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#### _Rondo_GE The OutLaw

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##### Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2005, 09:56:27 am »
You'll like Win Xp way more than Win ME.. no chashing or blue screens, easy system restores, more stable, better application memory management, etc..

Win ME was listed by everyone who has used Win 98SE and Win XP as the bastard child of Microsoft.

when you install Win XP, make sure to install the Network install of Service Pack 2, it is a 266 MB DL, the Windows update Service Pack 2 is only a partial package and causes 1 in 5 PC's to screw up.

the Service Pack 2 DL location you should use is :

This should be the first update you should get for XP.. then go to Windows Updates web site and use Custom Install.. get any and all available updates.. you may have to go back 2 or 3 times to get all the updates since some updates require a restart... and some updates may not show up until other components are installed.

I would also recommend getting a Geforce FX 5200 with 128 mb vid memory.. they are an older card, by WAY better than Geforce 3.. Geforce 3 and Geforce 4 are only DirectX 8 cards, they can not render DirectX 9 code sets. Geforce FX series or the new Geforce FX 6800 series are designed for DirectX 9.

Doing a search for the Geforce FX 5200 card, the cheapest one I could find online is $54.00, however I think you can get them even cheaper on ebay. ebay has the cards going from$ 4.99 and up and different versions of the cards.. some companies have the buy it now option which have a set purchase price.. some are listed at $45... the FX cards are cheaper than what people think.. the newest standard for graphics is the Geforce 6800 Ultra. these cards make Geforce II, III and IV look like they were made back in the stone ages when it comes to playback of DVDs and games.. anyhow, just thought you should know.. a Geforce III or IV is not going to work with any new games coming out as many games require a minimum of a DirectX 9 video card, which would start with the Geforce FX card series. hope that this helps. mucho gracias #### Redshift the Kook • Nondescript • Lt. • Posts: 971 • Gender: ##### Re: What is Directdraw? « Reply #21 on: February 26, 2005, 02:37:37 pm » I agree with Pestalence. Win ME is awful, probably the worst MS operating system they made, (apart from Win 3.1). Win XP is much more optimised for modern gaming anyway. If you're thinking of upgrading to a GF 3 you must have a very old card, which card do you have? There are modern cards out there that are very good for gaming in terms of compatibility but are dirt cheap and although their performance tends be not great compared to the top of the line cards around it will still be better than the card you have right now. All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being obvious. #### Elvis • Lt. Junior Grade • Posts: 322 ##### Re: What is Directdraw? « Reply #22 on: February 26, 2005, 07:37:05 pm » http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/whql/policies/testing.mspx That could be an interesting site for a couple people here. It seems that MS does indeed charge sometimes for driver certification, but I wouldn't call the fees "hefty". Payment for work done should be expected. There is actually a good reason for NVidia not to have WHQL signed drivers for machines running 95,98, or ME and I'd bet a hundred dollars right now that it has something to do with those OSs not being supported any longer. There are a lot of drivers out there that aren't certified. The latest drivers for my Audigy 2ZS aren't certified. Got no idea why but my machine isn't adversly affected. Did you try removing all the old games that were installed? #### toasty0 • Application.Quit(); • Captain • Posts: 8045 • Gender: ##### Re: What is Directdraw? « Reply #23 on: February 26, 2005, 10:21:10 pm » Oh yeah, and just how much is that "very hefty" sum? Honestly, I didn't it cost anything. I know to get the winlogo on your software (considered anf endorsement form MS) you only need to pass their standards test which to the best of mny knowledge cost nada. Jerry So you are sure that Microsoft does the testing and signatures out of the goodness of their hearts and charge nothing? You think that even though it is free companies like nVidia and ATi just can't be bothered to get driver updates signed by Micirosoft? I don't. Microsoft likes money way too much to do so. Here is a link to a site for a company that does pretesting to check and see if Microsoft would approve them. This testing is not guaranteed to result in the Microsoft signing. Price quote: Quote How much does it cost? “Designed for Windows” tests differ in price range based on product type and associated logo requirements. Generally a full test runs from about €600 up to €3000 per test. Why would there be numerous companies ( I found a number and quit looking once one listed prices online) with a pay pretesting service if Microsofts service were free? Why would anyone pay for the pretest that doesn't even guarantee that Microsofts testing will pass you unless the Microsoft test is expensive? How many times does a company like nVidea or ATi upgrade drivers in the lifecycyle of a device? How many times do you think that they want to pay Microsoft for the priviledge? How many times do you think they want to wait for Microsofts blessing to issue a bugfix for a driver? Sorry toasty but Microsoft does charge for this. To get the Logo you also have to pass all the (paid) tests as well. I didn't say they didn't. I said, "Honestly, I didn't it cost anything. I know to get the winlogo on your software (considered anf endorsement form MS) you only need to pass their standards test which to the best of mny knowledge cost nada. ". Now about those HEFTY fees...what are they again? Jerry MCTS: SQL Server 2005 | MCP: Windows Server 2003 | MCTS: Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist | MCT: Microsoft Certified Trainer | MOS: Microsoft Office Specialist 2003 | VSP: VMware Sales Professional | MCTS: Vista #### Dash Jones • Sub-Commander of the Dark Side • Captain • Posts: 6477 • Gender: ##### Re: What is Directdraw? « Reply #24 on: February 27, 2005, 12:50:30 pm » I asked my uncle about this and his reply went something like this. "He didn't use a NOCD exe or a crack and then try to either update or patch the game? It sounds almost as if he did something to the program and then tried to do an update. This sounds like a problem similar to what occurred with version pre 1.30 of NWN on some ATI and a few Nvidia machines where people did some modification of the NWN program (normally a NOCD or other item but it varied) and then it went back to the registry and other files in recurrence." If his description fits what you did, part of it is security against hacking and other items, as well as just a general flaw. You might want to make sure ALL signs of NWN are off your system if reinstalling (including the registry files), then update the drivers of your system, and then do a reinstall. Not absolutely positive this will do everything, but it's similar to some bugs, very similar to the bug listed above, however, there were several other bugs that also did the same thing almost. The one above I gather from my uncle was just more abundant in his experience. "All hominins are hominids, but not all hominids are hominins." "Is this a Christian perspective? Now where in the Bible does it say if someone does something stupid you should shoot them in the face?" ------- We have whale farms in Jersey. They're called McDonald's. There is no "I" in team. There are two "I"s in Vin Diesel. screw you, team. #### _Rondo_GE The OutLaw • Commodore • Posts: 10018 • Gender: ##### Re: What is Directdraw? « Reply #25 on: March 01, 2005, 02:57:54 pm » I asked my uncle about this and his reply went something like this. "He didn't use a NOCD exe or a crack and then try to either update or patch the game? It sounds almost as if he did something to the program and then tried to do an update. This sounds like a problem similar to what occurred with version pre 1.30 of NWN on some ATI and a few Nvidia machines where people did some modification of the NWN program (normally a NOCD or other item but it varied) and then it went back to the registry and other files in recurrence." If his description fits what you did, part of it is security against hacking and other items, as well as just a general flaw. You might want to make sure ALL signs of NWN are off your system if reinstalling (including the registry files), then update the drivers of your system, and then do a reinstall. Not absolutely positive this will do everything, but it's similar to some bugs, very similar to the bug listed above, however, there were several other bugs that also did the same thing almost. The one above I gather from my uncle was just more abundant in his experience. I loaded the CEP before i loaded the drivers...but I thought the CEP only added content to the game and did not screw with the game engine. Thing is I loaded from an official site. But I like you logic. I think that has to get me an answer. Are there any good registry cleaners out there that clear out fragmented and useless registry info? Used to be... The latest on this by the way became a comedy of errors... (or misfortune)... I went out and got the GFORCE 5200 board (65$ off the shelve and boxed at PC CLub)...  a total mistake since after installation it caused a widows protection error (msmouse.vxd might be the culprit).  I almost think the problemn was a virus but I cleared the system a few days before any of this so I'm not sure.

Well after 20 hours of this I about had it.  You can start to develop post blue screen traumatic stress disorder if you can't fix a problem and it seems you keep digging yourself in deeper.   Brought my machine to my friendly "computer dude for a fee" place and told em to clear the error...install the board (if compatible and I suspect it isn’t with WINME) or if not keep the old GFORCE II and clear the prob... in the meantime I am raiding my summer vacation money and am gonna get me a new system with WIN XP...I'll bump that system up into my daughters room and let her load those  nasty little games til the cows come home.

I just think it's time to cut loose from WINME.  This OP SYS is causing all kinds of complications...installing the new board is a case in point.  I have upgraded video cards maybe 4 times in my life and never had a problem before this one.

You can get a generic system here in San Diego pretty cheap; you can get a midrange machine for about 450-550 and a barebones sahred video crap box for 189 dols new.   You can also get a muscle box for under 1000.00 dols unless you get the GFORCE 6800 which will cost ya.    I already got WINXP and all kinds of monitors.  Place is starting to look like a computer junk yard (I've owned over 30 boxes in my life).

I'm looking for a system capable of playing Morrowwind Oblivion and NWN2 when they come out next year so I don't want to by a bottom end system.  Need to get smart on the new and old (but good) generation of motherboards.    Asus seems to be quite popular around here.  Also there is a lot of talk about boards that can hold "PCI express" slots...any advantage to using this capability?

Woott!!!! What timing!!!

