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Off Topic => Holodeck => Topic started by: knightstorm on September 02, 2018, 10:23:00 am

Title: Picard Series
Post by: knightstorm on September 02, 2018, 10:23:00 am
This is old news, but I'm surprised noone mentioned it here.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/04/arts/star-trek-patrick-stewart-picard.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/04/arts/star-trek-patrick-stewart-picard.html)

edit:
looking at the article more closely that @&&hole Kurtzman is involved.  Therefore, it won't be Star Trek, and I won't watch it.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Vipre on September 03, 2018, 03:14:13 pm
Don't write it off so fast. My take is it's part of the damage control related to STD. It may turn out decently.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: FPF-Tobin Dax on September 03, 2018, 09:47:03 pm
Do feel free to write it off. You got it right with Kurtzman. This won't be Picard post the post TNG era that we all know and loved, but something else.  ::)
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Tulwar on September 16, 2018, 12:51:55 am
Don't write it off so fast. My take is it's part of the damage control related to STD. It may turn out decently.

I don't think so.  I just wish they'd stop with the stupid.  AS far as Hollywood is concerned, people with imagination are just losers, so they're not going to put the precious ST copyrights in the hands of the type low-life that actually writes science fiction.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: JarvisArgelius on November 01, 2018, 04:26:18 pm
I am looking forward to this, mainly because I trust Stewart's judgement on Picard's evolution.  I doubt that Stewart needs the money, and the personal regimen of a weekly TV series is not for the faint-hearted, so I doubt that the plot and script of the show will be the flaw, if there is one.  I have no love for anyone from the JJA staff, Kurtzman included, but I'm thinking the clout of Stewart will have elicited better quality than what we've seen previously.

Anyone else curious to see Picard meet up with Neela Daren (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Nella_Daren) again?   He could be chasing an exo-archaeology lead and have need of stellar cartographer.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Lono on February 26, 2020, 07:08:10 pm
I skipped Discovery after the pilot because it.. well just no - I couldn't accept it as Trek.

Picard has been surprisingly decent so far - that last episode was a killer!

Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: TAnimaL on March 29, 2020, 11:05:51 am
While it's not my favorite series, you did yourself a disservice not watching more of Disco, in my opinion it's gotten stronger and stronger, with the 2nd season and Pike especially.

I just finished Picard and feel it was an excellent series. A modern non-episodic version of Trek with a superb cast.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Javora on March 29, 2020, 08:40:08 pm
I didn’t have high hopes for this when I first saw it.  Thought it was a little bit better part way through.  Now I think the series is a raging dumpster fire.  Attacking space flowers??!?  F&(/ off with that.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Lono on March 30, 2020, 02:40:53 pm
TAnimaL,

I suppose I could give it a chance - I hear it has some mirror darkly parts which are always a guilty pleasure of mine.

(not to mention I've ran out of shows that I can watch without the wife currently)


Javora,

No doubt the flowers are goofy - but Trek has always had some goofy elements in this way. Culturally it seems logistically consistent with the world building they did in the show.

There are a few too many happy coincidences in the Picard series for my liking - but it did feel like legitimate Trek to me.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Javora on March 31, 2020, 03:59:30 am
I think the actors in STP tried there best to make a good show.  The plot didn’t work for me, Picard “not” dying had me rolling my eyes.  Altered Carbon does this so much better.  If you started this show with low expectations I don’t think people would be disappointed.  With P. Steward I had higher expectations.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: AlDaja on April 04, 2020, 03:11:50 pm
The show is crap.   That is all.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: TAnimaL on April 04, 2020, 04:45:32 pm
Each to their own opinion AlDaja.  I found it refreshing and at least reaching out to be new. I think the actors, esp Ryan & Stewart, got to do more and better with their characters in such a short series. I agree Lono, some story shortcuts were taken at the end but wrapping things up quickly has always been a problem in Trek, hasn't it?

I'll admit, I got a little sniffly in some scenes, and not because of any nostalgia, but for what the actors did with their characters - Riker & Troi's loss, Icheb and Hugh's fate and that impact, Stewart playing to his age, etc
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Tulwar on April 05, 2020, 12:45:19 pm
AlDaja got it right.  I wish people would stop apologizing for this abomination and everything else perverted by Secret Hideout and Bad Robot.  I renounce JJ Abrams and all his works.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: TAnimaL on April 05, 2020, 01:11:21 pm
And I'm equally sick of people jumping up and down with hate on Star Trek.
I'm not in any way "apologizing" when I say I like it, I'm stating my opinion. I like it, a lot. And as I said, to each their own opinion Tulwar, although blanket statements like "abomination" and "perversion" are not real useful critique, just flame-boy rants.

