Taldrenites > Starfleet Command Models
Apollo-class USS Centaur
Scottish Andy:
Here are my supporting pictures. I have permission from the photograph-takers to display the Shaffer.
The deck layout of my 210m Centaur.
The side shot of the actual model seen on screen, displaying her standard Miranda-sized bridge.
The top shot of the actual model seen on screen, displaying her really large windows (in green to floresce properly on Green-screen). Note that they'd make perfect sense as "skylight"-style paired windows in individual quarters.
A fan-built model showing the large windows on the saucer roof.
Another fan-built model showing the large windows on the saucer roof. If these were on a standard Excelsior saucer, they'd stretch for about ten meters or so. Waaaay too large.
Three pics of another fan-built Centaur, used with permission--so don't re-use them without getting permission too! These show the "shuttlebay doors" in front of the bridge as a nav deflector, which I think looks great.
Warrior, I like your SCT construction idea. Mind if I use that in my stories? It has possibilities for the TNG era...
MP, that was my point exactly. Why, if she has standard phaser banks, does the beam come from the "3 copper balls" on the underside of the saucer as phasers? We all know TNG doesn't use Ph-3-style defensive phasers. In TNG, phasers are phasers. I've tried out your Mini_Centaur, MP and she looks great. Thank you very much for that. However, she is still a little bigger than the Mirandas I have (from Moonraker). I have noticed that your Fed Starbases are really huge! Would you be able to scrunch the Mini_Centaur down further, or is your program slightly off compared to the other modellers whose creations I have?
Are we having fun yet? ;D
ModelsPlease:
--- Quote ---MP, that was my point exactly. Why, if she has standard phaser banks, does the beam come from the "3 copper balls" on the underside of the saucer as phasers? We all know TNG doesn't use Ph-3-style defensive phasers. In TNG, phasers are phasers.
--- End quote ---
Until ST II phasers were turrets on the saucer not mega phasers on a rollbar so anything is plausible. Though seen in TNG it's a Late TMP or very early TNG design. Once again I blame this all on a lack of detail. I don't think the SFX guys payed attention to the weapon ponts on the centaur and even some of the Mirandas fire from the wrong spots :'(
--- Quote ---I've tried out your Mini_Centaur, MP and she looks great. Thank you very much for that. However, she is still a little bigger than the Mirandas I have (from Moonraker).
--- End quote ---
I used p81's for scale (dude ya need to update ships, that Miranda is ancient)
--- Quote ---I have noticed that your Fed Starbases are really huge!
--- End quote ---
Of course they are, I like being to fly even my capital ships into and through them ;D
Would you be able to scrunch the Mini_Centaur down further, or is your program slightly off compared to the other modellers whose creations I have?
Rod ONeal:
Scottish Andy, In case you aren't aware of it there's a file in the model's directory called "model.siz" that sizes the models ingame. MP can resize all he wants to, but if this file has the model a certain size it'll override his efforts.
Just my .02 on the scale debate, I know that the torp pod is too small (if assumed to be taken straight off of the Miranda) for the 381 meter length of the model, but I find it hard to accept that a shipbash of Excelsior parts would end up smaller than the similar design made from Connie parts, the Miranda, which is 243 meters. I think that given the approximate 1.5/1 scale of the Excelsior to the Connie that 381mtrs. is about right. The multiple sizes of similar major components (IE saucers) from ship to ship is just too complicated an explanation for me, sorry. Easier to resize the pod to fit the ship than resize the ship to fit the pod. I realize that it's not, but is in reality the same module transplanted. As far as that goes it's just as MP says, designers who are more concerned with budget than accuracy. I'd like to see a logical explanation that'd explain that last assumption away. lol ;)
You can find size discrepancies in the same movie for the same ship. The Klingon Bird o' Prey in ST3 is at least 3 different sizes ranging from about 50 meters in the scene where it's sinking in the bay to over 300 meters when it's hovering over the fishing trawler. It figures that they can't get the pod size correct.
Scottish Andy:
Hi all;
MP - Are you saying Moonraker's Miranda is ancient and to the wrong scale? If anything, I found Mooraker's ships to be slightly too large compared to my other models, but they're still pretty good. I got someone's "Miranda Model Pack" from Battleclinic, an they are tiny! Really nice ships, but too small. Also, compared to the Excelsior-class USS Repulse from someone else's Excelsior era fleet packs, your Mini_Centaur is the same length as the Excelsior's nacelles, which I think is about 250m.
Rod, I remember you from before when I was trying to resize MP's bases *grin*. I tried that .siz file approach, and it didn't really seem to work. I don't know if I wasn't doing it right, so could you give me idiot-proof step by step instructions on how to do it right please?
I have an e-copy of the orginal sketched size charts by Andrew Probert, and the Miranda is marked as 765ft, or 233m long. The 243m length is from the Ships of the Star Fleet's Knox and Daran classes, which are 10m longer because even though their hulls are shorter the nacelles are mounted slightly further back than they are on the Miranda.
That same chart has the Oberth at 394ft, or 120m. Unfortunately, that is too small for any reasonable deck structure in the Oberth saucer. I'm fudging that and going with a 150m Oberth.
Also, the reasons I'm having the Centaur at 210m is because I believe her Miranda components are the most credible. Her nacelles are no longer recognisable as Excelsior nacelles (too thin, wrong shape, etc). The Miranda photon pod, bridge and "roll bar" are very evident as exactly what they are. The saucer is so festooned with other parts like very long windows and bizarre phaser emitters and Constellation-style under-saucer protrusions that its credibility as an actual Excelsior saucer is degraded. I see the main section as a 2-deck, scratch-built-for-this-class saucer that happens to resemble an Excelsior saucer instead of an actual Excelsior saucer that has been shrunk to size, as that really would be daft. Look at Pedro's Shiporama in the links above. You'll see the ship doesn't look 4 times the size of a Bug ship, either.
And no, there is no logical explanation for budget and time limitations screwing up spaceship design. :D
Can either of you recommend a good Mranda to DL? I found I preferred Moonrakers to P81's and Atrahasis' ships--though this was a good 5 years ago now. Has P81 made new ones?
ModelsPlease:
--- Quote ---MP - Are you saying Moonraker's Miranda is ancient and to the wrong scale?
--- End quote ---
No, you had stated it was bigger then the Miranda you had, and I was telling ya which model I scaled from. For it's day, that model would have been the best, no doubt. Zambie Zan's Miranda Pack is the latest I can recall, might wanna check them out ;)
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