Topic: OT Starforce's opinion on modelers (Read 7169 times)

James Formo · « **on:** September 22, 2003, 01:50:55 pm »

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But if more scratch modelers would listen up and pay attention to what people are requesting atleast 50% of the time there'd be less whiners. So many modlers do only what they want instead of what is actualy needed or wanted by the people that when even an amature quality model of some rare ship comes out, it blows you big boys off the charts. Think about it.

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That is a quote from STarforce2 at SFC3 files. Apparently us modelers are not listening to requests and are doing are own thing. What audacity we have, not being paid, but doing this as a hobby for free and were doing ships we want to do instead of the Ships SF2 needs. Also interesting comment from someone I never seen request a ship, only insist that items on it be added or changed to his liking.

In fact I have not seen a ship request in these forums for ages. So where are these people and there requests?

Oh Starforce congrats on finnaly figuring out how to spell my name.

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #1 on:** September 22, 2003, 01:59:18 pm »

Hello James,

Well,

starforce2 is only showing his complete and utter ignorance once again,
I always believed starforce2 was an ignorant pee-wit,
but this really "takes the cake"

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But if more scratch modelers would listen up and pay attention to what people are requesting atleast 50% of the time there'd be less whiners. So many modlers do only what they want instead of what is actualy needed or wanted by the people that when even an amature quality model of some rare ship comes out, it blows you big boys off the charts. Think about it.

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That is a quote from STarforce2 at SFC3 files. Apparently us modelers are not listening to requests and are doing are own thing. What audacity we have, not being paid, but doing this as a hobby for free and were doing ships we want to do instead of the Ships SF2 needs. Also interesting comment from someone I never seen request a ship, only insist that items on it be added or changed to his liking.

In fact I have not seen a ship request in these forums for ages. So where are these people and there requests?

Oh Starforce congrats on finnaly figuring out how to spell my name.

starforce2,
you are such a dim ignorant fool,
that I'm probably wasting my breath,
but perhaps this might penatrate even your thick skull,
that is if there is anything inside it,

starforce2,

All 3d modders do this for free,
We are not payed,
We do it for free,

Next,
it is up to the 3d modder to make what they want,
"its their baby",

If that has not pentrated your skull yet,
please go play "marbles on the Freeway",

Ahem,
"at rush-hour",

Ahem,
Please ...

GeneralWolfe

DestinyCalling · « **Reply #2 on:** September 22, 2003, 02:01:49 pm »

er... I thought that was kinda the point...A hobby..!! I'm not a modeller myself but if I WAS, then I'd do something I wanted to.. If it proved popular then thats a bonus...

Idiots like that should shut their grid... Just because they can't ship model themselves..... dick!!

Atrahasis · « **Reply #3 on:** September 22, 2003, 03:00:44 pm »

Starforce does have a point though. It's not just listening to what people want but also having a feel for what is needed, and what is needed is often the popular ships. If all a modeler does is the one-time wonders that are his own fanciful designs, they may or may not get used, but the most popular designs are the ones that will get Dl'd the most and survive the test of time and recieve the greatest acclaim. This should be a no-brainer.

ActiveX · « **Reply #5 on:** September 22, 2003, 03:14:17 pm »

I figure unless the modeler is being paid, then what they do should be their own...

But if you are paid, then you follow the money...

Atrahasis · « **Reply #7 on:** September 22, 2003, 04:56:13 pm »

Just totally ignore the guy, don't respond at all to him. He's the one who called me and P81 all sorts of names over at another fourm, he's got serious attitude problems. Moreover, if he's in this for the attention as it sounds like he is, then he's attracting the wrong kind of attention by ranting like that.

K, not that's he's not entitled to rant, but he does get abusive and childish, so in my opinion just totally staying away from him is best.

ActiveX · « **Reply #11 on:** September 22, 2003, 05:02:04 pm »

GW...have you ever thought to remove the fricking forest from your eye rather then worry about the splinters in ours?

atheorhaven · « **Reply #12 on:** September 22, 2003, 05:43:34 pm »

I'm going to only add to this thread to mention a few small details..

