Topic: Windows Product Activation (WPA)  (Read 9380 times)

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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2005, 09:48:06 am »
Now I know my cousin doesn't believe this, BUT officially, Microsoft has stated that if they ever stop suppoting XP and the activation, then they will provide a workaround.

The question would be if you believe they will do that or not.

I have never heard that.  If they do make a legally binding commitment to do so it will remove one of the valid complaints about activation.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2005, 09:54:53 am »
I know this might be the rabid left winger in me, but I personally believe that shipping a computer without a working OS and installation disks should be illegal, since a computer with no OS is an inert lump of metal and plastic...

Why should I be forced to pay someone else to do a generic install of Linux when I have my own (legal) install disks and will just have to redo it to my custom setup as soon as it arrives?  Even my Windows system is custom setup in ways that a Dell or HP would never be shipped in.  Ways that Microsoft would do well to emulate as they enhance stability and the ability to recover data after a reinstall.

Dell is currently shipping (officially anyhow) a machine with no OS installed but a FreeDOS cd included.  There are reports that it a/ costs more than a Windows machine b/ is hard to find on the website c/ can't actually be bought.  So it may be more of a publicity ploy or a negotiating ploy for dealings with Microsoft.
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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2005, 10:46:29 am »
Quote

Will Microsoft use activation to force me to upgrade? In other words, will Microsoft ever stop giving out activation codes for any of the products that require activation?

No, Microsoft will not use activation as a tool to force people to upgrade. Activation is merely an anti-piracy tool, nothing else.

Microsoft will also support the activation of Windows XP throughout its life and will likely provide an update that turns activation off at the end of the product's lifecycle so users would no longer be required to activate the product.



http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation_faq.mspx
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Offline Commander Maxillius

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2005, 11:35:15 am »
When Vista comes out and people notice that Windows machines cost (base) over $1000 compared to under $500 now with XP, they'll see that even the Macintosh has become more cost-effective.


I don't see component capabilities increasing that far without a hefty pricetag.


Thus explains why I've switched to Mac.
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Offline prometheus

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2005, 11:46:09 am »
I know this might be the rabid left winger in me, but I personally believe that shipping a computer without a working OS and installation disks should be illegal, since a computer with no OS is an inert lump of metal and plastic...

Why should I be forced to pay someone else to do a generic install of Linux when I have my own (legal) install disks and will just have to redo it to my custom setup as soon as it arrives?  Even my Windows system is custom setup in ways that a Dell or HP would never be shipped in.  Ways that Microsoft would do well to emulate as they enhance stability and the ability to recover data after a reinstall.

Dell is currently shipping (officially anyhow) a machine with no OS installed but a FreeDOS cd included.  There are reports that it a/ costs more than a Windows machine b/ is hard to find on the website c/ can't actually be bought.  So it may be more of a publicity ploy or a negotiating ploy for dealings with Microsoft.

You would not be foreced to pay someone else to do a generic install of Linux, because if you build your own custom computers as I do and you do, then you would not be buying a generic ready made PC...  This would mean that the advanced user would not be throwing money at someone for installing an OS, and that the less advanced user would have a free OS provided to them...

To cut a long story short, I think that Closed Source Operating Systems should be forbidden, and that the windows code should be open sourced forthwith.  Hell, most of it is just butchered unix code anyway...


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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2005, 01:53:18 pm »
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Microsoft will also support the activation of Windows XP throughout its life and will likely provide an update that turns activation off at the end of the product's lifecycle so users would no longer be required to activate the product.

Likely provide.  Not exactly a binding commitment.  What is the Microsoft life span for Windows? 10 years?  I don't think that is good enough.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2005, 02:08:07 pm »
You would not be foreced to pay someone else to do a generic install of Linux, because if you build your own custom computers as I do and you do, then you would not be buying a generic ready made PC...  This would mean that the advanced user would not be throwing money at someone for installing an OS, and that the less advanced user would have a free OS provided to them...

Businesses use Linux too and they are also better off with custom installs.  Why should they be forced to pay for a generic install of a version of Linux that does not neccesarilly in any way match their desires.  Why should they have to pay the computer manufacturer for an OS when they may already have a licensing/support agreement with a Linux company?

