stupid question, but is this really for real???  I'm not calling anybody a liar, but this sounds too good to be true.

 If it id true, I will be whipping out my check book, to do my part. ( No BS)

Just hold on to that checkbook, but yes, this is REALLY for real.

Like I said, we'll be making the "press release" soon.

Regards,

 Frey you are a god!!!!!! :) :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: You don't know how long I have been wishing for this.

 Just let me know when to chip in my part. :)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on May 21, 2008, 05:41:15 pm
I agree with Lot of you refits, and officers, are a must!!!  It gives the game more depth. And gives you something to strive for, other than just blowing things up.

 Also a side game like in SFB1 would be excellent. Where you get recruited into special units, would also be out standing.

 It gives you a sense of accomplishment, and really gives the game depth.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: RazalYllib on May 21, 2008, 05:42:05 pm
Biggest w00t in a while !

I want my plasma bolts
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Tethys on May 21, 2008, 05:48:08 pm
I am a skilled artist I can provide ship designs/schematics i will be emailing u shortly with a few hand drawn and mspaint drawn samples, however i have no skill at all doing renders/3dmodeling and that sort of thing. i love star trek woot! XD
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Sandman3D on May 21, 2008, 05:58:58 pm
Well, once i get a modelling program again, i can help...this sounds like what we've been waiting for ;D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Walleye on May 21, 2008, 07:14:56 pm
I am so happy to hear this news I'm gonna dig out my freaking red shirt and wear it to work tomorrow!!

I wish you all well on this project and can't wait to see what becomes of it.

Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: AoS on May 21, 2008, 09:26:14 pm
I can't say I have any major skills to contribute, but I am a quick study, and good with cleaning up typos and the like. :)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Commander La'ra on May 21, 2008, 10:50:29 pm
I've worked as a journalist, and I'm a fiction writer.

If either is any use, send me a PM.

Oh...and I can deal Texas Hold 'Em and Omaha. ;D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Soreyes on May 22, 2008, 02:27:23 am
Getting my check book out ;D

This is great news.  I also like the Idea of  refits, and officers. OMG  My Z-DWD with Legendary Officers and Crew. Just think of the Hate, Hell, and Discontent I could cause Deep Striking ;D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on May 22, 2008, 02:38:18 am
I wonder how much of the officer system is still in SFC:EAW from SFC1?  It might not be that hard to bring back online in the game.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: I, Mudd. on May 22, 2008, 04:36:21 am
If ya need another modeler, gimmie a shout ...

JM.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on May 22, 2008, 05:03:43 am
Going to give a push this weekend to see if I can finish up the Q3 breakout (still working on the graphic format).  It is about the most I can do ATM.  But willing to analyse other code areas or files to see if I can break them out also.

Maybe just a janitor right now, but an Electronic Warfare Analyst still rests in my heart (and a programmer is sleeping in there too).
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Cyberkada on May 22, 2008, 05:50:03 am
Where do I sign up?

I already am working on a SFC4/ B5Wars type project.  Strip out the Babylon 5 stuff, add SFC resources and off we go.

See screenshots in the OP forum and in other games.

The Q3 breakout?  We can develop similar graphics with a new-tech engine, and reverse-engine SFB once again.  Programming is not the hard...

Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on May 22, 2008, 07:00:12 am
Where do I sign up?

I already am working on a SFC4/ B5Wars type project.  Strip out the Babylon 5 stuff, add SFC resources and off we go.

See screenshots in the OP forum and in other games.

The Q3 breakout?  We can develop similar graphics with a new-tech engine, and reverse-engine SFB once again.  Programming is not the hard...



SFC4 from my understanding isn't going to be a work from the ground up.  So the Q3 file will probably still be needed.  The main thing is why write your own code to do the Q3 stuff when it is there are works.  Write your own and you start a large debugging project to make sure it works perfect.

Only trouble with the Q3 is the format of the sprite data, header is readable but not in a format of any normal image file, and me not a graphics guy makes it a fun excercise, sort of like doing this. .  :banghead:
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on May 22, 2008, 07:02:36 am
missing Bonk, we progressed quickly when we were bouncing ideas off each other.  Hoping things work out for him in RL.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Cyberkada on May 22, 2008, 08:13:59 am
The reason why is core graphics and what not (GUIs) need updating for 2008.  Particle effects, lighting, bump and other specular mapping and so on.   If that can be coded (add a script interface for dynamic GUIs and missions - like LUA?), rewrite or improve client-server gaming with zonal servers running SQL (I'm aware or the SQL DB projects).  Just some suggestions.  I'm more than willing to write code for this (it won't interfere with my mobile and console development works)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Centurus on May 22, 2008, 08:48:37 am
If SFC4 is going to use the already established MOD format for the ship models, which is a safe bet since we're all familiar with the format, and it allows ships already in existence to just be put into the game, then specular and bump mapping won't really work.

If the graphics engine is updated enough, bump mapping, or a work around to achieve similar effects, could work.  However, the MOD format for models doesn't support specular mapping.  A new model format would have to be adopted or created to take advantage of specular maps.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: ThunderBallz on May 22, 2008, 09:48:52 am
Cant wait,,Peace
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: [UFP]Exeter on May 22, 2008, 11:10:52 am
I am interested in helping, but would like more information.  Currently I was planning my own game based upons sfc3, so seems like this may be more productive.

I have been a programmer for over 30 years.  I have developed programs in c++, though my current environment is Java.  I have recently started to refresh my skills in C++.  Me development environment of choice has been Borland for many years.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Pestalence_XC on May 22, 2008, 11:24:50 am
Shoot Braxton an Email with your information and questions in regards to the First post in this thread .. I am sure he or one of our staff will be able to answer your questions.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on May 22, 2008, 01:35:57 pm
If SFC4 is going to use the already established MOD format for the ship models, which is a safe bet since we're all familiar with the format, and it allows ships already in existence to just be put into the game, then specular and bump mapping won't really work.

If the graphics engine is updated enough, bump mapping, or a work around to achieve similar effects, could work.  However, the MOD format for models doesn't support specular mapping.  A new model format would have to be adopted or created to take advantage of specular maps.

That was a offshoot of a question I had come up to me.  What format is the ship data going to be in.  I figure MOD is a given, but could another format be added to make modding cheaper for us who can't afford the price of the tools.

With C++ classes it should be not much of a problem to add formats and keep 90% or more of the code the same.  Just add into a class that would handle the ships so a call to display a ship doesn't care what format it is in, the class would take care of it.  Seting it up that way (not sure how the original is set up but if you are updating the graphics it would make since to do this) you can add new graphic formats when needed to keep current with what is being made by the modders out there.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Tethys on May 22, 2008, 02:03:37 pm
does anyone know what the era will be? i mean i dont think this Q. has been asked (pardon the pun :P ) but will it be Ent era? or all eras and possibly an extended future timeline as seen in Ent? awaiting eagerly with anticipation.

Tethys
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Tethys on May 22, 2008, 02:13:32 pm
btw ent isnt exactly the 'best' era to focus on. i fear if you base it solely around the ent era you might not get the feedback you are hoping. however if including all eras you may find a happier crowd on ur hands :)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Centurus on May 22, 2008, 02:15:57 pm
btw ent isnt exactly the 'best' era to focus on. i fear if you base it solely around the ent era you might not get the feedback you are hoping. however if including all eras you may find a happier crowd on ur hands :)

I don't think that'll be a problem.  More than likely if SFC4 is gonna focus on any one particular era, it'll probably be focused more on TMP.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: TheDestroyer on May 22, 2008, 03:29:38 pm
I'm not much of a game programmer...
I'm not much of a graphics artist...
I'm not much of a grammar checker...

I'm one heck of a game breaker

I can get an official website going if you want it. just need a domain ($7/year from 1&1) and I will provide hosting until the site expands to the point where it goes beyond my web hosting package's capabilities.

I can set up and manipulate phpBB 2 and 3 forums, as well as Drupal with precision because I have a tone of experience in those areas

I can provide public relations if necessary.

I can spread the word through many star wars communities (huge communities).

I am TheDestroyer, hear me roar. If you want my help just send an e-mail to me. thedestroyer@swdroids.com

I've never talked like that ^^ before :P.

-TheDestroyer, leader of clan N-MOO and ameteur website programmer.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Pestalence_XC on May 22, 2008, 04:12:14 pm
I'm not much of a game programmer...
I'm not much of a graphics artist...
I'm not much of a grammar checker...

I'm one heck of a game breaker

I can get an official website going if you want it. just need a domain ($7/year from 1&1) and I will provide hosting until the site expands to the point where it goes beyond my web hosting package's capabilities.

I can set up and manipulate phpBB 2 and 3 forums, as well as Drupal with precision because I have a tone of experience in those areas

I can provide public relations if necessary.

I can spread the word through many star wars communities (huge communities).

I am TheDestroyer, hear me roar. If you want my help just send an e-mail to me. thedestroyer@swdroids.com

I've never talked like that ^^ before :P.

-TheDestroyer, leader of clan N-MOO and ameteur website programmer.

Dynaverse.Net is the Official site as well as the Dynaverse Gamers Association site which is a branch of Dynaverse.net.. the sites are covered.. as well as developers forums on these boards here.

Spreading the word would be fantastic.. just copy the first and second post on this thread and direct people to this forum board.

As for game breakers.. there is a section set up on these boards for Public Beta testing and everyone will be welcome to test their heart out as different builds are released to the Dynaverse.net Forum
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on May 22, 2008, 05:59:25 pm
I'm not much of a game programmer...
I'm not much of a graphics artist...
I'm not much of a grammar checker...

I'm one heck of a game breaker

I can get an official website going if you want it. just need a domain ($7/year from 1&1) and I will provide hosting until the site expands to the point where it goes beyond my web hosting package's capabilities.

I can set up and manipulate phpBB 2 and 3 forums, as well as Drupal with precision because I have a tone of experience in those areas

I can provide public relations if necessary.

I can spread the word through many star wars communities (huge communities).

I am TheDestroyer, hear me roar. If you want my help just send an e-mail to me. thedestroyer@swdroids.com

I've never talked like that ^^ before :P.

-TheDestroyer, leader of clan N-MOO and ameteur website programmer.

Dynaverse.Net is the Official site as well as the Dynaverse Gamers Association site which is a branch of Dynaverse.net.. the sites are covered.. as well as developers forums on these boards here.

Spreading the word would be fantastic.. just copy the first and second post on this thread and direct people to this forum board.

As for game breakers.. there is a section set up on these boards for Public Beta testing and everyone will be welcome to test their heart out as different builds are released to the Dynaverse.net Forum


 Send the word out and I would love to Beta test.

 Q`ap Lah!!!
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Strayy on May 22, 2008, 06:28:54 pm
Hail D.net !!! :notworthy:  'bout time !!!!!
another tidbit... as the ideas/suggestions roll in...  make sure SFC4 is vista compatible, or any other goofiness microsoft can throw out, and get rid of the gamespy login for the dynaverse...  these 2 items alone would greatly improve the game.  8)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on May 22, 2008, 06:31:05 pm
Hail D.net !!! :notworthy:  'bout time !!!!!
another tidbit... as the ideas/suggestions roll in...  make sure SFC4 is vista compatible, or any other goofiness microsoft can throw out, and get rid of the gamespy login for the dynaverse...  these 2 items alone would greatly improve the game.  8)


 Maybe having it on game spy as well, would be a good marketing tool??
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: NuclearWessels on May 23, 2008, 12:16:50 am
I wonder how much of the officer system is still in SFC:EAW from SFC1?  It might not be that hard to bring back online in the game.


Judging purely from what we've done with the scripting API and the flatfile ship blobs, I'd say the majority of it is still salvagable.  Before the recent SFC4 developments I was in the process of updating the db editor to allow officer assignment.

dave
Title: the reply function is messing up
Post by: JohanobesusII on May 23, 2008, 12:18:16 am
You say that it will be highly moddable.  Does that include editing and adding weapons?  The debate about SFB could be largely solved by making almost everything editable.  That way non-purists could have seeking photon torpedoes, or different powered disruptors, or even totally new weapons for Gorns and Tholians, while purists can have their drones and energy photon torpedoes.  If the map is editable, then cannon purists can have Ferengis and Cardassians along with Lyrans and Hydrans.

One of my fantasies, if I won the lottery, was to commission an SFC based game that would be completely customizable, but would be distributed with some original races and ships, so as to skirt most legal issues.  Players would have the freedom to make the game into almost anything they want, a computerized SFB, a cannon simulator, etc.  They would even be able to change the effectiveness of the cloak, so SFB purists could have their half hearted cloak, while cannon purists could have perfect invisibility.  There could even be different types of cloaks, to simulate the evolution from TOS to TNG invisibility.  Maybe even the Mauler could be edited to take energy from the warp or impulse generator, with a cooling off time, to make a realistic Wave Motion Gun.

Are you sure this isn't a joke?  Why is this not in the SFC Open Source forum, since that would seem the proper place for it?  Why does the little announcement in that forum end with "snicker"?
Title: Re: the reply function is messing up
Post by: KBF-Crim on May 23, 2008, 12:38:31 am
You say that it will be highly moddable.  Does that include editing and adding weapons?  The debate about SFB could be largely solved by making almost everything editable.  That way non-purists could have seeking photon torpedoes, or different powered disruptors, or even totally new weapons for Gorns and Tholians, while purists can have their drones and energy photon torpedoes.  If the map is editable, then cannon purists can have Ferengis and Cardassians along with Lyrans and Hydrans.

One of my fantasies, if I won the lottery, was to commission an SFC based game that would be completely customizable, but would be distributed with some original races and ships, so as to skirt most legal issues.  Players would have the freedom to make the game into almost anything they want, a computerized SFB, a cannon simulator, etc.  They would even be able to change the effectiveness of the cloak, so SFB purists could have their half hearted cloak, while cannon purists could have perfect invisibility.  There could even be different types of cloaks, to simulate the evolution from TOS to TNG invisibility.  Maybe even the Mauler could be edited to take energy from the warp or impulse generator, with a cooling off time, to make a realistic Wave Motion Gun.

Are you sure this isn't a joke?  Why is this not in the SFC Open Source forum, since that would seem the proper place for it?  Why does the little announcement in that forum end with "snicker"?



Frey doesnt post jokes about new projects... ;)

That forum is actually called "OP open source"...the forum was set up by myself in regards to information that the Op scource was to be released...which has proved to not have been the case...

The only reason it still exists is because there are still several ongoing projects having to do with Orion pirates...

You clearly didnt notice that there is now a NEW forum:

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/board,3303.0.html


SFC4 Galaxies at War is to be built upon SFC2 Empires at War code...more of a stand anlone expansion of SFC2 than a new game...the code for EAW is now in the care of DV.net...

That's what we got...so that's what we'll build upon...
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Raven Night on May 23, 2008, 02:36:42 am
I will be retiring from Nightsoft in a few months. I would be happy to assist in the design of the game, including ship designs and meshes. Just let me know if you would like my help.

Raven, Sorry to hear about Nightsoft... But i don't suppose i could grab you? Your skills and experience would be highly appreciated.

Sure...im looking for busy work. Dont be sorry, im looking forward to retiring, frankly im a bit weary of the limitations on what I can do and cant do. Free from Nightsoft means I am once again my own man.

But sure, send me a message letting me know what you need and I would love to contribute.
Title: Re: the reply function is messing up
Post by: JohanobesusII on May 23, 2008, 02:55:49 am
You say that it will be highly moddable.  Does that include editing and adding weapons?  The debate about SFB could be largely solved by making almost everything editable.  That way non-purists could have seeking photon torpedoes, or different powered disruptors, or even totally new weapons for Gorns and Tholians, while purists can have their drones and energy photon torpedoes.  If the map is editable, then cannon purists can have Ferengis and Cardassians along with Lyrans and Hydrans.

One of my fantasies, if I won the lottery, was to commission an SFC based game that would be completely customizable, but would be distributed with some original races and ships, so as to skirt most legal issues.  Players would have the freedom to make the game into almost anything they want, a computerized SFB, a cannon simulator, etc.  They would even be able to change the effectiveness of the cloak, so SFB purists could have their half hearted cloak, while cannon purists could have perfect invisibility.  There could even be different types of cloaks, to simulate the evolution from TOS to TNG invisibility.  Maybe even the Mauler could be edited to take energy from the warp or impulse generator, with a cooling off time, to make a realistic Wave Motion Gun.

Are you sure this isn't a joke?  Why is this not in the SFC Open Source forum, since that would seem the proper place for it?  Why does the little announcement in that forum end with "snicker"?



Frey doesnt post jokes about new projects... ;)

That forum is actually called "OP open source"...the forum was set up by myself in regards to information that the Op scource was to be released...which has proved to not have been the case...

The only reason it still exists is because there are still several ongoing projects having to do with Orion pirates...

You clearly didnt notice that there is now a NEW forum:

[url]http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/board,3303.0.html[/url]


SFC4 Galaxies at War is to be built upon SFC2 Empires at War code...more of a stand anlone expansion of SFC2 than a new game...the code for EAW is now in the care of DV.net...

