Topic: Hand phaser energy output  (Read 9062 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tulwar

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1328
Re: Hand phaser energy output
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2015, 03:36:23 am »
Ships much smaller than aircraft carriers can do 33 knots.  The length of a ship determines how fast it can go without requiring a prohibitive amount of energy, and all these boats are very long.  The Navy will never, ever tell how fast these ships really go, but even the oil-burning Kitty Hawk could leave its escorts in its wake.

As far as the Big-E's powerplants go, I just knew it had more reactors than the newer, and it was the longest warship ever built.  Obviously, that mean it can go faster than anything else afloat, without skipping across the water.
Cannon (can' nun) n.  An istrument used to rectify national boundries.  Ambrois Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Offline Corbomite

  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2939
Re: Hand phaser energy output
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2015, 08:37:51 am »
I may be way off base here since it has been decades since I read it, but I thought that phasers were a beam of phased plasma with an electro-magnetic component that not only kept the beam coalesced, but allowed for the stun feature by working in a similar fashion to a taser.

Offline knightstorm

  • His Imperial Highness, Norton II, Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2097
Re: Hand phaser energy output
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2015, 11:31:13 am »
Ships much smaller than aircraft carriers can do 33 knots.  The length of a ship determines how fast it can go without requiring a prohibitive amount of energy, and all these boats are very long.  The Navy will never, ever tell how fast these ships really go, but even the oil-burning Kitty Hawk could leave its escorts in its wake.

As far as the Big-E's powerplants go, I just knew it had more reactors than the newer, and it was the longest warship ever built.  Obviously, that mean it can go faster than anything else afloat, without skipping across the water.

Length isn't the only factor in determining a ship's speed.  There's also beam as well as weight.  A heavier ship needs more horsepower to move.  While the navy may conceal the true maximum speed of these ships, its unlikely that they were capable of more than a few knots above their listed speeds.

Offline Tulwar

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1328
Re: Hand phaser energy output
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2015, 04:41:30 pm »
Any sailor that served on a carrier, while undergoing sea trials, will swear to you that the boat was going over 45Knots.  Then, there are people saying they can do up to 70.  I concede the point.  After reading up, not that much steam actually gets to screws, which really aren't that big, anyway.  What really blows my mind is that, the Nimitz boats aren't as fast as the Kitty-Hawk class!
Cannon (can' nun) n.  An istrument used to rectify national boundries.  Ambrois Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Offline knightstorm

  • His Imperial Highness, Norton II, Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2097
Re: Hand phaser energy output
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2015, 04:57:35 pm »
Different design priorities.  The Kittyhawks, and the Enterprise were designed for WWII style carrier battles.  The Nimitz class was designed for post war power projection.

Offline manitoba1073

  • FLEET ADMIRAL OF THE YARDS
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1119
  • Gender: Male
    • manitobashipyards
Re: Hand phaser energy output
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2015, 07:01:29 pm »
Any sailor that served on a carrier, while undergoing sea trials, will swear to you that the boat was going over 45Knots.  Then, there are people saying they can do up to 70.  I concede the point.  After reading up, not that much steam actually gets to screws, which really aren't that big, anyway.  What really blows my mind is that, the Nimitz boats aren't as fast as the Kitty-Hawk class!

 I can tell you how fast the Nimitz goes.

 They however block the speed from showing on all observation tvs at 40knts in the carrier. She will do another 25knts give or take 5 knts.



Offline Tulwar

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1328
Re: Hand phaser energy output
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2015, 11:40:46 pm »
The thing about carriers today is that they are threatened by Chinese ballistic anti-ship missiles.  This is something new to our planners.  The missile interception systems we currently opperate are hardly capable of defending against this threat.

Hypersonic ABMs are big, expensive, and almost completely ineffective, but we are starting to build anti-missile lasers.  This technology is just in its infancy, but it really is the only effective means to counter a hypersonic weapon.  Current designs use carbon dioxide lasers which produce a beam of red light.  Simply polishing the aluminum skin of the missile is a strong defense.

