Topic: EXTRAORDINARY "hyperspace" engine could make interstellar space travel a reality  (Read 10947 times)

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Offline prometheus

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indeed. yet that is the current holy grail of physics to one way or another unify the rules of quantum mechanics with those of grvity in one profound equation.

And it'll happen when pigs fly, or when we invoke quasi religious Kaluza Klein based theories that magically explain away all the harsh Universal realities that we don't like...

There are no gravitophotons, black holes have proven that, and much as we would all love to think that future generations will be jaunting around the galaxy a-la the Starship Enterprise, it's just not within the realms of possibilty...


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Offline Tus-XC

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FTL travel has yet to be proven true or false yet, so how could it be outside the realms of possibilty
Rob

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Offline prometheus

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FTL travel has yet to be proven true or false yet, so how could it be outside the realms of possibilty

Because at c mass is infinite and time comes to a standstill, unless you jump into hyperdimesnions with different physical laws, whcih would most definitely be fatal...   Frankly, I think it has been proven false.  Kaluza Klein based Theories (like String Theory) and Relatvity have sounded the death knell for FTL travel...


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Offline Stormbringer

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I disagree. rather than a death knell they refined the field narrowed the possibilites; which is an aid in determining where to look for solutions.

Offline Sirgod

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I always get abit excited when I read stories like this, and the mind stars to wonder. Can you Imagine the Aurora Borialus effect on the ship, when Solar Energy hits the the Shields?  It would be something to see indeed.

Stephen
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Offline prometheus

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I disagree. rather than a death knell they refined the field narrowed the possibilites; which is an aid in determining where to look for solutions.

The trouble is they have been refined from "technically unachievable" to "Dream on puny human" a hundred years ago...


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Offline Stormbringer

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I disagree. rather than a death knell they refined the field narrowed the possibilites; which is an aid in determining where to look for solutions.

The trouble is they have been refined from "technically unachievable" to "Dream on puny human" a hundred years ago...

I don't think so. Actually al scientific refinements to theory pointed the way to reasonable lines of inquiry. they did not rule out the possibilities. they just said any working approach needs to overcome in some way the following restrictions. because of this thousands of false approaches can be eliminated. narrowing the field to those paths that current theory leaves open. So now instead of searching through thousands of futile approaches we need only sort through a handful.

Offline Tus-XC

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FTL travel has yet to be proven true or false yet, so how could it be outside the realms of possibilty

Because at c mass is infinite and time comes to a standstill, unless you jump into hyperdimesnions with different physical laws, whcih would most definitely be fatal...   Frankly, I think it has been proven false.  Kaluza Klein based Theories (like String Theory) and Relatvity have sounded the death knell for FTL travel...

And i said as of yet it hasn't been proven decisivly true or false.  This means that all routes of possibility have not been ruled out.  Until that day happens it will always be within the realms of possibility.  What you said has only ruled out one possibility, it hasn't removed them all.
Rob

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Offline prometheus

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And i said as of yet it hasn't been proven decisivly true or false.  This means that all routes of possibility have not been ruled out.  Until that day happens it will always be within the realms of possibility.  What you said has only ruled out one possibility, it hasn't removed them all.


It's convinced me to my satisfaction, and I don't believe anything easily...  True science is the orbital math that you sent me and stuff like that...  I meant to tell you by the way, using your calculations on dlownrange orbital velocity I managed to take down the Falcon to within five hundred yards of the original Palus Putredinis landing site... That, under manual control, is amazing, so if I anyone ever needs a mission controller, you know where to find the best...


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Offline prometheus

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I disagree. rather than a death knell they refined the field narrowed the possibilites; which is an aid in determining where to look for solutions.

The trouble is they have been refined from "technically unachievable" to "Dream on puny human" a hundred years ago...

I don't think so. Actually al scientific refinements to theory pointed the way to reasonable lines of inquiry. they did not rule out the possibilities. they just said any working approach needs to overcome in some way the following restrictions. because of this thousands of false approaches can be eliminated. narrowing the field to those paths that current theory leaves open. So now instead of searching through thousands of futile approaches we need only sort through a handful.

they've pointed ways to a line of enquiry that scientists may look at for fun in their spare time to take a break from serious research...