That's what we got...so that's what we'll build upon...


What about my main questions concerning customaizing?  I really want to be able to make custom weapons.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Pestalence_XC on May 23, 2008, 03:01:07 am
Feature requests should be posted in the link provided by Crim : http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/board,3303.0.html

The game is still in the planning stage as we gather programmers and you will also have to remember this is the Empires at War game engine that is being improved upon.. not a re-write of the entire game.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: CyberLemur on May 23, 2008, 03:30:34 am
I'd be happy to do some music composing for the game, if you want. I could give sound effects a go too, though I don't have much experience with them.

http://www.mediafire.com/?xsky8ny5zvo
^^A demo of some of my music^^
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FA Frey XC on May 23, 2008, 03:40:28 am
I''ll be making a post later on this weekend about some ideas we're currently planning to implement in regards to SFC4.

Consider it a kinda "to whet your whistle" thing.

We can then do a Q/ A.

Regards,
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on May 23, 2008, 04:52:56 am
I''ll be making a post later on this weekend about some ideas we're currently planning to implement in regards to SFC4.

Consider it a kinda "to whet your whistle" thing.

We can then do a Q/ A.

Regards,

 Frey you are the man!!! :) :) :) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Akira_Commander567 on May 23, 2008, 06:19:02 am
Good luck with SFC 4! May luck be with you and get the game out quick!
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: markyd on May 23, 2008, 08:30:11 am
Miles is in so i guess that means im in lol... but no... its the biggest thing since slice bread this, so when you finally start putting her together, im in for whatever you need, models, textures, mapping, importing, new forums???, images, videos, animations etc

good luck guys.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Tethys on May 23, 2008, 10:09:59 am
I'd be happy to do some music composing for the game, if you want. I could give sound effects a go too, though I don't have much experience with them.

[url]http://www.mediafire.com/?xsky8ny5zvo[/url]
^^A demo of some of my music^^


OMG i LOVE the 3rd segment before the technoe bit awesome stuff. i do music as well, mostly hiphop/rap tho my email is csadens777@hotmail.com email me and i will send u a demo of some of my stuff. i also did a bit for a ST Birth of the Federation mod so let me know and we can do something. latez.

Tethys
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Kroma BaSyl on May 23, 2008, 04:08:44 pm
Well if you need any help painting the Gorn ships pink, then I am you ma....errrr.....gender confused lizard.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Kreeargh on May 23, 2008, 08:15:48 pm
Good luck On the SFC 4 guys :thumbsup:  Id like to say im in but sub standard wont work . I have been waiting for this for a long time and cant wait to see the results. Ill have to mod my own personal mod if its going to be modable that is.
Is the model format going to change any?
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: psytce on May 24, 2008, 01:10:01 am
Just wanted to say thanks, I can't wait to see this.    :) :laugh:  :D

I'll try to help as much as I can with bata testing as the builds come out.

This is great news .......
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Green on May 24, 2008, 08:21:09 pm
Great googly moogly. Time to plot shoving Hex out an air lock.

So SFC4 will allow us to continue to kill Hexx? 

Great, looking forward to it.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Cruis.In on May 24, 2008, 10:21:25 pm
good to see the fans are making games, just like they're making movies.

I wish to offer you a healthy constructive suggestion, one which will save you headache.

i dont know the facts of sfc2 orion pirates, you have access to the actual engine code? or just the game code? do you have any of it?

assuming not, then stay away from C++ and that kind of environment, takes years to develop something with a full huge team of programmers working in that environment much less a fan project, with people with real liives and limited time to devote to such a project unless you let it take over your life.

theres many things out there you could use.

blitzmax, with the blitz3d sdk, best of 2d/3d game OO programming you could get. easy simple coding, for experienced programmers.

theres other stuff such as ogre3d which is open source etc...

dont let the yesteryears fool you, things like blitzmax are powerful enough speed wise etc, to get what you need done.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FPF-Thrain on May 24, 2008, 10:38:56 pm
Good Grief!

I step out to take a smoke and I return to find you all suffering from delusions of granduer! I certainly hope this pulls through. You've definately gotten my attention, (and so did that lil' thing Soreyes has bouncing in his avatar! lol).

Tell me when the shooting starts. I may be old and slow compared to some of you whippersnappers, but I don't believe there's a hand here I haven't handed my head to.......wait..... that didn't come out right!

Now I lay me down to sleep.
Frey and company my game to keep,
If it starts before I wake,
It's Krueg I want, so make him wait!

lol
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FAR on May 24, 2008, 10:50:52 pm
I've moved this to public development (suggestions).
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on May 24, 2008, 10:56:54 pm
I have a question for the Project Manager:

Why haven't you consider NanoFX Game Engine ([url]http://www.nanofx.org/phpBB2/album.php[/url])?

Have a look at it ([url]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=77WKHW-fYoo[/url]), shouldn't SFC 4 look like that?


I don't think they have looked at it because the game will be an extention of the SFC:EAW code.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Rat Boy on May 25, 2008, 12:22:39 pm
Mind if I toss my hat into the writer's circle?  SFC, after all, is where I got my start.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: mstrobel on May 25, 2008, 07:29:28 pm
Hi there,

I'm the lead developer of Star Trek: Supremacy (http://www.startreksupremacy.com/) (I'm not sure if you've heard of it or not).  Congratulations on the new project--it looks very interesting indeed!  Might I make a few suggestions from my own experience developing a Trek fan game:


On a side note, Supremacy is also developed in C# against the .NET platform, and there is certainly a potential for collaboration.  Supremacy will eventually sport a 3D tactical combat engine, which your game will obviouly need as well.  It might be worth discussing a sort of joint venture there, as both games are Trek-based and the basic combat requirements may be similar.  On another side note, such collaboration would require your project to use a compatible open source license--as would collaboration with most other open source projects, and even the use of some open source game engines.  Another good reason to go open source :).

Cheers,
Mike Strobel
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: GFL Offkey on May 27, 2008, 12:28:40 am
We at the GFL will help. I have one programmer in college working C++. I would like to offer input in a admin position as discussions on what route what weapons ect. I run the admin status of our mod team and right now we are number one with sfc3. We also have designers, skin developers and sound people. So let me know what ya want and we will assist. My contact is tljones@vcn.com
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Pestalence_XC on May 27, 2008, 12:36:55 am
For those offering to help on SFC 4.. Please put an application in with Braxton in accordance with the first post..

You do not have to be just a programmer.. you can have graphics experience, Music experience, etc.. the initial posting was just for an example to fill out for your skills.. Scripters, writers, so forth.. put your apps in.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: USS Mariner on May 27, 2008, 08:26:09 pm
Dammit, I forgot to input my experience as a vocalist. Can't forget the opportunities for voice overs. :P

Should I re-mail my application?
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Pestalence_XC on May 27, 2008, 09:40:03 pm
I would, just to be safe
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: psytce on May 28, 2008, 03:44:40 pm
For those offering to help on SFC 4.. Please put an application in with Braxton in accordance with the first post..

You do not have to be just a programmer.. you can have graphics experience, Music experience, etc.. the initial posting was just for an example to fill out for your skills.. Scripters, writers, so forth.. put your apps in.


When I was having trouble with SFC1 I found your posts and they helped me.
Then when I was wondering about SFC2 you posted that you had an update for SFC:OP that would fill in for SFC2:EAW, this saved me from buying both EAW and OP...... It seems that everytime I needed help with SFC you were there to help ... So, I don't know how much I can help, but I've Emailed my programming set and I'll see if I can help you as much and you have helped me ......

Thanks,
Tommy
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Age on May 29, 2008, 04:04:22 pm
What I would like to say about this game is to keep it on par with all other new games coming out.This is so that others don't have hand up keeping the features the saame as SFC2 or SFC3.This is like me vs players like say Dizzy on a server who have more exprience or Crim.It is why I can't compete no matter how much time I put in practicing they know the shiplist off by heart.

When I went over to play GW I was ona level playing field with others as it was a new game.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on May 29, 2008, 04:28:35 pm
What I would like to say about this game is to keep it on par with all other new games coming out.This is so that others don't have hand up keeping the features the saame as SFC2 or SFC3.This is like me vs players like say Dizzy on a server who have more exprience or Crim.It is why I can't compete no matter how much time I put in practicing they know the shiplist off by heart.

When I went over to play GW I was ona level playing field with others as it was a new game.

yeah, the guys who play alot are going to kick our butts.  But I play for the one in a hundred chance to beat one of the big guys.

Same with 2142, I will never be able to fly well, but I keep trying, heck I think I might have even got a kill the last time before I was rudely blown out of the air (numberous times).

But with SFC I enter a mission, I still have to fire off a probe to check the weapons of the enemy, even when I have seen what the ship is.  And heck who knows you might be up against me and that would be a level playing field (maybe even tilted in your favor).  There are more noobs out there (even tho I have played the game for year, I took a multi-year break so I am back to ground zero)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: KBF-Crim on May 29, 2008, 06:21:27 pm
Honestly guys...the only way to get any better is to play people much better than yourself...get the snot beat out of you....dust yourself off...smile...and beg them to play again....

When I got SFC1 in 11/98...I almost took it back....it took me two weeks to learn how to beat a damn frigate controlled by the AI...the game was so different to anything I had ever played before...I just couldnt get the concept...

When I found M-player...it was demolarizing...After bangin on the AI for month or two I thought I was king...I was in for a very rude awakening...I got my hat handed to me so many times I lost count...again..I almost gave it up...

It was Dennis Green (SFC Shadow) and Scott Bruno (Captain Krumb) who taught me the basics...Taught me to think of SFC as I think of chess...

I got beat by the best of them...over and over...OscottyO..NTDN, sfaret, Crimson Knight, Kirk Jr, the masters...I didnt know at the time they were all the inner circle team...

This is when I decided to concentrate on one race...until I mastered it...as you can see...I'm still flying Klingon...partly because of my fleetmates...partly becuase I still dont feel that I have mastered Klingons...I'm dangerous...but even after ten years...I'm no ace...I still get smacked around a bit..There are guys I've never beaten....but it's a GAME...I have no fear...fear is the mind killer..

If you can get you hands on one of Dennis Greens' strat guides....he has some excellent drills to hone your skills...

If you cant get one or dont have one...I can post some drills in the tactics section...

Another good thing to do is to find a sparing partner, a person with the same skill level, and simply play battles with the same ships...over and over...this is relaxing and much less pressure than trying to get a good game together on the Dyna...

And quite often...some of the guys offer training sessions...Die Hard is an excellent pilot and a master of the federation...Just ask him..he'll find the time to help you guys out...

Much like chess...you will never advance your own skills if you only want to win and play people of lessor skills just to beat them up...

One cannot become a master...unless one can beat a master...

The fun is in the battle itself...not the outcome...

If the only fun I had was winning....I'd have given up long ago... ;)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: KBFLordKrueg on May 29, 2008, 11:22:05 pm
Honestly guys...the only way to get any better is to play people much better than yourself...get the snot beat out of you....dust yourself off...smile...and beg them to play again....

When I got SFC1 in 11/98...I almost took it back....it took me two weeks to learn how to beat a damn frigate controlled by the AI...the game was so different to anything I had ever played before...I just couldnt get the concept...

When I found M-player...it was demolarizing...After bangin on the AI for month or two I thought I was king...I was in for a very rude awakening...I got my hat handed to me so many times I lost count...again..I almost gave it up...

It was Dennis Green (SFC Shadow) and Scott Bruno (Captain Krumb) who taught me the basics...Taught me to think of SFC as I think of chess...

I got beat by the best of them...over and over...OscottyO..NTDN, sfaret, Crimson Knight, Kirk Jr, the masters...I didnt know at the time they were all the inner circle team...

This is when I decided to concentrate on one race...until I mastered it...as you can see...I'm still flying Klingon...partly because of my fleetmates...partly becuase I still dont feel that I have mastered Klingons...I'm dangerous...but even after ten years...I'm no ace...I still get smacked around a bit..There are guys I've never beaten....but it's a GAME...I have no fear...fear is the mind killer..

If you can get you hands on one of Dennis Greens' strat guides....he has some excellent drills to hone your skills...

If you cant get one or dont have one...I can post some drills in the tactics section...

Another good thing to do is to find a sparing partner, a person with the same skill level, and simply play battles with the same ships...over and over...this is relaxing and much less pressure than trying to get a good game together on the Dyna...

And quite often...some of the guys offer training sessions...Die Hard is an excellent pilot and a master of the federation...Just ask him..he'll find the time to help you guys out...

Much like chess...you will never advance your own skills if you only want to win and play people of lessor skills just to beat them up...

One cannot become a master...unless one can beat a master...

The fun is in the battle itself...not the outcome...

If the only fun I had was winning....I'd have given up long ago... ;)

Very well put, Crim.
Maybe I'll put off that agony booth... :P ;D
I had a similar story, as a 15 year veteran of SFB, I came into SFC1 with great confidence, only to get my ass consistently handed to me online.
I joined a fleet, DOA, and members there helped me  a lot with the conversion from a rule soaked board game to a 10 seconds-per-turn video game.
But, I still went 17 losses before I won my first match on Mplayer (remember Mpig?  ::) )  :-[
But, I learned with every loss what worked and what effected game play.
Team-mates help.
Ask your opponent where you made your mistake if you don't know, especially if you get spanked, ask them to be honest and accept the brutal answer and, most important, LEARN from it,
Practice, practice, practice.
In any online game, I don't care what it is, the best players are those that practice, take genuine advice well, and enjoy the challenge of learning how to do it well.
You want a "If I can't win, I don't want to play" game, well, maybe you should look elsewhere.
*word*
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: KBF-Kapact on May 30, 2008, 12:40:43 am
I've said this so many times I can't count, but I positively stank at this game for years. But the KBF has always stuck with me and helped out whenever possible. I've got a decent record against the AI, pretty good hex flipper, but to my recollection have only one (and it was disputed) PvP victory. But I enjoy it, and I appreciate the fact that I'm welcome in the KBF despite my record of battle..... winning is great, but I'm pretty happy just playing....


Kapact
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on May 30, 2008, 03:22:12 pm
That is what I said, in a longers form.  I play to play, I really enjoyed the mornings what I could log on and chat an fly with Deadman and crew.  (my schedule changed again so mornings might be back in for me).  When I hit PVP I sometimes win, sometimes lose, but always have fun (in a damn damn damn *boom* kind of way).
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on May 30, 2008, 05:08:44 pm
I've said this so many times I can't count, but I positively stank at this game for years. But the KBF has always stuck with me and helped out whenever possible. I've got a decent record against the AI, pretty good hex flipper, but to my recollection have only one (and it was disputed) PvP victory. But I enjoy it, and I appreciate the fact that I'm welcome in the KBF despite my record of battle..... winning is great, but I'm pretty happy just playing....


Kapact

 I used to have the same problem back when I played on game spy with the GFL. But the more I played the better I became.
 I also played allot of "Training games" in single player. I turned up the game speed to 11 and cranked the game up to hardest difficulty as well. This really helped me think fast,and improved my skills. Because you get used to the faster speed. And your reaction time becomes better,it becomes instinct ,because you don't have time to over analyse the situation..
 The only drawback I have now is I think game speed 9 is too slow and boring. :)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: KBF-Kapact on May 30, 2008, 09:17:54 pm
I've said this so many times I can't count, but I positively stank at this game for years. But the KBF has always stuck with me and helped out whenever possible. I've got a decent record against the AI, pretty good hex flipper, but to my recollection have only one (and it was disputed) PvP victory. But I enjoy it, and I appreciate the fact that I'm welcome in the KBF despite my record of battle..... winning is great, but I'm pretty happy just playing....


Kapact

 I used to have the same problem back when I played on game spy with the GFL. But the more I played the better I became.
 I also played allot of "Training games" in single player. I turned up the game speed to 11 and cranked the game up to hardest difficulty as well. This really helped me think fast,and improved my skills. Because you get used to the faster speed. And your reaction time becomes better,it becomes instinct ,because you don't have time to over analyse the situation..
 The only drawback I have now is I think game speed 9 is too slow and boring. :)


I never really thought about that. I'll have to try it. Thanks  ;D


Kapact
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on May 30, 2008, 09:45:41 pm
I've said this so many times I can't count, but I positively stank at this game for years. But the KBF has always stuck with me and helped out whenever possible. I've got a decent record against the AI, pretty good hex flipper, but to my recollection have only one (and it was disputed) PvP victory. But I enjoy it, and I appreciate the fact that I'm welcome in the KBF despite my record of battle..... winning is great, but I'm pretty happy just playing....


