Topic: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made  (Read 27572 times)

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Offline Rod ONeal

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #140 on: July 31, 2004, 04:07:10 am »
OK, F-BCF. :rofl: Are you really saying that you don't know where Federation plasma tech comes from in SFB? (Please, don't try and say SFC not SFB. If you take SFB out of SFC you'd be looking at your desktop.) Because, if you don't, you need to do as I recommended and check your reference materials. We are not here to educate the unwilling.
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Offline AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #141 on: July 31, 2004, 04:07:48 am »
BCG, BFG -- already edited.

Call it the BFD!

Where did the plasma come from?

You sit here and make it a point back on page 2 somewhere, skirt the answer, talk poor Age into a circle (thanks Age for fixing that) ... and then refuse to get real!

POINT IS NONE OF THIS MATTERS!!

WE ARE A COMMUNITY OF PILOTS WHO PLAY THE TREK SERIES OF GAMES -- AND THE ATTITUDES FROM THE TYPICAL OP/EAW (not all, cuz Mog is one fo the few who doesn't generalize) PILOT FRANKLY SUCKS AS IT APPLIES TO SFC3.

THIS IS A "COMMUNITY" BOARD!

Gah!

We don't even want you to fly SFC3. FBF is right ... two mindsets. Something happened to that head of yours Cleavan ...

Go back to Nanner's original post. Read it again, and get back OTT.

<S>

Sorry what point did I make on page 2. As I said I'm not going to make any canon arguements because I don't follow that line of thinking. But if you point me at the post I made which has something to do with BFG's or whatever cannon (note spelling) is bothering you then I will be most pleased to explain what I said.

**sigh*

While making your point about SFC3 angular velocity and my point about -shift and +shift being similar.

The issue is the attitude towards the game ...

Bottom line: You leave US alone on SFC3 and don't puke on our game (spit on keyboards or anything else) and we will respect your rights to hate our guts and knock the hell out of a good game.

SFC3 -- for all its inherant bugs and imbalances -- is a more complex game than EAW/OP ever dreamed of being. And please, do as Nanner suggested, get one of the mods out there and play for yourself.

And IGNORE AV. I will see if it is a source code issue and can be zeroed out in the meantime. If there is a way to zero out AV just to make Cleavan happy, I am going to do it just cuz you are so fun to debate with.

<S>
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Offline Cleaven

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #142 on: July 31, 2004, 04:09:59 am »
Ok, now I'm confused, I agree, whether the BCF has plasma doesn't matter to the topic on hand. So what was the point of bringing it up?

There is no point. By the time Cleavan talks the thread into a circle and Likker gets involved, then Age, me and Rod -- all reality is lost.

I suggest we all go back and read UncleNanner's original post.

<S>

Hang on a mo, do you mean this statement of mine?

"I understand there are a few obstacles in the road of the OP source code, but nothing insurmountable. As long as those responsible for the IP express a desire to negotiate those abstacles and make it available then I am very optimistic. Plasma bolts and G-racks please.

Oh dear I'm spilling my tea again. If this is what you mean, then you really crack me up. That is just so funny. Talk about Chinese Whispers.

Of course if it's something else I said just show me and I will explain it too.


Not sure I can be bothered, but as you are the Doc, can you run an AI standard patrol in 2 minutes in a KRC? If so, there is no problem and I am utterly wrong. If you cannot, then the KRC is a worse ship for AI missions than ones I know can.

Offline Cleaven

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #143 on: July 31, 2004, 04:13:32 am »
BCG, BFG -- already edited.

Call it the BFD!

Where did the plasma come from?

You sit here and make it a point back on page 2 somewhere, skirt the answer, talk poor Age into a circle (thanks Age for fixing that) ... and then refuse to get real!

POINT IS NONE OF THIS MATTERS!!

WE ARE A COMMUNITY OF PILOTS WHO PLAY THE TREK SERIES OF GAMES -- AND THE ATTITUDES FROM THE TYPICAL OP/EAW (not all, cuz Mog is one fo the few who doesn't generalize) PILOT FRANKLY SUCKS AS IT APPLIES TO SFC3.

THIS IS A "COMMUNITY" BOARD!

