Topic: Socratic Seminar II: Ship-Design Process.

[FoaS_XC]

This Socratic Seminar is hereby open. This one will discuss how people design ships. Now, it is understood throughout this that everyone is different, and as such, so will their design methods/philosophy will also be different. This is just to offer ideas on methods, and to expand the general community knowledge.

Here is what i do to design ships, or at least, get me in the general mood to design.

First of all, i would ask myself a few questions about the race that the ship is for. What are they like biologically, what is their history, what is the philosophical outlook. Allow me to show an example: I created a race long ago, called the vegans. they were built for Zero-G environments - as such they have no legs, but actually another set of arms, but anyways their starships reflect that they arent bothered by Zero-G.

Next, i will start to hash out quick perspective sketches. small enough to fit aobut 10 on a normal-sized paper, i will spend no more than 10 seconds on each sketch. This is meant to start getting ideas out in the open. After about a page (both sides) of doing this, i will grab what i like the most and do a more refined picture - about 2 minutes worth - just to coalate all the aspects of the designs that i like into one.

I will start then, to design smaller ships based around the one - should that be needed in the design scheme.

beyong that i rarely go, but its a good start.


A far as trek goes, i always try to fill gaps in design lineages - for example, what was in between the Constellation and the Cheyenne? what was between the Saladin and the Freedom....most of my excelsior variants come from those kinds of questions.

[MajorRacal]

Well I seldom sketch (any more)... A lot of the models I create, I have had in my head for a long time, so I have a good idea of what I want from them before I start.  However, I'll also use shapes I see around me, for example, the new Gorn ships I've been running with, were inspired by the wheel rigging of passenger trains (I spend a lot of time in train stations for work) - although that may not necessarily be obvious when you look at them.

What I'm not so good at, is working from other peoples' designs, because I find it difficult to translate the lines into a 3D shape inside my head... which I suppose sounds a little odd.

MajorRacal

[Azel]

I approach design from the "what has not been done before" approach ..or the "Devil's Advocate" route...meaning I like to push the envolope
(I am sure you guys can attest to)...I have notice that I tend to Use alot of curves and/or utilize a strong curvilinear  design astectic  when it comes to a far futuristic design.
And tended to use strong "hard" lines when a design calls to be more industrial or retro in its look....
I also ltake alot of inspiration from the "natural" world (I say natural with quotes, to differenciate  from my belief that all things are natural ....Even machines are natural...as they are an evolutionary  extention of us...but that's getting a tad off topic...lol) . I look  at rocks , trees, animals, parts of machinery etc.. for shapes that I can utilize for concepts...I mean I'll even take a look at a crack in the sidewalk or a stain on a wall/floor and find some insight that I could use.
Its hard to pinpoint where my or most people get their inspiration...But all I say is to not discount your own feelings towards an idea...I mean look at books if you want too, or draw doodles or whatever...the point is to do...not to dwell...If you think about a design too much...your not producing anything...you have to put your ideas on paper or on a computer or model it or anything...but you got to get the concept from the infinite aspect of your mind to the finite aspect of the "real" word . Only then can you really understand the reality of the concept...so you can change and manipulate the idea till it suits your ideal....By doing this, it helps in  2 fold ...first: It allows you to rationalize the design, and "perfect" the concept...and Second: you can have variants  that you can make  .  Another advantage to having an idea out in the "real" world is that you can begin to create personal refferences that you can call upon when you need it.
All designs should have proportion...the trick is proportion is a relative concept that can only be defined by either references from the "natural" world as in a practical and/or engineering sense , or from the whim of the designer...For example...If you are creating a new race or a new world you are (for all intents and purposes) playing "god" or "mother nature"...and thus you can do what you want...but if you are designing a ship for say...the federation then I would look towards the design aspects of mulitiple  races and concepts that have been established, and can be introduced (hope that makes sense).
So to make this post short:
Bottom line...you can get your inspiration from anything or anywhere...from established works or totally obscure sources.
Also...you HAVE to get the ideas down...don't keep them harbored in your head
Lastly...and many who know me know I believe in this: never give up...don't be discouraged if your concepts don't come out the way you envisioned...Or if someone tries to be disway you...keep them(as in don't through them out...as the idea is the most important aspect of design...not the finished pieces ...as the finished pieces can be reproduced at any time...the concept cannot) and Keep on doing

PS: as my sig says "All things end"...I use this to remind me that once an idea is done as a finished piece then it has ended...but it creates  room for something new

Hope that helps...
OK Atolm will shout up now

[Captain Pierce]

meaning I like to push the envolope

You do?  Really?  Somehow, I'd never noticed...

:p

[FoaS_XC]

i know exactly what you are saying, Atolm, or at least, id like to think i do.

One time, i was visiting with my girlfriends family, and her father has a very insightful book on snowflakes (one i recommend, it has a lot of information on formation, and it has lots of microsopic photography, very good book). But i learned about the formation of the water crystals that are attributed to the formation of snowflakes. Almost immediately, i started applying this to starship design, like i had just been handed an epiphany of starship design philosophy in a book. So i started to think: "alright, lets go tholian-esque...suppose people "grew" their starships...and i liked the idea of Hex-based ships, much like a snowflake. the story goes on. and ultimately I ended up with even construction technique for the starships, and afterwards, the kind of alien-race that would use them, and so on and so forth...

its amazing how much you can draw looking at - as you said - the "natural" world. or as i will rephrase, the "granted" world...Just sit, breathe, and observe, and the rest will come naturally, once you learn to listen.

[Sandman3D]

I usually just sit down with a pencil and paper and start drawing...usually I have a basic shape I want to incorporate, so I start with that and work from there. For example, this morning at around 3:30, unable to get to sleep (just got home from inventory at work), and since my wife was sleeping and my puter is in the BR, I went to the living room and started drawing. 5 hours later I had a front, back, left and top sketched out, as well as the back story ready to be outlined...finished that a few hours ago. Now I need to find the time to model it.