I see no benefit to the customer or the computer manufacturer from requiring a mandatory installed OS.  It is a cost for both and not alwasys needed. 

To cut a long story short, I think that Closed Source Operating Systems should be forbidden, and that the windows code should be open sourced forthwith. 

Can't agree.  They created it and have the right to keep what they created.  Just as I have the right to tell them "no sale Bill".

Hell, most of it is just butchered unix code anyway...

Proof?  Or just rhetoric?

If this was true then when substantial quantities of Windows source were leaked out I think it would have been front page news.  Too many people would have a field day with this if it cold be shown to be true so I find it very difficult to believe.

They do use (or did use) some BSD/Unix code for the TCP/IP stack - totally legitimately and honestly.  I believe they may also be shipping PERL (or was it Python?) with some Windows editions, also legitmately and honestly.
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Offline prometheus

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2005, 06:54:38 pm »
You would not be foreced to pay someone else to do a generic install of Linux, because if you build your own custom computers as I do and you do, then you would not be buying a generic ready made PC...  This would mean that the advanced user would not be throwing money at someone for installing an OS, and that the less advanced user would have a free OS provided to them...

Businesses use Linux too and they are also better off with custom installs.  Why should they be forced to pay for a generic install of a version of Linux that does not neccesarilly in any way match their desires.  Why should they have to pay the computer manufacturer for an OS when they may already have a licensing/support agreement with a Linux company?

I see no benefit to the customer or the computer manufacturer from requiring a mandatory installed OS.  It is a cost for both and not alwasys needed. 

To cut a long story short, I think that Closed Source Operating Systems should be forbidden, and that the windows code should be open sourced forthwith. 

Can't agree.  They created it and have the right to keep what they created.  Just as I have the right to tell them "no sale Bill".

Hell, most of it is just butchered unix code anyway...

Proof?  Or just rhetoric?

If this was true then when substantial quantities of Windows source were leaked out I think it would have been front page news.  Too many people would have a field day with this if it cold be shown to be true so I find it very difficult to believe.

They do use (or did use) some BSD/Unix code for the TCP/IP stack - totally legitimately and honestly.  I believe they may also be shipping PERL (or was it Python?) with some Windows editions, also legitmately and honestly.

Rhetoric, I must admit...  I was assuming that because the internet protocols are all UNIX based that it will be so across the board in the OS, which could be untue...  But I think that all computer OS should be Open Sourced and government owned...  To my mind, there has never been a better case for eminent domain...


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Offline Mr_Tricorder

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2005, 09:43:15 pm »
...  But I think that all computer OS should be Open Sourced and government owned...  To my mind, there has never been a better case for eminent domain...
That's a very socialistic point of view.  I consider myself to be a very patriotic person, but I don't trust the government to provide me with a good quality OS.  Besides, that's not the government's job.  Our capitalistic system in the US is currently in the process of balancing itself out right now.  Microsoft has spent many years abusing the capitalistic system by gaining a virtual monopoly through strong-arm tactics instead of providing quality products that were superior to their competitors' products.  This unethical practice is now catching up with them.  More and more people have become discontent with Microsoft and are swithing from their products to their competitors' products, like Macintosh, Linux, and Open Source applications like OpenOffice and Firefox.  These alternatives are keeping Microsoft in check because they are taking away enough of Microsoft's market share to cause them to realize that they really need to do something about their software.

Do you think the government would offer a variety of OSes to choose from, or would they make things much easier on themselves by only offering one standardized OS?  How good would the tech support be?  How often would a new version with new innovations be released?  If someone came up with a better, non government-owned OS would it be illegal?

Offline Sarek

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2005, 02:52:35 am »

Rhetoric, I must admit...  I was assuming that because the internet protocols are all UNIX based that it will be so across the board in the OS, which could be untue...  But I think that all computer OS should be Open Sourced and government owned...  To my mind, there has never been a better case for eminent domain...

Government owed!  Just what I need, the government telling me what OS I can use and no doubt reporting what I do with my computer. 
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Offline prometheus

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2005, 04:16:04 am »
Actually, I was blind drunk when I wrote that last night, and I've no idea what the hell I was thinking of...  At the moment in the clear light of morning, the thought of Tony Blair providing my operating system is frankly appalling... 