And FFS, JJ & Bad Robot have nothing (nada ,zilch, zero). To Do. With Picard. Or Discovery. Nothing. "Bu.. buut... Kurtzman!!"  Yeah yeah, he helped write the JJs, but from these two shows he's shown he knows more about ST than Harve Bennet or Fred Freiberger ever did.

Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Tulwar on April 05, 2020, 01:20:29 pm
It offends me. >:(
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Lono on April 06, 2020, 01:17:16 pm
It offends me. >:(

I am finding that Discovery offends me - as I expected - but as long as I think of it as goofy fan fiction I am enjoying it for what it is.

Picard I found to be much more enjoyable.

When TNG first came out I was pretty offended - and the first season is still pretty hard to watch - but they did recover nicely. I don't see new Trek recovering nicely anytime soon - and I think the video games are going to be the most faithful to Roddenberry's original concept going forward.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: knightstorm on April 07, 2020, 08:51:14 pm
And I'm equally sick of people jumping up and down with hate on Star Trek.
I'm not in any way "apologizing" when I say I like it, I'm stating my opinion. I like it, a lot. And as I said, to each their own opinion Tulwar, although blanket statements like "abomination" and "perversion" are not real useful critique, just flame-boy rants.

And FFS, JJ & Bad Robot have nothing (nada ,zilch, zero). To Do. With Picard. Or Discovery. Nothing. "Bu.. buut... Kurtzman!!"  Yeah yeah, he helped write the JJs, but from these two shows he's shown he knows more about ST than Harve Bennet or Fred Freiberger ever did.

Kurtzman knows NOTHING about Star Trek.  He is a purveyer of low brow scifi.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: TAnimaL on April 12, 2020, 09:56:10 am
Oy.
 Part of what you said Lono hits the nail on the effin' head - y'all did this when TNG came out. And when DS9 came out. And, etc etc. etc. It "offends" you, Tulwar? I think you're taking it too personally there. I strongly dislike Garth Brooks, so I just don't listen to him, but I am not "offended" by his existence.  ::)
 
Let's admit, ST is one of those entities that inspires passion in its fans (short for "fanatic"), and we feel a certain ownership to it, which is something the IP owners are wise to respect, but, in the end, we have NO control over it. So, yes, feeling negative about this interpretation or that episode is perfectly reasonable, but the histrionic extravagant statements undercut any real critique and are just fanboy hissy-fits.

Lono, I have to question what you mean by ST games and Roddenberry's concept. Which games? ST Online? Fleet Command? IDK those games. This one?? That makes me laugh and cry - SFC is entirely from SFB, the creator of which (SVC) is a direct rebuke of everything Roddenberry envisioned for ST.  Trekkies need to stop invoking his name to rationalize their own mind-version of what ST is, because, and I really emphatically mean this, most of you have a much different idea of what ST is than what Roddenbery talked about, and even Roddenberry was wrong about ST often, which is why the influence of Gene Coon, DC Fontana, et. al. helped make it what it is.

Sorry knightstorm, it looks like less than 1/3 of what Kutzman has done can be called scfi, and, for the last goddamn time, you don't get HOW television works. The "showrunner" producer is Michael Chabon who does know a ton about ST, and, a lot about writing.

When it comes down to it, I think there are 2 types of ST fans - those who want it to continue, and those who want it locked up like a ship in a bottle
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Nemesis on April 12, 2020, 12:47:16 pm
Then there is the 3rd type that do want it to continue but to be recognizably Trek.  When you keep revising the history so what was Trek is not compatible with what is now supposed to be Trek then you have ceased to have Trek.  If you want to do a show that is so incompatible with what has gone before than make YOUR OWN CREATION.  Don't keep cannibalizing the work of the original creator(s) to force it into a mold that is not compatible.

