Topic: New Reman Warbird

[Azel]

This design is based on Fallen_Warrior's description
I just fleshed it out

[wrathofachilles]

theres like no upper limit to your skill....

on a less exaulting note fantastic, just fantastic, looks like a cruiser man and everything is interesting

[Adonis]

WOW!

Another mean machine :twisted:

[ModelsPlease]

WOW That's viscious I love it !!!! Great work guys !
-MP

[Darkseid]

I made the comment not to long ago that we could use some new Remans.  Now we do!  I Would Really Like To See This Model Made.

[pepperman]

WOW!  Between Azel's and Raven Nights Reman design's we will soon have a fleet sufficent to invade the mighty Federation.

Great job!

[Azel]

WOW!  Between Azel's and Raven Nights Reman design's we will soon have a fleet sufficent to invade the mighty Federation.

Great job!

Just rember...  the remans don't have crap...techically
Its all Romulan

[Darkseid]

WOW!  Between Azel's and Raven Nights Reman design's we will soon have a fleet sufficent to invade the mighty Federation.

Great job!

Just rember...  the remans don't have crap...techically
Its all Romulan

True, but the design is still Reman, just with Romulan Tech.

[OlBuzzard]

WOW ..   hehehehe


here we go again folks.

(great stuff !)

[Darkseid]

I always wondered how the Vulcans would treat the Remans if Unification succeeded.  But this ship rocks and I look forward to her texture.  Oh yeah and a modeled one 

[Azel]

I always wondered how the Vulcans would treat the Remans if Unification succeeded.  But this ship rocks and I look forward to her texture.  Oh yeah and a modeled one 

Logically of course 

[Azel]

bump...lol

[pepperman]

Any update on this?  Who is modeling it?

[Reverend]

Nice

[pepperman]

Sorry to resurrect a very old thread but I was wondering if anyone ever made this ship.  I have been thinking about doing something in my spare time (not that I have much) and this one came to mind.

[Centurus]

I think no one's made this one, so as long as Atolm gives consent, I'd say go for it.

[Atolm-Rising]

I never did it, so go right ahead mate

[pepperman]

I roughed out the wings abit to get a feel for the ole girl

[Shadowfleet]

Nice start PM. When she's complete, I can convert her to SFC for you like I did last year. Just give her to me in 3ds via the email in my profile and I'll ahve her done and sent back to you in no time for release.

[Kreeargh]

Beautifull work just beautifull  you Guys got these rom and remans down pat .

[pepperman]

Making a little progress

[Magnum357]

Just a quick question.  Is this Reman ship suppose to be smaller then the ST:Nemesis Scimitar, perhaps a support vessel maybe?  Cruiser?  Hard to get a scale of it with the pics provided.

[Magnum357]

Ok, but so was the Scimatar, well... sort of.  It was a Battleship (basically) with fighters aswell.  Is this ship suppose to be larger or smaller?

[pepperman]

With respect to a front view FW what were you thinking on the wings: flat, curved, bent down...could you give me a sketch to see what you have in mind.


With respect to the bottom hull, what shape would it have if one looked at it from the  bottom up.

[pepperman]

Something along these lines then?

[starship]

Very good Dr. Pepper.

[pepperman]

FW...is this what you had in mind for the bottom hull?  Personally, I like the cruiser idea better over the carrier.  The bottom hull just doesn't work for me.  Also, you mentioned textures in the earlier part of the thread, did you ever finish them?

[pepperman]

Laying a few panel lines

[Atolm-Rising]

Awesome!
if you could extrude some of the feathers you'll have some amazing stuff, but its up to you

[KBF_Gow]

Awesome!
if you could extrude some of the feathers you'll have some amazing stuff, but its up to you

or not.  Bird shaped paintjobs are one thing, mechanical birds in space are absurd.

Im not knocking the obvious talent of the maker.  Very nice work.

Just that the concept is japanimation and extruded feathers would just make it worse.  Fine line between "ooh bird inspired starship" and "OOOh robot space bird" that too many modelmakers have crossed.

[pepperman]

Right now this vesion won't be able to go there as she is low poly 2176 ish.  A lot more polys for that, I'm sure.

[pepperman]

I agree it wouldn't necessarily add to many polys; however considering the current layout of the mesh a fair amount of work would be involved.

[Atolm-Rising]

Awesome!
if you could extrude some of the feathers you'll have some amazing stuff, but its up to you

or not.  Bird shaped paintjobs are one thing, mechanical birds in space are absurd.

