Topic: Going to pluto  (Read 10404 times)

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Offline prometheus

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Re: Going to pluto
« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2005, 05:43:16 pm »
but our payload size has increased dramatically since then

I must have missed that mission to the moon...  It must have happened in the 90's during one of my alcoholic blackouts...

I was refering to our current HLEV, much more effecient than the saturn V as well as taking heavier payloads.  and the saturn V doesn't give any delta V other than what is neccesary to get it into a parking orbit and maintain said orbit.  remind me when i get back from break to make some pictures and scan them on here i think u'll see what i'm saying then lol. 

I do see what you're saying, I'm not stupid you know...  All I'm saying is that I think a free return trajectory is the best compromise between speed and safety for a Lunar Mission...

lol, not saying you are, its just easier for me to explain w/ diagrams. ;)

Don't trouble yourself, no explanation is required...  I still have that page of maths you sent to me, and the implications of it are hardly impenetrable even with my very basic knowledge of maths...  Rocket science isn't exactly rocket science, if you'll excuse the pun, and I already have extensive data and diagram schematics relating to the Saturn V...

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not meaning to sound ungrateful, I just don't want you to get the impression I need data spoonfed to me...
« Last Edit: December 19, 2005, 06:45:28 pm by prometheus »


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Offline J. Carney

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Re: Going to pluto
« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2005, 09:28:14 pm »
You a good man, Prom... but your temper is ALMOST as bad as mine. ;D

Yeah, they should send us up in a Gemini Capsule and not let us re-enter until we've sorted ourselves out...  That could be fun... ;)

Yeah... we'd probably both come back a lot thinner... I don't think they could cram enough food in there to last us that long. ;D
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Offline Dracho

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Re: Going to pluto
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2005, 07:34:10 am »
Want to make a bet?  I'll wager than a US BUSINESS puts a person on the moon before the Chinese government does.
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline prometheus

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Re: Going to pluto
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2005, 04:02:59 pm »
Want to make a bet?  I'll wager than a US BUSINESS puts a person on the moon before the Chinese government does.

US business have barely even made it Suborbital yet...   The Chinese are well ahead of them...


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Offline Dracho

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Re: Going to pluto
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2005, 04:15:29 pm »
China is shooting for 2017.  Some western companies are shooting for 2012.  One thing that will be interesting is how China deals with the inevitable failures.  They do not do public failure well and a catastrophe like Apollo 1 could cause them to close the program down.
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline prometheus

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Re: Going to pluto
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2005, 05:37:54 pm »
China is shooting for 2017.  Some western companies are shooting for 2012.  One thing that will be interesting is how China deals with the inevitable failures.  They do not do public failure well and a catastrophe like Apollo 1 could cause them to close the program down.

I think you're underestimating them, and over estimating business...  if private spaceflight does not start to generate returns very quickly, business will lose interest...


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Offline J. Carney

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Re: Going to pluto
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2005, 11:14:55 pm »
China is shooting for 2017.  Some western companies are shooting for 2012.  One thing that will be interesting is how China deals with the inevitable failures.  They do not do public failure well and a catastrophe like Apollo 1 could cause them to close the program down.

I think you're underestimating them, and over estimating business...  if private spaceflight does not start to generate returns very quickly, business will lose interest...

Prom...

If I can save the amount it takes t get into orbit for even a few minutes, I'll pay it. My eyes keep me from being a pilot, but the rest of me is in near-perfect physical condition.


Who with the money would turn such a chance down?


Now, who would turn down the chance to WALK ON THE MOON?
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. - Earl Warron

The advantages of living in the Heart of Dixie- low cost of living, peace and quiet and a conservative majority. For some reason I think that the first two items have a lot to do with the presence of the last one.

"Flag of Alabama I salute thee. To thee I pledge my allegiance, my service, and my life."
   

Offline prometheus

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Re: Going to pluto
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2005, 05:21:34 am »
I'm not disputing that, but it is not really a commercially viable proposition at the moment, and his not likely to be by 2013... 


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Offline Dracho

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Re: Going to pluto
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2005, 08:46:23 am »
I think companies are starting to realize the long-term potential for profits in space are <VEG>  Astronomical.   ;D

Here is an interesting article on the matter:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10499995/
« Last Edit: December 22, 2005, 10:08:36 am by Dracho »
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline prometheus

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Re: Going to pluto
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2005, 10:46:47 am »
I think companies are starting to realize the long-term potential for profits in space are <VEG>  Astronomical.   ;D

Here is an interesting article on the matter:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10499995/


I've noticed that companies are very unwilling to think long term, hence our continued reliance on outmoded forms of energy conversion and our blinkered approach to climate change, however, we only have to wait seven years and it'll be proven one way or another who was right...


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Offline prometheus

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Re: Going to pluto
« Reply #50 on: January 03, 2006, 11:16:38 am »
The mission itself i could actualy do that maths for, it follows the same concepts for interplanatary mission, using a hohmann tranfer (effeciency).


I've just noticed this flipping threw this topic, and If you download the simulator here http://www.eaglelander3d.com you'll notice that the rendevouz maneuevers are not done by Hohmann transfer...  The reason for this was that operating on a Hohmann trasfer meant arriving at the orbit of the target vehicle at zero vertical velocity, which sounds good, but it means that when you arrive at the target orbit there is a lot of motion between your target vehicle and the stars in the background, making it difficult to know whether you are making the correct translational manuevers to control your vehicles approach.  The orbital approach used for rendevouz was to approach the target vehicle in such a way that it would seem to be fixed in the background, allowing the pilot to make the correct translational adjustments to match the orbits perfectly, because if the target vehicle was moving up, down, left or right, it was obvious a translational delta V had to be nulled...  This is more fuel expensive than a hohmann transfer, but considerably safer, and was used in Apollo and Gemini...


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