Topic: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made

[kortez]

No, WaterTiger, it is you who are trying to find anything to create differences and problems.  That argument of yours is the trouble.  I see you rejected my attempt to see a change in tune.

Looking for trouble ... not good.  I have been asked, ASKED, mind you, if you are here to fight with us.

[Age]

This needs to be addressed. I know that there are plans within D.Net to address this issue - but this is really a community wide discussion that needs to happen. For the longest time those who play sfc3 are considered second tier citizens in this community.

this is not just my feelings, but the feelings of many. If it ain't sfb, its unwelcome.

It is my hope that with taldren gone that we can grow up a little and band together if *any* sort of community is to survive. The question is - do people want this? I sincerely hope so.

Whether it is lack of acceptance of people with differing opinions - or acknowledgement of the work done with sfc3 mods - i believe that we need to bring everyone together.

What do you mean by "grow up".  SFC3 fans tend to be much younger i.e. teens and early 20's, while SFC OP and EAW fans are older and more mature.....maybe late 20's to early 40's.

As far as bringing the SFC3 fans and earlier game fans together...that is probably impractical.  Perhaps an "all eras" game could do that.....IF it gave us the gameplay of SFC OP and earlier but expanded that to all eras.  The gameplay of SFC3 is boring by comparison.

The problem is that SFC3 and the previous games have very little in common.  When Activision made SFC3 it's like they made a totally different game.  They should have called it something other than SFC.  It's just not the same game.  It's no wonder there are two separate communities.  I don't see how you can merge these two communities....they're like Apples and Oranges compared to each other.

I don't think there is a survival problem.  This community has lasted much longer than almost every other game community I've seen.  Most of the one's who have left are SFC3 folks that really don't feel the same loyalty to the game that the SFB fans have to the earlier games.

Activision didn't make SFC.3 Taldren did and it is a SFC game.

[Age]

Just wanted to say to Nannerslug that I fully agree with part of a statement in that "other thread" that SFC:TNG is the best cannon TNG game out there. It does have a lot of good features for a trek star ship game. I have dug it out and reinstalled it each time a patch has come out and played it for a while just to be sure of how the game plays. As far as games go it was/is good. I did not get ripped off in any way with it's purchase.

BUT there is one thing that drives me away each time, after my initial installation enthusiasm leaves me, and that is the angular velocity thing. Take it out (no - don't even put in SFC's EW instead), just take it out and get rid of the dog fighting aspect of the game and you will get rid of that undelying repulsive force that the game has for me. Personally that one thing (AV) ruins it for me, and all the other good TNG game stuff can't overcome the build up of negative energy about that silly angular velocity and dog fighting.

On the other side I have problems with the D2 and the way it works, or more correctly doesn't work, but those D2 mechanics are not as repulsive to me, such that I can put up with it for the SFC2 style of game combat. Essentially the mechanics of OP are not the best but they don't repel me in the same way as AV does.

Anyway TNG (patched) is a better than okay game but it has one thing which eventually drives me away from it each time I play, and that is a personal preference.

Cleaven ignore the AV if you don't like it.It can't be removed.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

No, WaterTiger, it is you who are trying to find anything to create differences and problems.  That argument of yours is the trouble.  I see you rejected my attempt to see a change in tune.

Looking for trouble ... not good.  I have been asked, ASKED, mind you, if you are here to fight with us.

Kortez,

For the love of God, listen.

Go the a Webster's. Understand the word "community." Understand, please the word "fight" and "discussion" ... Know the differance between and "arguement" and a "debate."

It does not mean everyone has to agree with the cops who run the place. That is not a community.

A community is made up of people of all races, all classes, all ages and varying understandings and educations. It is made up of people who percieve things differently.

In answer to the original posters question, NO .. we can't come together. The Alpha Male Syndrom is too alive and the control buttons are just too handy.

Kortez came to SFC Modding forums and baited me the other day ... Launched right into a personal attack. Funny when the person on the other end has the controls. He then asks to be deleted, frustrated.

I have felt like deleting my account here a number of times ... But I suppose I will stick it out.

Or I could take heed to KoraH's words that seem to haunt me:

====
Remember my advice to you Wade, that you should drop SFC and find something else to play. If you
would rather continue with SFC, that's certainly your choice, but you will find that all you have
to put up with to do so is going to sour the sweetness of your hard work.

====

[Cleaven]

Cleaven ignore the AV if you don't like it.It can't be removed.

Okay, I'll bite. I'm willing to learn. How do you ignore the negative effects of angular velocity on hit percentages in SFC:TNG? If you can do this then it won't just be me that you bring back to playing SFC:TNG.

Or are you just trying to be weakly amusing?

[Age]

In SFC1&2 there are some elements to SFB not 100% of it is SFBs.This is on your game when you first boot up your game eg when you first see Empires at War or Orion Pirates look at the lower left bottom of the screen.This is where you see the Viacom/Paramount logo as well  read what it says.I like them all SFC1,2&3 but I can't wait for a more accurate 23C. style game like SFC3.

[Age]

Cleaven ignore the AV if you don't like it.It can't be removed.

Okay, I'll bite. I'm willing to learn. How do you ignore the negative effects of angular velocity on hit percentages in SFC:TNG? If you can do this then it won't just be me that you bring back to playing SFC:TNG.

Or are you just trying to be weakly amusing?