Im not knocking the obvious talent of the maker.  Very nice work.

Just that the concept is japanimation and extruded feathers would just make it worse.  Fine line between "ooh bird inspired starship" and "OOOh robot space bird" that too many modelmakers have crossed.

That would be your opinion mate, but it does not speak for everyone...  TNG Romulan and Reman aesthetic is as such that they do "cross the line", because it is evident on screen, that by that time (at least for them), they can make their ships in such a way as to blend their respective cultural and artistic aesthetics with their functional ones.  You may not like it, but you can preserve your ideology for your own models    .  Besides, Fiction is just that, Fiction, as such, I wouldn't get all hot and heated about form vs function, especially in Trek. 

[marstone]

You may not like it, but you can preserve your ideology for your own models    .  Besides, Fiction is just that, Fiction, as such, I wouldn't get all hot and heated about form vs function, especially in Trek.

Hmm, this is the reason that unless I like a design I don't say anything.  Many really don't want a critic on the work.

[Atolm-Rising]

You may not like it, but you can preserve your ideology for your own models    .  Besides, Fiction is just that, Fiction, as such, I wouldn't get all hot and heated about form vs function, especially in Trek.

Hmm, this is the reason that unless I like a design I don't say anything.  Many really don't want a critic on the work.

I wasn't addressing his critique, which was made, I was addressing his views  on the design.
Critiquing someone's work is simple matter of addressing the work, which Gow did, but then he voiced the "absurdity" of style, which is no longer about the work, its about what he prefers and nothing else can fit (personal preference, which is fine, but the way it was presented was shallow and pointless).
So Critique = good
Rant = bad
make sense?

[marstone]

You may not like it, but you can preserve your ideology for your own models    .  Besides, Fiction is just that, Fiction, as such, I wouldn't get all hot and heated about form vs function, especially in Trek.

Hmm, this is the reason that unless I like a design I don't say anything.  Many really don't want a critic on the work.

I wasn't addressing his critique, which was made, I was addressing his views  on the design.
Critiquing someone's work is simple matter of addressing the work, which Gow did, but then he voiced the "absurdity" of style, which is no longer about the work, its about what he prefers and nothing else can fit (personal preference, which is fine, but the way it was presented was shallow and pointless).
So Critique = good
Rant = bad
make sense?

Makes sense but, part of a critic can also be the basis of it.  It is like a critic of a movie, technically it may be the best one out there (like the work on the model) but if it isn't appealing to the eye or senses (the design) it will get a bad critic.  Everyone has different tastes that is true.  I am one along the lines I don't like the bird Rom and Reman ship style.  His statement to me seemed more along the lines of that a ships that is so designed to look like a bird, is an unlikely thing in the ST overall.  Just like I dislike klingon BOP's they are only in there because the script got leaked out and they reshot the inside stuff with Klingon instead of Romulan, but sense the CGI stuff was done and costs more the reshooting some scenes Klingons got a BOP to use.

So as said, I try not to critic, as it will include a personal opinion.  Now I have said, damn, nice ship wish I liked that style.  I have always been impressed with the modelers here, they are awesome, but sadly I will probably only use a few of the ships as most are "crap" style, in my tastes for fantasy ships.  Last word, he could have stated it better tho.

[Atolm-Rising]

Exactly.
I agree with you.   Just remember that Tact is everything... how something is presented is just as important as the something itself, otherwise you sound(doesn't mean you are) like a fanatic.  Thus, instead of helping with constructive criticisms, you are getting rants of personal bs that doesn't apply to anything, and one word "says nothings", like "awesome", or ''sucks".  Both say nothing but a person's like or dislike of something, rather than offer a critique, or a well thought-out opinion.

[KBF_Gow]

You may not like it, but you can preserve your ideology for your own models    .  Besides, Fiction is just that, Fiction, as such, I wouldn't get all hot and heated about form vs function, especially in Trek.

Hmm, this is the reason that unless I like a design I don't say anything.  Many really don't want a critic on the work.

I wasn't addressing his critique, which was made, I was addressing his views  on the design.
Critiquing someone's work is simple matter of addressing the work, which Gow did, but then he voiced the "absurdity" of style, which is no longer about the work, its about what he prefers and nothing else can fit (personal preference, which is fine, but the way it was presented was shallow and pointless).
So Critique = good
Rant = bad
make sense?

You said amazing, I said absurd.   Simply polar opinion viewpoints on the design if extruded feathers were added.

Not much has changed in this forum,  same stuff, different names.   The designer of this ship made a thread about views vs commentary and the fact nothing is ever said.

Being called shallow and pointless is a prime example.  Always the same.  Make a statement about a design, and you get a statement regarding your personal character.  My opinion is the opposite of Atolm, therefore, it cannot be "well thought out".  He assumes I am all hot about the issue, and nothing is farther from the truth.   

I stand by my comments.  There is a fine line between presenting a technically viable starship design on a bird motif, and presenting a gigantic robot bird.   I didn't care for Ricks Knox's RBC for the same reason, and it isn't Reman, its just bird gone too far.

shrug.

[Atolm-Rising]

Oh BTW Pep, i like your interpretation of that ventral hull structure on my ship, very cool

[Atolm-Rising]

You may not like it, but you can preserve your ideology for your own models    .  Besides, Fiction is just that, Fiction, as such, I wouldn't get all hot and heated about form vs function, especially in Trek.

Hmm, this is the reason that unless I like a design I don't say anything.  Many really don't want a critic on the work.

I wasn't addressing his critique, which was made, I was addressing his views  on the design.
Critiquing someone's work is simple matter of addressing the work, which Gow did, but then he voiced the "absurdity" of style, which is no longer about the work, its about what he prefers and nothing else can fit (personal preference, which is fine, but the way it was presented was shallow and pointless).
So Critique = good
Rant = bad
make sense?

You said amazing, I said absurd.   Simply polar opinion viewpoints on the design if extruded feathers were added.

Not much has changed in this forum,  same stuff, different names.   The designer of this ship made a thread about views vs commentary and the fact nothing is ever said.

Being called shallow and pointless is a prime example.  Always the same.  Make a statement about a design, and you get a statement regarding your personal character. 

shrug.

in Balok's voice... LOL

[Fedman NCC-3758]

If I may, just a thought.   How about a slight Klingon influence to the dorsal.

I'm thinking a more "muscular" look.

[KBF_Gow]

Seriously, you want a discussion based solely on the merits of the construction of designs and not on the overall artistic impression of same?

Opinions always weigh in, in all arts and crafts, and I consider this to be one.

Paintings aren't judged that way,  Neither is furniture.  Overall aesthetics have always been a part of the mix along with technical competence.

There will always be a component of a person's individual likes and dislikes in a critique.  Critique that stifles that is not critique.

Even comments on a purely technical basis are determined by the individual.  Commentary on the size of a fed deflector dish is still based on a persons individual feelings on how much trektech really matters to them.

Narrowing commentary to purely non offensive, non personal opinions means "no comment", which is exactly the situation this board has had since it's inception on the Taldren site.

And I am done, since this is purely a fanatical rant by a shallow and pointless troublemaker.. amirite?

[KBF_Gow]

Well.  I made a comment about a design trend, one that goes way back, and one I made when Rick created his RBC for the D2 Pack.   Not that it matters now.

For that, I get a pile of personal garbage, comments about pettyness and pointlessness, fanatacism, tactlessness, getting all hot, ranting, et al.

Atolm gets... nothing for spouting that crap at me, over a simple difference in artistic viewpoints.  Baloks Voice LOL?

Cliquish Hypocrisy.  I won't stand for a double standard or being condescendingly lectured at for having an opinion while others are allowed free rein in their commentary.

So, my ships are gone, and so am I.   I will lurk, like so many others.

Fun while it lasted.

[Fedman NCC-3758]

How utterly amazing and pathetic at the same time.

I'm taking my wittle ships and leaving.  So there.


How about we just enjoy the game and when one is slighted it just gets ignored.

Or is that asking way to much of adults?


If it is, then be well and happy trails.  ::tips hat::

[Atolm-Rising]

Fedman is right.
We should be having a ball.
Gow, you want to bounce, then bounce... but if you do not realize the simple ideology that its, "not what you say, but how you say it"  that changes a critique into an opinionated statement, then you should go and lurk.  I try not to get into heated BS in this and many communities, as I understand that typing a reply is not the most efficient means of communication, and a lot of the nuances seem to get lost, so I let it slide (hell it has even happen to me and gotten me bitten back).  But I won't let silly statements about art become commonplace.  If you personally like something a certain way, then offer up the suggestions, but remember that the artist will most likely already have the vision that they are going for, and they may not be asking for advice on changing it other than minor things like colour, or hard points, size etc...  I offered the, 'extrude some feathers if possible' comment, because me being the original designer, envisioned something along those lines, but as its not my mesh, Pep has all the right to follow his feelings on how he wants the design.  The ship already is obviously too Bird/Bat-like to be changed into something simpler or to fit previous eras, thus making Gow's comment shallow, because he didn't take the design's ideology into consideration.  I don't have a problem with a person liking things a certain way, as so do I, and many, many times my ideology will and has conflicted with others, but that doesn't make it a "line that has been crossed all to often", or "Japanese anime".  So yes it is an opinion, but it was not articulated well. thus coming out opinionated.  Nothing that I have stated has not been stated many, many times... by me and others here.  This is an old issue, so lets please move on.
Again Gow, if you feel you need to pack-up and bounce, then do it.  But don't do it because feel you have been personally attacked, as that was not my intent, and I apologize, if My Balok's laugh offended you when I was just trying to make light of the situation before it got to this level.  Its not a "double standard", but rather it is the standard, that critiquing and even more so, constructive criticism are helpful, but if the tone of the statement reads poorly, then it will be perceived as such.
So don't leave Gow, Keep making the ships how You envision them. 

BTW my sincere apologies to everyone in this thread, and especially to Pepperman, for dragging this, this far.

[pepperman]

Lots of good dialog...which can be good in my opinion.  I never take offense to this stuff becasue as a moddler I am always trying to improve.  Rest assured I do this to have fun.  Here's what I am thinking for a way ahead for these beastie:  Keep the version I have to date, lose the lower hull and release to the commmunity as it is low poly version (less than 2000). Only cosmetic additions remain.   Improve the SFC/BC version cause I am interested in seeing the effect of the raised panels on the wings.  I don't think the current version can be jury rigged to make that happen.  So along those lines does this seem reasonable WRT to the wings.

Along the lines of the layered concept, what I hear you all say is that the wing should be setup so that it depicts varies thicknesses for the sections.  In the diagram below, I have marked out five sections for this layering effect.
Section A is the thinnest section
Section A is thinner than section B
Section B is thinner than section C
Section C is thinner than section D
Section D is thinner than section E
Section E (the engine section) is the thickest section.

Is this closer to what you had in mind FW and Atolm?

I beleive that Section B and C could easliy be combined!

Thoughts and opinions welcome....also a few shots to show how it looks without all the panel lines draw, a few disruptor cannons added and the lower hull removed.

Good news though...I am loving working on the Reman ship...anymore Reman designs out there.  lol

[marstone]

Well.  I made a comment about a design trend, one that goes way back, and one I made when Rick created his RBC for the D2 Pack.   Not that it matters now.

For that, I get a pile of personal garbage, comments about pettyness and pointlessness, fanatacism, tactlessness, getting all hot, ranting, et al.

Atolm gets... nothing for spouting that crap at me, over a simple difference in artistic viewpoints.  Baloks Voice LOL?

now, I believe Gow is going alittle overboard on this but I do agree with his point.  Being that when you post a wip you are usually not looking for comments on how to make your model in the technical sense.  You are looking for the "how does this look and what does it need" replies.  So when you get a response that said "I think the design is horrible" that person is jumped on, but if you say "Damn, nice design, maybe add" that is considered a good response.  I have seen some ships I could never comment on as I truely hated the design, can't give a do this to make it better because I think the bit bucket is the place for the ship. 

One person truly voiced his opinion on the ship and did get rode hard for it.  I can understand a person trying to say "you are wasting your time and talent on a piece of crap".  I used to give true artistic advice to people.  I had people I knew, and some friends ask my advise on a drawing they are working on.  I would say usually "It is very good, but . . . your depth is off here, the hand needs rework here, and the leg is out of proportion with the body in this way.  Then I would get back a quip like, well can you do better.  I would answer "no, that is why I don't draw anymore".  I find that most people want to hear the good and not even a constructive critic that would make them better.

[Terradyhne]

Pepper i like this Reman bird you made 
@Atolm i like this Reman design you have drawn, i think you have a talent for this race 

regarding to this rant between KBF_GOW and what Atolm said about his comment, i have to say its not nice to hear someone saying that he thinks your designs are bad, ugly or something you deffinetly don't like but for what are Forums done than hear what other think and not to get your work praised into heaven, thats dissembling even if you ask for constructive criticism and surely it should not end in flamewars
i think if you or i can't take what other say about our work or comments than we could do what KBF_GOW did but this is no option for me as this makes the way for the dissemblers and ignorant beeings in this world 

sorry Pepper for hijacking your WIP thread but i must have said something to this problem

[pepperman]

Okay mates, this version (aka a battle cruiser) is mostly done.  As it is not the carrier verion, it does not include the lower hull or what I presume to be the impulse engines (thingies on the top).

What I plan to do is continue to flesh this model out some more and incorporate the raise panel effect the Falllen Warrior spoke about.  That version will include the lower hull, the impulse engines (?) and be setup as the carrier.  I dodn't envision too much change regarding the texturing so the two ships should be fairly consistent.  I do anticipate the poly count on the carrier version climbing considerably though.  I will post a mock up of the wing to help ensure it is going it the right direction.  I tried a quick take on it last night and wasn't too disappointed.  The height proportions still need some tweaking.  Okay, enough rambling.  Here's a couple of screenshots of the nearly completed ship.

[Shadowfleet]

Sweetness. My offer to convert still stands.

[pepperman]

Shadowfleet, I will be sending her your way once the final tweaks are made:  A 3ds file and bmp files should work for you right.

What size should we make this beastie and what should be name her?

[pepperman]

Shadowfleet...the 3ds and texture files have been sent your way.

[pepperman]

Okay mates, anyone have any suggestions regarding a story line for the battle cruiser version, a good name for her, or thoughts on size.   Shadowfleet is going to get her ready for you all but a little help is desired.

[Atolm-Rising]

Nice work!
I designated her Reaper-Class, but that's up to you, as it is technically a variation on the design, maybe scythe?

[Shadowfleet]

I've got her, added some illums and am ready fro HP/DP. I'd like some suggestions about stats and abck story for the read me. One thought I had was to make her a stock replacemnet for one of the Rommies or even the Scimitar itself - since i think this beuty looks way better.

ANy thoughts, or have I lost all respect around here because I like Star Trek Online 

[pepperman]

Since I don't have SFC, I don't even know what it might replace.  But I did set her up for Armada and here is what I went with as far as name and a little background.  It isn't much though.  I placed medium pulse dispuptors on the outside wings, two heavy pulse disruptors under the head and a bank of four photon torpodeo launches under the belly of the beastie/

* Name: Reman Scythe Class Battle Cruiser

Introduction

After the colonization of Crateris, the Reman Scythe Class battle cruiser was built in secret
with the aid of the Tal Shair.  The Scythe Class incorportes technology and weaponary from the
Scimatar program.  Multiple pulse disruptor cannons and photon torpedo launchers make her quite
formable in battle.   

[Kreeargh]

Since I don't have SFC, I don't even know what it might replace.  But I did set her up for Armada and here is what I went with as far as name and a little background.  It isn't much though.  I placed medium pulse dispuptors on the outside wings, two heavy pulse disruptors under the head and a bank of four photon torpodeo launches under the belly of the beastie/

* Name: Reman Scythe Class Battle Cruiser

Introduction

After the colonization of Crateris, the Reman Scythe Class battle cruiser was built in secret
with the aid of the Tal Shair.  The Scythe Class incorportes technology and weaponary from the
Scimatar program.  Multiple pulse disruptor cannons and photon torpedo launchers make her quite
formable in battle.

Beautifull production and creation of the Reman class.

[pepperman]

Okay, work has begun on a tiered wing version with raise "feathers".  Let me know what you think.  Poly count is going be high 10Kish at least....can SFC handle that?

[pepperman]

A quick look at the new wing layout with the tiered and raised effect applied.  Wings will be beefier in appearance.  Poly count approaching 10K with any attept made at the thrusters.

[FoaS_XC]

I agree with FW. The rear edges of the wings should probably be thinner than the leading edges. I'm not sure if milkshape has an easy way of doing this. If not, let me know - I can throw a quick FFD mod on there and taper it in about 45 seconds.

[pepperman]

If there is an easy way in Milkshape I am not aware of it.  FoaS, , what do you need from me to run this script you spoke of.

[FoaS_XC]

You need 3ds Max, lol.

FFD = Free Form Deformation. It's a cage that gets laid over your model, and if you move points on that cage the shape of the model gets deformed.

[pepperman]

So if I exported the wing out in 3ds you could taper it relatively easy?  If so, PM me your email addy and I will export the wing out for a test drive.

[FoaS_XC]

I'll just leave this right here

[pepperman]

Looks good indeed

[FoaS_XC]

Did you get the file that I sent back to you?

[pepperman]

Yes, I have it.  Your help is much appreciated.  It would have taken a lot of effort in Milkshape to have done this.

[pepperman]

Okay, I took a second hack at the lower hull.  FW/Atolm...do you like this version better?

[Atolm-Rising]

Awesome!
that's a phenomenal idea mate!