Gah!

We don't even want you to fly SFC3. FBF is right ... two mindsets. Something happened to that head of yours Cleavan ...

Go back to Nanner's original post. Read it again, and get back OTT.

<S>

Sorry what point did I make on page 2. As I said I'm not going to make any canon arguements because I don't follow that line of thinking. But if you point me at the post I made which has something to do with BFG's or whatever cannon (note spelling) is bothering you then I will be most pleased to explain what I said.

**sigh*

While making your point about SFC3 angular velocity and my point about -shift and +shift being similar.

The issue is the attitude towards the game ...

Bottom line: You leave US alone on SFC3 and don't puke on our game (spit on keyboards or anything else) and we will respect your rights to hate our guts and knock the hell out of a good game.

SFC3 -- for all its inherant bugs and imbalances -- is a more complex game than EAW/OP ever dreamed of being. And please, do as Nanner suggested, get one of the mods out there and play for yourself.

And IGNORE AV. I will see if it is a source code issue and can be zeroed out in the meantime. If there is a way to zero out AV just to make Cleavan happy, I am going to do it just cuz you are so fun to debate with.

<S>


Ahh okay that will be where I said this:-

"So you've given up on the idea of OP having AV effects. Very commendable. I don't know why you had to say it in the first place.

And the attack shifts in OP have a very different effect in the game when compared to the angular velocity modifier seen in SFC:TNG. One leads to a game of Snoopy Vs The Red Baron, and the other leads to a different set of tactics more appropriate to large ships in space. Just take out the AV, force it to zero permanently and you will get rid of the WW1 fighter sim where angular velocity is a targetting factor, and come back into the realm of starships. "



Nothing I can see about cannon (note spelling) or BFG's here.

Oh and sorry about the previous post but it was the only place I could see where I made a reference to plasma.

Not sure I can be bothered, but as you are the Doc, can you run an AI standard patrol in 2 minutes in a KRC? If so, there is no problem and I am utterly wrong. If you cannot, then the KRC is a worse ship for AI missions than ones I know can.

Offline Rod ONeal

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #144 on: July 31, 2004, 04:15:42 am »


Bottom line: You leave US alone on SFC3 and don't puke on our game (spit on keyboards or anything else) and we will respect your rights to hate our guts and knock the hell out of a good game.

<S>


SFC2ers don't hate SFC3ers. It's not personal as you would like to make it seem. We just don't want to play SFC3. Sorry if that makes you feel insecure somehow.

PS. Good night. I have to get up for work in a few hrs. Take care all.
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Offline AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #145 on: July 31, 2004, 04:17:53 am »
Wow, I leave for a while, and in the morning, this place is exploding and devolving into another war of words!

Who was it who said...

Can't we...all...just get along...

It was Rodney King, Dashey.

Answer to his question: NO!

The community is much like the freeway in So. Cali. There will always be someone to flip off.

Quote
SFC:TNG. One leads to a game of Snoopy Vs The Red Baron,

Gah! Snoopy. I work with Unity modders to bring EAW/OP ships to attract OP'ers -- make VC's and not scan wars-based garbage -- to have them refer to this as Snoopy vs. Red Baron!
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Offline Age

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #146 on: July 31, 2004, 04:21:09 am »
   Plasma bolts  I don't understand them :banghead:There is one thing to AV is put a piece of tape over it on your screen.That solves that.

Offline Cleaven

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #147 on: July 31, 2004, 04:28:14 am »
Wow, I leave for a while, and in the morning, this place is exploding and devolving into another war of words!

Who was it who said...

Can't we...all...just get along...

It was Rodney King, Dashey.

Answer to his question: NO!

The community is much like the freeway in So. Cali. There will always be someone to flip off.

Quote
SFC:TNG. One leads to a game of Snoopy Vs The Red Baron,

Gah! Snoopy. I work with Unity modders to bring EAW/OP ships to attract OP'ers -- make VC's and not scan wars-based garbage -- to have them refer to this as Snoopy vs. Red Baron!

So you've finally started reading the posts? Well I suppose that explains a few things.

Not sure I can be bothered, but as you are the Doc, can you run an AI standard patrol in 2 minutes in a KRC? If so, there is no problem and I am utterly wrong. If you cannot, then the KRC is a worse ship for AI missions than ones I know can.

Offline FPF-Jem

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #148 on: July 31, 2004, 04:29:22 am »
Quote
This is now TNG you are talking about.How come the Rekellians in the SFC3 don't have them?
Quote

It may not have been the Rekellians, like I said I wasn't totally sure, however even if it was, just because something is cannon doesn't mean it automatically makes it into the game, after all fighters are cannon and aren't seen in SFC3.

As far as Nanner's original post goes, from my point of view, some in the SFC3 group disparage OP. Admittedly I am biased because I like OP but referring to ALL OP players as SFB elitists annoys me because it is not true, I'm not one and seeing all 3 players being likewise generalized as being young whipper snappers with no attention span is also annoying. However, from my point of view I've seen more disparaging remarks about OP than 3 and seeing some in the 3 crowd complaining of getting no respect and then putting down the OP crowd seems hypocritical.

Again I'm admittedly biased but you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar and you will have to realize that you're not going to attract everyone anyway no matter what you do. By most of the proponents arguments for SFC3 I should be an avid player of 3. I'm not and probably won't ever be because I just don't enjoy it as much as OP and the rather harsh language thrown by the proponents hasn't helped either.

Age, Cleaven's referring to the fact that though you can ignore the AV indicator, you can't ignore it's effects, it still forces you to fly in a certain manner to get effective shots
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Offline Cleaven

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #149 on: July 31, 2004, 04:29:54 am »
   Plasma bolts  I don't understand them :banghead: There is one thing to AV is put a piece of tape over it on your screen.That solves that.

Ahhh, I was wondering how it was done. Thanks for the tip.


Not sure I can be bothered, but as you are the Doc, can you run an AI standard patrol in 2 minutes in a KRC? If so, there is no problem and I am utterly wrong. If you cannot, then the KRC is a worse ship for AI missions than ones I know can.

Offline The Pelican

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #150 on: July 31, 2004, 04:31:27 am »
Angular Velocity is a minor factor in SFC3 - the only time it has any real effect is when you move in to point blank range. The Range & accuracy of the weapon are the major determining factors.

To anyone who has actually watched Trek, knows that Angular Velocity IS a factor in Star Trek. Watch DS9, watch Voyager. You don't see them avoiding enemy fire by jamming the opponents computer, you hear two words "Evasive Maneouvres". If Angular Velocity had no effect whatsoever, then why both with Evasive Maneouvres? It would have no effect whatsoever. In truth, EW is an SFB thing, and to a Star Trek fan, not an SFB fan, Angular Velocity is a far more canon solution. Even if it is overdone in SFC3.

Personally, I like SFC2 & OP, however there are many things that I don't like about it, Missiles are first and foremost, the most anti-Trek thing I have ever seen in a Trek game. Don't waste time pointing to the Romulan Wars or some small Rakellian ship. The Federation, Klingons, Romulans and so on did not use missiles in the timeline that SFC2 & OP is set in. It doesn't even make sense, why use Missiles when you can use Photons?

The other thing I didn't like was EW, it simply didn't make sense in relation to Star Trek. At least not in the way the game presents it. It might be SFB, but it's not Star Trek, and that is why I bought the game in the first place - to play a Star Trek game.

Offline Mog

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #151 on: July 31, 2004, 04:32:59 am »


Quote
SFC:TNG. One leads to a game of Snoopy Vs The Red Baron,

Gah! Snoopy. I work with Unity modders to bring EAW/OP ships to attract OP'ers -- make VC's and not scan wars-based garbage -- to have them refer to this as Snoopy vs. Red Baron!

What on earth makes you think that by putting some ship models into the game, you'll get thoise of us who don't like to play SFC3 to try it? It's not the ships, it's the systems and rules. SFC3 lacks the weapons and rules that we like to use. A Lyran with photons and no ESGs is not a Lyran. It's a Fed with a better paint job.
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Offline FPF-Jem

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #152 on: July 31, 2004, 04:34:24 am »
Quote

Quote
SFC:TNG. One leads to a game of Snoopy Vs The Red Baron,

Gah! Snoopy. I work with Unity modders to bring EAW/OP ships to attract OP'ers -- make VC's and not scan wars-based garbage -- to have them refer to this as Snoopy vs. Red Baron!