Kapact

 I used to have the same problem back when I played on game spy with the GFL. But the more I played the better I became.
 I also played allot of "Training games" in single player. I turned up the game speed to 11 and cranked the game up to hardest difficulty as well. This really helped me think fast,and improved my skills. Because you get used to the faster speed. And your reaction time becomes better,it becomes instinct ,because you don't have time to over analyse the situation..
 The only drawback I have now is I think game speed 9 is too slow and boring. :)


I never really thought about that. I'll have to try it. Thanks  ;D


Kapact

 Q ' apLaH !!!!
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: KBFLordKrueg on May 31, 2008, 01:01:17 am
I've said this so many times I can't count, but I positively stank at this game for years. But the KBF has always stuck with me and helped out whenever possible. I've got a decent record against the AI, pretty good hex flipper, but to my recollection have only one (and it was disputed) PvP victory. But I enjoy it, and I appreciate the fact that I'm welcome in the KBF despite my record of battle..... winning is great, but I'm pretty happy just playing....


Kapact

Being a part of KBF isn't always solely based on player aptitude.  ;D
And, IMOHPO, you'll never get better at PvP fighting AI.
That's theory vs practical application.
Practice and teamwork is the key.
Wing up on ATOK 4, Kapact, we're still there for ya... ;)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Pestalence_XC on May 31, 2008, 01:03:00 am
Or you could try out the OP Hardcore server.. I have it running the OP + v4.0 using the stock Conquest game map, but my settings will toss some serious opposition at you.

If it still seems too easy, just let me know and I will increase the chances of 2 or 3 AI coming at ya.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Terradyhne on May 31, 2008, 02:32:56 am
great to hear that you guys working on SFC4 and i hope you have enough creative designers to get good designs for all races not just an overwhelming Fed fleet. :)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: SFCJB on May 31, 2008, 03:20:26 am
Wow, this is the best news I have heard in a long time. I started playing sfc1 back in the mplayer days and it was a blast. Voidwar and I would team up and smack peep around daily.  mmm magic photons.....
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: worfhonour on May 31, 2008, 10:19:04 am
Hi,
Great news.

If ya wanna learn the game face me I am the best player ever.

Worfy :D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: KBF-Kapact on May 31, 2008, 12:47:49 pm
I've said this so many times I can't count, but I positively stank at this game for years. But the KBF has always stuck with me and helped out whenever possible. I've got a decent record against the AI, pretty good hex flipper, but to my recollection have only one (and it was disputed) PvP victory. But I enjoy it, and I appreciate the fact that I'm welcome in the KBF despite my record of battle..... winning is great, but I'm pretty happy just playing....


Kapact

Being a part of KBF isn't always solely based on player aptitude.  ;D
And, IMOHPO, you'll never get better at PvP fighting AI.
That's theory vs practical application.
Practice and teamwork is the key.
Wing up on ATOK 4, Kapact, we're still there for ya... ;)

rock on....
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on May 31, 2008, 12:47:58 pm
Or you could try out the OP Hardcore server.. I have it running the OP + v4.0 using the stock Conquest game map, but my settings will toss some serious opposition at you.

If it still seems too easy, just let me know and I will increase the chances of 2 or 3 AI coming at ya.

 Yum yum !!! :) that sonds like fun!! is it in downloads section??

 I need to get back into the swing of things,and kill some Flat Heads.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Pestalence_XC on May 31, 2008, 06:36:55 pm
Or you could try out the OP Hardcore server.. I have it running the OP + v4.0 using the stock Conquest game map, but my settings will toss some serious opposition at you.

If it still seems too easy, just let me know and I will increase the chances of 2 or 3 AI coming at ya.


 Yum yum !!! :) that sonds like fun!! is it in downloads section??

 I need to get back into the swing of things,and kill some Flat Heads.


http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163380514.0.html
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on May 31, 2008, 06:40:03 pm
Or you could try out the OP Hardcore server.. I have it running the OP + v4.0 using the stock Conquest game map, but my settings will toss some serious opposition at you.

If it still seems too easy, just let me know and I will increase the chances of 2 or 3 AI coming at ya.


 Yum yum !!! :) that sonds like fun!! is it in downloads section??

 I need to get back into the swing of things,and kill some Flat Heads.


[url]http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163380514.0.html[/url]


 Thanks Pestalence ! :)

 I look foward to getting my butt kicked. It only makes me better in the long run.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Walleye on June 02, 2008, 09:03:01 pm
Wow, this is the best news I have heard in a long time. I started playing sfc1 back in the mplayer days and it was a blast. Voidwar and I would team up and smack peep around daily.  mmm magic photons.....

Perhaps the end of your post should read "smack some people around daily". LOL/JK

Good to see you still lurk here.

I'll never forget Void's "300 Late Me Fed You Dead" rooms.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: wulf111 on June 03, 2008, 06:55:28 am
i found something of interest that may or may not be healpfull it seems that Havok is offering their software for free to non commercial use.http://tryhavok.intel.com/
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: doctagh on June 06, 2008, 12:38:40 am


Greetings,

     So is it done yet...............

Just kidding. I have to say that this is the game that I am the most looking forward too.  I have notified my clan (the Klingon Honor Brigade) and my favorite computer forum (Arstechnica) about this great news !  Really I can hardly wait !  I do not think that you have to reinvent the wheel for this to be very successful. Just make a little bit better game then SFC3 and update the graphics and my God it will be great.  It would be cool if you could put a couple of aspects from st armada in it like building things and such.  I wish you much luck and God speed.  Not to be a total p'tak but when is the ETA?  The online game portion of sfc3 are  some my fondest memories.  I can hardly wait to play again !

DocTagh
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FPF-DieHard on June 06, 2008, 10:55:28 am
What I would like to say about this game is to keep it on par with all other new games coming out.This is so that others don't have hand up keeping the features the saame as SFC2 or SFC3.This is like me vs players like say Dizzy on a server who have more exprience or Crim.It is why I can't compete no matter how much time I put in practicing they know the shiplist off by heart.

When I went over to play GW I was ona level playing field with others as it was a new game.

Niot true, compared to the old timers I'm a "n00b."   My first D2 server was CW6:  Storm Season.   You can learn, you just have to grasp the fundamentals and listen.

Sure I played SFB and bought ton of book, read all the tactics, but I SUCKED!!!!  My brothers used to kick my ass all the time.   I think I'm like 1-37 in lifetime SFB games.

I learn how to fly by training with the 9th Fleet for one of the turn-based campaigns, reading Mu's SFC blog, and reading the 3rd Fleet's Bible on Starcaslting.   Ghish was the master, as were Mu and Kruk and radically different styles. 

I've also had a couple of epiphanies when flying on the frontline.  I learned so much from watching Ghish fly an F-DNH against hoard of PFs.   I learned when Madelf's killed my F-BCV while he was in a K-C7V.   And I learned a hell of a lot from KBF-Saxxon from the multiple battles we fought on various servers.   

Back in the day the FPF used to practice 6-10 hours a week.   It worked, we got good.  We flew ISC in a PBR cycle to learn plasma, that made us better at fighting against it because we learned it's limitations.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on June 06, 2008, 02:30:17 pm
What I would like to say about this game is to keep it on par with all other new games coming out.This is so that others don't have hand up keeping the features the saame as SFC2 or SFC3.This is like me vs players like say Dizzy on a server who have more exprience or Crim.It is why I can't compete no matter how much time I put in practicing they know the shiplist off by heart.

When I went over to play GW I was ona level playing field with others as it was a new game.

Niot true, compared to the old timers I'm a "n00b."   My first D2 server was CW6:  Storm Season.   You can learn, you just have to grasp the fundamentals and listen.

Sure I played SFB and bought ton of book, read all the tactics, but I SUCKED!!!!  My brothers used to kick my ass all the time.   I think I'm like 1-37 in lifetime SFB games.

I learn how to fly by training with the 9th Fleet for one of the turn-based campaigns, reading Mu's SFC blog, and reading the 3rd Fleet's Bible on Starcaslting.   Ghish was the master, as were Mu and Kruk and radically different styles. 

I've also had a couple of epiphanies when flying on the frontline.  I learned so much from watching Ghish fly an F-DNH against hoard of PFs.   I learned when Madelf's killed my F-BCV while he was in a K-C7V.   And I learned a hell of a lot from KBF-Saxxon from the multiple battles we fought on various servers.   

Back in the day the FPF used to practice 6-10 hours a week.   It worked, we got good.  We flew ISC in a PBR cycle to learn plasma, that made us better at fighting against it because we learned it's limitations.

Thing is go into GW now and new players don't stand a chance against the older players either, works that way in all of the games.  I keep plodding along because I enjoy the few people I get to wing with.  Also no local players anymore so this is my SFB fix also.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FPF-DieHard on June 06, 2008, 03:08:19 pm
"The Game" needs better tutorials, the Federation tactics listed in the Official manual might as well be named "how to die as Fed in PvP."

Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Age on June 06, 2008, 03:47:06 pm
What I would like to say about this game is to keep it on par with all other new games coming out.This is so that others don't have hand up keeping the features the saame as SFC2 or SFC3.This is like me vs players like say Dizzy on a server who have more exprience or Crim.It is why I can't compete no matter how much time I put in practicing they know the shiplist off by heart.

When I went over to play GW I was ona level playing field with others as it was a new game.

Niot true, compared to the old timers I'm a "n00b."   My first D2 server was CW6:  Storm Season.   You can learn, you just have to grasp the fundamentals and listen.

Sure I played SFB and bought ton of book, read all the tactics, but I SUCKED!!!!  My brothers used to kick my ass all the time.   I think I'm like 1-37 in lifetime SFB games.

I learn how to fly by training with the 9th Fleet for one of the turn-based campaigns, reading Mu's SFC blog, and reading the 3rd Fleet's Bible on Starcaslting.   Ghish was the master, as were Mu and Kruk and radically different styles. 

I've also had a couple of epiphanies when flying on the frontline.  I learned so much from watching Ghish fly an F-DNH against hoard of PFs.   I learned when Madelf's killed my F-BCV while he was in a K-C7V.   And I learned a hell of a lot from KBF-Saxxon from the multiple battles we fought on various servers.   

Back in the day the FPF used to practice 6-10 hours a week.   It worked, we got good.  We flew ISC in a PBR cycle to learn plasma, that made us better at fighting against it because we learned it's limitations.

Thing is go into GW now and new players don't stand a chance against the older players either, works that way in all of the games. I keep plodding along because I enjoy the few people I get to wing with. Also no local players anymore so this is my SFB fix also.
That is not nessaraly true though you get into a good guild and they can tech you wonders in a 4 vs 4.When you get better then you can move on to 8 vs 8.This is strickly pvping though no killing AI it is also a team game.the only way it can feel like SFC is if you are going on a 1 vs 1 in hero battles and even that is different.

It is different than say playing on the Dyna and getting a good draft on a server.This is where I would say today the new players need to get into a good Fleet.                                     
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: IndyShark on June 09, 2008, 06:28:09 pm
Wow this is tooo cool. I can't wait to see how it turns out.


Good luck to the team. I can't program my cell phone! LOL
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FCM_SFHQ_XC on June 11, 2008, 02:25:15 pm
Were still short on C++ programmers, please apply if you have good C++ skills (even if you are a bit rusty)
Remember to submit:
Quote
Name:
Address:

Job (IE: Programmer):
Skills (IE: C++/SQL):

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MSN Messenger (If applicable):

Please include a piece of sample of your work as an attachment.
to Braxton.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on June 12, 2008, 01:01:41 am
Were still short on C++ programmers, please apply if you have good C++ skills (even if you are a bit rusty)
Remember to submit:
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Name:
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to Braxton.

*PERK* even if rusty. hmmm.  Well, I did send in a short app, don't have any code to send any more, been lost to the great bit bucket many years and many systems ago. But I can still help comment and read the code to find the areas to work on.  Would work my damndist (how ever you spell that darn word) to work on fighters and PF's.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: GE-Raven on June 12, 2008, 08:34:41 am
Have offered up my musical composition talent.  Other than network engineering skills can't see anything else I would possibly be useful for :-)

GE-Raven
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FPF-DieHard on June 12, 2008, 08:53:15 am
Have offered up my musical composition talent.  Other than network engineering skills can't see anything else I would possibly be useful for :-)

GE-Raven


Play-testing, you're an excellent plasma pilot.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: GE-Raven on June 12, 2008, 11:26:14 am
Have offered up my musical composition talent.  Other than network engineering skills can't see anything else I would possibly be useful for :-)

GE-Raven


Play-testing, you're an excellent plasma pilot.

LOL was... can't even recall the last time I played.  Speaking of which I really should load it back up again... maybe it is like riding a bike.

GE-Raven
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on June 12, 2008, 04:00:00 pm
Have offered up my musical composition talent.  Other than network engineering skills can't see anything else I would possibly be useful for :-)

GE-Raven


Play-testing, you're an excellent plasma pilot.

LOL was... can't even recall the last time I played.  Speaking of which I really should load it back up again... maybe it is like riding a bike.

GE-Raven


  "Play-testing, you're an excellent plasma pilot."

 This is  understatement. ;)

 I still remember, you brutalising me on Game Spy. NOBODY has ever spanked me so hard, and so quickly. It was great fun, and a good learning experience.

 If your half as good as you where. You will still do fine. :)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: atheorhaven on June 12, 2008, 05:29:14 pm
Had offered to help with some minor meshing and a bit more texturing.. no word back yet though..
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Rod ONeal on June 12, 2008, 06:34:31 pm
Had offered to help with some minor meshing and a bit more texturing.. no word back yet though..

Yes, it's been eerily quiet since the 1st announcement. :-\
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on June 16, 2008, 09:44:37 pm
Sorry to have to post some on these questions, but please have pity on me and save me from having to slog through 5 pages of posts to get find the answers.

1.) Who is in charge, or is leading the code development team for this project (no, I don't want the job), I want to know who to report to.
2.) What language are we using for this project?
3.) Are we using an IDE, if so, which one?

I'll probably have others questions later.

Oh yeah, hi everyone...

I'm baaaaaaaaack!
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on June 16, 2008, 10:10:49 pm
Were still short on C++ programmers, please apply if you have good C++ skills (even if you are a bit rusty)
Remember to submit:
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Name:
Address:

Job (IE: Programmer):
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to Braxton.

Which flavor of SQL?
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Centurus on June 17, 2008, 02:30:01 am
Had offered to help with some minor meshing and a bit more texturing.. no word back yet though..

Yes, it's been eerily quiet since the 1st announcement. :-\

If I didn't know any better, and if I didn't know for a fact that XC isn't as sadistic as myself, I'd say they were probably getting an early start on April Fool's day next year.    ;D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Akira_Commander567 on June 17, 2008, 10:19:04 am
Hey, which races will be avaliable in SFC 4? I hope that you put in the Gorns, they're one of my favorite races to use.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on June 17, 2008, 10:46:45 pm
I wish I had a better example, but I've only gotten back into the programming arena.

using System;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using System.Text;

namespace CreatStruct
{
    class Program
    {
        struct Person
        {
            public string firstName;
            public string lastName;
            public int age;
            public Genders gender;


            public Person(string _firstName, string _lastName, int _age, Genders _gender)
            {
                firstName = _firstName;
                lastName = _lastName;
                age = _age;
                gender = _gender;
            }

            public override string ToString()
            {
                return firstName + "" + lastName + "("+ gender + "), age " + age; //.ToString();
            }

            public enum Genders : int { Male, Female }
        }

        static void Main(string[] args)
        {
            Person p= new Person ("Tony", "Allen", 32, Person.Genders.Male);
            Console.WriteLine(p);
            return;
        }
    }
}
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on June 18, 2008, 02:54:04 pm
Were still short on C++ programmers, please apply if you have good C++ skills (even if you are a bit rusty)
Remember to submit:
Quote
Name:
Address:

Job (IE: Programmer):
Skills (IE: C++/SQL):

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to Braxton.

Which flavor of SQL?

Should be MySQL.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on June 18, 2008, 08:21:52 pm
Were still short on C++ programmers, please apply if you have good C++ skills (even if you are a bit rusty)
Remember to submit:
Quote
Name:
Address:

Job (IE: Programmer):
Skills (IE: C++/SQL):

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to Braxton.

Which flavor of SQL?

Should be MySQL.

Is this a for sure. MS SQL comes in a free flavor as well  which is the reson for my question.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FA Frey XC on June 25, 2008, 05:08:36 am
Alot of this is still to be determined.

Likely, if SQL support is included (which I intend it to be) then it will be set for MySQL.

This is still to be determined, as are so many other things.

Regards,
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on June 25, 2008, 07:23:12 am
Alot of this is still to be determined.

Likely, if SQL support is included (which I intend it to be) then it will be set for MySQL.

This is still to be determined, as are so many other things.

Regards,

Hopefully as people voice support for things they shall be added to the long list.  SQL is just one of the things that make alot of sense to support.

Oh and Frey, thanks for all you have been doing for the comunity.  I have had some wishes for some things, but understand the constrants you have to work with.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Nemesis on June 25, 2008, 07:42:08 am
Is this a for sure. MS SQL comes in a free flavor as well  which is the reson for my question.

If it is on MS SQL you limit the platforms that people can choose to run it on compared to using MySQL.  Also can you be sure that there will always be a free version of MS SQL? 