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Offline Stormbringer

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If you say so. perhaps in the future we will be saying that is why no "serious scientist" invented warp drive; it was an uncredentialed  individual with big dreams.

Offline prometheus

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If you say so. perhaps in the future we will be saying that is why no "serious scientist" invented warp drive; it was an uncredentialed  individual with big dreams.

it's a waste of time thinking about it... Humans are spacetime...  the fields, particles and quanta that we are composed of are part and parcel of space and time... Warp the spacetime around yourself to a massive degree and you collapse under your own mass and you die...  There's no point in sugar coating it... It makes great Sci Fi, but we have to accept that there are far more pressing considerations for mankind, like providiong everyone on the planet with Fresh Water...


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Offline Stormbringer

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If you say so. perhaps in the future we will be saying that is why no "serious scientist" invented warp drive; it was an uncredentialed  individual with big dreams.

it's a waste of time thinking about it... Humans are spacetime...  the fields, particles and quanta that we are composed of are part and parcel of space and time... Warp the spacetime around yourself to a massive degree and you collapse under your own mass and you die...  There's no point in sugar coating it... It makes great Sci Fi, but we have to accept that there are far more pressing considerations for mankind, like providiong everyone on the planet with Fresh Water...

You know there are solutions for blackholes that exclude that possibility. and in fact the most likely blackhole model makes the sigularity avoidable. further not all routes require massive warpings of space time.

Offline Tus-XC

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And i said as of yet it hasn't been proven decisivly true or false.  This means that all routes of possibility have not been ruled out.  Until that day happens it will always be within the realms of possibility.  What you said has only ruled out one possibility, it hasn't removed them all.


It's convinced me to my satisfaction, and I don't believe anything easily...  True science is the orbital math that you sent me and stuff like that...  I meant to tell you by the way, using your calculations on dlownrange orbital velocity I managed to take down the Falcon to within five hundred yards of the original Palus Putredinis landing site... That, under manual control, is amazing, so if I anyone ever needs a mission controller, you know where to find the best...

Though if you think about it you realize up until that point of time when the orbital maths i use were made it wasn't consider real science.  Sure there were alot of relgious things going on then to, but thats not the point, we know it today to be real science because someone dared to break the norms of what science was supposed to be and in the process opened up whole new feilds that at that point in time could not be imagined (like traveling to the moon, sending probes to mars, all thanks to kepler and other brave thinkers).  So in my pov when i see people saying its impossible, can't be done, this ain't real science i think back a few hundred years, and go o yes... this happened before and guess what, they were all wrong about what was being proposed.

O btw, glad i could help :)
Rob

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Offline prometheus

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If you say so. perhaps in the future we will be saying that is why no "serious scientist" invented warp drive; it was an uncredentialed  individual with big dreams.

it's a waste of time thinking about it... Humans are spacetime...  the fields, particles and quanta that we are composed of are part and parcel of space and time... Warp the spacetime around yourself to a massive degree and you collapse under your own mass and you die...  There's no point in sugar coating it... It makes great Sci Fi, but we have to accept that there are far more pressing considerations for mankind, like providiong everyone on the planet with Fresh Water...

You know there are solutions for blackholes that exclude that possibility. and in fact the most likely blackhole model makes the sigularity avoidable. further not all routes require massive warpings of space time.

Those black hole models may apply to a light beam or subatomic particle with zero mass, but I hardly a think a bulky spacecraft capable of supporting several men for many years would fit the bill...


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Offline prometheus

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And i said as of yet it hasn't been proven decisivly true or false.  This means that all routes of possibility have not been ruled out.  Until that day happens it will always be within the realms of possibility.  What you said has only ruled out one possibility, it hasn't removed them all.


It's convinced me to my satisfaction, and I don't believe anything easily...  True science is the orbital math that you sent me and stuff like that...  I meant to tell you by the way, using your calculations on dlownrange orbital velocity I managed to take down the Falcon to within five hundred yards of the original Palus Putredinis landing site... That, under manual control, is amazing, so if I anyone ever needs a mission controller, you know where to find the best...