That's an example...usually I just start drawing and the design and back story just come along. BTW, this model/story is in alternate universe with hyper-drive, lasers and missiles and takes place in the near future...2060's to be precise. New alliances and enemies, new intrigues...might just have to make it a web novel.

[Lord Schtupp]

Well I seldom sketch (any more)... A lot of the models I create, I have had in my head for a long time, so I have a good idea of what I want from them before I start.  However, I'll also use shapes I see around me, for example, the new Gorn ships I've been running with, were inspired by the wheel rigging of passenger trains (I spend a lot of time in train stations for work) - although that may not necessarily be obvious when you look at them.

You mean the trucks on the passenger cars? yea I can see it -  thats cool. so are you a railfan Mjr Recal?

[Lord Schtupp]

One time, i was visiting with my girlfriends family, and her father has a very insightful book on snowflakes (one i recommend, it has a lot of information on formation, and it has lots of microsopic photography, very good book). But i learned about the formation of the water crystals that are attributed to the formation of snowflakes. Almost immediately, i started applying this to starship design, like i had just been handed an epiphany of starship design philosophy in a book. So i started to think: "alright, lets go tholian-esque...suppose people "grew" their starships...and i liked the idea of Hex-based ships, much like a snowflake. the story goes on. and ultimately I ended up with even construction technique for the starships, and afterwards, the kind of alien-race that would use them, and so on and so forth...

its amazing how much you can draw looking at - as you said - the "natural" world. or as i will rephrase, the "granted" world...Just sit, breathe, and observe, and the rest will come naturally, once you learn to listen.

Thats good and I agree. There has to be one underliying theme to build a design on, and the better designs i noted keep the competing influnces to a minimum.

Great topic BTW FS, along with your other one on scale.

[MajorRacal]

Yeah, LS, that's exactly what I mean... I can't say I'm a huge railfan though, I just spend a lot of time on trains because I don't drive and mostly work outside of Glasgiow.

[FoaS_XC]

Bump

[Red_Green]

Well, when I designed some TNG Hydrans, I looked at the TMP models from SFC whith an idea to capture the basic tendencies.
What I determined was that the HYdran hulls were made out of fairly simple shapes and most hulls were fairly steamlined. Most not all, but that seamed the general theam. I then thought about how they might evolve. Then I might listen to the HYdran theme music and play HYdran. Read about the Hydran background. A lot of cival wars amongst Hydrans that Survived being conquederd by KLingons. IN short I eat, sleep and drink Hydran. Then go for a walk and reflect on Hydran ships. Then put on music for Homeworld which sets the SCI-FI ship design atmosphere and is quite relaxing. Then I do part of a mesh and let it sit on my hard drive for a week. Reflecting on how I could improve the mesh or sometimes even how can I mesh the design, As my mesh skills sometimes limit me. But thats only temporary.   Then I might come up with a new mesh idea. What I am best at is combining ideas from 1 ship mesh into a second, thus I get a 3rd ship out of the 1st two.

Whats important to me is no matter how bad something turns out, I keep it. Cause design is an evolution and it might not be all bad, it might be just that I can't transfer a good idea into the mesh, but if I see it later when my mesh skills have improved, I might be able to finish it.


I use simple shapes in my ships and my favorite designs by others tend to be simple shapes. Simple shapes can be made into a complicated design by just continuing to add layers on top of layers. Its important for me not to go too far as too many layers can look cluttered. I don't think I have any complicated designs yet but simple design can be good. Take a basketball for example. Simple but a good design. Or the whell comes to mind. Simple, efficient and pragmatic.  One thing I did with a Fed once was put holes in the struts. People didn't like that(resistance to change)  But if you think about it. You see a lot af designs that save material resources. ITs likely that the material to build a ship hull would be highly sought after and expensive. SO design would find a way to conserve material without losing strength. Hey MAJOR RACAL, I see  this on center beam train cars all the time. They dont make the center beam out of solid steel. Its a crisscross pattern odf steel that maximizes strength while saving material. Another train reference. My other major hobby is I have an 'N' gauge train layout on a ping pong table. Highly detailed over a period of 12 years. Its as detailed as any you would see at a train show. I actually prefer that to meshing ships because people never say 'Your missing this or that", they just get a big grin on there face and point to things they like. Especially the kids. You know so many of us modders have huge egos. Especially me, I tend to compete in this forum and it isn't fun then. But I digress and I have to own those issues cause ther mine. 


I also tend to like to incorporate retro stuff. Shapes of the classic cars of the 50's and what not. Along those retor lines, tends to come streamlined design. As the 50's was the 'Jet era'  when flying was just starting to boom and shapes were generally areo-dynamic. Not in a modern Stealth fighter way, but a smooth roundness. I definatly like flowing curves. Woman are a good example-"er better not go there"

[wulf111]

Well I seldom sketch (any more)... A lot of the models I create, I have had in my head for a long time, so I have a good idea of what I want from them before I start. 

What I'm not so good at, is working from other peoples' designs, because I find it difficult to translate the lines into a 3D shape inside my head... which I suppose sounds a little odd.

MajorRacal

I am the same way i seldom sketch acually i cant sketch i used to have alot of talent in art but as i grew older i have lost alot of it or shall i say i have traded talents to more of an engineer than an artist but the two are so close anyways.

Now doing peoples designs is where i think i excell at i usually break down the ship into the most basic shapes and go from there like take the Warhammer i did (as seen in another post) can you believe all I used was a sphere to do the base mesh and all the rest was parts extruded, booleaned, or shapemerged.