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Topic: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?  (Read 7619 times)

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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2009, 08:34:07 pm »
Quote from: NJAntman on July 05, 2009, 07:49:41 pm
Anybody with CPU experience want to recommend a good thermal paste for reseting the heatsink? Local Radioshack sells one brand only at $12 per tube but there are several computer shops nearby I'm going to try tomorrow.

Last time I did so a couple of years ago the top brand was Arctic Silver.
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Offline NJAntman

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2009, 09:15:00 am »
Quote from: Nemesis on July 05, 2009, 08:34:07 pm
Quote from: NJAntman on July 05, 2009, 07:49:41 pm
Anybody with CPU experience want to recommend a good thermal paste for reseting the heatsink? Local Radioshack sells one brand only at $12 per tube but there are several computer shops nearby I'm going to try tomorrow.

Last time I did so a couple of years ago the top brand was Arctic Silver.

OK, I'm seeing different kinds of thermal grease/paste/ceramic as well as thermal pads. Anybody use a thermal pad? Seems like that might be a more even application, and less mess, but since they're cheaper I wonder if they're inferior?

Moved the two DDR modules over to the next set of slots, figure it gives another half inch of space from the CPU. No difference in temps seen as a result.

Alrighty, just finished re-greasing with some Artic Silver. What fun, I loosened the heat-sink/fan but couldn't get it off the CPU, so I look for the CPU lever and its no where to be seen. That is when I noticed that the whole heat-sink sits on this orange bracket that seems to be an add-on to the board. Well the lever couldn't be inside the bracket, that makes no sense, or does it? So i pulled a little harder, a little more, and POP! out comes the heat-sink/fan/CPU and there is the lever - inside the bracket?! WTF? I guess I'm damn lucky that the lever jumped to the release position and I didn't break the CPU pins. Or is it supposed to work like that?

Anyway, cleaned the CPU and heat-sink, applied two rice grain size dabs of Artic Silver and put it back together.
Also took an old 60mm fan and rigged it to the open air grill about even with the CPU and DDR modules. It's at least four inches away but i figure it can't hurt to try it.

Booted into BIOS and notice a difference:  before re-greasing      after re-greasing
                                               startup              37                 33
                                          +1 minute               43                 36
                                         +2 minutes               46                 41
                                         +3 minutes               49                 40
                                         +4 minutes               59                 42
                                         +5 minutes               62                 43
                                         +6 minutes               66                 44
                                         +7 minutes               69                 45
                                         +8 minutes               73                 44
                                         +9 minutes               77                 44
                                       +10 minutes               81                 44

HWMonitor is showing Core#0 at 50C & Core#1 at 44C, so it looks like I got back 5-10C with re-greasing. I will try a virus scan later to see if it makes a necessary difference where I can let it go for the needed half hour without overheating. Then a Rootkit scan. Then a MemTest+86 so i can get a read on the DDR.

Crossing fingers.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 09:29:56 pm by NJAntman »
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Offline Javora

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2009, 04:26:40 am »
Quote from: NJAntman on July 07, 2009, 09:15:00 am

OK, I'm seeing different kinds of thermal grease/paste/ceramic as well as thermal pads. Anybody use a thermal pad? Seems like that might be a more even application, and less mess, but since they're cheaper I wonder if they're inferior?

HWMonitor is showing Core#0 at 50C & Core#1 at 44C, so it looks like I got back 5-10C with re-greasing. I will try a virus scan later to see if it makes a necessary difference where I can let it go for the needed half hour without overheating. Then a Rootkit scan. Then a MemTest+86 so i can get a read on the DDR.

Crossing fingers.

First, yes thermal pads are inferior.  They don't cool as well and they are a total pain in the @$$ to get off if you need to reseat the CPU cooler.  To my knowledge Artic Silver is still the best thermal grease.

Second, from what you are telling us it sounds like it looks like re-seating the CPU cooler did the job.  Have you tried to run the system without the 60 mm fan?  My guess is the temp won't go up much if at all.  If it does go up a lot without the extra fan then I would suggest buying a superior CPU cooler.  Your motherboard manual should have information on how to remove the CPU cooler without damaging the CPU or motherboard.  Also try putting the ram modules back in their original slots and see how much the temps rises before you're done.

I do find the 50 C temp on core #0 a little troubling but it is a AMD so I would expect it run a little hotter.  Not to mention most of the processing load is probably being handled by that core since a lot of software still doesn't take advantage of multi-core CPU.

