Topic: Crystalline Tholian models -- Posting in their own thread (Read 20281 times)

Brezgonne · « **on:** September 09, 2004, 01:15:11 pm »

I'm posting the crystal tholians here in their own thread so they don't get lost in a post with a funny and mostly unrealted title.

Rendering

SFC Version

I'm going to post a rendering of the VERY green destroyer in a little bit.

markyd · « **Reply #1 on:** September 09, 2004, 01:16:45 pm »

Great work... shame we cant make external glows extruding out of the hull ingame eh?

Nice stuff!

Brezgonne · « **Reply #2 on:** September 09, 2004, 01:28:11 pm »

Rendering of the VERY green DD/CL version

Chris Johnson · « **Reply #3 on:** September 09, 2004, 03:16:01 pm »

Those are some unique Tholians. I really like the designs and overall coloring. The glows in the rendering make 'em perfect in pictures.

J. Carney · « **Reply #4 on:** September 09, 2004, 03:59:31 pm »

ZOWIE!!!
(Again!)

Great to see you back, Brezgonne. Your modling abilities, especially with the Tholians, were sorely missed in your absence. I don't know when you came back, but glad to know that you are here!

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #5 on:** September 09, 2004, 04:31:33 pm »

Nice ships! More Targets for the Tholian Border Harassment Squadron, LOL.

For younger veiwers, it should be noted that Brezgonne is, IMHO, THE expert on SFB Tholians.

Welcome back Brezgonne!

KF

Brezgonne · « **Reply #6 on:** September 09, 2004, 05:45:16 pm »

Hehe....

Between the last time you guys saw me a yearish ago and now, I've gotten half a dozen ships published as historial in SFB

They are in Captains Log 25 or 26 (I forget which)

NCH, NCM, NDH, NFH and X versions of the same. They even have counters

J. Carney · « **Reply #7 on:** September 09, 2004, 10:06:42 pm »

Quote from: Brezgonne on September 09, 2004, 05:45:16 pm

Between the last time you guys saw me a yearish ago and now, I've gotten half a dozen ships published as historial in SFB

Hot Damn!

Way to go Brez!

Brezgonne · « **Reply #8 on:** September 10, 2004, 01:51:54 am »

Okay, here is an ingame shot of the C-NDD

I changed the model a bit and it lacks the glowie stuff but blue isnt' a bad color for it IMO

Brezgonne · « **Reply #9 on:** September 10, 2004, 01:53:47 am »

I also have the first revision model of the more traditional looking Tholians done.

Here's the NCL

Brezgonne · « **Reply #10 on:** September 10, 2004, 01:57:32 am »

Oh yeah..... the break up models work for these ships to

Polygon Counts:

C-NCA: 450ish
C-NDD: 856
NCL3: 576

PS: the last two pics were both ingame shots. I just don't have anywhere to put the models

Darkdrone · « **Reply #11 on:** September 10, 2004, 03:08:11 am »

nice too see you back man

if you need somewhere to upload files too sfc3files.com can add them
so people can download them

DD

Dizzy · « **Reply #12 on:** September 10, 2004, 07:33:06 am »

WOW, Brez... those are SWEET!

Total eye candy!

Like DD said, there are a few sites that will host these for you. Look thru the links inthe stickied model links above and follow thru with some of those peeps. Im sure u will find more than a few takers.

DD, sfc3files, misleading. I looked thru it and couldnt tell which ships were for sfc3 or 2. I dont like that site.

Brezgonne · « **Reply #13 on:** September 10, 2004, 12:49:46 pm »

Yay! The V3 NCA is done. My little brother particuarly liked all the pieces flying everywhere when it blows up

KBF-Kurok · « **Reply #14 on:** September 10, 2004, 01:07:46 pm »

SWEETcant wait to get them

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #15 on:** September 10, 2004, 02:58:49 pm »

Sweetness dude.

Good to see you back after so long...

You probably dont remember me. I was known as Steelviper33 a few years ago...and i think i just came onto taldren when you left.

Brezgonne · « **Reply #16 on:** September 10, 2004, 05:20:37 pm »

Dizzy asked for a red one so here is the NCA with "Damn thats EVIL!" red textures.

J. Carney · « **Reply #17 on:** September 10, 2004, 06:56:17 pm »

Those red textures are SWEET!!!!