As long as MySQL is opensource it can be kept available even if the project were to shutdown.  Since it was released under the GPL those versions will always be open even if Sun were to take later versions totally proprietary.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on June 25, 2008, 07:48:46 am
Is this a for sure. MS SQL comes in a free flavor as well  which is the reson for my question.

If it is on MS SQL you limit the platforms that people can choose to run it on compared to using MySQL.  Also can you be sure that there will always be a free version of MS SQL? 

As long as MySQL is opensource it can be kept available even if the project were to shutdown.  Since it was released under the GPL those versions will always be open even if Sun were to take later versions totally proprietary.

And since MySQL is crossplatform it keeps the door open for later.  Even if just the server kit is made to run on other platforms.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FA Frey XC on June 25, 2008, 08:16:27 am
Is this a for sure. MS SQL comes in a free flavor as well  which is the reson for my question.

If it is on MS SQL you limit the platforms that people can choose to run it on compared to using MySQL.  Also can you be sure that there will always be a free version of MS SQL? 

As long as MySQL is opensource it can be kept available even if the project were to shutdown.  Since it was released under the GPL those versions will always be open even if Sun were to take later versions totally proprietary.

The answer to that question is yes.

MS has , and I am sure will always provide a free copy of their SQL server for public use.

The difference? It will only run on a single CPU , virtual or physical.

Regards,
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on June 25, 2008, 08:19:13 am
Is this a for sure. MS SQL comes in a free flavor as well  which is the reson for my question.

If it is on MS SQL you limit the platforms that people can choose to run it on compared to using MySQL.  Also can you be sure that there will always be a free version of MS SQL? 

As long as MySQL is opensource it can be kept available even if the project were to shutdown.  Since it was released under the GPL those versions will always be open even if Sun were to take later versions totally proprietary.
If cross platform compatibility is a concern to the development group, it will mean they will have to develop two, three, or more executables for those who wish to host/play on other platforms. That is a lot to ask of volunteers whose plate will be full enough hacking out the windows compatible executable.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on June 25, 2008, 08:24:02 am
Is this a for sure. MS SQL comes in a free flavor as well  which is the reson for my question.

If it is on MS SQL you limit the platforms that people can choose to run it on compared to using MySQL.  Also can you be sure that there will always be a free version of MS SQL? 

As long as MySQL is opensource it can be kept available even if the project were to shutdown.  Since it was released under the GPL those versions will always be open even if Sun were to take later versions totally proprietary.

The answer to that question is yes.

MS has , and I am sure will always provide a free copy of their SQL server for public use.

The difference? It will only run on a single CPU , virtual or physical.

Regards,

Frey is correct. Prior to SQL 2005 there was MSDE. With the release of SQL 2005 there is SQL 2005Express. It is limited in a lot of way, but unless there is something I am unaware of with reagrds to the Server Kits (like a need for clustering or mirroring) the Express edition could very easily fill back end needs.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on June 25, 2008, 08:26:55 am
If cross platform compatibility is a concern to the development group, it will mean they will have to develop two, three, or more executables for those who wish to host/play on other platforms. That is a lot to ask of volunteers whose plate will be full enough hacking out the windows compatible executable.

Well, somewhat true.  You will have multiple executables, but they can all come from the same source code if written correctly for crossplatform compiles.  Crossplatform doesn't always mean a ton of more work, mainly working towards that goal from the start.  A few #defines and pulling machine specific code into seperate modules.  Good planning can save alot of work.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on June 25, 2008, 08:48:36 am
If cross platform compatibility is a concern to the development group, it will mean they will have to develop two, three, or more executables for those who wish to host/play on other platforms. That is a lot to ask of volunteers whose plate will be full enough hacking out the windows compatible executable.

Well, somewhat true.  You will have multiple executables, but they can all come from the same source code if written correctly for crossplatform compiles.  Crossplatform doesn't always mean a ton of more work, mainly working towards that goal from the start.  A few #defines and pulling machine specific code into seperate modules.  Good planning can save alot of work.

I hope that there will be those who wish to create exe for Mac, or Linux, and are given the opportunity. 
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on June 25, 2008, 08:59:37 am
If cross platform compatibility is a concern to the development group, it will mean they will have to develop two, three, or more executables for those who wish to host/play on other platforms. That is a lot to ask of volunteers whose plate will be full enough hacking out the windows compatible executable.

Well, somewhat true.  You will have multiple executables, but they can all come from the same source code if written correctly for crossplatform compiles.  Crossplatform doesn't always mean a ton of more work, mainly working towards that goal from the start.  A few #defines and pulling machine specific code into seperate modules.  Good planning can save alot of work.

I hope that there will be those who wish to create exe for Mac, or Linux, and are given the opportunity. 

Same here, some proper coding can have it run DirectX for Windows, and when compiled it can pull in OpenGL for the other systems (or just use OpenGL for all, but DirectX does have some advantages in the windows side, but would add more coding to double it up)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Nemesis on June 26, 2008, 07:46:58 pm
Is this a for sure. MS SQL comes in a free flavor as well  which is the reson for my question.


If it is on MS SQL you limit the platforms that people can choose to run it on compared to using MySQL.  Also can you be sure that there will always be a free version of MS SQL? 

As long as MySQL is opensource it can be kept available even if the project were to shutdown.  Since it was released under the GPL those versions will always be open even if Sun were to take later versions totally proprietary.


The answer to that question is yes.

MS has , and I am sure will always provide a free copy of their SQL server for public use.

The difference? It will only run on a single CPU , virtual or physical.

Regards


The limits on MS SQL are the best reason to use MySQL.

After what they did with PlaysForSure (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=11585) I wouldn't want to count on them keeping anything going if there isn't money in it.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on June 26, 2008, 08:34:09 pm
Is this a for sure. MS SQL comes in a free flavor as well  which is the reson for my question.


If it is on MS SQL you limit the platforms that people can choose to run it on compared to using MySQL.  Also can you be sure that there will always be a free version of MS SQL? 

As long as MySQL is opensource it can be kept available even if the project were to shutdown.  Since it was released under the GPL those versions will always be open even if Sun were to take later versions totally proprietary.


The answer to that question is yes.

MS has , and I am sure will always provide a free copy of their SQL server for public use.

The difference? It will only run on a single CPU , virtual or physical.

Regards


The limits on MS SQL are the best reason to use MySQL.

After what they did with PlaysForSure ([url]http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=11585[/url]) I wouldn't want to count on them keeping anything going if there isn't money in it.


I don't get it. Once DL-ed, what do we care what MS does about free software releases?

I can think of 5 concerns that far outweight any consideration about MS' continued support of free software releases.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Rod ONeal on June 27, 2008, 05:00:25 pm
What would make MS SQL a better choice?
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on June 27, 2008, 05:07:46 pm
What would make MS SQL a better choice?

If it was cross-platform.  If nothing else it would be nice to have the server be able to run on most platforms.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Nemesis on June 27, 2008, 05:28:36 pm
I don't get it. Once DL-ed, what do we care what MS does about free software releases?

I can think of 5 concerns that far outweight any consideration about MS' continued support of free software releases.

1/ Compatibility with future versions of Windows.  Not everyone will have old versions of Windows to run obsolete software

2/ Patching security flaws (or any flaw for that matter) that might arise after support was dropped.

3/ Acquisition. Does the MS license allow for distribution by others?  If not then someone who wanted to run a server after MS stopped distribution would have the choice of illegally acquaint one or not running a server.  The same applies to someone who had a legal copy but had it destroyed or lost in some fashion.

Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on June 27, 2008, 05:44:30 pm
I don't get it. Once DL-ed, what do we care what MS does about free software releases?

I can think of 5 concerns that far outweight any consideration about MS' continued support of free software releases.

1/ Compatibility with future versions of Windows.  Not everyone will have old versions of Windows to run obsolete software

2/ Patching security flaws (or any flaw for that matter) that might arise after support was dropped.

3/ Acquisition. Does the MS license allow for distribution by others?  If not then someone who wanted to run a server after MS stopped distribution would have the choice of illegally acquaint one or not running a server.  The same applies to someone who had a legal copy but had it destroyed or lost in some fashion.



1.) Doesn't wash.
2.) Isn't that what is being done here is the team is trying to develop SFC4? I see their work in part as trying to adopt and extend legacy software (Q3) to run on future versions of windows and extend it to embrace other OSs?
3.) Let's hope that the development team has the foresight/and or time to write the application in such a manner that future versions of the database application can be implemented with as little recompiling of exe as possible. But, no matter which base SQL Server solution is chosen, it is going to age and will need to be updated and modernized.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on June 27, 2008, 08:07:28 pm
I don't get it. Once DL-ed, what do we care what MS does about free software releases?

I can think of 5 concerns that far outweight any consideration about MS' continued support of free software releases.

1/ Compatibility with future versions of Windows.  Not everyone will have old versions of Windows to run obsolete software

2/ Patching security flaws (or any flaw for that matter) that might arise after support was dropped.

3/ Acquisition. Does the MS license allow for distribution by others?  If not then someone who wanted to run a server after MS stopped distribution would have the choice of illegally acquaint one or not running a server.  The same applies to someone who had a legal copy but had it destroyed or lost in some fashion.



1.) Doesn't wash.
2.) Isn't that what is being done here is the team is trying to develop SFC4? I see their work in part as trying to adopt and extend legacy software (Q3) to run on future versions of windows and extend it to embrace other OSs?
3.) Let's hope that the development team has the foresight/and or time to write the application in such a manner that future versions of the database application can be implemented with as little recompiling of exe as possible. But, no matter which base SQL Server solution is chosen, it is going to age and will need to be updated and modernized.

all three of your points link into one thing.  MS SQL is released for use, but not the source code.  Thus is they drop support for the free version.
1) as windows come out with new versions it is possible it will not work with it.
2) We can't update it without the source code
3) Following the coding specs of the SQL package will mostly illiminate the need for updating or moderizing the source, as you just install the newer version of SQL that is being maintained by someone else and you are up to date.  If some of the coding specs change then you will have to update the software to handle that.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on June 27, 2008, 10:55:54 pm
I don't get it. Once DL-ed, what do we care what MS does about free software releases?

I can think of 5 concerns that far outweight any consideration about MS' continued support of free software releases.

1/ Compatibility with future versions of Windows.  Not everyone will have old versions of Windows to run obsolete software

2/ Patching security flaws (or any flaw for that matter) that might arise after support was dropped.

3/ Acquisition. Does the MS license allow for distribution by others?  If not then someone who wanted to run a server after MS stopped distribution would have the choice of illegally acquaint one or not running a server.  The same applies to someone who had a legal copy but had it destroyed or lost in some fashion.



1.) Doesn't wash.
2.) Isn't that what is being done here is the team is trying to develop SFC4? I see their work in part as trying to adopt and extend legacy software (Q3) to run on future versions of windows and extend it to embrace other OSs?
3.) Let's hope that the development team has the foresight/and or time to write the application in such a manner that future versions of the database application can be implemented with as little recompiling of exe as possible. But, no matter which base SQL Server solution is chosen, it is going to age and will need to be updated and modernized.

all three of your points link into one thing.  MS SQL is released for use, but not the source code.  Thus is they drop support for the free version.
1) as windows come out with new versions it is possible it will not work with it.
2) We can't update it without the source code
3) Following the coding specs of the SQL package will mostly illiminate the need for updating or moderizing the source, as you just install the newer version of SQL that is being maintained by someone else and you are up to date.  If some of the coding specs change then you will have to update the software to handle that.

You can't update what without the source code?
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on June 28, 2008, 12:01:59 am
I don't get it. Once DL-ed, what do we care what MS does about free software releases?

I can think of 5 concerns that far outweight any consideration about MS' continued support of free software releases.

1/ Compatibility with future versions of Windows.  Not everyone will have old versions of Windows to run obsolete software

2/ Patching security flaws (or any flaw for that matter) that might arise after support was dropped.

3/ Acquisition. Does the MS license allow for distribution by others?  If not then someone who wanted to run a server after MS stopped distribution would have the choice of illegally acquaint one or not running a server.  The same applies to someone who had a legal copy but had it destroyed or lost in some fashion.



1.) Doesn't wash.
2.) Isn't that what is being done here is the team is trying to develop SFC4? I see their work in part as trying to adopt and extend legacy software (Q3) to run on future versions of windows and extend it to embrace other OSs?
3.) Let's hope that the development team has the foresight/and or time to write the application in such a manner that future versions of the database application can be implemented with as little recompiling of exe as possible. But, no matter which base SQL Server solution is chosen, it is going to age and will need to be updated and modernized.

all three of your points link into one thing.  MS SQL is released for use, but not the source code.  Thus is they drop support for the free version.
1) as windows come out with new versions it is possible it will not work with it.
2) We can't update it without the source code
3) Following the coding specs of the SQL package will mostly illiminate the need for updating or moderizing the source, as you just install the newer version of SQL that is being maintained by someone else and you are up to date.  If some of the coding specs change then you will have to update the software to handle that.

You can't update what without the source code?

The SQL if MS drops their version you are stuck with whatever it was at that time.  MySQL is opensource and has people updating it, so even if support is dropped for it, you could work on it yourself.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on June 28, 2008, 08:27:02 am
I don't get it. Once DL-ed, what do we care what MS does about free software releases?

I can think of 5 concerns that far outweight any consideration about MS' continued support of free software releases.

1/ Compatibility with future versions of Windows.  Not everyone will have old versions of Windows to run obsolete software

2/ Patching security flaws (or any flaw for that matter) that might arise after support was dropped.

3/ Acquisition. Does the MS license allow for distribution by others?  If not then someone who wanted to run a server after MS stopped distribution would have the choice of illegally acquaint one or not running a server.  The same applies to someone who had a legal copy but had it destroyed or lost in some fashion.



1.) Doesn't wash.
2.) Isn't that what is being done here is the team is trying to develop SFC4? I see their work in part as trying to adopt and extend legacy software (Q3) to run on future versions of windows and extend it to embrace other OSs?
3.) Let's hope that the development team has the foresight/and or time to write the application in such a manner that future versions of the database application can be implemented with as little recompiling of exe as possible. But, no matter which base SQL Server solution is chosen, it is going to age and will need to be updated and modernized.

all three of your points link into one thing.  MS SQL is released for use, but not the source code.  Thus is they drop support for the free version.
1) as windows come out with new versions it is possible it will not work with it.
2) We can't update it without the source code
3) Following the coding specs of the SQL package will mostly illiminate the need for updating or moderizing the source, as you just install the newer version of SQL that is being maintained by someone else and you are up to date.  If some of the coding specs change then you will have to update the software to handle that.

You can't update what without the source code?

The SQL if MS drops their version you are stuck with whatever it was at that time.  MySQL is opensource and has people updating it, so even if support is dropped for it, you could work on it yourself.

Any SQL Admin worth his salt can upgrade to the current iteration of MS SQL any MS SQL server database and or server going back to SQL Server 6.5.  And yes, just like MS SQL, there will be sp_xx and Datatypes that will need conversion or replacement.  8)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on June 28, 2008, 01:58:22 pm

Any SQL Admin worth his salt can upgrade to the current iteration of MS SQL any MS SQL server database and or server going back to SQL Server 6.5.  And yes, just like MS SQL, there will be sp_xx and Datatypes that will need conversion or replacement.  8)

no you miss the point.  If MS drops the free SQL versions, then you would have to buy the it for whatever MS wants to charge.  Thus for the free version you are stuck with that one forever, and it may not work on the next OS (MS might change things anough that it will brake)

Thus it isn't just installing the new version (yeah that is easy) as there will not be any current iterations for you to use if support is dropped.  Thus you would be left to maintain it yourself and without the code you can't do that. 

And if you hardcoded in MSSQL then you would end up having to rework your old code to support a new SQL you could work with.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on June 28, 2008, 04:27:29 pm

Any SQL Admin worth his salt can upgrade to the current iteration of MS SQL any MS SQL server database and or server going back to SQL Server 6.5.  And yes, just like MS SQL, there will be sp_xx and Datatypes that will need conversion or replacement.  8)

no you miss the point.  If MS drops the free SQL versions, then you would have to buy the it for whatever MS wants to charge.  Thus for the free version you are stuck with that one forever, and it may not work on the next OS (MS might change things anough that it will brake)

Thus it isn't just installing the new version (yeah that is easy) as there will not be any current iterations for you to use if support is dropped.  Thus you would be left to maintain it yourself and without the code you can't do that. 

And if you hardcoded in MSSQL then you would end up having to rework your old code to support a new SQL you could work with.

So, I guess it boils down to nothing more than being open source or not?
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Rod ONeal on June 28, 2008, 04:37:54 pm
What's the reason(s) to use MS SQL instead of MySQL? I know servers have been run on MySQL. Seems that it would be easier to continue on with that work, but maybe not. Is there a reason to switch to MS SQL that might be an improvement or help somehow?
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on June 28, 2008, 05:50:16 pm
What's the reason(s) to use MS SQL instead of MySQL? I know servers have been run on MySQL. Seems that it would be easier to continue on with that work, but maybe not. Is there a reason to switch to MS SQL that might be an improvement or help somehow?