The Louvre may own the Mona Lisa but if they decide to repaint over it to make "her" a trans man with goatee and mustache they would need to expect art lovers to take action.  This is fundamentally no different from a TV shows fans.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Lono on April 13, 2020, 06:34:56 pm

Lono, I have to question what you mean by ST games and Roddenberry's concept. Which games? ST Online? Fleet Command? IDK those games. This one?? That makes me laugh and cry - SFC is entirely from SFB, the creator of which (SVC) is a direct rebuke of everything Roddenberry envisioned for ST.  Trekkies need to stop invoking his name to rationalize their own mind-version of what ST is, because, and I really emphatically mean this, most of you have a much different idea of what ST is than what Roddenbery talked about, and even Roddenberry was wrong about ST often, which is why the influence of Gene Coon, DC Fontana, et. al. helped make it what it is.



From what i have viewed it appears that ST Online, and the new VR Bridge Commander, have kept the feel of the "authentic" Trek. KOTOR Online also did this for Star Wars while Disney destroyed the 3rd SW trilogy. (Although the Solo movie and the Clone Wars and The Mandalorian shows all have a good "authentic" feel now)

I played SFB tabletop back in the days - like many of us - and would agree it was about epic battles and not real ST world building.

Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Brush Wolf on April 15, 2020, 01:37:58 pm
It offends me. >:(

I am finding that Discovery offends me - as I expected - but as long as I think of it as goofy fan fiction I am enjoying it for what it is.

Picard I found to be much more enjoyable.

When TNG first came out I was pretty offended - and the first season is still pretty hard to watch - but they did recover nicely. I don't see new Trek recovering nicely anytime soon - and I think the video games are going to be the most faithful to Roddenberry's original concept going forward.

Yeah, Discovery would be decent science fiction if they stripped everything Star Trek from it but as Star Trek it is an abortion. Picard has Patrick Stewart going for it and at least deals with a very Trek question, what is life.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: TAnimaL on April 26, 2020, 11:01:50 am
By your parameters Nemesis, you could argue that TNG is not ST, or DS9, etc, and these arguments were made ad nauseam back then too, and equally false. This is why I am so done with the complaining about this or that new series. "Oh, Berman has ruined ST!" "TOS said women shouldn't be starship captains!" "ST can't be a cartoon!" Blah blah blah said the grups. The painful truth is fans do not own ST, or any show, and it is and always was someone else's creation.

Roddenberry had serious issues with ST II & III - do you consider those not "real" Star Trek? Frankly, past the first half of TOS season 3 it was no longer the "work of the original creators." Again, Nemesis, what you consider ST is probably not what I consider it, and both are equally invalid, at least until the IP owners pay  you or me to make a show or movie. If it "offends" you BrushWolf, why are watching it? And if you are watching what I did, I saw a lot more of what i consider ST in Discovery than, say, the JJ movies, but I bet our versions of what is ST are different.

I find it mildly amusing that some fans get so worked up over the series and movies, but what happens in ST books, comics and games is ignored. Obviously they are the higher profile and are the only things considered "canon," but there are so many variants of ST, SFC included, where a fan could be "offended" but you mostly just ignore it, without any histrionics.

And, I for one am offended by your obviously homophobic analogy Nemesis, and I am also done letting obnoxious statements go by.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Nemesis on April 26, 2020, 12:36:30 pm
With TNG most (not all) of the changes were able to be justified because of the time between.  The biggest complaints I have with TNG are 1/ total change in the Klingon personality.  2/ forgetting the Prime Directive is PROTECTIVE of DEVELOPING cultures with no knowledge of warp travel and made it an absolute allowing Picard to stand by watching the death of a civilization by outside forces beyond their control.  But Picard did open contact with at least one such civilization with not a peep about violating it (the one where Wesley was sentenced to death).  Outside that not a lot of violation of what goes before.  Even with the Prime Directive they could have noted it as a change from the original but they didn't that I know of.

How often did TNG rewrite what was established by TOS? 

DS9 messed with the Trill that were established as a newly known species in TNG to make it one where Dax was nostalgic about Kirks time and was part of the Federation well before TNG as witnessed by his friendship with Sisko.  Mostly though again other than the Klingon personality change most things are time justifiable. 

Voyager I've seen very little of and so can't really comment.