I vote for a whole fleet like that!

Would it be too much work, Brez?

Dizzy · « **Reply #18 on:** September 10, 2004, 07:22:43 pm »

Quote from: J. Carney on September 10, 2004, 06:56:17 pm

Those red textures are SWEET!!!!

I vote for a whole fleet like that!

Would it be too much work, Brez?

Quote from: J. Carney on September 10, 2004, 06:56:17 pm

Those red textures are SWEET!!!!

I vote for a whole fleet like that!

Would it be too much work, Brez?

Brez is planning on a whole fleet if I am not mistaken. It is planned to be available in the upcoming Slave Girls 4 Dyna Server D/L.

Here is an FCA and TDD comparison. The Tholian DD is roughly 2/3rds the length of the FCA and has about 1/3 the mass.

Chris Johnson · « **Reply #19 on:** September 10, 2004, 09:00:01 pm »

Good job Brez, although I prefer the blue over the crimson-red... *shrug*

I take it it'll only be available in the said Dynaverse pack, Dizzy?

Dizzy · « **Reply #20 on:** September 10, 2004, 09:13:12 pm »

I hope not. I'm sure they will trickle out and be posted each time Brez finishes one. The entire pack will be offered whole in SG4 perhaps with a few new releases. I'm probably like most and dont want to wait that long for these eye candy looking models.

Oh, and if you prefer one over the other, the blue and the red crystal textures will both be offered, one as default and one as an alternate.

J. Carney · « **Reply #21 on:** September 10, 2004, 09:49:42 pm »

The blue is really cool, the red just looks more SFB-like.

Perhaps it could be that the different colors are from different fleets?

Chris Johnson · « **Reply #22 on:** September 10, 2004, 10:15:21 pm »

I never thought of red to be more SFB-like as much as brown or standard grey or something. The blue, however, seems like a more-exotic feel with the other colors, giving new life to Tholian ships rather than being standardized hull and something unique that the Tholians truely needed (outside of the ships you see in Klingon Academy, which sort-of helped out with the idea of Tholians using a unique, strong crystal hull that is stronger than even Gorn hull), in which you'd rarely see in most interpretations of Tholian ships (my guess is).

J. Carney · « **Reply #23 on:** September 10, 2004, 10:57:54 pm »

Quote from: Chris Johnson on September 10, 2004, 10:15:21 pm

I never thought of red to be more SFB-like as much as brown or standard grey or something.

I always thought the ones in TOS wer kinda copper colored.

I may be wrong. That is why I said red made me think SFB-ish.

But the blue is unique indeed. I'll probably use both colors- one for the disruptor ships and one for the photon ships!

Brezgonne · « **Reply #24 on:** September 10, 2004, 11:07:32 pm »

*watches Dizzy get outvoted for the blue ships with some amusment

*

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #25 on:** September 10, 2004, 11:24:09 pm »

Quote from: Brezgonne on September 10, 2004, 11:07:32 pm

*watches Dizzy get outvoted for the blue ships with some amusment *

Brez,

I just did retexture your SFB Tholian BATS using mostly BLUE Klingon Academy Amythest TBCH textures. I kept the red [fumbles for proper terms and draws a complete blank] DS9 style power core for good contrast and I capped the very top with some of the green textures from the Sapphire. In game, SFC: OP that is, the retextured TBATS now has a cool shimmer effect caused by the textures on the mesh when you rotate it. I bet it would look better in SFC3 with the glow effects. I have to get some pics that can do the retexture justice...

Qapla!

KF

Sapharite · « **Reply #26 on:** September 11, 2004, 07:06:30 am »

Breg I liked all of your Tholians... Your page was for me a guide through the wolrd of Tholians. BTW I like your current textures. You have and had the best intuition how to create best SFC Tholian models

Keep it up

I just can't wait myself to put my fingers onto them hahahahahah

Reverend · « **Reply #27 on:** September 11, 2004, 12:10:25 pm »

I still have the link to your old page Brezgonne, and possess almost all of your old Tholians, to which I still play to this day (privately, of course)... I beg of you to release these new Tholians, they are stependous. I loved your old fleet, but you've outdone yourself this time.
I was curious of you would make more of them, maybe another fleet like before... the NCA is my favorite so far... do you think you could make a DN sometime?
Its really nice to see you back again Brez!!!