James, being a modeller (and learning mesher myself), I love to do my own thing. My favourite ships to work on are usually not even Trek..

My TARDIS, my first mesh (the X-03), Red Dwarf and Starbug... that has been the original stuff that I've either worked on, or released.

But I would like to point out that there have actually been a fair number of ship requests over the last little bit, a good number of which have ben tackled or are being worked on. Namely:

Underway (taken from my inbox here):
three upcoming TNG kitbash requests
Melak
KA luxury liner

Not underway by anyone to my knowledge:
USS typhon

requested and Released:
Vikrant and Durrett
Remora
TMP Andor

and threads with requests just from scanning the first few pages..

Another Connie Refit WIP (ATTN:AZEL!!!)
http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB11&Number=172527&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Three b5 Ship Requests from an old friend
http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB11&Number=171416&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Looking for DS9 models (yes, this one was from starforce2, but it's still a request)
http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB11&Number=171607&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Minbari Ships
http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB11&Number=171455&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

TOS fanship
http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB11&Number=95339&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

So, it's not exactly fair to say there have been no ship requests lately.

But... a lot of stuff does get released and it does seem to fall into the "Great Modelling Hole" around here. I also know this one to be true as well from personal experience. The thing I do typically is just read the posts and look for things that interest me. The damaged Connie kitbash I did is a prime example of someone's request that I tried to help with. And the resized and reworked Doomsday Machine. And the Melak (a long standing request in the community).

The thing to do is to be true to yourself here and do this for yourself. If you see a request that looks cool, undertake it. But remember, if you have a ship that you want to do that noone else has requested and you still want to do it.. that is also a request, even if only a request from self. And that is equally as valid. And you can equally be as happy with the final result... even if noone else says squat about it. You still saw your vision come to life, and that's always a good thing.

starforce2 has certainly tread on some toes here when he first arrived, but I also blame it on coming over from the BC forum enviornment (which seems more pirhanna-like and less friendly to me) and not being aware (initially) of the unspoken rules we have. And we all feel a bit defensive when our work heads over to other games because frequently the people that may be in BC, or Armada2, or other platforms may not be aware of the original author (namely us), and tend to credit the porter of the work. But he *has* been lightening up over the last four or so weeks.

Think that's about all I'll add to this. Just chill guys, and be at peace. Let's do our thing.

Don't want mackie in here doing his happy wanky dance all over the flames and carnage.

Captain Ron · « **Reply #13 on:** September 22, 2003, 05:57:53 pm »

I ran out of Pop-corn can you guys wau=it an hour before comtinuing so I can get somemore?

James Formo · « **Reply #14 on:** September 22, 2003, 05:59:07 pm »

Atheorhaven you make the most sense to me.

Atrahasis I am not biting.

Go do your TOS thing which you rock at

starforce2 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 22, 2003, 06:00:34 pm »

The Andor is out? I saw a wip a day or 2 ago and it was half finished. But that is a good thing because P81's was intended for the E&F armada mod (where I got it from) and a new one is a good idea. I forgot who's doing it. it was looking good.

starforce2 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 22, 2003, 06:53:39 pm »

seeing as how I have some what of a 6th sense I always thought of myself as a bit of a Bester myself...

Steelviper33 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 22, 2003, 10:03:40 pm »

General Wolf

WTF is your damage?!?!?
Get your foot outta your mouth.
Atrahasis made a good point (as did starforce2 and alec, mind you; and personally, to a degree I agree with them both)
Dont start up another flamewar dude, thats the main reason i left, I dont want to have to leave again.

Starforce , coming from someone who only knows how to kitbash, we dont always get replys as well, in fact quite often my work is blown over, But this is what i figure..."if your happy with it, its their loss that they dont like it"

sandman69247 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 22, 2003, 10:26:15 pm »

God bless us all!!

OK, here's how I see things...Modelers do what we do because we all love ST, and SFC. I, as an improving modeler, do ships that interest me. That's not to say that I won't do a request, as the Remora and Azels Challenger attest to. Sometimes a request won't be made or even aknowledged, because, let's face it, there aren't many of us doing this on a regular basis. Also, most of the time we have projects already planned, or RL issues. Or, as is the case with myself, we get burned out. Some of you don't realize how much work it is to make a mesh, then texture, then hp/dp, then scale correctly for the game and then test ingame. Some of my earlier stuff only took a day or two to complete, from meshing to testing and release; those were my ealier stuff. As I get better at this, instead of taking less time, it takes longer. Why? Because if you look at my earlier stuff, the textures are very basic, and with my 1st release completely done by me (the Daedalus was textured by Pataflafla) I copied and pasted parts of pics from sites to my textures. Now, I do it all in PSP7 and PS7, and if you look at my ENT.C you can definitely tell a difference. That ship took about 2 days to mesh (wanted to get it right) and almost 2 weeks to texture. And I still had posts saying change this, don't do this, yada yada yada. I mean c'mon, there are still a few critics around who aren't particularly fond of P81's models and he is by popular consensus one of the best there is. As we go along, we get better. Sometimes a request might be for a ship that the modeler doesn't feel they have progressed to. Right now, I won't even attempt doing a Sovvy until I'm more comfortable with some of the meshing and texturing skills I am still learning.

As for kitbashers, I personally have nothing against them, as long as they follow the rules and common courtesy and give credit. I never really did any bashing until recently, due in most part because I didn't feel right about tearing up someones hard work and doing something else with it. It does get a little annoying when I spend all my free time (wife gets pissed

) doing a model, release it, go to chk comments and it's on page 3 with only a few people responding or even looking while someone who made a bash has 4 pages of responses.

But, I just look at it as I'm building up a potfolio in case someone wants to offer me a job.....anyone?

As for people getting bent out of shape about spelling...when it is their name that is misspelled it's understandable. Or, when it is the best band there ever was...IT'S SPELLED BEATLES NOT beetles!!!

Everyone, just take a chill pill and enjoy all this wonderful stuff.

Mackie · « **Reply #23 on:** September 22, 2003, 11:41:58 pm »

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!

*plugs fingers in ears* LALALALALALALALALALLALAAA

ActiveX · « **Reply #24 on:** September 22, 2003, 11:43:19 pm »

*Starts using Sign Language*

DarkMatrix · « **Reply #26 on:** September 23, 2003, 03:17:46 am »

James Formo this how i see it works

normaly ships that are asked for gets lots of replys or by the top modelers p81,cleeve,andirul,Atrahasis and few others as these guys are best we got thats why they get lots of replys just works that way they do most of time what people want

to guys like us who do new designs or stuff thats not seen alot. you will not always get lots of replys just how it goes really but u find few months down the line someone will say anyone go so and so and u like hey i did that i`ll post it now for you
before you know it 20 pepole want it

as far as kitbashing go yes it can take 20mins but also take up to few hrs all down to the kitbash really ask kf on this few i done for him it take ages some times to do the also i know ducktapewonders takes weeks over his sometimes its not always a 20min job
kitbashing is a art in someways

you find not everyone will like what you do take look at my pre-tos stuff i get few replys to them(thxs to everyone who has replyed its all good in my eyes

)
its case not everyone likes tos/pre-tos some are pure tmp or tng if i see other 1701a i`ll cry (j/k)

take it lyran dreadnought i did i had alot of feedback oh her it was great help to me when needed everyone who cared about seeing pre-to lyrans was in the topic helping

just take it easy and mod and model for yourself man its best way at end of day you get great joy out of what u do and it people want it great :d

DM

Desty_Nova · « **Reply #29 on:** September 23, 2003, 06:55:27 am »

This is a little OT

General Wolfe,
Please don't interpret this as a flame or 'making fun of you'(since you're probably on the defensive), but why are all of your posts written in what appears to be the format of some sort of poem? Just curious.

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #30 on:** September 23, 2003, 07:03:40 am »

Hello Desty_Nova,

Thank you for your kind question,

Well,
I type the way I think,
when I get to the end of a line,
its where I pause, or end my thought,

Its just the way my thoughts come out,
as all,

Take care,
Agent Sloan

Desty_Nova · « **Reply #31 on:** September 23, 2003, 07:31:29 am »

Hmmm, interesting.

I_Mudd · « **Reply #33 on:** September 23, 2003, 07:37:26 am »

You mean you actually think like that? For REAL?!

I thought it was some kind of act to infuriate certain members of this forum!

I mean, come on! Who actually says "top drawer work" these days? LOL!

so quirky...

I_Mudd · « **Reply #35 on:** September 23, 2003, 07:54:25 am »

Donny,

you're the pot.

This is kettle.

You're black.

look up a few post.

dork.

I_Mudd · « **Reply #37 on:** September 23, 2003, 08:04:57 am »

LOL!

It IS true ...

Push a button and watch him go!

Atrahasis · « **Reply #38 on:** September 23, 2003, 08:07:49 am »

I might point out that it's not necesarily true that kitbashes are less popular or get blown over. Just look at my Klingon fleet, they are ALL kitbashes of Moon's original Ktinga, at times with signiifcant new parts added by me, but still they are kitbashes. But what decides if a model becomes popular or not is how well it's done and does it fill out a needed spot on the official shiplist, or any shiplist for that matter, official or personal? If the answer to that is Yes, then the model has a greater chance of becoming a "classic", at least until it's bumped off by a better version.

I_Mudd · « **Reply #40 on:** September 23, 2003, 08:25:38 am »

Y'know, I'm flattered.

Atrahasis is a great modeller and I've always admired his posts, but Don, seriously, click on my name.

I used to be here as Adrix ( I did a little Mirror Universe site about a year and a half to two years ago. ). I changed my name here because, quite frankly, I forgot my password and I changed my ISP. If you look real close you'll find that I activated this account sometime in June.

I normally just lurk around, but after about 2 years of reading your quirky posts, I had to know first hand just how much of a predictable "yap first - make sense later...maybe" guy you are. The whole process has been reveilling, as well as entertaining. My thanks for your participation.

The former lurker formerly known as Adrix.

I_Mudd.

Smiley · « **Reply #42 on:** September 23, 2003, 08:35:33 am »

At the risk of being accused of being a troll....I have to agree with I_Mudd - Don Dawson is very predictable and while I don't want to insult you Don - you really should use a bit of variety in your posts! I mean, we all know what you are going to say about something before we have even read it!

And before you say that is how you think - we all think certain things - it doesn't mean you have to write it down! And if "top-drawer" is all you think, you must have a very boring mind.

Smiley · « **Reply #44 on:** September 23, 2003, 08:50:57 am »

Why do you not like my attitude, Don?

Azel · « **Reply #46 on:** September 23, 2003, 09:09:28 am »

Gentlemen(And I am usinging this term somewhat losely...lol)

I consider all of you my colleagues and Friends(hell I admirer alot of you guys alot)
But there is No need for this... Please
This all started with my ships being converted to BC(who Cares??? If you like my stuff then great...if you don't then equally great).
Please end this thread and the otherone that Has my Hellions involved.
Please
I would think that there are better and greater projects to be done and shared with this Great community.
Anyone who knows me knows that I love everyones work and support it...I especially love Kitbashes(Hell been trying to get the kitbashers off their tails to kitbash some of my stuff

)they bring in a fresh perspective on a design's configuation that some one had never thought of before.

Now I am a realist...and thus donot expect (in my right state of mind that is

)everyone to get along as brothers..but we can be at least civil towards each other

So lets close this mockery of a thread and lets get down to some new and fresh ideas.

Thanks guys

Captain KoraH · « **Reply #49 on:** September 23, 2003, 10:19:46 am »

I have only one thing to say:

I have very very rarely seen ANY requests for anything. I dunno what Starforce2 is talking about, because as far as I knew all the nice SFC fans are happy to get anything new and have never placed demands on the modeling community to produce certain ships over others.

I_Mudd · « **Reply #50 on:** September 23, 2003, 10:29:30 am »

I'll be darned.

