Off Topic > Ten Forward
Captains on the bridge.
Nemesis:
--- Quote from: Dracho on April 20, 2012, 08:58:21 am ---And Kirk's communicator looks downright bulky compared to a Motorola Razor.
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So how many calls have you made to the ISS without a local cell tower?
knightstorm:
--- Quote from: Nemesis on April 22, 2012, 05:49:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: knightstorm on April 19, 2012, 08:09:56 pm ---yes. Its very possible that they didn't mention the war as that would be unnecessary to the plot of the episode.
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As everything I have ever read has the implication that the Earth-Romulan war led to the Federation it seems unlikely that it would not have been mentioned. They mentioned that the NX01 had just completed its 2nd 5 year mission (which the war would have interrupted).
--- Quote from: knightstorm on April 19, 2012, 08:09:56 pm ---What I'm saying is that the birth of the federation could be less clear cut, and depending on how you look at it the alliance could be viewed as its beginning, or as something that led to its beginning.
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Deanna and Riker directly referred to the Alliance leading to the Federation. It would have to lead to it in less than 1 year after the Alliance or the dates are wrong. Can you really believe such an important thing could be negotiated and ratified that quickly? I can't.
--- Quote from: knightstorm on April 19, 2012, 08:09:56 pm ---As for cloaks, who had them besides the Sulibans and the Romulans? Also, its very possible that they could be field testing them there.
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The number (100's if not 1000's) of mines and the 2 ships in an unoccupied frontier world seems a little much for just field testing.
The sphere builders were cloaking moon sized objects and were known to a significant number of future federation races. Then there were the race that impregnated Trip.
There were whole religions around the sphere builders there must have been millions if not billions of people who knew of them being cloaked. Many of which were future Federation races.
--- Quote from: knightstorm on April 19, 2012, 08:09:56 pm ---The future federation would have been very quick to delete any restricted data from the sulibans computers. Without that, they would have lost the ability to maintain their future tech
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And from their minds? The Suliban engineers and researchers could recreate it from memory (and the 100s perhaps 1000s of working models in their cell ships).
--- Quote from: knightstorm on April 19, 2012, 08:09:56 pm ---As for none of the TNG races having access to such tech, I have to disagree. In TNG, they used holograms to disguise observation posts. And Voyager was able to generate dummy wing men by placing holoprojectors on the hull. It wouldn't be such a strech to assume that they were easily capable of that if they felt the need. The Romulan holoship proved to be something of a dead end because the future federation races did learn to see through it fairly quickly.
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Voyager I have seen very little of so I don't know of the projected ships. I do know just how flaky the TNG holodeck was. It should have been condemned.
--- Quote from: knightstorm on April 19, 2012, 08:09:56 pm ---As for the Romulan's speed we don't know what kind of endurance it has at those speeds.
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The holoship led them quite a chase.
Also they knew warp 5 tech well enough to recognize the NX01 having it and didn't feel the need to take it when it was crippled, so presumably they had it in use already.
Which does bring up the suggestion that Archer would be given one of the new warp 7 ships. The NCC1701 was only a warp 8 ship, not much improvement in a century.
--- Quote from: knightstorm on April 19, 2012, 08:09:56 pm ---With the Klingons, don't you think a farmer shooting a Klingon Courier in the chest, and causing an interstellar incident was a disasterous first contact. Archer not only offended Duras, but the Klingon high counsel. He compounded that by escaping from Rura Pethe and getting a bounty on his head.
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If there is anything the Klingons would recognize and respect it is fighting back from an attack. They would be more likely to praise the farmer (and condemn the warrior incompetent enough to be beaten by a farmer, a descendent of Stephens perhaps), that would not have offended them. The rest was not part of the first contact but later events.
--- Quote from: knightstorm on April 19, 2012, 08:09:56 pm ---With regards to Cochrane, you said it. He was drunk. You're also assuming that Phlox and T'Paul would report the incident to their respective governments. And like I said, its also possible that they might not have identified them as the borg. As for why the ferengi would be so far away from their normal trading grounds, you need only look at the 75th rule of acquisition; the home is where the heart is, but the stars are made of latinum.
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Phlox, T'Pol, the Andorians, etc, etc.
The problem isn't just the Ferengi being so far but being so far in a relatively primitive ship but in having no one follow for centuries in their much more advanced vessels. Where one would think to go sooner or later others would as well.
Among the problems with 1st Contact are the records. Where are the copilot and engineer for the flight? All the other people there who knew that they had outside aid (even if not identified as futurians that would be an anomoly). Going back to the future with the past changed should have led to a different future UNLESS they travelled between timelines as well as time. Enterprise is clearly on that timeline. TOS and TNG are not.
Geordi as a fan of Cochranes did not know of the attack on the launch site or of outside aid.
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Yes. I do think its possible for them to not mention the war in the finale if the writers are trying to not clutter things with additional story lines which the series will not have time to cover.
As for the treaty, I'm saying that the federation could have evolved gradually, in which case it would be hard to pinpoint its beginning.
I still think the placement of the mine field and cloaked ships at that location is not beyond the bounds of field testing.
As for deleting the information from the Suliban's computers. I'm running under the assumption that the future tech was too advanced for the Suliban engineers to fully understand, and that without the computer data, they wouldn't be able to recreate it, or even service it beyond minor repairs.
As for TNG holo camouflage, there was one episode of TNG where they were observing a primative vulcanoid race, where they used a hologram to disguise their observation post as a rock face. I think it was called "who watches the watcher."
As for the endurance of Romulan ships. The speed rating of the engine is its top speed, not its cruising speed. Most of the alpha quadrant races at the time of Enterprise had ships with top speeds of warp 6, meaning they were able to go warp 6 for brief periods, but had to operate at lower speeds most of the time. The TOS Enterprise was shown attaining a top speed of Warp 9 in "The Enterprise Incident," and had a cruising speed of warp 6.
Just because the Klingon warrior was a disgrace doesn't mean that miserable gutter race would be particularly happy with the race that revealed it. Also, Klingon honor really only applies to Klingons, although those hypocrites will whine like little babies if they think their opponents are acting dishonorably.
I don't see the Ferengi being so far away from home in a primative craft as so much of a problem. If you look at real world history, you see several incidents of pre-columbian contact between Europe and the Americas before Columbus arrived in his relatively advanced carracks. These include evidence that stone age people might have been able to make it across, viking long boats, and the unconfirmed reports of Irish monks. As for first contact, the Enterprise E. removed all evidence of their intervention before they left.
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