As I said earlier, for me and I know for a few others for sure, it isn't the models or the VCs, it's the basic underlying gameplay, it's just not as interesting or as fun as OP in our opinion.
Capt. Jem


Offline KBF-Dogmatix_XC

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #153 on: July 31, 2004, 04:37:07 am »
Getting back to the sentiment that actually started this thread...


Yes...on the SFC:OP side of things we're dealing with differences between players who want the game to be as close to SFB as possible, those that don't care about SFB at all, and those, like me, who like using SFB as a reference but feel that the game in it's current form is not, cannot nor will it ever be SFB.  It's SFC a game based on many of SFB's rules.


We've been debating about and working on our game for a long time.  We benefited from numerous patches and while the current version of OP isn't perfect, its the best we've had and most of us are happy with that.  The fact the we got several patches and SFC3 did not is hardly any of our fault.  It had to do with what Taldren was allowed to do.  It seems to me that with regard to patching SFC3, they were hamstrung.  I think Taldren continued to support/patch OP mainly because they could and ONE guy made it his mission to do what he could for the game on which he had worked so hard.  That's too bad for the SFC3 crew, but they doesn't mean necessarily that OP received preferential treatment.  Again, I think Activision had a lot to say about what happened in SFC3 and what did not.


Maybe there are SFB snobs who thumb their noses at SFC3 and it's players.  I don't think these folks are in the majority.  Some of us play both games.  Some who play both like one better than the other and that one] isn't always OP.  I think that by and large, people who play OP just don't like SFC3 (if they've bothered to try it at all) and thus just don't get involved with what goes on in SFC3.  I can't say there's a lot of people who play SFC3 who care too much about what goes on in OP-land, either.  That doesn't mean that the two groups cannot co-exist or explore ways to work and play together.  An example is LB5.  It was an interesting experiment and was the first time (as far as I know) that a campaign was run across two different dynaverse platforms.  Sure it was imperfect...that's to be expected on the first time doing something like that.  I'm sure if someone chooses to try it again, it will go better.  However, this is proof to me that there are opportunities for prosperous cooperation and friendly co-existence.


Aside from my not like the game (SFC3) quite as well, I've always had a problem with some of the more vocal individuals in the SFC3 group.  Frankly, WT, while you've never transgressed against me specifically, you're exactly the type of person that keeps me away from SFC3 to an extent.  I've followed your act from Day One and I've grimaced each and every time you've stirred something up.  It seems to me you've been a factor in just about every bit of drama that has come to pass in the SFC3 group.  I'd be shocked if you cannot see that your behavior is detrimental to how the SFC3 group is perceived as well as some of the rifts from which the SFC3 group suffers.  Is it lost on you that you are actually reviled by people who play both games...some of who don't even play SFC3 at all but know about you?  How do you figure this has come to pass?  Do you take any responsibility?  If so, do you intend to do anything to rectify the situation?  I don't doubt for a second that you care about the game and want it to grow, but the constant drama that surrounds you and some of your cohorts doesn't do anything to entice people want to become involved in the game.  I have little doubt in my mind that if you stopped feeding your persecution complex and just concentrated on playing the game, this entire community (I mean ALL of us from both games) would be much better off.


Hey...I'm aware we have our share of wankers in the SFC2/OP group, as well.  We're not perfect.   Well, Cleaven is, but that's beside the point.  ;)


There is no vast conspiracy among the SFC2/OP group to destroy or hinder SFC3.  There is no burning hatred or deep-rooted disrespect among the SFC2/OP group for the game of SFC3 and those who play it.  Some dislike SFC3...some just don't care.  Some (like me), actually do care and want the best for SFC3 and will continue to dabble in it for as long as it's around.  The feelings of dislike or indifference toward SFC3 should not be construed as a disrespect for SFC3. or those who play it and I think it's wrong and completely unfair to try and lay the blame at the feet of the SFBers in the SFC2/OP group.  It's not up to those who play SFC2/OP to ensure SFC3's future or salve the hurt feelings of those who play it.  I don't believe they're responsbile at all for the state of SFC3.


I do know that there are those of us who want to be involved with both games and that D.net and the DGA are committed to supporting both equally and without bias.  We're just trying to get off the ground here and all this BS and drama isn't helping us stay focused on what we need to do.


The twp games are dffierent.  That doesn't mean we shouldn't look for ways to bring some crossover and cooperation between the two groups of players and it darned sure doesn't mean we can't respect each other and try to get along.




Here's hoping that at some point, people finally get tired of this stuff and decide to just get back to playing the game(s) and having fun rather than feeding their egos or stoking the fires of their various neuroses...and that you haven't run the rest of us off in the process.


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Offline AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #154 on: July 31, 2004, 04:38:14 am »
Jem,

I will conceed that the "gentleman" factor for OP/EAW seems to be more enhanced. I think the OP'ers are generally more -- shall we say -- 'thoughtful.' I think friedships are more defined and less confrontational (at this time anyway) in EAW/OP as opposed to SFC3.

Now, if we could mae POLITENESS a server checked validated client file, hoorah!
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Offline Cleaven

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #155 on: July 31, 2004, 04:38:58 am »
Angular Velocity is a minor factor in SFC3 - the only time it has any real effect is when you move in to point blank range. The Range & accuracy of the weapon are the major determining factors.

To anyone who has actually watched Trek, knows that Angular Velocity IS a factor in Star Trek. Watch DS9, watch Voyager. You don't see them avoiding enemy fire by jamming the opponents computer, you hear two words "Evasive Maneouvres". If Angular Velocity had no effect whatsoever, then why both with Evasive Maneouvres? It would have no effect whatsoever. In truth, EW is an SFB thing, and to a Star Trek fan, not an SFB fan, Angular Velocity is a far more canon solution. Even if it is overdone in SFC3.

Actually its not angular velocity but delta AV which should be calculated because that is what is going to make the targetting systems miss. And to a plasma user in SFC:TNG, AV is deadly important.

But I have a serious question, in SFC:TNG does using EM affect the indicated AV for the firer?

Not sure I can be bothered, but as you are the Doc, can you run an AI standard patrol in 2 minutes in a KRC? If so, there is no problem and I am utterly wrong. If you cannot, then the KRC is a worse ship for AI missions than ones I know can.

Offline KAT Chuut-Ritt

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #156 on: July 31, 2004, 04:41:35 am »
Getting back to the sentiment that actually started this thread...


Yes...on the SFC:OP side of things we're dealing with differences between players who want the game to be as close to SFB as possible, those that don't care about SFB at all, and those, like me, who like using SFB as a reference but feel that the game in it's current form is not, cannot nor will it ever be SFB.  It's SFC a game based on many of SFB's rules.


We've been debating about and working on our game for a long time.  We benefited from numerous patches and while the current version of OP isn't perfect, its the best we've had and most of us are happy with that.  The fact the we got several patches and SFC3 did not is hardly any of our fault.  It had to do with what Taldren was allowed to do.  It seems to me that with regard to patching SFC3, they were hamstrung.  I think Taldren continued to support/patch OP mainly because they could and ONE guy made it his mission to do what he could for the game on which he had worked so hard.  That's too bad for the SFC3 crew, but they doesn't mean necessarily that OP received preferential treatment.  Again, I think Activision had a lot to say about what happened in SFC3 and what did not.


Maybe there are SFB snobs who thumb their noses at SFC3 and it's players.  I don't think these folks are in the majority.  Some of us play both games.  Some who play both like one better than the other and that one] isn't always OP.  I think that by and large, people who play OP just don't like SFC3 (if they've bothered to try it at all) and thus just don't get involved with what goes on in SFC3.  I can't say there's a lot of people who play SFC3 who care too much about what goes on in OP-land, either.  That doesn't mean that the two groups cannot co-exist or explore ways to work and play together.  An example is LB5.  It was an interesting experiment and was the first time (as far as I know) that a campaign was run across two different dynaverse platforms.  Sure it was imperfect...that's to be expected on the first time doing something like that.  I'm sure if someone chooses to try it again, it will go better.  However, this is proof to me that there are opportunities for prosperous cooperation and friendly co-existence.