Brezgonne · « **Reply #28 on:** September 11, 2004, 02:44:42 pm »

I don't mind releasing them but the problem persists that I have no place to release them TO. I don't have access to my web page anymore and can't contact anyone there to fix it. So I need a new web space.

I finished a very odd looking ship this morning, a Hex cruiser.

Basicly unless I can find some web space you guys will have to wait till SG4 is up since the models should be part of that package.

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #29 on:** September 11, 2004, 04:10:15 pm »

Quote from: Brezgonne on September 11, 2004, 02:44:42 pm

I don't mind releasing them but the problem persists that I have no place to release them TO. I don't have access to my web page anymore and can't contact anyone there to fix it. So I need a new web space.

I finished a very odd looking ship this morning, a Hex cruiser.

Basicly unless I can find some web space you guys will have to wait till SG4 is up since the models should be part of that package.

Some FREE hosting options are:

http://www.stcd.sgnonline.com/users/trimodyards/yard.htm

and

http://www.strategyplanet.com/sfc/files.shtml

I use both regularly to host retextures I do.

Qapla!

KF

Reverend · « **Reply #30 on:** September 13, 2004, 10:46:35 pm »

Quote from: Klingon Fanatic on September 11, 2004, 04:10:15 pm

Quote from: Brezgonne on September 11, 2004, 02:44:42 pm
I don't mind releasing them but the problem persists that I have no place to release them TO. I don't have access to my web page anymore and can't contact anyone there to fix it. So I need a new web space.

I finished a very odd looking ship this morning, a Hex cruiser.

Basicly unless I can find some web space you guys will have to wait till SG4 is up since the models should be part of that package.

Some FREE hosting options are:

http://www.stcd.sgnonline.com/users/trimodyards/yard.htm

and

http://www.strategyplanet.com/sfc/files.shtml

I use both regularly to host retextures I do.

Qapla!

KF

good call KF...
whatcha think, Brez? Get an opprotunity to look at those site? C'mon, I even waited 24 hours to post this! Ask Azel how small of an amount of time I used to be able to hold out without harassing him!

Brezgonne · « **Reply #31 on:** September 13, 2004, 11:29:14 pm »

Sorta was hoping for somewhere I could set a web page up but I suppose those could work for the time being.

Which model do you guys want first?

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #32 on:** September 13, 2004, 11:37:07 pm »

Freewebs?

-=shrug=-

I dunno, dude. I wish I could help, because these models are too good to keep locked up.

Reverend · « **Reply #33 on:** September 15, 2004, 12:42:37 am »

What ones do we want? Jimeny Christmas, all of them! Now! Today! ha ha ha... please?

Fallen_Warrior, I sure am lost... could you please repost a link to your site? I sure like to have it my Favorites- very cool of you, this service...

Chris Johnson · « **Reply #34 on:** September 23, 2004, 06:34:26 pm »

I believe this thread is worth a bump or to.

So bump.

Reverend · « **Reply #35 on:** September 23, 2004, 10:49:51 pm »

I second that emotion-

bump-holio!

Dizzy · « **Reply #36 on:** September 24, 2004, 02:16:59 am »

Here's the latest completed model from Brez. The Arachno TCA. The rear shot isnt pictured, but it's the best looking.

Brezgonne · « **Reply #37 on:** September 24, 2004, 02:23:48 am »

If you don't like the green sections smack Dizzy over the head for complaining till I put them in

Edit: Technicly it's not the 'latest' model. I've got others done to.

Arachno: PC/DD, CW, CA, BC/DN (Two versions of each), PC/DD Pinwheel, CW Pinwheel

Neo: NCL, NCA, NDN

Crystal/X-Ship: GUN, PC, DD, CA

Planets: Tholia

Reverend · « **Reply #38 on:** September 24, 2004, 10:41:23 am »

Execellent! That's a great design... I like, personally, more single hull designs, but, that one above is simply fantastic!

Well, Dizzy, there's your darn green one!

Chris Johnson · « **Reply #39 on:** September 24, 2004, 11:33:11 am »

Man, that looks beautiful... Big project ahead of you though, it would seem.

Brezgonne · « **Reply #40 on:** September 24, 2004, 12:16:15 pm »

What big project?

I have the Arachno PF, Neo PF, Neo FF, DD, BB and the Crystal DN and BB.

