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Total Members Voted: 33

[C-Los]

I ask this because someone I work with thinks there would only be 3 - 8 players left to play this game, and doesn't think its worth the time involved to make it......   

[FPF-DieHard]

What are the terms? 

90% a yes.

[KBF-Crim]

More like a 138 Clos...

[Bonk]

I will play on any server unconditionally. (though not neccessarily as a nutter)

[Father Ted]

I ask this because someone I work with thinks there would only be 3 - 8 players left to play this game, and doesn't think its worth the time involved to make it......   

Tell that wuss you work with to get off his arse and git'er done! Respect my authoritah!

[el-Karnak]

I ask this because someone I work with thinks there would only be 3 - 8 players left to play this game, and doesn't think its worth the time involved to make it......   

We need 2 things urgently in this community:

• A bonafide Alliance RM with credentials to match the KBF
• A Federation fleet or 2 to re-join the game

Right now, about the only race that can stand up to the KBF are the Kittys when they have enough allied races to back them up. AOTK2 was a good example of how a combined Mirak/Lyran FSD/ISC fleet can win under the leadership of a veteran Kitty RM.  Feds need to find the same combination.  Unfortunately, the Feds have been having these woeful leadership problems for years now.  Feds really have not been a force to be reckoned with after Hooch left.

Until we get the Alliance RM situation fixed, then I would tend to agree that holding a server is a dicey proposition.

[KBFLordKrueg]

I ask this because someone I work with thinks there would only be 3 - 8 players left to play this game, and doesn't think its worth the time involved to make it......   

We need 2 things urgently in this community:

• A bonafide Alliance RM with credentials to match the KBF
• A Federation fleet or 2 to re-join the game

 
I think you have enough of a Fed fleet...IMO, the problem is getting them to stick out the length of the server.
Shoot, all the way through SG0 5 the Alliance had more total players signed up (going by the forum count), but most of them were rarely seen after the first week. We picked up a few players during the course of the campaign that helped even the total numbers, and 90% of the Coalition that signed up, played it out right until the end.
*heard on TS by a former Alliance player*
The Alliance signs up...the Coalition SHOWS up...
Now...as to how to do that...

[762_XC]

Sides will be crucial. F-H-Z-R vs K-G-L-I perhaps?

Geese will probably be needed again.

RADIUS DISENGAGEMENT RULE. If you want people to play, make PvP mean something!

As for an Alliance RM, I'm sure we can dig one up.

[FPF-DieHard]

As for an Alliance RM, I'm sure we can dig one up.

 

[Grim]

The poll is looking positive so far, and yes i would be interested (RL time permitting) to participate in this.

[Bonk]

RADIUS DISENGAGEMENT RULE. If you want people to play, make PvP mean something!

You can't be serious? If that means what I think it means: i.e. a radius of effect of the disengagement rule greater thatn the hex the loss oxccured in? You'll be banned form seven hexes instead of one? If you want a game that welcomes veterans and PvP aces only sure...

PvP has always meant something, way before the exclusionary disengagement rule was concieved of. You lost your ship and were sent back to a base...

Lets say you whack a player and he comes back to the hex, well just whack him again, rinse and repeat until he has no pp left to buy even a frigate...

<shakes head>

I maintain that the disengagement rule has discouraged more new players than it has retained old cranky ones. It is just plain a bad idea, totally unnecsessary and panders to the egos of veteran aces.

It stinks, bad.


edit: case in point - the noisiest proponent of the disengagement rule that I can recall is Kroma, well where is he now?

It has not worked and will never work and will only do damage to the game.

[Dizzy]

Radius disengagement worked on Planets and bases on SG5, but I cant see it working anywhere else. Too hard to keep track of all the hexes. 1 is enough.

[el-Karnak]

As for an Alliance RM, I'm sure we can dig one up.

 

I know that I am getting shriller everytime I re-iterate this, but I guess I gotta do it anyway.

Any RM/ARM has to do the following:

• Play a minimum of 2 hours per night, 6 out of 7 days per week
• Read the forums on a strict daily basis
• Set up daily OP Ords threads in their team forums
• Keep in-house issues in-house, not aired out in a public domain flame-war

I know that most poeple are sensible enough to NOT volunteer for the RM/ARM job if they cannot commit to the above requirements. Any RM/ARM that still volunteers to do the job and CANNOT do the above requirements then they are most probably doing their side more harm than good, because sooner or later the players will get restless and then the destructive infighting starts which absolutely cremates any viable CnC structure.

If you go through the past dynas on both SFC2 and SFC3 and look at the leadership for the sides that win and the leadership for the sides that lose, then you will note that the winning side leaders are hitting on all cylinders of the above requirements while the losing side are not meeting the above requirements and are rapidly descending into leadership chaos and nasty infighting.