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Offline Commander Maxillius

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2005, 10:57:18 pm »
although I find the idea equally revolting, IF it were to come to that, Apple should start lobbying congress now :lol:
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Offline FA Frey XC

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2005, 12:19:28 pm »
I have reinstalled my version of WinXP probably 100 times on my gaming machine over the last 3 years.....

I now even have a copy of Windows XP SP2 that works just fine with my Pre SP1 CD key.

Yes, there have been numerous time I've had to call and get a install ID to re-activate....and it took me all of 10 minutes.

Of course, if this discussion were actually on topic, then it'd be about honesty and personal integrity, not being mad because you can't install Windows onto as many PC's as you'd like with one key.

That's just silly.
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Offline Elvis

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2005, 01:06:58 pm »
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Well, I've paid 93.00 ($160.00) for a copy of XP that they refused to reactiviate and I swear that it is the last penny they will get from me..

Just curious did they give you reason when you talked to them on the phone?

I've never had a problem with getting an activation code over the phone.

Offline prometheus

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2005, 01:46:33 pm »
I have reinstalled my version of WinXP probably 100 times on my gaming machine over the last 3 years.....

I now even have a copy of Windows XP SP2 that works just fine with my Pre SP1 CD key.

Yes, there have been numerous time I've had to call and get a install ID to re-activate....and it took me all of 10 minutes.

Of course, if this discussion were actually on topic, then it'd be about honesty and personal integrity, not being mad because you can't install Windows onto as many PC's as you'd like with one key.

That's just silly.


It just happens to be a personal belief of mine that all operating systems should be open sourced...  By having the windows, the most populist and commonly used OS around, source closed, inovation has been held back years...  I don't have anything against Bill Gates making a profit, but not at the expense of human progress...


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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2005, 04:11:29 pm »
Of course, if this discussion were actually on topic, then it'd be about honesty and personal integrity, not being mad because you can't install Windows onto as many PC's as you'd like with one key.

That's just silly.

For some of us it is an issue with allowing Microsoft control of our systems.  Micrososft decides whether I am entitled to install the software on my system after a given upgrade.  Microsoft decides if I can continue using it after they stop supporting it.  I have even had Windows tell me that I couldn't copy a disk that I had legal rights to copy.  Microsoft is a convicted abusive monopolist, I don't trust them to control my system.  They have yet to demonstrate honesty and corporate integrity.   

It is my system, provided I stay within the law I am the one who is entitled to control what I do with it.  Microsoft is not the legal authorities and should not be acting as if they are.

A EULA should not be allowed to take away rights that I have under the law.  A company should not be able to effectively rewrite the law to give them power and take it away from their customers.

Software is covered by copyright law and the companies that make software should not be able to add unilateral extensions to their rights under the copyright laws at the cost of removing my rights without my willing consent.  Activation does exactly that.
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Offline prometheus

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2005, 05:21:07 pm »
Of course, if this discussion were actually on topic, then it'd be about honesty and personal integrity, not being mad because you can't install Windows onto as many PC's as you'd like with one key.

That's just silly.

For some of us it is an issue with allowing Microsoft control of our systems.  Micrososft decides whether I am entitled to install the software on my system after a given upgrade.  Microsoft decides if I can continue using it after they stop supporting it.  I have even had Windows tell me that I couldn't copy a disk that I had legal rights to copy.  Microsoft is a convicted abusive monopolist, I don't trust them to control my system.  They have yet to demonstrate honesty and corporate integrity.   

It is my system, provided I stay within the law I am the one who is entitled to control what I do with it.  Microsoft is not the legal authorities and should not be acting as if they are.

A EULA should not be allowed to take away rights that I have under the law.  A company should not be able to effectively rewrite the law to give them power and take it away from their customers.

Software is covered by copyright law and the companies that make software should not be able to add unilateral extensions to their rights under the copyright laws at the cost of removing my rights without my willing consent.  Activation does exactly that.

I copy that loud and clear and concur 110%

If microsoft do not want to open source their OS as I feel they should, that is absolutely well within their rights, but surely for an unelected body to invent draconian extensions to legislation should be treated as an infringement of the consumers legal rights? 