What needs to be done is not merely increasing the power of our lasers, but getting the wavelength shorter than visible light.  X-ray band lasers are ideal, but generating X-rays of the required power is not easily done.

Just trying to get back on subject....
Cannon (can' nun) n.  An istrument used to rectify national boundries.  Ambrois Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Offline Tulwar

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1328
Re: Hand phaser energy output
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2015, 10:51:48 am »
The really cool thing is that you can discribe both these materials, and the "Lithium Ion" in the battery of your laptop or cell phone as Lithium Hyderide.  This means you can use your nuclear fuel to hold a considderable eletrical potential, as well.  Considdering scientists are talking about improving LiH battery performance to near instantainous recharge, this fuel sounds good for holding a nuclear and chemical potential simultaneously.


This paragraph leaves you wondering where I was going.  I was about to say that the chemical battery component could be made to charge and discharge like a capacitor, and then I considdered the volatility of Lithium Hyderide.  I wouldn't want to have my hand wrapped around it should the thing overcharge the battery.  The weapon would have to take time to sense the capacity of the unit, and send excess energy elsewhere.
Cannon (can' nun) n.  An istrument used to rectify national boundries.  Ambrois Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Offline Sirgod

  • Whooot Master Cattle Baron
  • Global Moderator
  • Vice Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 27814
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hand phaser energy output
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2015, 12:54:54 pm »

Unfortunately, it's not the answer we'd like. The nuclear reactor on an aircraft carrier, for example, produces less than 200 megawatts. To melt snow in front of your car, you'd need three of those.


Each Nimitz Class boat has 2 powerplants.  Now, the Big-E had 4.  That means, it could have melted your snow, and have a powerplant left over to power the screws to keep up with you.  The oil-fired carriers could do over 45 Knots, and the Enterprise was the longest naval vessel ever built, so it had to have been even faster than the carriers still in service.  60 MPH is hardly our of the question.

I'd like to thank TanimaL for posting the pages of tech manual.

Sarium-krellide....  A lot of folks were forced to memorize all the symbols of all the elements on the periodic table in high school.  I can't remember Sarium or anthing like Krell.  For once, I can't blame Hollywood for this crap.

Finding a power source for a space gun ain't that hard.  First you can go by process of elemination of powersources we know of in the ST universe: chemical, nuclear, and matter/anti-matter.

Chemical:  Nitrocellulose based chemicals are about as powerful as you can get, so your space-gun is only going to be marginally superior to an M1911a1.  Scratch.

Matter/anti-matter:  What happens if you're weapon gets hit?  Mushroom cloud, you're whole company is vaporized.  Too dangerous.

Nuclear:  Well we have two routes, fission and fusion.  Fission produces too many dangerous and detectable by-products, so it's out.  Fusion....  It's been done before, but has anyone gone into detail?

What can you learn about nuclear fusion in a couple of hours on Wikipedia, or a lifetime of watching PBS?

You force Hydrogen nuclei together with enough energy to overcome their mutual repelling electro-magnetic force, so the nuclei come close enough for the Strong Nuclear Force to take over, they go "Boom," and you have Helium.  Successful experiments have used gigantic lasers to zap little pellets....  Not too promising, but given a few hundred years and nano-technology, this shouldn't be too hard.

The preferred fuel for fusion is Heavy Hydrogen, usually Duterium (2H), then again, scientists are talking about 3He.  This kind of Helium is harder to fuse, but gives a bigger bang.  There's a bigger version of H.  Tritium (3He.)  Given a larger nucleus, yet the same repulsive charge, it should be easier to fuse.

OK, so now we're still dealing with trying to keep a radioactive, lighter than air gas in the magazine of our small arm.  Cumbersome, but not completely unmanagable....  Just how do they do this with all the H-bombs?  Lithium-Deuteride.  Why not "Lithium Triteride?"  Yeah, the folks writing Halo thought the substance would make a better bomb, too.