Ron--

Dunno. I'm not on the development team. I do know that what little I do know of the development, I would not be as quick as some to dismiss MS SQL 2005 Express as a viable option.

I wish I could say more...
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on June 28, 2008, 05:51:06 pm
What would make MS SQL a better choice?

 :-X
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Rod ONeal on June 28, 2008, 08:53:14 pm
What would make MS SQL a better choice?

 :-X

Ah, it's a secret! Fair enough. I guess we'll see? 8)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on June 28, 2008, 09:22:27 pm

Any SQL Admin worth his salt can upgrade to the current iteration of MS SQL any MS SQL server database and or server going back to SQL Server 6.5.  And yes, just like MS SQL, there will be sp_xx and Datatypes that will need conversion or replacement.  8)

no you miss the point.  If MS drops the free SQL versions, then you would have to buy the it for whatever MS wants to charge.  Thus for the free version you are stuck with that one forever, and it may not work on the next OS (MS might change things anough that it will brake)

Thus it isn't just installing the new version (yeah that is easy) as there will not be any current iterations for you to use if support is dropped.  Thus you would be left to maintain it yourself and without the code you can't do that. 

And if you hardcoded in MSSQL then you would end up having to rework your old code to support a new SQL you could work with.

So, I guess it boils down to nothing more than being open source or not?

I would think it isn't just that it is open source, but that I for one do not trust MS to keep a product line free.  Standard idea is like a drug dealer giving out free samples.  Get them hooked on it, then put in the cost.  Happens all the time.  The opensource part just lets you know it will be free forever, unlike the MS product.  Microsoft might also try and charge for a license version for the developers to use to make the product even tho the end-user can use the free version.  I have seen that also, the main money comes from the companies who use it to make the programs and the end user can get it free (that is how PDF works, anyone can read it for free so it is a great way to put out your documents, but to write it you needed to buy the program to get the writer).
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on June 28, 2008, 09:25:12 pm
What's the reason(s) to use MS SQL instead of MySQL? I know servers have been run on MySQL. Seems that it would be easier to continue on with that work, but maybe not. Is there a reason to switch to MS SQL that might be an improvement or help somehow?

Ron--

Dunno. I'm not on the development team. I do know that what little I do know of the development, I would not be as quick as some to dismiss MS SQL 2005 Express as a viable option.

I wish I could say more...


The other and probably best reason MySQL is a better choice is that it is already coded for server use right now.  So it would be just following along the path of least resistance (no changes needed to keep it).  Simple is probably the best answer (we already use it so why change, unless there is a big improvement to do so).
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Cyberkada on June 28, 2008, 10:01:08 pm
AFAIK, MySQL does require a $600/ server license  for any software not released under GPL or LGPL.

SQLite might be a better option.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: TFO Ghost on June 29, 2008, 06:49:47 pm
Ok i didn't bother to read but the first 3 posts in this thread so if i missed something fill me in but hey I can do modeling with 3ds MAX and i am also a student at ITT-Tech and know alot of others that might be interested in helping out so i'll pass the word around on the project at school and have them post here too, and i will start working on some 3d ship models in the mean time If there is anything else email me or tell Killswitch and he will get me on vent or just jump on the TFO vent and chat. 8)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on June 29, 2008, 07:09:26 pm
What would make MS SQL a better choice?

 :-X

Ah, it's a secret! Fair enough. I guess we'll see? 8)

Thanks Rod. Though, I just want to clarify that it is not so much a secret, as it is a matter that I have no right to post about a project that;

1.) I am not a member/developer on
2.) Do not have Frey's "all-clear" to relate.

What little I do know of the project I think MS SQL would be a very tight fit. But my opinion is based on a small amount of information . I'm confident the project leads will choose applications, servers, and IDEs that are best for the project.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Pestalence_XC on July 01, 2008, 10:27:15 am
The reason MySQL is so popular with the SFC titles is because it works with the server kits better.. Taldren was the first to try SQL implementation and they tried both MS SQL and MySql.. the server kit at the time was much more stable under MySQL, at least according to Kenneth Yeast's Dynaverse Admins Group in Yahoo...

From there, Bonk and most of the Dyna Admins have been working on the kit with MySQL .. I'm not sure how stable MS SQL would be with Build 37 of the server kit.

I remember trying to use MS SQL with the server kit build 35 and I had a hard time getting MS SQL to recognize the kit.. and once I did get it to recognize, it was difficult for options to be adjusted in the kit.

However under MySQL, it recognized the server kit off the bat and working options in, though needing skill or borrowing scripts (as in  my case) for MySQL, it was easier to do changes on the fly.. Bonk is the master on it currently.

There is good and bad on both sides, but the major plus for me would be Open Source of the MySQL code .. this would allow for the programmers to go into MySQL source and make alterations.. MS SQL is a private code and alterations at the source levels are not possible, so that is a limitation to begin with..
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on July 01, 2008, 08:59:50 pm
Thanks Pesty. I didn't know that Taldren had hooked MySql. It makes sense though.

I guess if the developers are going to try to use and maintain the old code base then it would make sense to use MySql. Otoh, if, as I hope, the project is going to develop things from the ground up, so to speak, many new features could be introduced while discarding a lot of the flaws and limitations of the old code base. I know this means an almost onerious timeline for the community, and it also means the possibility losing some of the good nuggests in the old code base. No way to ignore those ugly possibilites.

I think the results of a better scripting engine/interface; strong, more robust, stable server kit(s); and probably 25 other features I haven't thought of being included in a new code base make any negative result by abandoning the original code base worth the loss.

And, C# and MSSQL with managed code rock.  8)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on July 30, 2008, 10:13:56 pm
I have an interesting question.. What new things will work with the other SFC games, Will SFCers be able to access the q3files? and other files that were denied access too?

Well, Q3 is half broken out now, just need to get the image files to work out and that would be modifiable.

Did you finally crack this nut or not?
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on July 30, 2008, 10:25:36 pm
I have an interesting question.. What new things will work with the other SFC games, Will SFCers be able to access the q3files? and other files that were denied access too?

Well, Q3 is half broken out now, just need to get the image files to work out and that would be modifiable.

Did you finally crack this nut or not?

I got most of it (sort of), a few things in the format that I need to hammer out but still working on the graphics (as to what format so I can load and look at them).  Once I can look at the graphic images each area works with it will speed up what each asset type does.

I understand basicly how a screen or a subsection basicly gets put togeather.   Once I can see the images, then I will know what the three images some buttons point to, or the pair and two seperate images a scroll p0ints at and it will help.

Been reading up on graphic formats but still no joy.  Hopefully soon.

Of course, my laptop where I have done all the work on dying hasn't helped matters any either (but I did do alot of the figuring out on paper so I have some backup paperwork).  Oh to see the data structures that load the assets, but I dream.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on July 31, 2008, 09:16:59 pm
SFC 4 will be a stand alone production and will not require EAW, OP or SFC 3 installed to play.

Do we know if this is still the situation?
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Fornax on August 03, 2008, 10:00:20 pm
Wow, interesting.  A friend pointed me back at this site - feel like I haven't been here in ages.

Sure seems like you have quite a bit of help coming in from the community on this one.  A thought or two I had from the fellow who mentioned ST: Supremacy.  I like the idea of open source - a lot of what was stated - however, that may not be available for SFC4.  As I recall, ADB picked up the license to do SFB on the cheap - before Paramount figured out what they had in their inventory.  The rights to do SFC at all was sort of a miracle in that the groups finally agreed to do anything and not continue to argue.  I do not know, at all, what happened to the SFC1/2/OP/3 rights although I remember the names of some of the people who had full code access (like Mags!)...but I suspect they're still locked up a little between ADP & Paramount.  I wouldn't even be surprised if Activision (or their successor) still had a piece.

Second, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole SFC4 project weren't much more than a tweak/update of one of the earlier generations of the series.  Basically, they work.  Why reinvent the wheel if you've got something that meets the technical criteria.  I've always felt that's been why the modding community did so well with this game...and how things like simply re-writing the shiplist worked.

That doesn't mean vast sections wouldn't be updated/altered.  Flatfile databases just plain stink for performance - I believe that was the point of the late conversion attempt to using MySQL for the Dynaverse play.

Keep in mind, these are just my guesses from information that was current...oh...4 or 5 years ago.

Sadly, my relevant credentials are limited to having been a Taldren beta tester (and then one of the few in the Activision Visioneer program)...
I have no idea if I'll make the time to play this game, however, I can guarantee I'll buy the darn thing just to support the effort.  I can't even guess how many thousand(s) of hours I put into playing back when these games were live.

I do have one request/suggestion.  I suspect you're probably already on this.  My opinion was that EAW and then OP was pretty much complete from a SFB point of view.  The only real missing component was the Dynaverse.  Yeah, it's there - and it works - we all remember the problems.  Loved it when it was up - but frankly, the dynaverse really was just an enhancement of the campaign/single player system.

This is the area where the game would shine - this is the point that would re-sell me on the game.  Design and build a multiplayer campaign system along the lines of the best community driven efforts (not dynaverse) - I mean the actual campaigns.  Remember Starlance?  GamerZ?  Design a system that allows the flexibility of providing that kind of campaign mode AND then the option of a much more dynamic Dynaverse type approach.

Nax
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Pestalence_XC on August 03, 2008, 10:24:15 pm
Wow, interesting. A friend pointed me back at this site - feel like I haven't been here in ages.


Welcome Back

Quote
Sure seems like you have quite a bit of help coming in from the community on this one. A thought or two I had from the fellow who mentioned ST: Supremacy. I like the idea of open source - a lot of what was stated - however, that may not be available for SFC4. As I recall, ADB picked up the license to do SFB on the cheap - before Paramount figured out what they had in their inventory. The rights to do SFC at all was sort of a miracle in that the groups finally agreed to do anything and not continue to argue. I do not know, at all, what happened to the SFC1/2/OP/3 rights although I remember the names of some of the people who had full code access (like Mags!)...but I suspect they're still locked up a little between ADP & Paramount. I wouldn't even be surprised if Activision (or their successor) still had a piece.


MagnumMan gave Frey the SFC II : EAW Source Code

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163376333.0.html

Quote
Second, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole SFC4 project weren't much more than a tweak/update of one of the earlier generations of the series. Basically, they work. Why reinvent the wheel if you've got something that meets the technical criteria. I've always felt that's been why the modding community did so well with this game...and how things like simply re-writing the shiplist worked.


SFC 4 is using the EAW source for the primary game systems, however much more is going to be added.. not just for looks, but functionality, bugs, etc..

Quote
That doesn't mean vast sections wouldn't be updated/altered. Flatfile databases just plain stink for performance - I believe that was the point of the late conversion attempt to using MySQL for the Dynaverse play.

Keep in mind, these are just my guesses from information that was current...oh...4 or 5 years ago.

Sadly, my relevant credentials are limited to having been a Taldren beta tester (and then one of the few in the Activision Visioneer program)...
I have no idea if I'll make the time to play this game, however, I can guarantee I'll buy the darn thing just to support the effort. I can't even guess how many thousand(s) of hours I put into playing back when these games were live.

I do have one request/suggestion. I suspect you're probably already on this. My opinion was that EAW and then OP was pretty much complete from a SFB point of view. The only real missing component was the Dynaverse. Yeah, it's there - and it works - we all remember the problems. Loved it when it was up - but frankly, the dynaverse really was just an enhancement of the campaign/single player system.


Dynaverse.net recieved the Directory servers from Taldren before Taldren closed as well as integrating Taldren's forums into our own.. Dynaverse.net is basically the sanctioned home for the Starfleet Command game series.. Activision even turned over the directory servers for SFC 3 to D.Net.

all the servers are online and people can host their own servers, all the client or server admin needs to do is apply the Dynaverse Directory Server Fix for the respective game which is located in our Downloads section in order to rejoin the Dynaverse.. However Dynaverse is only XP compatible.. Vista lags severely on the D2.. D3 is uneffected and will work on vista just fine.

Quote
This is the area where the game would shine - this is the point that would re-sell me on the game. Design and build a multiplayer campaign system along the lines of the best community driven efforts (not dynaverse) - I mean the actual campaigns. Remember Starlance? GamerZ? Design a system that allows the flexibility of providing that kind of campaign mode AND then the option of a much more dynamic Dynaverse type approach.

Nax


there are several ideas like that floating around in the public development forum area .. look at the main bord directory and enter the SFC 4 section, then go into the Public Development sub forum and start reading the ideas, and post your own thoughts there.. development is coming from that area.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Verroc on August 11, 2008, 07:35:53 am
I'm in my degree year, of Games Software Development. My programming prob isn't at the required level yet, however we program in C++ and C#. We also study games design, development, marketing and testing in detail. If i could help with anything i'd be more than happy to.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FCM_SFHQ_XC on August 12, 2008, 04:31:42 pm
I'm in my degree year, of Games Software Development. My programming prob isn't at the required level yet, however we program in C++ and C#. We also study games design, development, marketing and testing in detail. If i could help with anything i'd be more than happy to.
Send in an application :)
Quote
If you would like to help out with this project, please fill out the form below and submit it to frey@xenocorp.net. All information is required.  Your name and address will be kept confidential and are only required to send the required paperwork.

The current plans on the table have the project being written in either C++ or C#, so programmers who would like to join the team must be fluent with the C/C++ language.

Name:
Address:
Phone# :

Job (IE: Programmer):
Skills (IE: C++/SQL):

Contact Email:

MSN Messenger (If applicable):

Please include a piece of sample of your work as an attachment.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Scrag on August 22, 2008, 04:10:48 pm
I just read this been deployed overseas for a while....
Holy Crap!!!!!
Keep charging - I wish I had the skill set you guys need but all I can do is standby to buy the game when it comes out. 
Outstanding.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on August 22, 2008, 05:44:33 pm
I just read this been deployed overseas for a while....
Holy Crap!!!!!
Keep charging - I wish I had the skill set you guys need but all I can do is standby to buy the game when it comes out. 
Outstanding.

No purchase will be required.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Centurus on August 22, 2008, 05:55:00 pm
I just read this been deployed overseas for a while....
Holy Crap!!!!!
Keep charging - I wish I had the skill set you guys need but all I can do is standby to buy the game when it comes out. 
Outstanding.

No purchase will be required.

I believe when he said to keep charging, he meant to charge forward, as in to keep it up and keep going forward with the project.  Not to charge for the product when done.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ramagar on September 02, 2008, 12:16:13 pm
Hey all!

My opinion is this.  The reason SFC3 and ST Legacy were so dismal is they were dumbed down so badley and so unbalanced that gameplay was horrible.  Using SFB as a backbone to base the game off of makes so much sense because it's a tried and true system.  If you want the game to be canon consider adding the other races and creating weapons off the SFB weapon charts like the TR beams on the andro's.  Adding MORE sfb into the game would enhance gameplay by a huge factor.

1) Make the cloak if not easier to lock onto the ship a timer that the ship must uncloak and stay uncloaked for a time.  ie make it possible to remain loacked onto a cloaked ship.

2) Reduce cloaking ship costs

3) Correctly institute ECM and ECCM.  (Scouts, ECM drones, offensive EW defensive EW etc..)

4) Create diferent levels of gameplay Captains level vs Cadet level.  One level with EW and advanced rules the other with EW etc....

5) Add the other races into the game.  ie Tholians, Seltorians and Andro's.

6) Increase team size.

7) Enforce SFB loadouts on ships.  Late war = fast drones etc... BTW this will allow ships like the KCR to be around to fight the C7 etc.

8)  Reduce ship internals by 1/4 or 1/2.  Reduce shielding.

9) Allow for foward and reverse movement.

10) Implement the Orions properly and allow people to be able to outfit their ships with equipment.  Give the non-engine doubled Pirates their +2 ECM.


You get the idea.  I think that making the game MORE like SFB alot of the issues will work themselves out.  The unbalancing factor is when someone arbitrarilly decides what is balanced and not balanced.  Deciding canon is more important than balanced gameplay...a HUGE nono.  SFB has been around for bleems and SFC for all it's flaws was WAAAYYYYY better than sfc3 or ugghhh Legacy.


Ramagar-iCoP

Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: EmeraldEdge on September 07, 2008, 02:30:05 pm
Man, heard about this on a completely unrelated forum and had to come check it out.  I'll give it a look over, but I might be willing to help with music, art, or voice overs.  If it's pans out, I don't know if I could contain myself.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Scott_Bruno on September 22, 2008, 06:57:39 pm
Hey all!

My opinion is this.  The reason SFC3 and ST Legacy were so dismal is they were dumbed down

Thanks! And I'm sure the last couple years' worth of whatever work you do were complete sh*t.


Anyway, I think this is a great idea. My only real regret over the timeline of that company was that the code wasn't released to you guys sooner. When Taldren went down it did so still owing a lot of its people money, so I truly expected to see the code appear on the 'net the very same day. If I wasn't so sh*tfaced that night at the office I woulda' done it myself, but me & Ortiz were hitting that 151 pretty hard. Oof.

So yeah, it was trippy to find this news because I was just playing around with the idea of doing a space combat game myself. Well ok, I got a little further than 'playing around'. I'd offer to help but to be honest I don't remember a damn thing about how it works... except that some of it was needlessly cryptic, and that some of it was done by an angry, angry man.
 


 
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Centurus on September 22, 2008, 07:23:39 pm
Done by an angry, angry man?  That's why when I used to test out a ship in SFC3 my first officer at the time constantly insulted me and threatened to superglue my toilet seat to my butt.   ;D

J/K

But in all honestly, hell, if you can program, trust me, the SFC4 project needs you.

Oh, and one more thing.  I like SFC3.  Wish it had the chance for further development before release, but that's Assavision's fault.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on September 22, 2008, 07:34:57 pm
Done by an angry, angry man?  That's why when I used to test out a ship in SFC3 my first officer at the time constantly insulted me and threatened to superglue my toilet seat to my butt.   ;D

J/K

But in all honestly, hell, if you can program, trust me, the SFC4 project needs you.

Oh, and one more thing.  I like SFC3.  Wish it had the chance for further development before release, but that's Assavision's fault.

 I liked SFC 3 as well and agree. I honestly don't think it was given a chance to shine.

 If the Comunity had as much,will to mod it, and redo the ship list as they did with OP. It would have turned out to be a better game.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Centurus on September 22, 2008, 07:46:26 pm
If only we had the SFC3 game code and some of the original people that worked on the SFC3 code, well, imagine the possibilities.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on September 22, 2008, 08:10:55 pm
If only we had the SFC3 game code and some of the original people that worked on the SFC3 code, well, imagine the possibilities.

 I have!! I wish!!! With all the genius we have here, it would become a thing to behold.

 That was one (Of many) of Craptivisions big mistakes, Pooh-poohing the Comunity, and all of the knowledge,and expertice here.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Scott_Bruno on September 22, 2008, 08:13:26 pm
Done by an angry, angry man?  That's why when I used to test out a ship in SFC3 my first officer at the time constantly insulted me and threatened to superglue my toilet seat to my butt.   ;D

Heh :)

Quote
Oh, and one more thing.  I like SFC3.  Wish it had the chance for further development before release, but that's Assavision's fault.

No, it's really not. Up until the squabble over that patch, you can blame us for everything that was wrong with that game. Any reports to the contrary were damage control -- or to be blunt about it, bullsh*t. The Powers That Be'd (quasi-humorous past tense) were pulling people off of SFC3 left and right to go to work on Black Hole -- I mean Black 9 -- all along. Hell dude, I don't even think I was on SFC3 when it shipped. It might only have been Dave F. at that point and I know he gave it all the love he could. Don't blame Activision.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on September 22, 2008, 08:20:36 pm
Done by an angry, angry man?  That's why when I used to test out a ship in SFC3 my first officer at the time constantly insulted me and threatened to superglue my toilet seat to my butt.   ;D

Heh :)

Quote
Oh, and one more thing.  I like SFC3.  Wish it had the chance for further development before release, but that's Assavision's fault.

No, it's really not. Up until the squabble over that patch, you can blame us for everything that was wrong with that game. Any reports to the contrary were damage control -- or to be blunt about it, bullsh*t. The Powers That Be'd (quasi-humorous past tense) were pulling people off of SFC3 left and right to go to work on Black Hole -- I mean Black 9 -- all along. Hell dude, I don't even think I was on SFC3 when it shipped. It might only have been Dave F. at that point and I know he gave it all the love he could. Don't blame Activision.

 Thanks for the info. but with all the half a$$ed games they have released,its second nature.

 And im pissed, they didn't give it more time to grow.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Corbomite on September 22, 2008, 09:01:49 pm
...But in all honestly, hell, if you can program, trust me, the SFC4 project needs you.


Truly! If nothing else maybe you could give them a hint at how to make the OP/SFC3-like modifications they need to make to the EAW code. Sigh, I wish just one of you had saved the OP code.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Scott_Bruno on September 22, 2008, 11:04:49 pm
...But in all honestly, hell, if you can program, trust me, the SFC4 project needs you.


Truly! If nothing else maybe you could give them a hint at how to make the OP/SFC3-like modifications they need to make to the EAW code. Sigh, I wish just one of you had saved the OP code.

I'm not even sure if we preserved a branch of OP. Well I'm sure we would have archived it to disc at some point but Clapton only knows where that might be. As a company, our process was a little flaky sometimes. Like, for the first few weeks of its life OP existed only on my computer. Madness.

I do remember that there were some fairly fundamental changes between OP and 3. In some cases, systems were burned pretty much down to the ground in order to support the new design. Honestly I wouldn't worry too much about how we did a given thing. Without the code to refer to you'll get a bigger payoff by solving those riddles your own way.

In fact... oh boy, here we go. Ok. Even with SFC3's modability factor there were still certain things we wanted to achieve but couldn't for lack of time. We never reached total end-user mod capability. Most notably (from memory) was the weapon code... which by extension blames the overall architecture of the engine. Generally speaking we never achieved a true separation of engine and game which is why there are severe limitations in modding it. Now I think Marc did a terrific job with the refit system (Marc was one of the good guys who really cared) but even so, there's so much more you could do.

We talked about pushing certain things out into one or more "game-specific" dlls but we never got around to it. The theory was that only the generic interface & internals would live in the .exe, while all game-specific implementations would get pushed out into a .dll. Well, I'm not sure any of those discussions actually made it that far but that would have been the theory if they had.

What are you guys doing with the renderer? It's not even DirectX 9 is it? From EAW? I think hardware acceleration was even optional back then. Unfortunately I remember AFN about how the renderer works in that game. When I went to Shiny I had to purge the SFC engine from my brain to fit Shiny's in there. Taldren... render... absolute blank. Whatever, it's ancient and it's likely the whole thing has to go if you really want to make use of DX9/10.

I'm pretty sure the network code was a big pile of suck, too. That caused so many problems dude, it's not even funny. We so badly wanted to up the player limit per game. I mean come on, six people per game in the 21st f*****g century? Really? Six? I call shinanegins (is there a right way to spell that?). The network code should be cast into the hellfire from whence it came.

Oh no wait, I'm sorry. It's not the network that came from yonder hellfire. It was that mu********ing UI... that blood-sucking, soul-stealing thing called QUIL, and all its minion code that came with it. Wow, I had totally blocked it out. My advice? Dispose of it. As UI theories go, QUIL is right up there with the flat earth people. I mean, anything that begins by hacking some commercial app's file format probably isn't going to end well, you know?

Have you guys considered leveraging existing technology with free licenses that would be 100% compatible with your project? Like, using Ogre as the renderer or something. Ogre is seriously f*cking over-engineered if you ask me (and I realize you didn't) but, I can almost see in my head right now how you could adapt it to SFC fairly easily. And poof, you have a cross-platform renderer.

Man, maybe it's because I just burned a doob but suddenly the idea of turning out an SFC with modern visuals just gave me geekwood.

Damn you guys for making me think about this stuff!  :D

Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on September 22, 2008, 11:20:42 pm
Hot damn, that was a fun read. Thanks dude!
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on September 22, 2008, 11:50:08 pm
...But in all honestly, hell, if you can program, trust me, the SFC4 project needs you.


Truly! If nothing else maybe you could give them a hint at how to make the OP/SFC3-like modifications they need to make to the EAW code. Sigh, I wish just one of you had saved the OP code.

I'm not even sure if we preserved a branch of OP. Well I'm sure we would have archived it to disc at some point but Clapton only knows where that might be. As a company, our process was a little flaky sometimes. Like, for the first few weeks of its life OP existed only on my computer. Madness.

I do remember that there were some fairly fundamental changes between OP and 3. In some cases, systems were burned pretty much down to the ground in order to support the new design. Honestly I wouldn't worry too much about how we did a given thing. Without the code to refer to you'll get a bigger payoff by solving those riddles your own way.

In fact... oh boy, here we go. Ok. Even with SFC3's modability factor there were still certain things we wanted to achieve but couldn't for lack of time. We never reached total end-user mod capability. Most notably (from memory) was the weapon code... which by extension blames the overall architecture of the engine. Generally speaking we never achieved a true separation of engine and game which is why there are severe limitations in modding it. Now I think Marc did a terrific job with the refit system (Marc was one of the good guys who really cared) but even so, there's so much more you could do.

We talked about pushing certain things out into one or more "game-specific" dlls but we never got around to it. The theory was that only the generic interface & internals would live in the .exe, while all game-specific implementations would get pushed out into a .dll. Well, I'm not sure any of those discussions actually made it that far but that would have been the theory if they had.

What are you guys doing with the renderer? It's not even DirectX 9 is it? From EAW? I think hardware acceleration was even optional back then. Unfortunately I remember AFN about how the renderer works in that game. When I went to Shiny I had to purge the SFC engine from my brain to fit Shiny's in there. Taldren... render... absolute blank. Whatever, it's ancient and it's likely the whole thing has to go if you really want to make use of DX9/10.

I'm pretty sure the network code was a big pile of suck, too. That caused so many problems dude, it's not even funny. We so badly wanted to up the player limit per game. I mean come on, six people per game in the 21st f*****g century? Really? Six? I call shinanegins (is there a right way to spell that?). The network code should be cast into the hellfire from whence it came.

Oh no wait, I'm sorry. It's not the network that came from yonder hellfire. It was that mu********ing UI... that blood-sucking, soul-stealing thing called QUIL, and all its minion code that came with it. Wow, I had totally blocked it out. My advice? Dispose of it. As UI theories go, QUIL is right up there with the flat earth people. I mean, anything that begins by hacking some commercial app's file format probably isn't going to end well, you know?

Have you guys considered leveraging existing technology with free licenses that would be 100% compatible with your project? Like, using Ogre as the renderer or something. Ogre is seriously f*cking over-engineered if you ask me (and I realize you didn't) but, I can almost see in my head right now how you could adapt it to SFC fairly easily. And poof, you have a cross-platform renderer.

Man, maybe it's because I just burned a doob but suddenly the idea of turning out an SFC with modern visuals just gave me geekwood.

Damn you guys for making me think about this stuff!  :D



 Damm man fire another one up, and keep me thinking!! This is getting me excited as heck !!

 And Thanks!! :) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Czar Mohab on September 23, 2008, 12:10:25 am
I rarely have much of value to contribute.

But to answer your question,


I call shinanegins (is there a right way to spell that?).


"shenanigans"

Czar "Sure is a right way to spell that," Mohab[/color]
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Corbomite on September 23, 2008, 07:53:34 am
Hot damn, that was a fun read. Thanks dude!


I second that!!  ;D



I'm pretty sure the network code was a big pile of suck, too. That caused so many problems dude, it's not even funny. We so badly wanted to up the player limit per game. I mean come on, six people per game in the 21st f*****g century? Really? Six? I call shinanegins (is there a right way to spell that?). The network code should be cast into the hellfire from whence it came.


Couldn't agree more. We want at least ten per side.


Oh no wait, I'm sorry. It's not the network that came from yonder hellfire. It was that mu********ing UI... that blood-sucking, soul-stealing thing called QUIL, and all its minion code that came with it. Wow, I had totally blocked it out. My advice? Dispose of it. As UI theories go, QUIL is right up there with the flat earth people. I mean, anything that begins by hacking some commercial app's file format probably isn't going to end well, you know?


You have no idea how much trouble this has caused us. There is a whole thread devoted to cracking it. AFAIK they barely scratched it.



Seriously though, anything you could do to help, I mean anything, would be greatly appreciated. We might even be able to get up a collection to pay you for your time (assuming that's legal). Please contact Frey or Pestalence on these boards. They are the project head and manager.

Thanks for coming by Scott! Wow, Dave and Scott in one week. We were blessed!  :D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Scott_Bruno on September 23, 2008, 12:28:20 pm
The next one who says the word 'pay' gets a torpedo for his trouble; I would never take a dime from you people. By the end, and like most people, I hated the company. But I always loved this game.

Also, I forgot that my normal, sailor-inspired speech patterns were against the forum rules here. By way of apology I’ll have myself agonized later.

To be honest, about a year ago Frey did ask me if I would be interested and I passed. It was a little bit because I wasn't sure of the legal situation, a little bit because I was really fed up with the game industry at the time and I couldn't fathom taking more work home with me, and a little because I didn't think I wanted to do it if it was just going to be the Mother of All Mods rather than a full-tilt project.

Part of me (a few parts) would love to tear into it and replace the whole darn renderer. So much has changed since then and the thought of applying what we’ve learned to SFC is very exciting to me. One of the truly neat things about a space game is that most of the world is empty space. You’re not spending all that time drawing walls, trees and waving blades of grass. You don’t have a screenful of human-ish skeletons to update. You can therefore go hog-wild on the relatively few things you are drawing; especially today, with the state of hardware being what it is.

I don’t know. I don’t know what the plan calls for but it seems too exciting not to go for it.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on September 23, 2008, 12:41:02 pm
The next one who says the word 'pay' gets a torpedo for his trouble; I would never take a dime from you people. By the end, and like most people, I hated the company. But I always loved this game.

Also, I forgot that my normal, sailor-inspired speech patterns were against the forum rules here. By way of apology I’ll have myself agonized later.

To be honest, about a year ago Frey did ask me if I would be interested and I passed. It was a little bit because I wasn't sure of the legal situation, a little bit because I was really fed up with the game industry at the time and I couldn't fathom taking more work home with me, and a little because I didn't think I wanted to do it if it was just going to be the Mother of All Mods rather than a full-tilt project.

Part of me (a few parts) would love to tear into it and replace the whole darn renderer. So much has changed since then and the thought of applying what we’ve learned to SFC is very exciting to me. One of the truly neat things about a space game is that most of the world is empty space. You’re not spending all that time drawing walls, trees and waving blades of grass. You don’t have a screenful of human-ish skeletons to update. You can therefore go hog-wild on the relatively few things you are drawing; especially today, with the state of hardware being what it is.

I don’t know. I don’t know what the plan calls for but it seems too exciting not to go for it.


 Scott if you can find the time,,and the will PLEASE ! , Do it, I would truly to see your genius unleashed.

 Truly!! I don't even have words eloquent enough to express myself. It would be a dream come true for all of us.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on September 23, 2008, 01:00:29 pm
I'm not sure where things stand, but with you onboard I know the project would be complete.  8)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Scott_Bruno on September 23, 2008, 01:03:32 pm
Well it's not up to me. It's not my game or my plan and I have no idea what they have in mind. All I'm saying is, I'm willing to help out.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on September 23, 2008, 01:21:06 pm
You have no idea how much trouble this has caused us. There is a whole thread devoted to cracking it. AFAIK they barely scratched it.


I have alot of it figured out so far the Q3 part, I think the Quil part is coded in the main program somewhere or in the chernobyle box part.

working on the RLE of the images now.  Slow, slow.

But still no word if it is all for naught when SFC4 does come out.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Scott_Bruno on September 23, 2008, 01:31:10 pm
You have no idea how much trouble this has caused us. There is a whole thread devoted to cracking it. AFAIK they barely scratched it.


I have alot of it figured out so far the Q3 part, I think the Quil part is coded in the main program somewhere or in the chernobyle box part.

working on the RLE of the images now.  Slow, slow.

But still no word if it is all for naught when SFC4 does come out.

I'm not sure if we even had the source. I thought the real bowels of SWIL lived in a library or two that we linked with. I could be wrong; it's been quite a while. There was some kind of goofy wrapper added later on that really didn't change anything, but that would have been SFC3 code anyway.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on September 23, 2008, 01:35:19 pm
I'm not sure if we even had the source. I thought the real bowels of SWIL lived in a library or two that we linked with. I could be wrong; it's been quite a while. There was some kind of goofy wrapper added later on that really didn't change anything, but that would have been SFC3 code anyway.


that is possible, I haven't tried to look in DLL's (that would be a new experience I don't look forward to hacking on).  I have only dug in the Q3 file proper so far.  Interesting that Quicksilver in the information they set us here said we shouldn't have Quil in the game ( :laugh:) but from the rest of you in the know, it is there. 

Not sure what all it did, but might be interesting to check it out (would that be the scripting language used for the AI and such?)

Grr, now I am going to have to go looking for it.  :D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on September 23, 2008, 01:38:05 pm
Have you guys considered leveraging existing technology with free licenses that would be 100% compatible with your project? Like, using Ogre as the renderer or something. Ogre is seriously f*cking over-engineered if you ask me (and I realize you didn't) but, I can almost see in my head right now how you could adapt it to SFC fairly easily. And poof, you have a cross-platform renderer.

Wondering how hard it would be to get Ogre to use the MOD format (guess we can always port the models over to other formats also).
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Scott_Bruno on September 23, 2008, 01:42:22 pm
Wondering how hard it would be to get Ogre to use the MOD format (guess we can always port the models over to other formats also).

Assuming the project went that way, new mesh & material formats would be a given. There are far better ways to do models that have options like animated bits and destruction anyway.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on September 23, 2008, 01:44:15 pm
Wondering how hard it would be to get Ogre to use the MOD format (guess we can always port the models over to other formats also).

Assuming the project went that way, new mesh & material formats would be a given. There are far better ways to do models that have options like animated bits and destruction anyway.


that is true, was just looking at the Ogre page, and thoughts of ships that would twist and bend as they took damage came to mind.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Centurus on September 23, 2008, 02:03:20 pm
The next one who says the word 'pay' gets a torpedo for his trouble; I would never take a dime from you people. By the end, and like most people, I hated the company. But I always loved this game.

Also, I forgot that my normal, sailor-inspired speech patterns were against the forum rules here. By way of apology I’ll have myself agonized later.

To be honest, about a year ago Frey did ask me if I would be interested and I passed. It was a little bit because I wasn't sure of the legal situation, a little bit because I was really fed up with the game industry at the time and I couldn't fathom taking more work home with me, and a little because I didn't think I wanted to do it if it was just going to be the Mother of All Mods rather than a full-tilt project.

Part of me (a few parts) would love to tear into it and replace the whole darn renderer. So much has changed since then and the thought of applying what we’ve learned to SFC is very exciting to me. One of the truly neat things about a space game is that most of the world is empty space. You’re not spending all that time drawing walls, trees and waving blades of grass. You don’t have a screenful of human-ish skeletons to update. You can therefore go hog-wild on the relatively few things you are drawing; especially today, with the state of hardware being what it is.

I don’t know. I don’t know what the plan calls for but it seems too exciting not to go for it.


1.) I ain't got no money, but I could give you my thanks and undying gratitude.  And even make a custom set of registries for you of a ship if ya wanted.  I'm poor, so there's only so much I can do.   ;D

2.) You have got to join the development team.  Now's your chance to put all the golden stuff you dreamed of into SFC.  I'm sure your input would be more valuable than gold. 
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Centurus on September 23, 2008, 02:06:33 pm
Wondering how hard it would be to get Ogre to use the MOD format (guess we can always port the models over to other formats also).

Assuming the project went that way, new mesh & material formats would be a given. There are far better ways to do models that have options like animated bits and destruction anyway.


that is true, was just looking at the Ogre page, and thoughts of ships that would twist and bend as they took damage came to mind.

So long as the necessary tools, MAX plugins, etc., were made available and easy to use to get ships into the game and fully working, hell, I'm all for it.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Corbomite on September 23, 2008, 03:48:47 pm
Well it's not up to me. It's not my game or my plan and I have no idea what they have in mind. All I'm saying is, I'm willing to help out.


Scott I know for sure that they would love to have you. It is a small team working in their spare time. Projected release of an alpha or beta testing version is at least a year off. Just contact Frey. It's not like you'd have to fill out an application or anything, I mean your sample work is the freakin' game!  ;D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Scott_Bruno on September 23, 2008, 04:09:18 pm
[I mean your sample work is the freakin' game!  ;D

Lord, I hope not. I was still a noob then; there's no telling what kind of crap I wrote. Alright, I'll talk to Frey.

You know, I've spent more time thinking about this today than about work.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: KBF-Crim on September 23, 2008, 04:58:01 pm
Captain Krumb lives again! ;D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ramagar on September 23, 2008, 05:00:03 pm
Hey all!

My opinion is this.  The reason SFC3 and ST Legacy were so dismal is they were dumbed down

Thanks! And I'm sure the last couple years' worth of whatever work you do were complete sh*t.

 

WTF is that all about?
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Centurus on September 23, 2008, 06:08:09 pm
Hey all!

My opinion is this.  The reason SFC3 and ST Legacy were so dismal is they were dumbed down

Thanks! And I'm sure the last couple years' worth of whatever work you do were complete sh*t.

 

WTF is that all about?

Scott was on the SFC development team.  He helped create SFC3.  You insulted the game, and by default, the time and effort he put into the game.

You figure it out.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: KBF-Crim on September 23, 2008, 06:40:01 pm
Plus he cant fly any better than ensign crusher... ;D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Corbomite on September 23, 2008, 07:40:25 pm
You know, I've spent more time thinking about this today than about work.


Then all is right with the world. Some of my best days at work have been spent thinking about SFC.  ;) Thanks for changing your mind.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Scott_Bruno on September 23, 2008, 07:59:49 pm
Plus he cant fly any better than ensign crusher... ;D

I started to retort then I remembered he was right. Dude, that banner brings back so many memories... wow.

Quote
Thanks for changing your mind.

Well I offered; doesn't mean they want me along. For all I know they're ten minutes from done, you know? Mostly I'm just dying to see some new life in the old girl. I've often thought about what it would be like to take a whole new stab at it.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: toasty0 on September 23, 2008, 08:37:54 pm
My fav quote from your site Scott:  Scott: "Oh yeah. I forgot we don't live in a sci-fi movie."

There a bunch more gems, but for some reason I don't quite understand that one stood out.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Centurus on September 23, 2008, 08:46:14 pm

Well I offered; doesn't mean they want me along. For all I know they're ten minutes from done, you know? Mostly I'm just dying to see some new life in the old girl. I've often thought about what it would be like to take a whole new stab at it.

If the SFC4 development team doesn't accept you, I will personally impregnate every Playboy Playmate from January 1980-present, and, this is the ultimate sacrifice, I'll watch an entire season of American Idol.

*shudders at the thought*
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Scott_Bruno on September 23, 2008, 09:44:37 pm
My fav quote from your site Scott:  Scott: "Oh yeah. I forgot we don't live in a sci-fi movie."

There a bunch more gems, but for some reason I don't quite understand that one stood out.

I only wish I could remember the context of that one. Regardless, I've decided that I will live in a sci-fi movie if I darn well please. I'm working up a scheme to get things like the lights and the music going via voice. I think I can even pull off part of it with C#. For the interface, you know? I might even go to the Dark Side and use WPF. And Microsoft's speech recognition stuff works surprisingly well for something that's totally free. From there it's just a USB interface to some kind of switchbox, some very simple wiring and bam! I live in a sci-fi movie. Computer, increase coolness by 25%.

Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ramagar on September 23, 2008, 10:12:32 pm
Hey all!

My opinion is this.  The reason SFC3 and ST Legacy were so dismal is they were dumbed down

Thanks! And I'm sure the last couple years' worth of whatever work you do were complete sh*t.

 

WTF is that all about?

Scott was on the SFC development team.  He helped create SFC3.  You insulted the game, and by default, the time and effort he put into the game.

You figure it out.

Ok.  So, he didn't bother to actually read what I was getting at and why, IMHO, and most that play SFC, SFC2 and OP thought about what came after.  It was not meant as a personal insult just my opnion of WHY it ...err didn't hold up against a game like OP or SFC2.  It's the same thing that happened to SWG when they came out with the revamped game...they dumbed it down, tried to make something based on canon and not gameplay and it died a quick death.  So it begs the question why, with the success of SFC2, OP iIMHO should have been an upgrade and not a new game, didn't anyone try and perfect SFC2 to be more like SFB (to a fine point)?  I will tell you though, if I did screw up programming (which I do) on a multi million dollar VOIP installation I would have been forced to fix it.  I also wouldn't be personally insulted if someone explained in detail why it failed.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FA Frey XC on September 23, 2008, 10:23:05 pm
Ram,

[Edited due to me not obviously knowing the whole story  :-X]

Now -  :woot: this is so damned exciting that I can't believe it.

Wow!
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ramagar on September 23, 2008, 10:32:30 pm
Ram,

In all honesty, you don't really have any idea what your talking about. Taldren wanted to make SFC3 everything it could be - it was Activision that screwed that pooch. So your basically pouring salt in a wound that's likely almost closed, then rubbing it with a steel bristle pad and going "DOES THAT HURT!!! DOES IT!!!"

So please drop the attitude and show some respect.

Thanks.

Now -  :woot: this is so damned exciting that I can't believe it.

Wow!

See, I didn't know that all I know is the result as an end user and consumer.  So Activision screwed the game to hell eh?  Well I tell you what guys if you are looking there used to be another star trek combat system by FASA back in the day that actually was pretty damn cool.  Sorry, I am NOT trying to make someone feel bad about anything.  What is done is done and I am pleased make that estatic about ANYONE that is looking to make a better SFC series game.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Scott_Bruno on September 23, 2008, 11:14:42 pm
See, I didn't know that all I know is the result as an end user and consumer.  So Activision screwed the game to hell eh?  Well I tell you what guys if you are looking there used to be another star trek combat system by FASA back in the day that actually was pretty damn cool.  Sorry, I am NOT trying to make someone feel bad about anything.  What is done is done and I am pleased make that estatic about ANYONE that is looking to make a better SFC series game.

You know what? Just forget I said anything. Seriously, I overreacted. The thing is, I've made a bunch of games and SFC is one of very few that I feel personally about. That's all. I was a (scripting) modder, dude, and my first professional gig was this very game. So, even now I feel close to this series on a level that even more 'successful' games didn't reach. A lot of us did, and probably still do.

So yeah, several years later it's not like I'm not used to accepting criticism. Goes with the turf. I just tend to take it personally when it's SFC, and especially the last one.

Let's just all drink a toast to blowing the crap outta' your friends in space.  []?


Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: EmeraldEdge on September 23, 2008, 11:26:34 pm
Let's just all drink a toast to blowing the crap outta' your friends in space.  []?

Amen!  Sadly, I'm the one who's usually takin' the lickin' but someday.... :D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: GFL Offkey on September 24, 2008, 08:57:18 am
Scott,
  I am pleased to hear from someone on the team for sfc3. The game is alot better than sfc2 and op in my opinion. First as a captain of a fleet you dont control the items in micromanaging as you did in early versions thats what officers are for. You just give orders they should know thier duties. I would like to invite you to try what we have done with sfc3 as the GFL has taken a lead role in repairing the game to what context we have. If you have the game let me know and try the legions at war version. If you know of anyone I can contact for the sfc3 code let me know and I will get it done.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Scott_Bruno on September 24, 2008, 01:39:01 pm
If you know of anyone I can contact for the sfc3 code let me know and I will get it done.

I wish. No, I don't know of anyone who still has that code. I suppose there's a CD sitting in a box somewhere in Activision's closet but it would probably be easier to get your hands on the Colonel's secret recipe.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on September 24, 2008, 03:59:17 pm
If you know of anyone I can contact for the sfc3 code let me know and I will get it done.

I wish. No, I don't know of anyone who still has that code. I suppose there's a CD sitting in a box somewhere in Activision's closet but it would probably be easier to get your hands on the Colonel's secret recipe.

Isn't Mr. Yeast (I believe that is right) one who might, I know he was offering to help when the servers were taken offline.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Scott_Bruno on September 25, 2008, 08:37:03 am
If you know of anyone I can contact for the sfc3 code let me know and I will get it done.

I wish. No, I don't know of anyone who still has that code. I suppose there's a CD sitting in a box somewhere in Activision's closet but it would probably be easier to get your hands on the Colonel's secret recipe.

Isn't Mr. Yeast (I believe that is right) one who might, I know he was offering to help when the servers were taken offline.

No idea. Problem with SFC3 though is that the ratio of living to dead corporate entities isn't in your favor.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Nemesis on September 25, 2008, 09:12:36 am
Alright, I'll talk to Frey.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


:woot: :woot: :woot:                                                                                                   :rwoot: :rwoot: :rwoot:
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Roychipoqua_Mace on September 25, 2008, 05:05:58 pm
It is quite exciting to see the beginnings of SFC4. What an awesome time to be an SFC fan and a game player in general.

Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: SPBane on September 26, 2008, 04:05:07 pm
This is awesome news!!SFC rocks! I loved the first one when it came out,and liked SFC3 even better! No other game has made my heart race so in pvp! Thats the part I miss the most. I dont know if it was all the different mods that came out that split up so much of the playerbase,or people just lost intrest? But I'd hate to see this great game die.... Its too darn fun!! I'd be happy to offer my time for any play testing that may be needed.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Scott_Bruno on September 27, 2008, 10:38:27 am
This is awesome news!!SFC rocks! I loved the first one when it came out,and liked SFC3 even better! No other game has made my heart race so in pvp! Thats the part I miss the most. I dont know if it was all the different mods that came out that split up so much of the playerbase,or people just lost intrest? But I'd hate to see this great game die.... Its too darn fun!! I'd be happy to offer my time for any play testing that may be needed.

If anything I'd say it's the mods that have kept it going this long. Without them I don't think the game would still have a pulse today.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Corbomite on September 27, 2008, 11:03:05 am
This is awesome news!!SFC rocks! I loved the first one when it came out,and liked SFC3 even better! No other game has made my heart race so in pvp! Thats the part I miss the most. I dont know if it was all the different mods that came out that split up so much of the playerbase,or people just lost intrest? But I'd hate to see this great game die.... Its too darn fun!! I'd be happy to offer my time for any play testing that may be needed.

If anything I'd say it's the mods that have kept it going this long. Without them I don't think the game would still have a pulse today.


Not entirely. There's still a dedicated group on Gamespy that plays with nothing more than an expanded shiplist. That and the SFB nutters who still haven't found a better tactical game give the old girl some legs too.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: SPBane on September 27, 2008, 02:27:43 pm
Aye yes,I'd say your both right on both counts. With the new legs,would also unite most who played different mods and older versions.And again bring new life to this fun game! Back to the days of 100 or more people on a server in a given day. I for one would be happy to pay for an sfc4,and even pay to play on a server if need be. I've played quite a few games over the years,but this is one I always seem to come back to,no matter how old.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Reverend on October 16, 2008, 10:20:07 pm
So, you're going to redo SFC1, SFC2OP, and EAW, all which were SFB based. True, SFC3 was dumbed down, but it added a lot of playability and "friendliness" that was not at all present in before. I proudly own and play all 4 of the series, and am still at a loss. What are you guys going to do to 3 games that to me here just mods of one another? I saw very little change in any of them whatsoever except SFC3.... SFB is fun, but very unfriendly and stifling, and will not attract any new attention. I ralize no one involved cares either.  A PF here, slightly different weapon configurations.... same old game for the first 3.

I do understand and am excited for a totally fan-based game, esp nice seeing all the old hands I recall chiming in.
My main question is-
What new functions or new styles is it you all are truly seeking in this project that would make SFC4 any different than just another mod for SFC1.2.OPEAW?

I am not trying to cause any fuss or be a naysayer... I've been away for a while and am a little lost, and seeking an education.


Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Rod ONeal on October 17, 2008, 01:36:24 am
About 10% of SFB is in SFC. There's lots more that could be added. More races with all new ships, systems and weapons, just for starters. If I were making it, which I realize I'm not, I'd add boarding party and ground combat. There could be a whole strategic level added. Any of these things would make it a whole new game with lots of reasons for new players, as well as disenchanted old players, to join in.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on October 17, 2008, 04:53:25 am
About 10% of SFB is in SFC. There's lots more that could be added. More races with all new ships, systems and weapons, just for starters. If I were making it, which I realize I'm not, I'd add boarding party and ground combat. There could be a whole strategic level added. Any of these things would make it a whole new game with lots of reasons for new players, as well as disenchanted old players, to join in.

I would agree.  In my belief SFC4 should be an evolution not revolution.  The game already is the best, adding to the abilities is what is needed, not make a whole new game (if it was a totally new game, then it should have a whole new name not just a series number).

SFB has so much that can add to the game, but you have to be carefull on how it is added as it would be easy to add so much that it becomes unplayable because you have to much to control.  Writing better AI controllers for systems would be nice.

Going along with Frey and tracking crew.  Maybe link different scripting styles to each crew member (station) thus you can customize how your ship acts in combat.  That way you can't totally know what the other ships AI will do so it is harder to plan on how to fight it.  (smarter boarding party actions, no beaming over when the enemy drops a facing shield so he can alpha strike you when your AI drops your shield).  Little things like that.

Maybe add the ability to have local scripts in (pick your scripting language), so you can tweak your own ships way of fighting.  Making sure the scripts only direct action and doesn't dictate it would help keep people from cheating with them.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Reverend on October 17, 2008, 09:27:26 pm
 8) Thanks for the explanation and the subsequent pique to my interest... I can do audio, but if anyone can script, program, model or texture, audio is second-rate to them. Nonetheless, I'll be around.

Godspeed, good fellows.

Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Rod ONeal on October 17, 2008, 11:54:31 pm
8) Thanks for the explanation and the subsequent pique to my interest... I can do audio, but if anyone can script, program, model or texture, audio is second-rate to them. Nonetheless, I'll be around.

Godspeed, good fellows.



Not true. Nothing is insignificant. True C++ scripters will be the biggest demand/lowest supply. Considering all of the non technical work that needs to be done, the scripters don't need to worry about that as well, if that makes sense the way I'm saying it? Hopefully there'll be enough people so no one has to wear too many hats.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Reptor on November 10, 2008, 08:19:34 pm
Whoa! It's been a long time since I've visited this old home of mine. For some reason today a voice in my head told me to, and I stumbled upon this great news! Very cool! I don't know what I can do to help, except maybe with a users guide or a SFC4  strategy guide.