I never look at it anyway I just look at the HUD.I only look there for the range and speed of the ship not the AV.

[Strat]

I think a lesson to be seen here is that cooperation should transcend such barriers as age group and game type.

Granted you can not unit the two, you can't unite anything that is diametrically opposite.  However, cooperation can be attainted across these boarders, the theme that people be able to unite dispite differnences is a theme fight for.

Outside of that, I see no reason the 'cultural' (Yes, its a metaphor) differences here should cause a separation with people in this community with at least one thing in common:

We play a Star Trek Game.

And when you think about it, there are many more than that too.

[Cleaven]

I never look at it anyway I just look at the HUD.I only look there for the range and speed of the ship not the AV.

So how does not looking at it remove the effects of the angular velocity modifier?

[Dash Jones]

I can't believe some of the statements made here!

Are people that bitter!

I have to say I play both SFC:OP and SFC3.  If I had my druthers on how another SFC game came out, I would invariably side with it being more like SFC:OP, but I hardly think that means that I can't get along with others!

[Crusader]

Activision didn't make SFC.3 Taldren did and it is a SFC game.

Of course Taldren made it.

My point was that Taldren was not originally planning on making SFC3 a TNG game.  They wanted SFC3 to be a sequel to EAW.

Activision was the driving force behind what SFC3 became......to my horror and many others.

[Klingon Fanatic]

I can't believe some of the statements made here!

Are people that bitter!

I have to say I play both SFC:OP and SFC3.  If I had my druthers on how another SFC game came out, I would invariably side with it being more like SFC:OP, but I hardly think that means that I can't get along with others!

Well said Mr. Jones! I agree 100%.

If people REALLY want to 'bridge the gap' between the SFC3 crowd and SFC:OP than perhaps a PURELY TMP Mod for SFC should be made. From an outsiders point of view one might get the impression that the ONLY mods for SFC3 are TNG/Post TNG with a few TMP/TOS models thrown in the mix. BORING IMHO.

Yeah, yeah, not all the "appropriate weapons/effects are  NOT available to SFC3" [e.g., Tholian web, MORE fighters/missiles] but so what. One of the great strengths of the community is our ability to improvise.

I know I want to play an SFC3 Mod where its the Andromedans and ISC instead of the Borg and Cardassians and  I believe if I really knew how to do it SFC3 could have a REALLY cool Klingon Academy style mod.

One of the things I personally dislike about SFC3 is how difficult it is for the novice to add ships or completely replace the STOCK TNG ones in the two shiplists. Compare that to SFC2/OP...

Failing that Core EDit should be completed.

Finally, IF the source code for SFC:OP is released in the near future, SFC3 may lose more players to an even more mallable game.

Qapla!

KF

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Finally, IF the source code for SFC:OP is released in the near future, SFC3 may lose more players to an even more mallable game.

Qapla!

KF

Please, stop talking about the source code. It won't happen in a million years. It gives all of us false hope.

<S>

AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

[Cleaven]

Finally, IF the source code for SFC:OP is released in the near future, SFC3 may lose more players to an even more mallable game.

Qapla!

KF

Please, stop talking about the source code. It won't happen in a million years. It gives all of us false hope.

<S>

AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

I understand there are a few obstacles in the road of the OP source code, but nothing insurmountable. As long as those responsible for the IP express a desire to negotiate those abstacles and make it available then I am very optimistic. Plasma bolts and G-racks please.

SFC:TNG source code on the other hand is likely to be locked in legal limbo for quite some time, and even then I don't see a good outcome. And don't think I wouldn't like to see it. The first mod that removes angular velocity as a hit modifier is a winner. Simplest thing to do is lock it to zero, but even a (more difficult) change to the calculations to use delta AV would be a winner. 

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Cleavan,

Why does AV bug you so much? 

It makes the game fun. It is another aspect of the game.

On EAW/OP you have similar hit to damage to distance to range systems of calculation.

<S>

[Cleaven]

Cleavan,

Why does AV bug you so much? 

It makes the game fun. It is another aspect of the game.

On EAW/OP you have similar hit to damage to distance to range systems of calculation.

<S>

Perhaps you should play OP again. There is no modifier based on the angle of attack for your shot. This is reminiscent of dog fighting games, and starship battles of the sort we expect to see in this game are not about getting on your targets tail and hammering away like Snoopy Vs the Red Baron.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

There is no modifier based on the angle of attack for your shot

OMG! Sure there is ...

[Nicola_Venra]

I honestly don't see how the bridge can be gapped when even the central community sites of SFC 3 and trek gaming dont even trust each other.

[kortez]

It could happen, if all the BS were removed.  But more likely, would be to see the SFC3 community cut the garbage out and get along better.  However, I keep banging my head into the wall suggesting that and as soon as I am done posting more insults and such are posted.  It's dysfunctional, and until it stops, I don't see any hope. 

The problem is made worse when posters ignore my warnings thinking I will keep on being generous, but it has to stop ... NOW.

Thanks for your post.  Let's hope we can make something work before trouble breaks out AGAIN.

Kortez

[Cleaven]

There is no modifier based on the angle of attack for your shot

OMG! Sure there is ...

Are you seriously saying that you think OP has an angle of attack calculation in it's weapon to hit modifiers?

Because if you are serious it just shows that you don't know the facts with respect to SFC2:OP. This is a discredit to you.