Let us know how the software tests run I'm really curious to know how it works out.  Looks like you've done a really great job so far and more importantly you didn't have to pay someone to do it.
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Offline NJAntman

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2009, 05:43:51 pm »
OK did full scans with SpyBot S&D, SuperAntiSpyware, and then Avira, no problems.
Did a Rootkit Revealer scan, got through it and had these results:
HKLM\SECURITY\Policy\Secrets\SAC*   3/24/2007 11:52 PM   0 bytes   Key name contains embedded nulls (*)
HKLM\SECURITY\Policy\Secrets\SAI*   3/24/2007 11:52 PM   0 bytes   Key name contains embedded nulls (*)
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Cryptography\RNG\Seed   7/8/2009 5:47 PM   80 bytes   Data mismatch between Windows API and raw hive data.
HKLM\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\sptd\Cfg   4/11/2007 11:15 AM   0 bytes   Access is denied.

Good, bad, ambiguous?

Ran MemTest86+ this morning, saw it go through about 30% of 1st pass test but had to leave, when I came back this afternoon the computer was shutdown so it looks like the DDR is still a problem. Going to run that again and check on it every 15 minutes to see when it crashes out. Temps as I type Core #0 50C & Core#1 45C and TMPIN2 a balmy 37C. That right there is the biggest change, TMPIN2 used to get up to 240F just before crashing (pre re-greasing).

Ran MemTest86+ 3 times last night, each time it gets about halfway through 3 complete passes without any errors but the sytem always shuts down. I'm thinking overheating but MemTEst86+ doesn't give  temp readings so don't know for sure. Brings me back to my question and Nemisis' comment, on this system does running MemTest86+ put a load on just the RAM, or both CPU & RAM?

Have a feeling I'm going to be buying some DDR2 for peace of mind.


 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 07:55:07 am by NJAntman »
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2009, 06:13:01 pm »
Quote from: NJAntman on July 08, 2009, 05:43:51 pm
Brings me back to my question and Nemisis' comment, on this system does running MemTest86+ put a load on just the RAM, or both CPU & RAM?

Have a feeling I'm going to be buying some DDR2 for peace of mind.

I don't think that was my comment. 

An AMD chip would likely stress some CPU components as well as the memory as it integrates the memory controller and has the hypertransport links to the memory.
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Offline Capt. Mike

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2009, 08:08:12 pm »
I'm enjoying this banter, as I will be getting a bonus check soon, and hope to learn..

I've built mine and my wife's last three computers, and haven't had any problems other than the occassional hard drive crashing...

My wife does push her system, having three different browsers open with 5 to 7 sites in each one (mozilla, IE, and some other one)..6 or 7 programs running (usually solitair, mah jong and other members of that genre), word, excel, and outlook and something else..and then she asks (in the Glenn Beck wife's voice) "Why is it so slow all of a sudden"   :smackhead:   

Well, good luck Nick

Mike
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Offline Dracho

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2009, 12:43:55 am »
Well, just a thought, but what are your shutdown temps set to in the BIOS?  Are they too low?
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Offline NJAntman

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2009, 09:43:41 pm »
BIOS has "Warning Temps", which as I've never seen a warning displayed I'll take as the shutdown temps, and are set to 80C on the system and 70C on the CPU with any values between 60C - 90C being the selectable range.
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Offline Javora

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2009, 08:55:30 am »
Quote from: NJAntman on July 10, 2009, 09:43:41 pm
BIOS has "Warning Temps", which as I've never seen a warning displayed I'll take as the shutdown temps, and are set to 80C on the system and 70C on the CPU with any values between 60C - 90C being the selectable range.

Any way you can get a temp reading while memtest is running?  I haven't run memtest in ages myself.  Does Bios display the correct amount of Ram?  Some people overlook the amount of Ram that Bios can see, that's why I ask.  Have you tried running memtest with only one stick of Ram at a time?  Just because one stick of Ram is bad doesn't mean that both sticks are bad.  I'd hate to see you waste money replacing perfectly good Ram.  Have I totally annoyed you with all these questions yet??!?  I seem to be on a roll the last couple of days...   ;)
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Offline NJAntman

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2009, 11:54:48 am »
The version I have is MemTest86+ and there is no temperature display. The BIOS is showing the correct amount of RAM. Hadn't thought of running one RAM stick at a time to isolate the problem, will try that this weekend. Never get tired of questions, they lead to the best discoveries.
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Offline NJAntman

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2009, 11:02:43 pm »
Whilst on NewEgg looking at the memory slot fans Mike suggested I saw these PCI slot case coolers and figured what the heck, they're cheap and easy to install.