On the down-side, Tritium has a half-life of only a little over 12 years, so it might be a little hot to handle, but about the right life-span for a weapon that you don't want to fall in the wrong hands.  You see, your fuel-cell could fail after reaching a concentration below 95 or 75%, depending on what your story-world fines ideal.  If it works until it falls to below 50%, then, the mathematics of the shelf-life are even easy enough for me to do!

The really cool thing is that you can discribe both these materials, and the "Lithium Ion" in the battery of your laptop or cell phone as Lithium Hyderide.  This means you can use your nuclear fuel to hold a considderable eletrical potential, as well.  Considdering scientists are talking about improving LiH battery performance to near instantainous recharge, this fuel sounds good for holding a nuclear and chemical potential simultaneously.

At this point, it all sounds so simple, somebody should have done it already.  Heck, somebody should have descibed it already.  The diagram of an "Atomic LASER Pistol" nearly draws itself.  Why nobody else has come up with this defies me.  I just attacked the problem with logic.

I will note that the tech manuals assign a Tritium power source to the Jem'Hadar weapon, but they didn't think it through.  My sci-fi weapons will have "Lithium-triteride power-cells."  I put the term "Lithium-triteride" into a search engine, thinking somebody had to have come up with it previously.  I was right, but Halo's explanation of the substace is absurd.

BTW, the physicists responcible for our first LiH bomb screwed up, because they didn't take into account that Lithium fissions in the nutron flux of detonation.  They got a much bigger "Boom" than expected.  I thought it took more energy to split smaller atoms than they would return.  Then, I just read that 4He is almost as bad as Fe for being "nuclear ash."

So much for the power of future small arms.

Awesome stuff brother. great primer also for those who may have forgot a lot of this. Hehe, did you know my masters from like 25 years ago, was in Physics? So believe me when I say, you hit the nail on the head with this post .
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline Tulwar

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1328
Re: Hand phaser energy output
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2015, 07:01:43 pm »
Thank you for the kind words Sirgod.

My original idea was for a "nuclear pistol" that fired tiny Irridium bullets, propelled by nanoscopic H-bomd instead of gunpowder.  Using a thermonuclear reaction to generate X-rays for a laser sounds a lot better.  Without having the slightest clue of the energies involved, I guess this type of laser-pistol could be as powerful as GAU-7 30mm rotary cannon, with about as many shots.  The dynamic of the impact would be different, causing more blast than penetration.  Flare shielding on contact lenses, goggles, or other protection would be advised.
Cannon (can' nun) n.  An istrument used to rectify national boundries.  Ambrois Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Offline Sirgod

  • Whooot Master Cattle Baron
  • Global Moderator
  • Vice Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 27814
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hand phaser energy output
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2015, 09:10:38 pm »
It's kinda funny you mentioned that. Just last week, me and some friends over on the other site , where brainstorming a two stage bullet, that came to me in a dream.

went on for awhile, until I found that NASA had kind of the same idea I had, but had applied it to a gun instead.

It was basically, Gunpowder hits piston, which compresses hydrogen, which propels projectile at mach 8.


Stephen
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline Tulwar

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1328
Re: Hand phaser energy output
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2015, 10:42:58 am »
Mach 8....  An M1911a1 propells a projectil at somewhere under just under Mach 1.  With 8, being a perfect cube, the diameter of a bullet carrying the same energy would be half the size in all dimentions.  That still makes for a .22 cal.  The smaller diameter would do a lot for penetration, at the cost of disturbing less tissue, even if the projectile completely atomized upon impact.  Mind you, the real life .22 Magnum is quite deadly.  For a Star Trek weapon, I'd like to see a difference of energy on an order of magnitude, not multible.

Have you noticed that newscasters keep saying "fold" when they mean "times?"
Cannon (can' nun) n.  An istrument used to rectify national boundries.  Ambrois Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary