Topic: What's wrong with Stock V531 ...???  (Read 6185 times)

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Offline AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

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What's wrong with Stock V531 ...???
« on: July 09, 2004, 11:13:45 am »
... Lots.

Weaponsitems.gf for one.

*Note the "health" items, which ThePelican and Unity modders have proven to be near worthless under 40 ratings. This leaves races other than Borg virtually shooting blanks.

This information presented is note source code, but simple common settings in every game, so its presentation is perfectly OK.

Borg remain on the UBER scale for health, like they have since the game was made -- especially when compared with other races for equal class weapons.

And you wonder why no one flies Borg in GameSpy or why most other pilots don't allow matches with Borg?

The Klingon poloron torpedo is FAR too low in health rating to be effective in V531 -- this was proven by ThePelican, who raised the heath rating and the accuracy.

1.) Officer deaths -- extreme. Stock officers -- even legend category -- die far too easily in V531.

2.) Critical hits -- extreme.

3.) Shields have too much weight and provide almost no protection, rendering them virtually worthless, especially in GSA.

4.) Weapons can be fired at "green alert."

=========

Name = "WeaponItems"
//Energy = NomimalCharge  Damage is damage at nominal charge//

//Federation Primary Weapons//

[PrimaryItems\PHASER IXS]
Description = "PHASER IXS"
Cost = 550
Mass = 50
Health = 15
Energy = 2.0
Damage = 4.0
Race = "F"

[PrimaryItems\PHASER IXF]
Description = "PHASER IXF"
Cost = 700
Mass = 100
Health = 20
Energy = 2.0
Damage = 3.0
Race = "F"

[PrimaryItems\PHASER XS]
Description = "PHASER XS"
Cost = 900
Mass = 150
Health = 25
Energy = 4.0
Damage = 6.0
Race = "F"

[PrimaryItems\PHASER XF]
Description = "PHASER XF"
Cost = 1250
Mass = 200
Health = 30
Energy = 4.0
Damage = 5.0
Race = "F"

[PrimaryItems\PHASER XIS]
Description = "PHASER XIS"
Cost = 1300
Mass = 250
Health = 35
Energy = 8.0
Damage = 8.0
Race = "F"

[PrimaryItems\PHASER XIF]
Description = "PHASER XIF"
Cost = 1600
Mass = 300
Health = 40
Energy = 8.0
Damage = 6.0
Race = "F"

[PrimaryItems\PHASER XIIS]
Description = "PHASER XIIS"
Cost = 1650
Mass = 350
Health = 45
Energy = 10.0
Damage = 10.0
Race = "F"

[PrimaryItems\PHASER XIIF]
Description = "PHASER XIIF"
Cost = 1900
Mass = 400
Health = 50
Energy = 10.0
Damage = 7.0
Race = "F"

[PrimaryItems\PHASER XIIIS]
Description = "PHASER XIIIS"
Cost = 1950
Mass = 450
Health = 55
Energy = 12.0
Damage = 12.0
Race = "F"
UnavailableForRefit = 1

[PrimaryItems\PHASER XIIIF]
Description = "PHASER XIIIF"
Cost = 3000
Mass = 500
Health = 60
Energy = 12.0
Damage = 11.0
Race = "F"
UnavailableForRefit = 1

[PrimaryItems\PULSE PHASER]
Description = "PULSE PHASER"
Cost = 1250
Mass = 275
Health = 30
Energy = 6.0
Damage = 8.0
Race = "F"


//Klingon Primary Weapons//

[PrimaryItems\DISRUPTOR I]
Description = "DISRUPTOR I"
Cost = 650
Mass = 50
Health = 10
Energy = 2.0
Damage = 4.0
Race = "K"

[PrimaryItems\DISRUPTOR IF]
Description = "DISRUPTOR IF"
Cost = 825
Mass = 100
Health = 15
Energy = 2.0
Damage = 3.0
Race = "K"

[PrimaryItems\DISRUPTOR II]
Description = "DISRUPTOR II"
Cost = 925
Mass = 150
Health = 20
Energy = 4.0
Damage = 6.0
Race = "K"

[PrimaryItems\DISRUPTOR IIF]
Description = "DISRUPTOR IIF"
Cost = 1300
Mass = 200
Health = 25
Energy = 4.0
Damage = 5.0
Race = "K"

[PrimaryItems\DISRUPTOR III]
Description = "DISRUPTOR III"
Cost = 1350
Mass = 250
Health = 30
Energy = 8.0
Damage = 8.0
Race = "K"

[PrimaryItems\DISRUPTOR IIIF]
Description = "DISRUPTOR IIIF"
Cost = 1600
Mass = 300
Health = 35
Energy = 8.0
Damage = 6.0
Race = "K"

[PrimaryItems\DISRUPTOR IV]
Description = "DISRUPTOR IV"
Cost = 1650
Mass = 350
Health = 40
Energy = 10.0
Damage = 10.0
Race = "K"

[PrimaryItems\DISRUPTOR IVF]
Description = "DISRUPTOR IVF"
Cost = 1900
Mass = 400
Health = 45
Energy = 10.0
Damage = 7.0
Race = "K"

[PrimaryItems\DISRUPTOR V]
Description = "DISRUPTOR V"
Cost = 1950
Mass = 450
Health = 50
Energy = 12.0
Damage = 12.0
Race = "K"
UnavailableForRefit = 1

[PrimaryItems\DISRUPTOR VF]
Description = "DISRUPTOR VF"
Cost = 3000
Mass = 500
Health = 55
Energy = 12.0
Damage = 11.0
Race = "K"
UnavailableForRefit = 1

//Romulan Primary Weapons//

[PrimaryItems\R-DISRUPTOR I]
Description = "R-DISRPTR I"
Cost = 700
Mass = 50
Health = 10
Energy = 3.0
Damage = 5.0
Race = "R"

[PrimaryItems\R-DISRUPTOR IF]
Description = "R-DISRPTR IF"
Cost = 850
Mass = 100
Health = 15
Energy = 3.0
Damage = 4.0
Race = "R"

[PrimaryItems\R-DISRUPTOR II]
Description = "R-DISRPTR II"
Cost = 1025
Mass = 150
Health = 20
Energy = 6.0
Damage = 8.0
Race = "R"

[PrimaryItems\R-DISRUPTOR IIF]
Description = "R-DISRPTR IIF"
Cost = 1175
Mass = 200
Health = 25
Energy = 6.0
Damage = 6.0
Race = "R"

[PrimaryItems\R-DISRUPTOR III]
Description = "R-DISRPTR III"
Cost = 1300
Mass = 250
Health = 30
Energy = 9.0
Damage = 10.0
Race = "R"

[PrimaryItems\R-DISRUPTOR IIIF]
Description = "R-DISRPTR IIIF"
Cost = 1450
Mass = 300
Health = 35
Energy = 9.0
Damage = 7.0
Race = "R"

[PrimaryItems\R-DISRUPTOR IV]
Description = "R-DISRPTR IV"
Cost = 1600
Mass = 350
Health = 40
Energy = 12.0
Damage = 12.0
Race = "R"

[PrimaryItems\R-DISRUPTOR IVF]
Description = "R-DISRPTR IVF"
Cost = 1850
Mass = 400
Health = 45
Energy = 12.0
Damage = 9.0
Race = "R"

[PrimaryItems\R-DISRUPTOR V]
Description = "R-DISRPTR V"
Cost = 1950
Mass = 450
Health = 50
Energy = 15.0
Damage = 14.0
Race = "R"
UnavailableForRefit = 1

[PrimaryItems\R-DISRUPTOR VF]
Description = "R-DISRPTR VF"
Cost = 3000
Mass = 500
Health = 55
Energy = 15.0
Damage = 14.0
Race = "R"
UnavailableForRefit = 1

//Borg Primary Weapons//

[PrimaryItems\LIGHT CUTTING BEAM]
Description = "LIT CUT BEAM"
Cost = 725
Mass = 150
Health = 50
Energy = 3.0
Damage = 6.0
Race = "B"

[PrimaryItems\LIGHT CUTTING BEAM-F]
Description = "LIT CUT BEAM-F"
Cost = 975
Mass = 200
Health = 60
Energy = 3.0
Damage = 5.0
Race = "B"

[PrimaryItems\MEDIUM CUTTING BEAM]
Description = "MED CUT BEAM"
Cost = 1075
Mass = 250
Health = 70
Energy = 6.0
Damage = 8.0
Race = "B"

[PrimaryItems\MEDIUM CUTTING BEAM-F]
Description = "MED CUT BEAM-F"
Cost = 1300
Mass = 300
Health = 80
Energy = 6.0
Damage = 6.0
Race = "B"

[PrimaryItems\HEAVY CUTTING BEAM]
Description = "HVY CUT BEAM"
Cost = 1600
Mass = 350
Health = 90
Energy = 12.0
Damage = 12.0
Race = "B"

[PrimaryItems\HEAVY CUTTING BEAM-F]
Description = "HVY CUT BEAM-F"
Cost = 2400
Mass = 400
Health = 100
Energy = 12.0
Damage = 10.0
Race = "B"



[PrimaryItems\BASE CUTTING BEAM]
Description = "BASE CUT BEAM"
Cost = 3000
Mass = 450
Health = 110
Energy = 16.0
Damage = 14.0
Race = "B"
UnavailableForRefit = 1

[PrimaryItems\BASE CUTTING BEAM-F]
Description = "BASE CUT BEAMF"
Cost = 4500
Mass = 500
Health = 120
Energy = 16.0
Damage = 12.0
Race = "B"
UnavailableForRefit = 1

//Federation Heavy Weapons//

[HeavyItems\PHOTON TORPEDO]
Description = "PHOTON TORP"
Cost = 1000
Mass = 200
Health = 25
Energy = 8.0
Damage = 9.0
Race = "F"

[HeavyItems\QUANTUM TORPEDO]
Description = "QUANTUM TORP"
Cost = 1500
Mass = 300
Health = 40
Energy = 10.0
Damage = 13.0
Race = "F"

//Klingon Heavy Weapons//
[HeavyItems\K-PHOTON TORPEDO]
Description = "K-PHOTON TORP"
Cost = 900
Mass = 200
Health = 20
Energy = 6.0
Damage = 6.0
Race = "K"

[HeavyItems\POLARON TORPEDO]
Description = "POLARON TORP"
Cost = 2200
Mass = 300
Health = 35
Energy = 9.0
Damage = 12.0
Race = "K"

[HeavyItems\ION CANNON]
Description = "ION CANNON"
Cost = 1600
Mass = 250
Health = 30
Energy = 8.0
Damage = 14.0
Race = "K"

//Romulan Heavy Weapons//
[HeavyItems\LIGHT PLASMA TORPEDO]
Description = "LT PLASMA TORP"
Cost = 800
Mass = 200
Health = 25
Energy = 7.0
Damage = 11.0
Race = "R"

[HeavyItems\MEDIUM PLASMA TORPEDO]
Description = "MD PLASMA TORP"
Cost = 1200
Mass = 300
Health = 35
Energy = 10.0
Damage = 15.0
Race = "R"

[HeavyItems\HEAVY PLASMA TORPEDO]
Description = "HV PLASMA TORP"
Cost = 1600
Mass = 400
Health = 45
Energy = 16.0
Damage = 20.0
Race = "R"

[HeavyItems\MYOTRONIC BEAM]
Description = "MYOTRONIC BEAM"
Cost = 2150
Mass = 200
Health = 30
Energy = 8.0
Damage = 8.0
Race = "R"

//Borg Heavy Weapons//

[HeavyItems\GRAVIMETRIC TORPEDO]
Description = "GRAV TORPEDO"
Cost = 1300
Mass = 200
Health = 70
Energy =8.0
Damage = 10.0
Race = "B"

[HeavyItems\SHIELD INVERSION BEAM]
Description = "SHIELD INVERT"
Cost = 1800
Mass = 250
Health = 80
Energy = 10.0
Damage = 12.0
Race = "B"

//Universal Heavy Weapons//

[HeavyItems\TACHYON PULSE]   
Description = "TACHYON PULSE"
Cost = 2450
Mass = 250
Health = 40
Energy = 8.0
Damage = 6.0
Race = "BFKR"



[MineItems\STANDARD MINELAYER]
Description = "STD MINELAYER"
Cost = 1000
Mass = 150
Health = 35
Energy = 1.0
Damage = 9.0
Race = "BFKR"
UnavailableForRefit = 1

[MineItems\ANTIMATTER MINELAYER]
Description = "ANTI MINELAYER"
Cost = 1500
Mass = 200
Health = 35
Energy = 1.0
Damage = 15.0
Race = "BFKR"


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Offline Lepton

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Re: What's wrong with Stock V531 ...???
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2004, 03:19:23 am »
What do these health ratings do and how is it that they could effect the weapon's damage they are associated with?  Is there a link to some evidence that Pelican presented on this issue?  Just curious.


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Offline AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

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Re: What's wrong with Stock V531 ...???
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2004, 03:23:51 am »
What do these health ratings do and how is it that they could effect the weapon's damage they are associated with?  Is there a link to some evidence that Pelican presented on this issue?  Just curious.

Yes. I'll link this to Pelican. We also successfully proved this on Unity.

It doesn't actually affect damage, but hit rate -- meaning accuracy, especially under damage.

There is some stuff in the Yahoo admins group I'll dig out. Gimmie a few.

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Offline The Pelican

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Re: What's wrong with Stock V531 ...???
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2004, 09:25:45 am »
Okay, Health does not directly affect accuracy, what it affects is the condition of the object in question. I believe the game has preset values at which it considers a weapon to be damaged. It should be using percentages, but it isn't. Essentially, if you set the health of a weapon BELOW it's default value, the game will treat it as a damaged weapon - it will be less accurate, and may even do less damage (never tested that part). As far as I know, increasing the health beyond the starting level has very little effect, although that may not be true. The most common error modders make is to bring the health of the Gravimetric Torpedo down to the level of the other weapons - which instantly makes it far less accurate than it should be, as it's default health is 70 and most of the others have between 35-50.

As far as I can tell, there's no point going above 80, except for the Borg Primaries.

Offline AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

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Re: What's wrong with Stock V531 ...???
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2004, 09:09:16 pm »
Okay, Health does not directly affect accuracy, what it affects is the condition of the object in question. I believe the game has preset values at which it considers a weapon to be damaged. It should be using percentages, but it isn't. Essentially, if you set the health of a weapon BELOW it's default value, the game will treat it as a damaged weapon - it will be less accurate, and may even do less damage (never tested that part). As far as I know, increasing the health beyond the starting level has very little effect, although that may not be true. The most common error modders make is to bring the health of the Gravimetric Torpedo down to the level of the other weapons - which instantly makes it far less accurate than it should be, as it's default health is 70 and most of the others have between 35-50.

As far as I can tell, there's no point going above 80, except for the Borg Primaries.

So why wasn't this done in V531? Is it too late to fix it?
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: What's wrong with Stock V531 ...???
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2004, 10:29:57 pm »
Okay, Health does not directly affect accuracy, what it affects is the condition of the object in question. I believe the game has preset values at which it considers a weapon to be damaged. It should be using percentages, but it isn't. Essentially, if you set the health of a weapon BELOW it's default value, the game will treat it as a damaged weapon - it will be less accurate, and may even do less damage (never tested that part). As far as I know, increasing the health beyond the starting level has very little effect, although that may not be true. The most common error modders make is to bring the health of the Gravimetric Torpedo down to the level of the other weapons - which instantly makes it far less accurate than it should be, as it's default health is 70 and most of the others have between 35-50.

As far as I can tell, there's no point going above 80, except for the Borg Primaries.

So why wasn't this done in V531? Is it too late to fix it?

I thought this was Still being Debated and with 534, who the Hell knows anymore.

Stephen
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Offline AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

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Re: What's wrong with Stock V531 ...???
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2004, 11:10:43 am »
Okay, Health does not directly affect accuracy, what it affects is the condition of the object in question. I believe the game has preset values at which it considers a weapon to be damaged. It should be using percentages, but it isn't. Essentially, if you set the health of a weapon BELOW it's default value, the game will treat it as a damaged weapon - it will be less accurate, and may even do less damage (never tested that part). As far as I know, increasing the health beyond the starting level has very little effect, although that may not be true. The most common error modders make is to bring the health of the Gravimetric Torpedo down to the level of the other weapons - which instantly makes it far less accurate than it should be, as it's default health is 70 and most of the others have between 35-50.

As far as I can tell, there's no point going above 80, except for the Borg Primaries.

So why wasn't this done in V531? Is it too late to fix it?

I thought this was Still being Debated and with 534, who the Hell knows anymore.

Stephen

I am referring to V531 and did NOT mention other build #'s.

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Offline Sirgod

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Re: What's wrong with Stock V531 ...???
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2004, 11:23:16 am »
I understand that. Ver. 5.34 was also just released today.

Stephen
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Re: What's wrong with Stock V531 ...???
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2004, 11:25:00 am »
I understand that. Ver. 5.34 was also just released today.

Stephen

Is that official? I didn't see Pesty's post anywhere.
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Re: What's wrong with Stock V531 ...???
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2004, 12:48:58 pm »
Yes v534 is official and Taldren has released it as its last present to the SFC3 community. Many thanks to Ann and Ken Yeast at Taldren along with Dave Ferrell and all his hard work to get this done for us.
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