Havn't flown in quite a while. Time to slap in OP again and give her a spin. Ah, memories...  ;D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on November 10, 2008, 11:21:22 pm
8) Thanks for the explanation and the subsequent pique to my interest... I can do audio, but if anyone can script, program, model or texture, audio is second-rate to them. Nonetheless, I'll be around.

Godspeed, good fellows.



Not true. Nothing is insignificant. True C++ scripters will be the biggest demand/lowest supply. Considering all of the non technical work that needs to be done, the scripters don't need to worry about that as well, if that makes sense the way I'm saying it? Hopefully there'll be enough people so no one has to wear too many hats.

I would have to say sound is a very important part of a game, having music that sets a mood, the ability to transisition music between different tension level etc, can really help in a game (movie, et al).
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Tuscarora on November 25, 2008, 07:29:17 pm
Name: Stephen Anthony Vincent
Address: Commiskey, IN 47227
Phone# : 812-216-1458

Job (IE: Programmer): Professionally - Microprocessor Engineer, For the Project, Programmer
Skills (IE: C++/SQL): C, C++

Contact Email: tuscarora@bluebottle.com

MSN Messenger (If applicable): don't use Im's

If still interested, let me know.  Long time player of SFC, SFC2, SFC2OP... skipped SFC3
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Max Power on February 22, 2009, 01:00:37 am
What is the status of this. Curious people in eve want to know; Mocton said something might be happening here. Maybe something is.

Always nice to hear about something 6-8 months after it's announced, but meh.

I'll explain why unless you want to be doing what it sounds like you're trying to do (which is take the old game, rip out the stuff that is totally outdated, replace the stuff that never worked to start with, and fix the huge number of bugs I recall this line of games has - plus add more functionality) until 2014 using a SFB based ruleset is a good idea. It's not so much that SFB is full of awesome (which IMO it is) but that it's an already functioning, existing, mostly BALANCED game system. If you choose to create something totally new, you're going to have to figure out how to create all these game systems from scratch, balance them all against each other, etc. This will take time, probably a lot of it. SFB has the benefit of having already for the most part done these things, so the only concern is the adaptation to the game that is being created. Since you're using a already established frame that previously did a lot of this work, the only things that you'd need to work seriously on would be adding whatever additional options to it that you chose to include. Which brings me to the next thing to consider.

People think that SFC 1/2/OP is a computerized SFB. It's not really. It's a conversion of SOME of SFB. Many, many things are missing, and this causes problems. I especially recall that romulans in SFC are mostly crap because without plasma bolts (or sabot) they have a very hard time fighting equally against opponents, since their tactics are nearly universally limited to a very small bag of tricks. Similarly, fighter regen and other such things annoyed me greatly, as well as the fact that the actual fighters themselves were overpowered and underpowered at the same time. The alterations caused problems that could be mitigated by smart players - but why should they have to do this in the first place? My advice, is due to these reasons, is to take the SFB frame that you're starting with, actually FINISH adding the missing features in it (and/or make the ones that are implemented in a questionable manner, such as fighters, work correctly) and move from there. Once you have a basic working framework, you can add as much stuff as you like/is practicable on it with no problems.

The other thing that I'd say is that SFC has really only been a player vs AI game, or a game with some limited multiplayer support in it (Mplague, etc). Dynaverse...well I played it for years, and it's limitations caused me to add grey hairs to my head I think. Most of the play in what is supposed to be a multiplayer arena is against the AI, which is not exactly what comes to mind when you say multiplayer. Even then, 6 total people...not much mutliplayer in that. I suppose I've been spoiled somewhat by eve, where the max player count in a fight that I've been in was over 1200. Not that you'll likely get close to that I'd assume in anything not hosted on a dedicated server (with programming to back it up) but somewhere in the 20-30 range would be nice (and if done right would seem doable). In short, not only the multiplayer code should be scrapped, but the way mutiplayer is used in campaigns should be totally rethought. If the idea is that you're playing against other people, shouldn't you actually, you know, play most of your game time against other people?

I suppose I'll need to keep tabs on this now to see if something interesting develops. Is there a place where progress is being tracked, or is this a dead horse?
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: atheorhaven on April 09, 2009, 01:34:57 pm
If anything I'd say it's the mods that have kept it going this long. Without them I don't think the game would still have a pulse today.


Don't normally follow this forum, but as a modder Scott.. thank you.  We love this game as well, that's why we keep doing it.

Just dropping you an image (and one for the guys not in the Modellers forum), this is one that will be released next week by Will Decker.  Mesh is 8 years old now, textures are new.  Kinda like the game, eh?  ;)  This ship will fly ingame (the mesh has before), and once released, I'm sure that one of us will convert it over to SFC 3.

Thread can be followed at:
http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163377869.msg1122954633.html#msg1122954633

(http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=163377869.0;attach=17895;image)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Age on April 17, 2009, 05:07:22 pm
I hope a new Dyna is made for this one that spports Vista and you can keep your firewall on unlike the D2.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: spaivxx on May 11, 2009, 11:18:35 pm
Is this project on going still? I am new here and please excuse me for not having the time this evening to read all of the pages. I so badly would love to see a new SFC game. On the first page you mentioned the need for composers/sound designers. I would love a shot at that. I am a musician by trade and I was a musical composition major in school. You may contact me at shawnabrams@hotmail.com if I may help with this project. I can send some MP3 samples. I have everything I need to fully produce the music for this project, be it orchestral, industrial, ambient elctronica, combination, etc....
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: vortex79 on May 27, 2009, 11:35:16 am
This sounds sweet, but if you take out the Gorn, I will rip out your heart! :-P
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Tulwar on May 28, 2009, 12:11:18 am
Take out the Lyran theme, I'll do like the Mirak and feast on your entrails!
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FA Frey XC on September 01, 2009, 04:04:35 am
Look for that update you've all been scratching your heads about!


SOON

Regards,
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: GroundZero on November 06, 2009, 07:22:45 am
Soon.....sounds good
I really hope you avoid the pitfalls that plagued previous modification projects.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on November 06, 2009, 08:13:29 am
Soon.....sounds good
I really hope you avoid the pitfalls that plagued previous modification projects.

Don't forget to check the date of that "soon" post.  9-1-2009.  Today is 11=6=2009.

Hope for the best, but don't hold your breath on things.  :skeptic: :skeptic:
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: maus on January 03, 2010, 06:48:19 pm
As someone who regularly plays Dwarf Fortress, I know how to wait for a good thing! A non-profit being handed the rights to one of my favorite franchises? YES PLEASE
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Rod ONeal on January 04, 2010, 02:00:28 am
Soon.....sounds good
I really hope you avoid the pitfalls that plagued previous modification projects.

Don't forget to check the date of that "soon" post.  9-1-2009.  Today is 11=6=2009.

Hope for the best, but don't hold your breath on things.  :skeptic: :skeptic:

Well, it's apparently "soon" in the biblical sense. As in, "Judgment day is coming "soon".
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on January 04, 2010, 04:39:20 am
Soon.....sounds good
I really hope you avoid the pitfalls that plagued previous modification projects.

Don't forget to check the date of that "soon" post.  9-1-2009.  Today is 11=6=2009.

Hope for the best, but don't hold your breath on things.  :skeptic: :skeptic:

Well, it's apparently "soon" in the biblical sense. As in, "Judgment day is coming "soon".

 ;D  :laugh: yepper  ::)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: DIFJosh on January 10, 2010, 04:42:46 pm
hi Guys  let me know how we can help. We all getting ready for STO, sew alot of the crew is back, like Schramm and Bingman (Programmers) ill inquire to them if they have time and if they could help you out.
wanna shout out to Frey and Bonk hope to hear from you .
your SFC Community Angel
DIFJoshCUGS 8)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FA Frey XC on February 02, 2010, 08:44:42 pm
Literally, within days.

Regards,
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Rod ONeal on February 16, 2010, 01:35:13 am
Literally, within days.

Regards,

Hmmm? Maybe it's some sort of code?

Quote
Admiral, if we go "by the book". like Lieutenant Saavik, hours could seem like days.

:huh:
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Tulwar on February 16, 2010, 10:32:46 pm
Literally, within days.

Regards,

Hmmm? Maybe it's some sort of code?

Quote
Admiral, if we go "by the book". like Lieutenant Saavik, hours could seem like days.

:huh:

So, are you saying that he meant months, or years?
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Rod ONeal on February 17, 2010, 01:41:12 am
Still trying to break the cryptic chaos of it all. ;)
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Roychipoqua_Mace on February 22, 2010, 04:23:35 pm
It might be in this thread or another, but does anyone know the status of the SFC2:EAW source code? I thought that Dynaverse.net still had it. If so, what are the chances that SFC4 would be based off of that source code -- and what legal and technical (if the EAW engine is a sound basis for computers running Vista, 7, and beyond) issues are getting in the way?

Although a similar but non-Trek game would be neat, I think that EAW already has 90% of what SFC4 would need. So unless it were completely necessary -- the only legal way to make a SFC4, even if it's not named that or even Trek-based -- what's the point in remaking most of the game? I've read posts about users who would love simply a version of OP that worked reliably with modern computers and networks. How far from this is EAW? Just a thought ...
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: -E on April 05, 2010, 03:57:15 am
What I'd have liked to see (but most assuredly never would've) was the ability to issue all orders and see their effects while paused. I also would've liked a toggle-able auto-timer-stop option for the end of every "turn."  Yes... exactly. I want a turn-based option. Then you can add all the optional complexity you want as requested above, and still have the ability to control it all... what I really wanted was SFB.

SFB was about strategy, not dexterity.

Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Payne on April 16, 2010, 05:17:16 pm
It might be in this thread or another, but does anyone know the status of the SFC2:EAW source code? I thought that Dynaverse.net still had it. If so, what are the chances that SFC4 would be based off of that source code -- and what legal and technical (if the EAW engine is a sound basis for computers running Vista, 7, and beyond) issues are getting in the way?

Although a similar but non-Trek game would be neat, I think that EAW already has 90% of what SFC4 would need. So unless it were completely necessary -- the only legal way to make a SFC4, even if it's not named that or even Trek-based -- what's the point in remaking most of the game? I've read posts about users who would love simply a version of OP that worked reliably with modern computers and networks. How far from this is EAW? Just a thought ...

Because open source would mean they could not sell this game, which I am thinking they are intending?

But hey, an update would be great.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: knightstorm on April 16, 2010, 05:56:34 pm
This is a non profit organization.  They couldn't sell it anyway.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Rod ONeal on April 16, 2010, 07:39:48 pm
It might be in this thread or another, but does anyone know the status of the SFC2:EAW source code? I thought that Dynaverse.net still had it. If so, what are the chances that SFC4 would be based off of that source code -- and what legal and technical (if the EAW engine is a sound basis for computers running Vista, 7, and beyond) issues are getting in the way?

Although a similar but non-Trek game would be neat, I think that EAW already has 90% of what SFC4 would need. So unless it were completely necessary -- the only legal way to make a SFC4, even if it's not named that or even Trek-based -- what's the point in remaking most of the game? I've read posts about users who would love simply a version of OP that worked reliably with modern computers and networks. How far from this is EAW? Just a thought ...

Because open source would mean they could not sell this game, which I am thinking they are intending?

But hey, an update would be great.

It's probably more likely because the source code, or any licenses, don't belong to DV.net. You can't give away something that's not yours in the 1st place.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Payne on April 27, 2010, 11:27:52 am
So.... an update?   :knuppel2:
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: psytce on August 18, 2010, 03:36:23 pm
Literally, within days.

Regards,



from Feb. 2010 ...., must be long days ... lol

Still willing to help if I'm needed.

Tommy
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Payne on December 08, 2010, 01:29:08 pm
Heh
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FVA_C_ Blade_ XC on December 08, 2010, 03:56:29 pm
Give Frey a break.
He had to have surgery,and is a weeeeee bit loaded with stuff right now.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: JZoro on March 11, 2011, 03:47:41 pm
So where is this SFC4? A 3 year post about this and absolutely 0 product. Does anyone here know that Star Trek has a MMO out? Yes, a Star Trek MMO that has been developed from scratch in less time than all bs in this post alone. What a crock!   
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on March 11, 2011, 04:25:41 pm
 :troll:   :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :D ;D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FA Frey XC on March 16, 2011, 12:06:11 am
So where is this SFC4? A 3 year post about this and absolutely 0 product. Does anyone here know that Star Trek has a MMO out? Yes, a Star Trek MMO that has been developed from scratch in less time than all bs in this post alone. What a crock!   

Yep, and they have a dedicated, funded software development company that's got a producer named "Atari".

We have volunteers and a producer named "Frey Petermeier" who pays for everything out of his own pocket!

What a crock!!!!

;)

Regards,
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: ShadowDiver on March 16, 2011, 12:31:52 am
Oh....him again..

Loser.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: [UFP]Exeter on August 14, 2011, 03:42:43 pm
I remember when this thread was first started.  Much has changed.

Rather that gt impatient (but I am) I wonder if I can help?  I have developed in C/C++ and taught myself C#  (not that different) and have written code for about 20 years.  Nothing recent as I do project management with a focus on getting applications etc out the door on time.

I also come with my own tools.  I even have some 3d rendering software but I never use it.

Any way I can help.

drdon@centurytel.net
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Bonk on August 17, 2011, 06:52:09 am
Cool. Send Frey a PM with your contact details and interests. I will be contacting several people in September.

A lot has changed since I started work on this in January, first and foremost, the name. We have set realistic goals and are making real progress and may need more hands soon.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Strat on August 17, 2011, 08:33:05 am
 :D
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Kreeargh on August 17, 2011, 11:56:54 pm
Some times the trolls need to be fed the truth. I belive this project is strong others do not and most of those have a alt $$ agenda. Go sfc4 it will rule.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: marstone on August 18, 2011, 04:22:48 pm
I've been waiting and will continue to wait... In the end I know it will be completed and well worth it... Until then I will practice my skills with OP 4.1... ;-)

Adam

Don't forget to play some EAW also as that will be the base of the new release.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Ravok on September 02, 2011, 11:56:01 am
I've been waiting and will continue to wait... In the end I know it will be completed and well worth it... Until then I will practice my skills with OP 4.1... ;-)

Adam

Don't forget to play some EAW also as that will be the base of the new release.

 Yikes !! That shows how much I have been paying attention. Thanks for the heads up. :) :thumbsup:
 I havent played EAW in years. Have to dust it off, and practice.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: Lieutenant_Q on September 02, 2011, 08:57:39 pm
OP has the advanced weapons.  Maulers, MIRVs, X-phasers, Heavy Heavies.  The Orions are more detailed.  Other things are that there is more ship spots available for OP.  I think EAW ship upper limit is 64 per class, while OP is 128 per class.  (something along those lines anyway, OP has 2x as many ship slots available).  What that means is there's more room for variants and conjectural ships in the shiplist for OP, EAW the list would need to be pared down further because there just isn't enough room for them.  There also a few other minor differences, given that OP is the later of the two and was improved further than EAW.  The two games play (mostly) the same, and use the same technology.  OP was sold as a stand alone expansion, that didn't require EAW to play, but the game is by and large the same, with just some minor differences, and of course, the extra weapons.
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: psytce on September 08, 2011, 07:09:15 pm
Cool. Send Frey a PM with your contact details and interests. I will be contacting several people in September.

A lot has changed since I started work on this in January, first and foremost, the name. We have set realistic goals and are making real progress and may need more hands soon.

If this is really going to be going forward I would like to offer any help I can. I was going to be helping the first go round so Frey may already have all my info. Please E-Mail me if you would like my help, I'm also in STO if anybody here is playing that. I would really like to see this happen.

Tommy
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: matchbox2022 on September 26, 2011, 09:41:42 pm
OP has the advanced weapons.  Maulers, MIRVs, X-phasers, Heavy Heavies.  The Orions are more detailed.  Other things are that there is more ship spots available for OP.  I think EAW ship upper limit is 64 per class, while OP is 128 per class.  (something along those lines anyway, OP has 2x as many ship slots available).  What that means is there's more room for variants and conjectural ships in the shiplist for OP, EAW the list would need to be pared down further because there just isn't enough room for them.  There also a few other minor differences, given that OP is the later of the two and was improved further than EAW.  The two games play (mostly) the same, and use the same technology.  OP was sold as a stand alone expansion, that didn't require EAW to play, but the game is by and large the same, with just some minor differences, and of course, the extra weapons.

It's also DX7 Vs. DX8. Makes scripts incompatible between the two,...unfortunately. Ships still use .mod thank god though. If you guys want a little help, Im getting better with G-Max? :P
Title: Re: SFC 4 Project
Post by: FA Frey XC on October 08, 2011, 07:37:14 am
Send me a tell, and a number where you can be reached.

Regards,