Maybe some bases to.

Dizzy · « **Reply #41 on:** September 24, 2004, 12:33:07 pm »

Yeah, chris, he keeps surprising me too. Seems he finishes two models b4 I can post the 1st one, heh.

Chris Johnson · « **Reply #42 on:** September 24, 2004, 01:08:20 pm »

Okay, for me it would be, Brez. *shrug* But good job.

By the way... I thought "Tholia" was an Akiraprise term for the Tholian homeworld... I guess that's just me wondering why Vulcans don't name their homeworld Vulca. *shrug* lol

Brezgonne · « **Reply #43 on:** September 24, 2004, 03:39:49 pm »

Tholia is the Holdfast capital and a small dyson's sphere with 20 F&E PDUs. It's the single most heavuly fortified position in the known galaxy.

What I did for the moment (till I think of something better) was to take a planet model and surround it with web.

Chris Johnson · « **Reply #44 on:** September 24, 2004, 03:46:36 pm »

I was sort-of aware of what it was, what I wasn't aware of was what its true name was, aside from the readout of homeworlds from "Akiraprise". I think it's just lack of originality to just call planets after the name of the species and remove the letter n. I never truely thought that the original name of the Tholian homeworld was Tholia. I figured "Tholia" was some lame Terran/Federation designation, much like how the Vulcan offshoot race began to be called "Romulans". But this is only me I guess. *shrug*

Brezgonne · « **Reply #45 on:** September 24, 2004, 04:57:45 pm »

It's not the homeworld. It's one of a dozen or so a regional capitals from their home galaxy. There were/are 11 or so more of them out there somewhere.

And no, I don't think they call it Tholia either. And yes I agree it's a Federation/Klingon name that the Tholians don't really care if the puny carbon races use.

In F&E a major planet (Say, earth) produces 5 EP. The Tholian dyson's sphere produces 20 (TWENTY) EP. As a single "planet", it would be the single greatest prize to capture for any of the Tholians enemies.

That is, If they can get past the 120 Ph4s, 480 Ph3s, 20 Sensor bases, 240 fighters, 120 PFs, 2 Layers of web, the entire Tholian fleet, and the STARBASE that is around/on the sphere. (F&E: 20 PDUs + Starbase + average ships = 380 Attack value vs about a max of 180 AV for the attacker if they used all DNs)

Perspective: Most of the capital worlds have about a quarter (1/4) of the PDUs that Tholia has. Hydrax I think had about 10 PDUs by the time the Klingons and Lyrans came and bombed it again.

Brezgonne · « **Reply #46 on:** September 28, 2004, 01:48:46 pm »

Anyone want to see a draft Crystal DN/BB?

Brezgonne · « **Reply #47 on:** September 28, 2004, 01:51:02 pm »

comments? Suggestions.

I know Dizzy will find something he doesn't like about it lol

Dizzy · « **Reply #48 on:** September 28, 2004, 02:34:57 pm »

Crysataline versions of thols need to be beautiful to behold and scary looking at the same time. That does the job well enough.

I do think it looks too short tho. give it the S t r e t c h.

IAF Lyrkiller · « **Reply #49 on:** September 28, 2004, 02:46:56 pm »

Brez, those models are way too cool, + karma for you...

Brezgonne · « **Reply #50 on:** September 28, 2004, 03:03:27 pm »

Dizzy: It's actually slightly longer than it looks in that picture. The JPG compression just made the rear spike hard to see.

It's also longer than the B10

Chris Johnson · « **Reply #51 on:** September 28, 2004, 03:49:25 pm »

Ships don't necessarily to be beautiful nor scary, as form follows function. In Brez's recent Tholian models, it has a functional form without sacrificing beauty, and adding a hint of scariness I guess. The DN/BB is no exception. I never thought Tholian ships would necessarily be scary, but would definately be crystal-like. That's why I like Brez's recent models.

You can sacrifice scariness Brez, or keep closer to the SFB Tholians if you want, or keep going on original like this, Brez. In any case, I'll be behind you as long as they're crystalline-like and you are portraying them very well in said area (as you are doing now). I would definately use all your new Tholian ships as I have with your old ones.

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #52 on:** September 28, 2004, 04:00:54 pm »

yeah, these are intimidating as hell...i would hate to have to go up against one of these.

I cant wait to grab them.

Brezgonne · « **Reply #53 on:** September 28, 2004, 08:19:32 pm »

Wheee! Here is the Crystal Light Cruiser..... (Ie; I figured out where to stick my old Xeon model

)

Reverend · « **Reply #54 on:** September 28, 2004, 10:56:36 pm »

THese are beautiful, absolutely beautiful!!! I play your old fleet quite a bit in a private mod I made...
these new textures are brilliant, directly as well as idea-wise (damn, lost the words I was going to use).

One thing I wanted to ask of you, if its even your care to do so.... not insinuating that these aren't good enough, by any means, just a thought.... or one I always wanted to ask..

Is it possible that you would want to make a more futuristic version of these hulls, and maybe even keeping the same textures? Lets say, for a custom TNG or even post-VOY campaign? I have ideas in my head, but I cannot even draw a smiley face on paper. Something really interesting or wild would be neat. Maybe a new BC, DN, not even a whole fleet just a few would be neat too.
Again, these are marvelous designs, but the above was just somethingI always wanted to ask, hopefully this is in the right tone and context.
If you are not really interested, just disregard, its fine, but I thought it could be fun.

Either way-
Thanks for the great work, keep it coming...

Chris Johnson · « **Reply #55 on:** September 29, 2004, 12:01:35 am »

Although I'm not Brez, I must ask Rev, do you mean like more crystalized TNG versions of SFB Tholians? That would be nice, but I'm not sure... I'm happy with what I have, and about to, whenever these get released.

I really don't have much reccomendations, Brez; the CL model is quite good for your new take on Tholian ships.

Brezgonne · « **Reply #56 on:** September 29, 2004, 02:14:41 am »

Well if I had somewhere I could upload like 50 MB of model and texture files, you guys would have them already

Though to tell the truth, the two files (textures and models) come up to around 7.5 MB if I include all the draft version of Tholia.

I've got these done:

Neo
NCL, NCA, NDN, NBB

Arachno
PC/DD, CL/CA/CC, CW, BC/DN

Both
PF, NSB (Starbase)

Crystal Tholians
Gunship, PC, DD, CL, CA, DN/BB

------
Drafts
Nine or ten differant versions of Tholia. Meta-construction is suprisingly diffcult to make look nice

----
Things to do

Find a Tholia model I actually LIKE.

Make the Neo NDD and NFF.

Make a fighter model.

Make a BATS model.

Umm... thats about it.

Brezgonne · « **Reply #57 on:** September 29, 2004, 04:54:34 am »

Ya know... you guys are allowed to say if something sucks or not

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #58 on:** September 29, 2004, 05:22:35 am »

Thats just it, they dont!

Reverend · « **Reply #59 on:** September 29, 2004, 07:24:17 am »

agreed!

None of the free space/hosting did you any good? Are you able to drop any poiles on those models? Not that it matters really.... heck, worse comes to worse,we can mail them back and forth- I have a cable connection, and will run Messenger all day for everyone...

Brezgonne · « **Reply #60 on:** September 29, 2004, 11:56:52 am »

I tried Starfleet Universe's upload system and, while functional, it's rather cumbersome since I have to go through a number of forms for every file.

Once I have every Tholian ship done for the inital pack I'll probably upload it to starfleet universe just to get them out there. Note however that I'm going to be doing it in a rather odd manner.

I'm going to have the textures in one zip file and the models in another. All the models use more or less the same texture files so it seems rather silly to duplicate 6 mb of BMP files like 20 times.

So far I've got 59 models if you count the Tholia drafts and the break models. That's about 25 or so ships in the current package.

Brezgonne · « **Reply #61 on:** September 29, 2004, 01:51:03 pm »

Oooooooooooo

Yaaay!

That would rule. I'm a bit hesitant to email the files though since they are both about 7 mb each. Thats almost certain to totally clog up your email account. If you still want me to though, I will.

brezgonne2 at earthlink dot net (put that together for the email address)

Brezgonne · « **Reply #62 on:** October 01, 2004, 04:49:27 pm »

I got bored and made another ship as sorta a joke. Any of you want it?

The top picture is it's current form. Bottem is the first draft.

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #63 on:** October 01, 2004, 04:53:26 pm »

now THAT is cool.