[FPF-Wanderer]

Hmmm...<contemplates coming out of RM retirement>...

[FPF-DieHard]

I was actualy laughing at the though of 762 making maps again 

[762_XC]

Bonk, as someone who nuttered on the last two campaigns I will tell you that PvP had ZERO effect on the outcome.

The ideal campaign strikes a balance between PvP and hex flipping. Right now it's all about hex flipping. You want to bring players back, make it more interesting than a single-player campaign.

P.S. My maps rock! 

[Bonk]

Bonk, as someone who nuttered on the last two campaigns I will tell you that PvP had ZERO effect on the outcome.

Right, so the disengagement rule has not helped. Pretty much what I was saying.

The ideal campaign strikes a balance between PvP and hex flipping. Right now it's all about hex flipping. You want to bring players back, make it more interesting than a single-player campaign.

In my experience its not just all about hex flipping, never has been. PvP has always played a role.  PvP plays a much stronger role when player numbers are higher and you're more likely to encounter enemy players on the map. So in my view the current logic many use is kind of a vicious circle of self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think the focus should be on the fun factor, and I agree that PvP provides much more of a thrill. (though late night sneaky underhanded hex-munching missions can be fun too...) 

[Strat]

What if winning a PvP match had more effect on turing and a hex than beating the AI?

That might encourage PvP as being more helpful in hex flipping.

Just an idea, dont really know much about the Dyna mechanics.

[762_XC]

It hasn't helped because it's too weak. It's been watered down to 60 min/30 min, which does nothing. On SS2 we had 100 min/ 50 min and PvP actually played a role as a result.

PvP is basically there for added flavor, because it has no effect on the map (which is the only thing that matters).

Player gets kicked out of hex #1, goes to work on hex #2. By the time he gets tracked down there he's back in hex #1. Net effect of PvP = 0.

[762_XC]

What if winning a PvP match had more effect on turing and a hex than beating the AI?

That might encourage PvP as being more helpful in hex flipping.

Just an idea, dont really know much about the Dyna mechanics.

This is the ideal solution. If we had working SQL we could make PvP victories worth more than PvAI victories, and we probably wouldn't even need a disengagement rule.

The question is whether we'll get to this point before the next server is ready.

[Strat]

Then all we need to do is beg and pray for SQL to work!

For so many more reasons than just this! lol

Please SQL work!  We are READY! 

[GDA-S'Cipio]

What if winning a PvP match had more effect on turing and a hex than beating the AI?

That might encourage PvP as being more helpful in hex flipping.

Just an idea, dont really know much about the Dyna mechanics.

This is the ideal solution. If we had working SQL we could make PvP victories worth more than PvAI victories, and we probably wouldn't even need a disengagement rule.

The question is whether we'll get to this point before the next server is ready.

Keltset actually had this working with SQL for his Dragon's Claw and Dragon's Tooth servers on EAW.   What are the odds people would show up for an EAW server again?

(Don't know if his success means SQL works better for EAW, or if it was just the result of lower player loads.)

-S'Cipio

[Father Ted]

I think I actually reloaded EAW a few months ago, but haven't really messed with it since. 

[762_XC]

Problem with EAW is it's 2 (3?) patches ago.

[Strat]

Isn't the SQL thing the reason we have a Beta going on right now?

Doesn't that mean we are close to having a Working SQL Dyna Server?

[KBFLordKrueg]

I know that I am getting shriller everytime I re-iterate this, but I guess I gotta do it anyway.

Any RM/ARM has to do the following:

• Play a minimum of 2 hours per night, 6 out of 7 days per week
• Read the forums on a strict daily basis
• Set up daily OP Ords threads in their team forums
• Keep in-house issues in-house, not aired out in a public domain flame-war

I know that most poeple are sensible enough to NOT volunteer for the RM/ARM job if they cannot commit to the above requirements. Any RM/ARM that still volunteers to do the job and CANNOT do the above requirements then they are most probably doing their side more harm than good, because sooner or later the players will get restless and then the destructive infighting starts which absolutely cremates any viable CnC structure.

If you go through the past dynas on both SFC2 and SFC3 and look at the leadership for the sides that win and the leadership for the sides that lose, then you will note that the winning side leaders are hitting on all cylinders of the above requirements while the losing side are not meeting the above requirements and are rapidly descending into leadership chaos and nasty infighting.

Very Good points...

[Commander Maxillius]

Problem with EAW is it's 2 (3?) patches ago.

EAW's final patch (2.0.3.6) was in 03 I believe, so if anyone's been working on SQL for a previous patch of EAW they've been locked in a basement without connectivity for 3 years.  I wouldn't be surprised of EAW's DB worked better with SQL though, since OP took sooo much effort to get it where it is, and it's still got elements that are broken (fighters v. shuttles for example).  Last I knew EAW was mostly fixed (more so than OP) apart from the Hand of Bethke.

