Topic: Any guides to scratchbuilding out there? (Read 3857 times)

Wolf2525 · « **on:** August 10, 2003, 10:38:36 pm »

I was just wondering. Trying to get up the go to try and model a few of the early ships in between working on my wargame minis. I have the basic idea down, but I was wondering if there were any guides out there for modeling or texturing. I'd just like something to fall back on instead of going into it blind.

Captain Ron · « **Reply #1 on:** August 11, 2003, 02:41:26 am »

There are for texturing but i haven't really found a good one for making models. Most have good areas for how to fix errors and other issues but not anything on how to actually do most are just try this and see if you like it. I think it is because everyone developes what works for them and it may not be as good for another.

sandman69247 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 11, 2003, 09:04:44 am »

1st, what program are you using? If it's max, there's a good tut for building the original Enterprise 1701 "No bloody a,b,c or d".

I'm on my wifes puter right now so don't have the addy, but IIRC it is web page . Then there are the ones at Scifi-Meshes, they're really good too, but more for high poly models. Hope this helps.

PS: Just chk'd the link it works.

Wolf2525 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 11, 2003, 04:20:04 pm »

Cool, that'll get me started. Thanks guys!

sandman69247 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 11, 2003, 10:53:08 pm »

Quote:

Cool, that'll get me started. Thanks guys!

Great! Hope they help you ot.

Also, I know it sounds weird, but the tut that you get with gmax for the P-38 fighter, has a lot of the stuff you can use in building a ship. As you practice more, you'll develop your own unique way of doing things, based on your preferences. Every model I do gets a little better than the last because you learn as you go.

Hope to see something from you soon...we're all here to help so holler if ya need us!

Magnum357 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 11, 2003, 11:44:41 pm »

Ya, Sandman is right. The more models you do, the better you get at it. My new models I'm working on now are a little better then the first one I worked on because I came up with a few new minor techniques that really make the models a little more detailed. Just take you time and have fun with it. Heck, listen to Star Trek music while you work on your models. I always listen to First Contact Music or Music from Star Trek 2: The warth of Khan. They really help inspire me.

sandman69247 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 12, 2003, 01:05:55 pm »

I listen to Hard Rock myself, lol.

Wolf2525 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 12, 2003, 09:00:20 pm »

I'd really like to make my own set of TOS ships. I doubt that I'd be able to produce anything that anyone else would want to use, lol, but just for the sake of fun, and knowing I had built them myself. Of course, texturing them is a whole other matter.

And not to sound totally helpless, but does anyone know where to find good three-views of TOS ships? I've had some trouble locating any good ones. The only ones I've been able to find are the paint guides on the backs of the packages for my SFB minis, lol. Other than that, I've got some I can use from Ertl models, but those I have are not TOS era.

Thanks again, I really appreciate the help.

And those older ships on your site, Sandman, are pretty cool! I had never seen anything like that before. Where did you get the info for those?

Hehe, Magnum, that's probably a good idea...

<Edit: I did find some at Staryards, but I'm having trouble downloading them. I got a few, but I'm trying to work on an old DN from the drawing on the miniature's box. Unfortunately, I am a dolt with Gmax...

Oh well, it's fun to learn, and I had to do it sometime. I've been itching to try my hand at it, so these first things ought to be pretty scary....

>

DookeyKing · « **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2003, 10:39:47 am »

Sandman - That TOS Ent tutorial is fantastic. I've learned more about MAX in the time I've been working on that than in the whole time I've had the proggie. Thanks a million for the link.

Scott

sandman69247 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 13, 2003, 10:56:12 am »

Well, let's see... Starship Schematics is a good one...canon and fan based designs there. Then there's Ex Astris Scientia , that's where Starfleet Museum is located and that's where I got the pics and info for the pre-TOS ships. Another one is Daystrom Technical Institute but that's more a place for info as the images are usually screenshots and blurry. For some really great fanships you can go here: Star Trek Miranda it's mainly an online RP game, but some really awesome designs there. Hope you find what you're looking for.

Wolf2525 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2003, 04:22:45 pm »

That's exactly what I'd been trying to find. Thank you very, very much! I really appreciate the help!

Wolf2525 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 16, 2003, 09:30:33 am »

I started building a Dreadnought. Here's what I have so far...

It's easier than I had thought it was, even though it's my first work with Max. Granted, it's not very easy, but much easier than I thought.

I'd have more done, but the rolling blackouts up here are putting a damper on things, lol...

sandman69247 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 16, 2003, 11:50:02 am »

Looks good so far...can't wait for more.

Wolf2525 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 16, 2003, 01:17:17 pm »

Hereit is with the secondary hull complete. I noticed I have some bits that need cleaning, but it's coming along nicely. I just need to figure out what program to use to texture it. Anyone have any suggestions? I could use some, lol...

sandman69247 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 16, 2003, 02:12:53 pm »

You can use Paint Shop Pro or Photoshop to do the textures. That's looking fantastic!!

Keep on truckin' bud!!

Wolf2525 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 16, 2003, 02:32:22 pm »

Model is finally done. I shrank the picture down to 640x480 to keep from making this thread 8 feet wide, lol, but here it is.

It came out pretty well, I think. Or at least it looks kinda like a dreadnought...