Though if you think about it you realize up until that point of time when the orbital maths i use were made it wasn't consider real science.  Sure there were alot of relgious things going on then to, but thats not the point, we know it today to be real science because someone dared to break the norms of what science was supposed to be and in the process opened up whole new feilds that at that point in time could not be imagined (like traveling to the moon, sending probes to mars, all thanks to kepler and other brave thinkers).  So in my pov when i see people saying its impossible, can't be done, this ain't real science i think back a few hundred years, and go o yes... this happened before and guess what, they were all wrong about what was being proposed.

O btw, glad i could help :)

The orbital maths you used had been proven on Earth by experiment.  It didn't require the evokation of hyperdimensions to prove it...


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Offline prometheus

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If you say so. perhaps in the future we will be saying that is why no "serious scientist" invented warp drive; it was an uncredentialed  individual with big dreams.

It takes a clever man years to learn the basic mathematical principles of Kaluza Klein based theories.  Hell, I've been studying Field Theories for years as a hobby, and admittedly while I am no great mathematician, I don't even recognise half the symbols used in the Maths of these theories...  A guy tinkering in a workshop in his back yard is never going to invent a dimension hopper that allows FTL travel... 


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Offline Tus-XC

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The orbital maths you used had been proven on Earth by experiment.  It didn't require the evokation of hyperdimensions to prove it...
And yet the concept that these orbital maths put forth was far different from what the science of the day had decided.  Much of it was scoffed against until people finally started seeing that these were indeed facts.  So as i view it, when i see theories and such being put down because they seem wild and new, i just remember thats how these maths were views until they were proven to be right (you relize they were only published in a paper shortly after kepler died, so that no one could argue with him about them.  They were made by careful measurements done by brahe, a feat in itself that took years to do, and then it even more years for kepler to make his laws and publish them.  When they were made they were revolutionary thought, outside of the     realm of thought that had driven most of europe during this time period.)
Rob

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Offline Bonk

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The orbital maths you used had been proven on Earth by experiment.  It didn't require the evokation of hyperdimensions to prove it...
And yet the concept that these orbital maths put forth was far different from what the science of the day had decided.  Much of it was scoffed against until people finally started seeing that these were indeed facts.  So as i view it, when i see theories and such being put down because they seem wild and new, i just remember thats how these maths were views until they were proven to be right (you relize they were only published in a paper shortly after kepler died, so that no one could argue with him about them.  They were made by careful measurements done by brahe, a feat in itself that took years to do, and then it even more years for kepler to make his laws and publish them.  When they were made they were revolutionary thought, outside of the     realm of thought that had driven most of europe during this time period.)

That analogy is not valid. You cannot keep using it. The planets his theories apply to actually exist, they were observable in his time. You also recently made a comparison between modern cosmologies and philospohy (not science) and the flat earth concept. Again, invalid as testing the earth for flatness is a simple experiment that even prehistoric migrations could disprove.

Show me a superstring or some dark matter that we can perform experiments on. Purely hypothetical contructs will remain such. These comparisons you draw are not valid.

Real scientific theory rolls on, dealing with subjects that can be involved in real world experiments. (e.g CERN's international collider project).

I do not rule out anything as impossible, however new scientific theories must apply to reality, not fictional constructs.

Take quatum theory as an example. As improbable (pun intended) as it seems; it actually applies to real matter, stuff that can be validated by experiment. (the d orbital is a beautiful thing, the stuff of life...)

A theory that relates to hypothetical material cannot ever be validated, its a pretty safe way to guarantee continued funding for otherwise lackluster feilds of study. (Math, Philosophy, Psychology, Cosmology).

In my view there are two pure sciences. Physics and chemistry, with chemistry just being a very large subset of physics. These sciences deal with that which is real. These sciences provide results that we can actually use.

Offline Dracho

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It sounds like, deep down in your heart, you're not as much a scientist as an engineer.   :D
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