It seems to me that if Microsoft wish to force a lot of people to upgrade from XP to whatever the next iteration is, all they have to do is stop supporting XP and stop activating it...

Windows: A 64-bit revamping of a 32-bit extension and graphical shell for a 16-bit patch to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor written by a 2-bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition.


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Offline Mr_Tricorder

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2005, 06:56:52 pm »
I don't have any problem with closed-source commercial software.  There are benefits to commercial software and there are benefits to open-source software, and both have a place in our capitalist society.  However, I do have a problem when a company abuses the system and becomes untrustworthy, like Microsoft has.  Once they realize that they should try to compete fairly through creating superior products instead of trying to crush the competition through lawsuits, propaganda, and bribery, then I might begin to respect them as a company and once again be willing to run their software as my primary choice.  However, unless something changes soon, it looks like that day is a long way off.

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2005, 07:22:27 pm »
Once they realize that they should try to compete fairly through creating superior products instead of trying to crush the competition through lawsuits, propaganda, and bribery, then I might begin to respect them as a company and once again be willing to run their software as my primary choice.


Are you saying that the Microsoft "Get the facts" campaign is propaganda?  Nooo!!.

Google search link to Microsoft get the facts.  Just to get the other sides view on "get the facts".

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Offline Mr_Tricorder

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Re: Windows Product Activation (WPA)
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2005, 09:49:37 pm »
Once they realize that they should try to compete fairly through creating superior products instead of trying to crush the competition through lawsuits, propaganda, and bribery, then I might begin to respect them as a company and once again be willing to run their software as my primary choice.


Are you saying that the Microsoft "Get the facts" campaign is propaganda?  Nooo!!.

Google search link to Microsoft get the facts.  Just to get the other sides view on "get the facts".



Not only is Microsoft's "Get the Facts" campaign blatant propaganda filled with slanted hypothetical situations, half-truths, and bald-faced lies (spouted out by a bald-headed lier), it's a totally pointless and self-defeating campaign for two reasons.

1.   Most Windows users live in total ignorance of alternate OSes (except maybe Macintosh) and use Windows simply because it's what their factory-built, brand name PoS computer came with, and the thought of using another OS is so alien to them that the thought has never even come close tho entering their minds.  These people are good little mindless M$ drones and are not in any danger of switching to open source software and therefore do not need to understand or care about the "Get the Facts" campaign.  (My apologies to any mindless M$ drones who might be reading this, but to clarify, you are only a mindless M$ drone if you have never even considered looking into Macintosh, Linux (or other alternate OS like FreeBSD), Firefox, OpenOffice, or other products that compete with Microsoft products and consider security issues, crashes, freezes, constant restarts, and product activation a normal part of computer operation.  If you are a Microsoft user and/or supporter but do not fit the criteria for M$ drone, then you are an informed Microsoft user, which is something I can respect.)

2.  Those who are not mindless M$ drones are either informed Microsoft users or alternate OS users.  I am assuming that this campaign is primarily focused toward the informed Microsoft users because they are the most likely to switch from Microsoft's products to competing products.  This shows that Microsoft knows that it's products are inferior when objectively compared to its competitors' products.  A good product sells itself, while an inferior product needs to give a reason why you should not use the better product.  Informed users are usually smart enough to see this.  Also, informed users will also usually think about and research a claim to see if it is reasonable and matches up with reality.  The only way you can believe the crap that is in the "Get the Facts" campaign is if you accept it wholeheartedly as soon as you read it without giving it a second thought.  Alternate OS users will definitely not be swayed by the campaign because their own personal experience should contradict it.  No one is going to believe what someone says over that they have actually experienced for themselves.  All this does is give informed users one more reason to be disenchanted with Microsoft and aternate OS users one more reason why they don't use M$ products.

I just switched from "the dark side" to Linux a little over a month ago and only boot into Windows whenever I have to use a particular Windows program (usually 3ds max), I screwed up something in Linux and am trying to learn how to fix it (I still have a lot to learn), or want to play one of my games that I can't run in Linux.  How many other M$ refugees are here?