Enterprise messed with A LOT.  The Interstellar Alliance founded when the Federation was supposed to be.  Contradicts TNG on the details of the TNG episode Pegasus (Rikers old ship with the illegal cloak).  First contract with the Klingons at the wrong time.  According to TNG it was supposed to lead to decades of war yet it had Earth actually help the Klingons and NO WAR for at least the next 10 years.  The Earth Romulan War should have happened between the last 2 episodes but nothing said about it.  Cloaks EVERY WHERE when Kirk and co had NO CLUE about them.  Ferengi deep inside the future Federation.   And so on and so forth.

Discovery apparently is going whole hog with changing stuff, haven't seen it myself. 

As to homophobic - you are wrong (see this thread (http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163350126.msg1122496357.html#msg1122496357)).   I would object to a gay Captain Kirk because it goes against the totally heterosexual womanizer that Kirk is established to be.  Recently however when I watched a bunch of the fan videos I had no problem at all with the gay nephew of Kirk or his male fiance.  These don't mess with the history as there is nothing I know of before that which it contradicts.  I would have no problem with a show between TOS and TNG with this gay Nephew being a Starfleet Captain. 

With the Mona Lisa example the issue would be with changing the existing work of art into something totally different that the original artist certainly would not have created. 

If someone is gay/bi/trans I DON'T CARE so long as they don't try and make me act that way as I'm not, I have had bi friends one of whom was a transvestite and it didn't matter.  Hell I objected to Black Lives Matters trying to hijack the Gay Pride Parade in Toronto because historically one of the groups that fought hardest against gay rights was the black community and now they want to FORCE the Gay Pride people to support them?  HELL NO.  That doesn't make me racist either as I definitely am in favour of equal rights with no legal discrimination based on race, gender or sexual orientation.  When I discriminate it is against an individual or organization based on their BEHAVIOR to others.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Tulwar on April 30, 2020, 01:09:27 am
Everything after the original series contradicted it.  The original series even contradicted itself!  The Motion Picture started out with the Klingons firing photo torpedoes from their main sensor!  Still, that movie filmed the two most beautiful spaceship models ever conceived, so who cares what the director screwed up for dramatic effect?

The only movie that had a descent plot was The Wrath of Kahn, and, with that being the only exception, all the movies were badly written.  The writing for the show might have been excellent for 1966, but when it restarted in the 1980's, it was pretty average for television.  The technobable was usually pretty weak.  While Deep Space Nine presented an enjoyable episode nearly every week, the writing was just good enough to push along the story arc, and that was fantastic!

Beginning with Voyager, a lack of improvement in writing caught up with the franchise.  Babylon 5 had already demonstrated exciting space battles, while Voyager was, well, I could change channels during ship to ship combat.  It was all bland, with aging special effects technique.  As I stopped bothering to turn on Voyager, Star Gate caught my attention, and there I superior script writing of several orders of magnitude.  Star Trek just looked stupid!

Voyager took it's sweet time dying, and then there was Enterprise.  The quality of the writing still didn't improve, but as long as they kept to an unseasoned crew bumbling about the galaxy, it wasn't that bad.  They just had to make it the center of galactic history, and the bad writing took over.

Star Trek needed a reboot, and they hired JJ Abrams.  From here, mediocre dove into insulting.  The 2009 was a farce, making anybody that ever loved any part of Star Trek feel sick.  Even the model of the Enterprise was hideous!  The second JJ Abrams movie was more of the same.  The 3rd, I never saw.  From what I've been following on YouTube, the STD and STP series are being produced under the JJ Abrams licensing limitations and necessarily have to differ from the previous incarnations of Star Trek.  From the portions CBS has uploaded to YouTube, these shows are as ugly as they are stupid.  If the studios can make money from this kind of filth, they will never make anything enjoyable.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Clark Kent on May 15, 2020, 11:59:42 am
Picard and STD are products of a spin off company from Bad Reboot, Secret Hideout.  There is actually quite a lot going on behind the scenes that  has been ripping Trek apart for a very long time.  First, JJ has been planting people working for him all around Hollywood and commandeering one franchise after another and doing what they did to Trek and Star Wars.  Then there is the licensing arrangement.  BR/SH are unwilling to let go of Trek, and even after licensees are willing to walk away from all their old merchandise (which is still selling) when forced to choose between the old Trek and new (which is NOT selling), they still won't give up. 