Don hit it square on the nose, but probably doesn't realize it.

"But that is just my opinion,
and what should it matter to you?"

This tiresome thread ( which I may be party to it's "tiresomness", I'll admit. ) was initially created over someones OPINION.
Why does any of this thread matter?

I_Mudd.

DookeyKing · « **Reply #52 on:** September 23, 2003, 10:53:41 am »

First of all, I've been around these forums since before EAW came out(my post count is meaningless). With that said, In the years that I've been around here I've seen Mr. Dawson personally attack damn near every modeller in the joint at one time or another (Atrahasis and P81 jump immediately to mind). I would guess the reason behind these attacks to be jealousy. Those who receive acclaim from (apparently) any of the ST modding communities are open game for him. I mean for petes sake: what kind of person would call Smiley arrogant. I've never seen him as anything other than a friendly helpful asset to this community. So, MR. Dawson, if by arrogant you mean Skillful or Successful, then Yes Smiley is one arrogant SOB. Otherwise you are showing your true dimentia. Do this community a favor and wander off.

Thank You.
Scott

James Formo · « **Reply #54 on:** September 23, 2003, 11:28:36 am »

In a way I am sorry I started this thread, but I believe sometimes just laying it all out so to speak can help clear the air. I am impressed with how Starforce2 has kept his cool. Kinda wondered what he was about for a bit, but he seems on the up and up.

Do'nt feel like we need to rehash the enitre history of the forum over the last couple of years though.

btw chack out my new avatar. hehe I think I get back to modding now

Wow this thread has a life of its own

NannerSlug · « **Reply #55 on:** September 23, 2003, 11:56:40 am »

guys.. please keep things civil. discuss issues, not people. i know personally that each of you are good guys.. please look at each other in a positive light to what they bring to the community - not what they negatives they do.

we have enough negativism going through the world right now - the last place should be here and now where we enjoy spending our free time.

thanks.

Reverend · « **Reply #56 on:** September 23, 2003, 12:57:29 pm »

exactly what my Azel and Nannerslug have said... this is the only forum I ever visit, as I get tired of poeple in general from, working in the church... lot of fibbers there.
I have always enjoyed everyone's great works and interesting opinions... I have been trying so hard to get attention and make friends here, and then I feel another collapse like in this area's history is coming; maybe you guys just need to re-understand there are personal spaces that differ in width amongst us.... I require very little, while Smiley needs a lot more personal space form my own experience... some people are just touchier than others. It's not a character flaw, really, its just how people are.
Next time someone gets fussy or irritable, find out what triggered it, and either amend for it, or go around it and keep going in a slightly different direction.

Chris Jones · « **Reply #59 on:** September 23, 2003, 06:27:15 pm »

DON -

ENOUGH ALREADY.

I frequent the BC Forums, and I find it quite peaceful. I also am finding new found respect, largely due to to Starforce, for SFC conversions to BC. I see mentions of SFC in the comments of various downloads on BC Files. Now more than ever the two games, BC and SFC3, have mutual respect for each other.

I would ask that you calm down and let this thread die.

Starforce's opinions on model requests has some merit. If i was a modeler I would take requests into consideration, but I would concentrate on what I liked to do as well. It's a mixed bag. Atra is the TOS king, where P81 is the TMP and TNG King, and his first love, IIRC, is FASA. Modelers will make what they like, generally.

On another note, Since I play BC a lot now and am still doing systems for it, I can tell you that Starforce does a top notch job on the hardpoints on any ship he works on. The VVorath collection, as an example.

I liked your Klink Kitbashes, by the way. I'd like to see them in BC.

Your friend,

Chris

Chris Jones · « **Reply #60 on:** September 23, 2003, 06:45:25 pm »

and consider deleting that other thread..

Please e-mail me with your feelings on this whole thing. I have some things to tell you, but not here.

Chris

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Topic: OT Starforce's opinion on modelers (Read 7169 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

James Formo

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Topic: OT Starforce's opinion on modelers (Read 7169 times)

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