I mean is different enough from the shadow ship that it can work great.

fantastic work.

Brezgonne · « **Reply #64 on:** October 02, 2004, 12:22:25 am »

"PLEASE NOTE all Mod files and textures are in 1 massize folder so you will have to work out which file goes with which textures if you wish to play these amazing ship in your game"

Thats not exactly true. The models just assume that the texture files and .MOD files are all in the same folder. I personally think it's sort of stupid to duplicate 3-5 mb of texture files 29 times or more when I can just have one copy of all the textures, in one folder, and just have the models draw from that.

Klingon Fanatic · « **Reply #65 on:** October 02, 2004, 12:26:51 am »

Quote from: Brezgonne on October 02, 2004, 12:22:25 am

"PLEASE NOTE all Mod files and textures are in 1 massize folder so you will have to work out which file goes with which textures if you wish to play these amazing ship in your game"

Thats not exactly true. The models just assume that the texture files and .MOD files are all in the same folder. I personally think it's sort of stupid to duplicate 3-5 mb of texture files 29 times or more when I can just have one copy of all the textures, in one folder, and just have the models draw from that.

Thanks Brezgonne and Fallen_Warrior.

BTW: where are those weird crystalline monsters you showed us?

KF

Brezgonne · « **Reply #66 on:** October 02, 2004, 12:52:35 am »

Quote from: Furyofaseraph on October 01, 2004, 04:53:26 pm

now THAT is cool.

I mean is different enough from the shadow ship that it can work great.

fantastic work.

The model looks a bit more differant from the old shadow vessel I did a couple years ago if it's viewed in 3D. A bit more than you can see from the screeen shot at least.

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #67 on:** October 02, 2004, 12:54:47 am »

Even better...you should put that up for download - it would be a good TNG Tholian ship.

Brezgonne · « **Reply #68 on:** October 02, 2004, 01:00:54 am »

Which crystal monsters? The ones in the Tholia thread?

Provided GH didn't change the contents of the archive, they should be Tholia1, 2, ect....

The shadow looking ship above isn't quite done yet. I still want to tweak it some.

Brezgonne · « **Reply #69 on:** October 02, 2004, 01:46:13 am »

Here is the slightly more refined version of the Bio cruiser

KAT Chuut-Ritt · « **Reply #70 on:** October 02, 2004, 07:06:41 am »

<Chuut enters room, wallks up to Brez and looks at new ship>

Chuut: very nice Brez excellent work

Brez: Why thank you Chuut, just a little something I threw together when I was bored

***Twack***

<Brez is nearly toppled from his seat as Chuuts metal gauntlet makes impact>

Brez: What the hell was that for?

Chuut: Well you said you were bored, figured I'd give you some excitement, as apparently designing those new Mirak ships you agreed to wasn't exciting enough.....

Brez: Bastard!

Chuut: That is me........

<Chuut hand Brez a bag of the best Katnip>

Chuut: now lets get creative!

<Chuut walks out of romm>

Brez: Bastard!.....hmmm...

<Sticks nose in bag of 'nip>

Brez: Damn, good stuff

<Brez opens file entitled "Bastard Fleet">

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #71 on:** October 02, 2004, 07:19:51 am »

NICE!

Lol, funny chuut

Okay, this has officially become the template for TNG Tholians - in my mind at least - please tell me you are gonna be doing more Bio-Crystal ships

Brezgonne · « **Reply #72 on:** October 02, 2004, 08:26:51 pm »

Chuut:

I tried making a Kzinti and while I can make the model look nice, the textures are being annoying.

Rest:

Does the blue or the red look better?

Brezgonne · « **Reply #73 on:** October 02, 2004, 08:43:24 pm »

or maybe this one?

FoaS_XC · « **Reply #74 on:** October 02, 2004, 08:54:36 pm »

Either entirely red or entirely blue...or the both, but im not sure i like the combination.

J. Carney · « **Reply #75 on:** October 02, 2004, 09:47:58 pm »

All red... it looks EVIL like that. Definately an intimidating BB design.

KAT Chuut-Ritt · « **Reply #76 on:** October 03, 2004, 01:32:12 am »

If ity aint Kzin its crap......

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Topic: Crystalline Tholian models -- Posting in their own thread (Read 20281 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Topic: Crystalline Tholian models -- Posting in their own thread (Read 20281 times)