Also, you will notice the intentional differences when they do bring in old stuff.  Again for license agreements.  STD and Picard are NOT part of original Star Trek canon.  Legally, they are intentionally different and not beholden to the same canon as TOS, TNG, VOY or ENT.  This is intentional because they are working with a split license between CBS and Paramount.  Remerging might have changed some things, but then retardoflu comes along and we'll see if Viacom even continues to own Star Trek at this point.

One thing that old Trek was, was it was intellectual, and philosophical.  When you watched Trek, you could tell it was written by intelligent, well read individuals and even when there was a misstep, there was an optimism about it, even when they delved into deeper, and sometimes darker topics.  Some people say "it was always political" and I disagree.  It was intelligent, if flawed, and it was philosophical.  The new stuff IS political, which is to say I meant that in the crass, vulgar sense that you see on the likes of CNN.  Then we rebooted in 2009 and got Kirk proclaiming "I WAS BORN IN SPACE THUNDERSTORM!!"  This new stuff is so nihilistic and narcissistic.  There were plenty of flaws in the old- I'm not a fan of how they wrote female characters for the most part for instance, but it was largely consistent enough to swallow and be entertained.  This new stuff?  I don't even need to go into the clips I've seen of current cast members whining at conventions and scolding fans because old Trek was so bigoted and now "muh diversity!!"

I have not watched STD or Picard.  Everything I have seen from them was enough to make me say "this is not Trek."  Space autististic Spock telling the crew "I like science."?  What the crap.  I am on STO and they recently had a featured mission with Seven of Nine.  No jumpsuit, but ok, that's fine.  Nice to see her again in the game, or in general.  One line of dialogue in to her voice over and I was immediately like "this is NOT Seven of Nine."  Completely different character with different traits and quirks.  Everything I have seen from 2009 and on?  I just can't disengage my brain down t a low enough level to enjoy it.

It's a train wreck and they've driven out well over half the fan base.  that by itself is not Star Trek.

This isn't the same debate as days of old over what is canon and what isn't.  You can't even consider the new series to be canon if for no other reason than the license Secret Hideout is operating under won't allow it to be canon.  They are just keeping quiet on it because they need to keep up the illusion for marketing reasons that it's all under the same umbrella, but from every stand point, this stuff has almost nothing to do with the original Star Trek.  It's more like comparing Star Wars with the original Battlestar Galactica.  It's obvious that they were desperate to cash in on the Star Wars craze, so they just took as much as possible and then allowed studio exec meddling to separate it enough for their own poor tastes and to avoid getting sued.  Same thing here.  SH wants their own mercandise and their own cash cow to milk for 50 years, but they are struggling with the original bovine, who is still alive and kicking, despite how many times they try to kill it off for their own greed.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Lono on May 15, 2020, 01:31:44 pm
Clark,

An excellent analysis!

I am disappointed to hear they have allowed the changes (to 7 of 9) from the Picard series to spill over into STO - although I am hardly surprised.

Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Nemesis on May 15, 2020, 05:58:56 pm
How about “Star Trek: Strange New Worlds”?

Link to full article (https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/star-trek-series-anson-mount-ethan-peck-rebecca-romijn-cbs-all-access-1234607259/)
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Clark Kent on May 15, 2020, 10:37:57 pm
Hmm... Interesting.  Well, that version of Spock is the one that has space autism and says "I like Science." 

So, this is interesting for several reasons.  One is that I'm surprised Anson Mount would sign on.  There was an altercation while he was filming STD and supposedly blows were traded.  He's also implied that he did not enjoy working under this regime and not interested in going back.  second is Rebecca Romain.  She's really expensive, which is probably why she was in so little of STD which was insanely over budget.  Third, CBS is in dire financial straights right now, like many studios and SH has crapped the bed multiple times now.  next, Kurtzman is reportedly not someone that the higher ups at CBS are happy with right now, especially Sheri Redstone.  SH has all but destroyed the steady franchise income they've enjoyed from Trek, and Netflix and Amazon have made it clear that they are really unhappy with JJ trek and that whole aesthetic and they've been going out of their way to try to get out of the contracts they have over streaming this show.

Next, CBS all access is falling apart.  Not sure how long that service can keep going as it is, so there's that.  There have been a number of announced trek movies and spinoffs as of late that have been announced and then fizzled into nothing.  SH also has a habit of announcing things in what looks like a bid to try to stoke attention and pressure CBS to fund it, but they always come in behind schedule and over budget with mediocre to failed viewership.  I guess I am skeptical about this.