So now starting at the bottom of the case I have a PCI slotted TV card, an open PCI slot, then over the first PCIE (x16) is this cooler combo http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835114024 with its directional fan blowing over the next two empty PCIE (x1) slots and onto the hotspot of the SLI video card in the nest PCIE (x16) slot. Then on the other side of the SLI video card is this cooler http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835119065 which seems to be effetively sucking air down from the CPU heatsink and out the back as the Core #0 & Core #1 temps are running  5 degrees cooler. Noise ain't too bad and I can feel a lot of warm air being pushed out the riser vents of each cooler. Only drawback is things are getting crowded but I'll accept it as a $25 solution.

I'm going to run it this way and install some new memory. I'm going to hold off putting the other SLI video card back in until I can get the CoolerMaster multifan bracket for the case and load that up with four 120mm fans to keep things breezy in the case.
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Offline Javora

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2009, 01:07:18 am »
Just my two cents, from what I've seen so far my suggestion would be to save money for a new case.  Something that has good cooling a solution.  A Cool Master HAF 932 case is something I've been looking at for my next build.  Here's a picture of the case.  Just a thought.

Did you get a chance to test the Ram independently?  What is the overall temp, the CPU temp, the Ram temp, and GPU temp if you have them.
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Offline NJAntman

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2009, 07:27:11 am »
Holly Fresh Breeze Batman! THREE 230mm fans!!!

Does it come with a "Beware Prop Wash" sticker?

Alas I'm still awaiting an opportunity to test the RAM sticks independantly although I already bought 2GB of new 800Mhz DDR2 (at $26 I couldn't resist). Figure if the original RAM is still good I can offer them up to the PC spare parts thread.
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Offline Javora

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2009, 03:06:23 pm »
LOL

I'm sure you could plant one or two of those stickers on it's side if you really wanted to.  Use some really good glue though... 

Wow I didn't realize the Ram was so cheap.  The Ram coolers you are buying or bought should probably cost as much.  Speaking of which, Ram shouldn't get that hot unless the rest of the parts are getting hot as well.  That's another indicator that the case is being overwhelmed by what's inside.
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Offline Capt. Mike

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2009, 06:42:34 am »
Here ya go Nick, if you get that case, get some of these from here...

  http://www.aeroconsystems.com/misc/beforeflight.htm   


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Summum ius summa iniuria.

The more law, the less justice.

Cicero, De Officiis, I, 33

"It doesn't, and you can't, I won't, and it don't
it hasn't, it isn't, it even ain't, and it shouldn't
it couldn't"
FZ, 1974

My chops were not as fast...[but] I just leaned more on what was in my mind than what was in my chops.  I learned a long time ago that one note can go a long way if it's the right one, and it will probably whip the guy with twenty notes.
 --Les Paul

Offline marstone

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2009, 05:17:20 pm »
Quote from: Capt. Mike on August 01, 2009, 06:42:34 am
Here ya go Nick, if you get that case, get some of these from here...

  http://www.aeroconsystems.com/misc/beforeflight.htm   

lol, I use to keep one of those hanging from the rear view in my car.  I have to say, it never left the ground, so it worked.
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Offline Capt. Mike

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Re: Smoking gun... smoking memory chips?
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2009, 10:19:59 am »
Well, reviving an old subject...

I finally got some time and built a D2 system, and moved the hard drives over to the new case...and wouldn't you know, the C: drive came up with an error...so, I tried to recover with the XP disk..well..it keeps asking me for the administrator password, which of course I don't remember...

Anyone know of a way to bypass this so I don't have to reformat and reinstall..I'm old, and forget where all the friggin' disks are since the kids have moved out and we remodeled spare bedrooms into offices...

Thanks ahead of time..

Mike
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Summum ius summa iniuria.

The more law, the less justice.

Cicero, De Officiis, I, 33

"It doesn't, and you can't, I won't, and it don't
it hasn't, it isn't, it even ain't, and it shouldn't
it couldn't"
FZ, 1974

My chops were not as fast...[but] I just leaned more on what was in my mind than what was in my chops.  I learned a long time ago that one note can go a long way if it's the right one, and it will probably whip the guy with twenty notes.
 --Les Paul
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