If anyone wants to ressurect EAW for a server I still have it.

[Dfly]

I am one who flies a lot of hex flipping but loves the PvP part.  I find overall flying the PvP is actually hurting the team camp.  Reason being is this.

1-fly PvP, take 1 hour 22 minutes, win mission, enemy out of THAT hex(but good for all others) for 1 hour max.  GET 1 HEXX FLIP POINT

2-fly vs AI, take 1 hour 22 minutes, win all missions, GET 14 HEXX FLIP POINTS


Point being, the hexx flippers will ultimately win the campaign over the PvPers.  which ever team can hex flip(proper hexes that is) the most will ultimately win. 

In all the campaigns I have been involved in so far (roughly 7), this has been the case. I realize I have not got the umpteen campaigns under my belt as many have but there is definitely a trend here.  I dont care for the disengagement rule mostly, but do agree on if it happened on a base or planet it should encompass the 7 hexes.  I am all in favor of seing SQL working as stating a PvP is worth say 5 or 10 HEXX FLIP POINTS, but until then, the hexmunchers win the war.

[Hexx]

I fail to see the need to be awarding HEXX flipping points for any reason.

[KBF-Crim]

Disengagment WORKS...without it...there is simply no point is playing when outnumbered...

I remember the days before....and playing outnumbered against smaller ships that could simply jump into the next mission on your hex was a complete moral dropper...

1 hex is fine in normal space....area of operation is fine on planets.

And I DO think PvP  played a large role in SG5...without the kills we scored...we would have been routed...

[Dizzy]

Penalty box was cool too, I thought. Kept an opulent player from hoping right back in a DN after his was just popped.

[KBF-Crim]

I fail to see the need to be awarding HEXX flipping points for any reason.

Doh".....I had to read that twice to 'Get it"

 

[Bonk]

In my opinion Skull's "The Slot" was the best compromise I have seen, it allowed non-DN players to have some fun too and an effect on the campaign and for DN players to have their disengagement rule elsewhere on the map.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I have seen it said more than once that you might as well be playing the single player game. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The singleplayer game stops when you stop playing. The Dynaverse is a "Persistent Universe" first and foremost (and damn persistent at that, lol), anyway, it keeps running even if you are not there. Your actions have an effect that "persists". I think people need to remember this. It is a strategic game, not just a test of tactical prowess (though that is important too).

[C-Los]

IMPORTANT NOTE: I have seen it said more than once that you might as well be playing the single player game. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The singleplayer game stops when you stop playing. The Dynaverse is a "Persistent Universe" first and foremost (and damn persistent at that, lol), anyway, it keeps running even if you are not there. Your actions have an effect that "persists". I think people need to remember this. It is a strategic game, not just a test of tactical prowess (though that is important too).

People of the PvP mindset have a tendency to forget this.....   

My opinion has always been...."Disengagement rule Bah Humbug !"    Make the ship costs more and losing the ship 50% and no one will be replacing a ship so easily.... Plus I think for people who want PvP to run people off with the rule is at the same time saying they don't want it... Doh !!!!

Of course you all know I've felt this way ever since it was implemented.... 

[KBF-maQmIgh]

If you want a more PVP mindset then you need to go back to the old SFC Online Dennis was running. The map is NOT controlled in the game but outside the game to arrange PVP play. For example the Klingon Commander moves a D7, D6 and 2xF5s into a hex that contains a Federation CA and 2xDDs. If the fed decides to fight or cannot withdraw due to movememnt limitations then the fight is played out by the players. This can be a scheduled fight so it is all PVP. Imagine if you will using F&E to play the strategic game and then SFB to play out the battles.

This allows near puire PVP play.

[FPF-DieHard]

People of the PvP mindset have a tendency to forget this.....   

The rules have become too PvP oriented, and we wonder why casual players loose interest.

[Hexx]

People of the PvP mindset have a tendency to forget this.....   

The rules have become too PvP oriented, and we wonder why casual players loose interest.

Perhaps
But I'd still argue far more players left the game before we started the current trend
then afterwards.

With ship prices reduced on servers to keep casual players from losing interest,
no withdrawl penalty simply means you'll actually be hurting your side
in a close fought battle if you engage in PVP.
Same thing if your side is outnumbered, you'll cost your side the game if you fight PVP's.
With the (silly) claims that hex flipping is strategic, everyone is far better off
to run 2 minute missions against the AI than engage in a 20 minute (or likely longer) duel against
an enemy player.

The disengagement rule is fine, imo there should also be VP's for forcing big ships to run away or kills
(but we know how well that goes over... )

[KBF-maQmIgh]

You know what, lets try a different apporach WHO CARES! Put up a server with a set of well posted the predefined rules. I think most players here will come running...

[el-Karnak]

el-Karnak

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