Finally, assuming it does come to fruition: it's not Star Trek, not like those of us who have spent our lives fans of this franchise think of as Star Trek anyways.  It will still be a mismatched license that is a minimum of 25% different from the series we all watched for so long due to legal reasons and the desire to force new merchandise sales that none of the merch creators will touch with a ten foot pole, since JJ Trek and SH have eviscerated the fan base (and with Star Wars as well.  Seems like at least 60% of their fanbase has walked away too).  They also still have the same habits of hiring soap opera writers and openly scowling at the thought of hiring staff that know and want to build off of the original franchise.  Also, when they do get good writers like Walter Mosley, (a black writer) they get shoved out when white colleagues turn him into HR for racist comments against African Americans.

It's a very toxic work environment.  I know TNG was extremely difficult to work on, but that set seems like a paradise compared to SH.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Tulwar on May 16, 2020, 05:40:58 am
This sounds like what I've heard on Midnight's Edge and Doomcock's channel.  Secret Hideout is just making nowhere plans for shows that nobody is stupid enough to invest in.  These people are eventually going to lose control over Star Trek, but not quickly and not easily.  Eventually a real Trekie, like Seth MacFarlane is going to get a hold of the franchise.  I don't know if I'd like what MacFarlan had in mind, but at least, I wait until a commercial to change channels on his shows.  I watched 10 minutes of Lost, and I could see that was going nowhere.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Clark Kent on May 16, 2020, 04:43:23 pm
I won't lie, I watch both of those channels and they are important sources for me.  I'm definitely Fandom Menace.  I wish there were more trek fans in the group, but there are enough to get some pretty in depth information about what's going on.  Hail Tulwar!  Hail Doomcock!
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Tulwar on May 17, 2020, 05:28:59 pm
I'm definitely Fandom Menace.
Hail Clark Kent!

That firmly puts you in the category of the one of the people that used to make these sci-fi franchises profitable.  JarJar Abrams and company are interlopers trying to make money, without providing us with anything of value.

There is an invisible propaganda empire that runs the United States, England, and many other countries.  Naom Chomsky has described it in the Manufacturing of Consent.  It was created when the banks feared Britain and France would never pay them back if the Central Powers won the First World War.  The studios are run by the banks, and the banks want to control what we think.  I just don't know what they are doing by cramming this phony feminist misandry down our throats.  Just because CBS and Disney are hemorrhaging money, one shouldn't get their hopes up.  This is propaganda with a purpose, and the people running it have Trump and Pelosi on speed-dial.  The best we can hope for is that the license arrangements become so unprofitable that they don't sue us for making something that's actually fun.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Clark Kent on May 17, 2020, 10:14:03 pm
Well, I'd rather not get into that level of discussion.  I'll just say that it's not so black and white as what you are painting out.  It's a lot more complicated, and some might say a lot more sinister as well.  The one thing I will say is that debt from the great war is still there.  People don't realize this.  We NEVER pay back the debt.  It's mathematically impossible.  People always forget to factor in that the entire monetary system IS debt.  It even says so on every dollar bill in your wallet.  Go ahead and look up what a "note" is in financial terms.  We NEVER pay off the debt, because doing so means getting rid of the money.  We only service the debt.  Nothing more.  That is, we break our backs working to pay nothing but the interest on the debt for our entire lives, and every generation after us.
Title: Re: Picard Series
Post by: Tulwar on May 20, 2020, 02:11:46 am
I was not referring to US debt, or even that owed any central bank. Had England and France lost WWI, American banks would have had some serious problems. Only central bank debt creates money.  All other debt is an economic rent, which the neo-liberal/neo-classical/neo-bullsh*t economics, taught in American business schools doesn't recognize.  That's making money, and that why we're studying economics!  This is off the subject.

It's the media structure put in place to get the American people on board with WWI that is to be feared.  All mass media is provided for the purpose of advertisement.  While corporations might try to inject some morality in their material, along with the sales hustle, the show makers are trying to help the advertisers, and the show and the commercial become intertwined.  Add to that the involvement of think tanks, with their cadres of social psychologists, and how they poke an prod us to think the right way, and it's impossible to discern reality from the ravings of a lunatic.