Aside from my not like the game (SFC3) quite as well, I've always had a problem with some of the more vocal individuals in the SFC3 group.  Frankly, WT, while you've never transgressed against me specifically, you're exactly the type of person that keeps me away from SFC3 to an extent.  I've followed your act from Day One and I've grimaced each and every time you've stirred something up.  It seems to me you've been a factor in just about every bit of drama that has come to pass in the SFC3 group.  I'd be shocked if you cannot see that your behavior is detrimental to how the SFC3 group is perceived as well as some of the rifts from which the SFC3 group suffers.  Is it lost on you that you are actually reviled by people who play both games...some of who don't even play SFC3 at all but know about you?  How do you figure this has come to pass?  Do you take any responsibility?  If so, do you intent to do anything to rectify the situation?  I don't doubt for a second that you care about the game and want it to grow, but the constant drama that surrounds you and some of your cohorts doesn't do anything to entice people want to become involved in the game.  I have little doubt in my mind that if you stopped feeding your persecution complex and just concentrated on playing the game, this entire community (I mean ALL of us from both games) would be much better off.


Hey...I'm aware we have our share of wankers in the SFC2/OP group, as well.  We're not perfect.   Well, Cleaven is, but that's beside the point.  ;)


There is no vast conspiracy among the SFC2/OP group to destroy or hinder SFC3.  There is no burning hatred or deep-rooted disrespect among the SFC2/OP group for the game of SFC3 and those who play it.  Some dislike SFC3...some just don't care.  So (like me), actually do care and want the best for SFC3 and will continue to dabble in it for as long as it's around.  The feelings of dislike or indifference toward SFC3 should not be construed as a disrespect for SFC3. or those who play it and I think it's wrong and completely unfair to try and lay the blame at the feet of the SFBers in the SFC2/OP group.  It's not up to those who play SFC2/OP to ensure SFC3's future or salve the hurt feelings of those who play it.  I don't believe they're responsbile at all for the state of SFC3.


I do know that there are those of us who want to be involved with both games and that D.net and the DGA are committed to supporting both equally and without bias.  We're just trying to get off the ground here and all this BS and drama isn't helping us stay focused on what we need to do.


The twp games are dffierent.  That doesn't mean we shouldn't look for ways to bring some crossover and cooperation between the two groups of players and it darned sure doesn't mean we can't respect each other and try to get along.




Here's hoping that at some point, people finally get tired of this stuff and decide to just get back to playing the game(s) and having fun rather than feeding their egos or stoking the fires of their various neuroses...and that you haven't run the rest of us off in the process.




Word Doggy,

Brutha Chuut

P.S.  Don't say too much however Cleaven is giving me the best laugh I've had in a long time.......

Roll on Cleaven :thumbsup:

Offline AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #157 on: July 31, 2004, 04:45:33 am »
Getting back to the sentiment that actually started this thread...


Yes...on the SFC:OP side of things we're dealing with differences between players who want the game to be as close to SFB as possible, those that don't care about SFB at all, and those, like me, who like using SFB as a reference but feel that the game in it's current form is not, cannot nor will it ever be SFB.  It's SFC a game based on many of SFB's rules.


We've been debating about and working on our game for a long time.  We benefited from numerous patches and while the current version of OP isn't perfect, its the best we've had and most of us are happy with that.  The fact the we got several patches and SFC3 did not is hardly any of our fault.  It had to do with what Taldren was allowed to do.  It seems to me that with regard to patching SFC3, they were hamstrung.  I think Taldren continued to support/patch OP mainly because they could and ONE guy made it his mission to do what he could for the game on which he had worked so hard.  That's too bad for the SFC3 crew, but they doesn't mean necessarily that OP received preferential treatment.  Again, I think Activision had a lot to say about what happened in SFC3 and what did not.