I didn't get too fancy with the details, to keep it simple, and because I'm only just learning the program.

Regardless, thanks so much for the help. It made this substantially easier. The tutorial you pointed me to was an immense help. I just modified it as I needed to to build this, and simplified it.

Wolf2525 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 16, 2003, 04:40:43 pm »

I have no idea how to create and map textures.... lol....

Oh, and another thing, is it not a good idea to combine everything into one large object? When I left them as is, it would occasionally scramble up some of the objects, and then I would have to reposition everything. I haven't any idea why that keeps happening, but it does, and it seems random.

sandman69247 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 16, 2003, 07:35:57 pm »

Yeah, attach everything together. Just select one item, then in the right panel scroll down until you see "Attach" and "Attach List"; click the list one, select all then select...now you can go to edit>object properties and see how many faces there are.

Looks very good, alot better than my first, lol.

Wolf2525 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 16, 2003, 07:47:19 pm »

DOH!!!!

Way too many faces.... At least compared to the standard models... Oopsie...

Not to mention that I can't get it to export anything to Illustrator format. Keeps telling me "no data selected", even when I have an object selected....

Scorpion · « **Reply #19 on:** August 16, 2003, 10:31:56 pm »

I just wanted to say good job Wolf. That looks way better than my first model too. And thank you very much Sandman. That tutorial helps a lot. I'm planning to go back and update my first model using what I have learned. (I've only done two from scratch so far and have plans for more).

Wolf2525 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 16, 2003, 10:39:38 pm »

Thanks Scorpion!

But I fear part of the reason it looks so good is that it WAY too complex to be used in SFC. Not unless you're on a Cray or something, lol....

Now, if I can pull my head out of my rear and figure out how to export a map to something to texture it, I can make some neat screenies. Then I work on toning it down to work in the game.

And I do hope others can use that tutorial. That was a great help.

Wolf2525 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 16, 2003, 11:34:11 pm »

Correction, the Illustrator exporter says no data to export. Anyone know what I'm doing wrong? I have the model selected.

Also, can someone give me a general idea of how many polys are safe to run in the game?

sandman69247 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 17, 2003, 02:43:18 am »

Don't know about illustrator. There is a little tut that Pataflafla did on making accirate maps for models to texture...I'll dig it up and send it to you, or post on my site.

As for lowering polies, one method is to use the Optimize modifier. It's best used on each component individually, i.e. saucer, 2ndary hull, nacelles etc. One caution on this though is it can wipe out details. On the other hand though, it's good to help make models playable until you can learn the little tricks to make 'em lower. Hell, I'm still working on that myself...most of my stuff is usually 4000+

.

Shoot for 5000 or less to start with, although it can cause an older machine to lag a bit ingame. If you can get them to around 1500-2000 your doing great.

Hope this helps.

Captain KoraH · « **Reply #24 on:** August 17, 2003, 02:44:08 am »

Why are you trying to export it to illustrator anyway? Just texture it in Max. There are some great tuts out there.

Wolf2525 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 17, 2003, 09:45:15 am »

I was trying to export a map to illustrator so I can make textures for it, but I can't for some reason.

Thanks Sandman, I'd appreciate that!

Reverend · « **Reply #26 on:** August 17, 2003, 12:21:59 pm »

Wish I could model so I could have some real input here, like these other folks here.... I have been a trustworthy observer, having a decent amount of taste to know what is good, and enough class to not comment on what I think could be lacking....
either way, for a first model, Wolf, that is a supremely good job- please do keep up the great works!

Wolf2525 · « **Reply #27 on:** August 17, 2003, 01:41:09 pm »

Thanks, Reverend!

You should give it a shot. Even if it's only for the heck of it. That tutorial Sandman pointed me to was all I really needed to get my bearings in Max. And once you get past that, it's really easy. It's a little tedious until you start to get some of the hotkeys down, but it's much easier than it looks. Plus, as you can see, there is people who will give you a hand with it.

Now I'm building some other models to try to cut back on the polys without dropping quality too much. That first one was around 14000 polys, which is a bit too much, lol. But it didn't take too long to build. I was right in the middle of those blackouts, so that put a damper on things, but it didn't take nearly as long as I expected. Just have to work on texturing next. Which I imagine will take quite a bit of time.

Wolf2525 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 18, 2003, 08:29:28 pm »

How do these look? I'm trying to stick to lower polys, but these seem a bit chunky. I don't know how they'd look in game, as the ship is much smaller, but I thought I'd try to get some input.

I'm tyring to build some "spare" parts to use when building later models with similar pieces.

sandman69247 · « **Reply #29 on:** August 19, 2003, 12:24:12 am »

Those look really good!

If you're worried about the saucer edge being too faceted, you can make it look rounder by selecting the "wedge" edges on the rim, the vertical ones.(Beer, beer, beer

) After selecting an edge, scroll the right panel down until you see "chamfer"; select it and the in the rollout input a value of 5; if it looks good, keep that value and select another edge, going around the saucer rim. That will help make it look rounder and only add a few polys.

For the nacelle, except with the Enterprise, get rid of the bubble on the back. The Enterprise is really the only ship you see with the bubble, so eliminating it can save you a lot of polys.

Hope this helps.

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Topic: Any guides to scratchbuilding out there? (Read 3857 times)