Maybe there are SFB snobs who thumb their noses at SFC3 and it's players.  I don't think these folks are in the majority.  Some of us play both games.  Some who play both like one better than the other and that one] isn't always OP.  I think that by and large, people who play OP just don't like SFC3 (if they've bothered to try it at all) and thus just don't get involved with what goes on in SFC3.  I can't say there's a lot of people who play SFC3 who care too much about what goes on in OP-land, either.  That doesn't mean that the two groups cannot co-exist or explore ways to work and play together.  An example is LB5.  It was an interesting experiment and was the first time (as far as I know) that a campaign was run across two different dynaverse platforms.  Sure it was imperfect...that's to be expected on the first time doing something like that.  I'm sure if someone chooses to try it again, it will go better.  However, this is proof to me that there are opportunities for prosperous cooperation and friendly co-existence.


Aside from my not like the game (SFC3) quite as well, I've always had a problem with some of the more vocal individuals in the SFC3 group.  Frankly, WT, while you've never transgressed against me specifically, you're exactly the type of person that keeps me away from SFC3 to an extent.  I've followed your act from Day One and I've grimaced each and every time you've stirred something up.  It seems to me you've been a factor in just about every bit of drama that has come to pass in the SFC3 group.  I'd be shocked if you cannot see that your behavior is detrimental to how the SFC3 group is perceived as well as some of the rifts from which the SFC3 group suffers.  Is it lost on you that you are actually reviled by people who play both games...some of who don't even play SFC3 at all but know about you?  How do you figure this has come to pass?  Do you take any responsibility?  If so, do you intent to do anything to rectify the situation?  I don't doubt for a second that you care about the game and want it to grow, but the constant drama that surrounds you and some of your cohorts doesn't do anything to entice people want to become involved in the game.  I have little doubt in my mind that if you stopped feeding your persecution complex and just concentrated on playing the game, this entire community (I mean ALL of us from both games) would be much better off.


Hey...I'm aware we have our share of wankers in the SFC2/OP group, as well.  We're not perfect.   Well, Cleaven is, but that's beside the point.  ;)


There is no vast conspiracy among the SFC2/OP group to destroy or hinder SFC3.  There is no burning hatred or deep-rooted disrespect among the SFC2/OP group for the game of SFC3 and those who play it.  Some dislike SFC3...some just don't care.  So (like me), actually do care and want the best for SFC3 and will continue to dabble in it for as long as it's around.  The feelings of dislike or indifference toward SFC3 should not be construed as a disrespect for SFC3. or those who play it and I think it's wrong and completely unfair to try and lay the blame at the feet of the SFBers in the SFC2/OP group.  It's not up to those who play SFC2/OP to ensure SFC3's future or salve the hurt feelings of those who play it.  I don't believe they're responsbile at all for the state of SFC3.


I do know that there are those of us who want to be involved with both games and that D.net and the DGA are committed to supporting both equally and without bias.  We're just trying to get off the ground here and all this BS and drama isn't helping us stay focused on what we need to do.


The twp games are dffierent.  That doesn't mean we shouldn't look for ways to bring some crossover and cooperation between the two groups of players and it darned sure doesn't mean we can't respect each other and try to get along.




Here's hoping that at some point, people finally get tired of this stuff and decide to just get back to playing the game(s) and having fun rather than feeding their egos or stoking the fires of their various neuroses...and that you haven't run the rest of us off in the process.




Good post, Dog. Excellent perspective, well thought and carefully worded.

I'll try to answer the WT stuff after some sleep. Cleavan wore me out ... Is he always this way? ;)
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KoraH: "Remember my advice to you Wade, that you should drop SFC ...  you will find that all you have to put up with to do so is going to sour the sweetness of your hard work."

Offline KAT Chuut-Ritt

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #158 on: July 31, 2004, 04:47:20 am »

I'll try to answer the WT stuff after some sleep. Cleavan wore me out ... Is he always this way? ;)

Nope he usually doesn't cut people so much slack.

Offline AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

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Re: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made
« Reply #159 on: July 31, 2004, 04:48:22 am »
Quote
But I have a serious question, in SFC:TNG does using EM affect the indicated AV for the firer?

Yes, Cleavan, as far as I know it does. But firing a probe counter balances EM affects for the shooter or just the simple use of good hot keys.
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KoraH: "Remember my advice to you Wade, that you should drop SFC ...  you will find that all you have to put up with to do so is going to sour the sweetness of your hard work."