The dude just called me up.  What he said was that they had to remove all the drivers from the system (back to windows drivers) and reinstall the board.  So that got it up and runnin with the 5200 GFORCE....$55.00...sounds painless to me. I think I'm gonna have my son's system switched over to WINXP this weekend...that's our second system in the house byut I see this problem coming up again...he is running DirectX 8.whatever under a GFORCE 4 MX ...his site. Also I'm gonna watch how this system performs to determine whether I should migrate over to Xp on it and keep it or just buy a new system and bump it unconnected into my daughters room. But I would sure like to use that vacation money...for my vacation. If NWN dont run I'm just gonna take Dash's advice and do no more tweaks. The way I see it there have been tweaks enough on this system as is... « Last Edit: March 01, 2005, 03:25:33 pm by Rondo_GE The Humble » #### _Rondo_GE The OutLaw • Commodore • Posts: 10018 • Gender: ##### Re: What is Directdraw? « Reply #26 on: March 01, 2005, 03:07:20 pm » I asked my uncle about this and his reply went something like this. "He didn't use a NOCD exe or a crack and then try to either update or patch the game? It sounds almost as if he did something to the program and then tried to do an update. This sounds like a problem similar to what occurred with version pre 1.30 of NWN on some ATI and a few Nvidia machines where people did some modification of the NWN program (normally a NOCD or other item but it varied) and then it went back to the registry and other files in recurrence." If his description fits what you did, part of it is security against hacking and other items, as well as just a general flaw. You might want to make sure ALL signs of NWN are off your system if reinstalling (including the registry files), then update the drivers of your system, and then do a reinstall. Not absolutely positive this will do everything, but it's similar to some bugs, very similar to the bug listed above, however, there were several other bugs that also did the same thing almost. The one above I gather from my uncle was just more abundant in his experience. I did not try to crack the program but I did install the CEP...which is supposed to be an "official" upgrade to the game. Hmmmm..... #### Redshift the Kook • Nondescript • Lt. • Posts: 971 • Gender: ##### Re: What is Directdraw? « Reply #27 on: March 02, 2005, 02:41:20 pm » Hey, it's cool you got your system up and running. To be frank I was worried that the card you bought might not be compatible with your motherboard - most modern graphics cards are AGP x8 and older motherboards can't handle them. Luckily that doesn't seem to be the case with you. If you're looking for a new system soon I would recomend an Abit motherboard, but then I'm a bit biased towards overclocking, something Abit's are very good for. But even if you're never brave enough to try overclocking, a board that can handle higher than normal clock speeds is obviously going to be pretty stable at stock levels so you might want to go for one. PCI Express isn't quite as groundbreaking as it sounds. They are designed to replace both AGP slots and the old PCI slots so you'll get twice the bandwidth of an AGP x8 slot, (AGP x16 obviously ). This means that your motherboard can send data to your PCIe card much faster.. The thing is, most graphics solutions, (maybe excepting on board graphics chipsets), have memory and graphics processors built together on the card so your graphics card shouldn't need to get fresh data from other parts of your system to display stuff on your monitor. PCIe is obviously good for decreasing the time it takes to load levels and I guess would be good for very high definition video playback, (I think that requires your main processor to decode stuff). I could be wrong, I'm only a layman so if anyone knows about PCIe in more detail then correct me. All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being obvious. #### _Rondo_GE The OutLaw • Commodore • Posts: 10018 • Gender: ##### Re: What is Directdraw? « Reply #28 on: March 03, 2005, 03:39:32 pm » You'll like Win Xp way more than Win ME.. no chashing or blue screens, easy system restores, more stable, better application memory management, etc.. Win ME was listed by everyone who has used Win 98SE and Win XP as the bastard child of Microsoft. when you install Win XP, make sure to install the Network install of Service Pack 2, it is a 266 MB DL, the Windows update Service Pack 2 is only a partial package and causes 1 in 5 PC's to screw up. the Service Pack 2 DL location you should use is : http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30-8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en This should be the first update you should get for XP.. then go to Windows Updates web site and use Custom Install.. get any and all available updates.. you may have to go back 2 or 3 times to get all the updates since some updates require a restart... and some updates may not show up until other components are installed. I would also recommend getting a Geforce FX 5200 with 128 mb vid memory.. they are an older card, by WAY better than Geforce 3.. Geforce 3 and Geforce 4 are only DirectX 8 cards, they can not render DirectX 9 code sets. Geforce FX series or the new Geforce FX 6800 series are designed for DirectX 9. Doing a search for the Geforce FX 5200 card, the cheapest one I could find online is$54.00, however I think you can get them even cheaper on ebay.

ebay has the cards going from $4.99 and up and different versions of the cards.. some companies have the buy it now option which have a set purchase price.. some are listed at$45...

the FX cards are cheaper than what people think.. the newest standard for graphics is the Geforce 6800 Ultra. these cards make Geforce II, III and IV look like they were made back in the stone ages when it comes to playback of DVDs and games..

anyhow, just thought you should know.. a Geforce III or IV is not going to work with any new games coming out as many games require a minimum of a DirectX 9 video card, which would start with the Geforce FX card series.

hope that this helps.

Everything is up and running esp NWNs!  Horray!!  What a journey...thanks everyyone.

Wow!  This Geforce FX 5200 with 128 rocks...it's like playing a new game.   All these colors i didn't know were there.  man I gotta get one of thes for my son and upgrade his machine.

After my system came back fron the shop DirexdtX 7 was oniut. NWN load Direcxt X 8 and I have yet to load Direct X 9.

Dash's advice helped the most for NWNs...I did that program for two years without a hitch.   Maybe my kid mesed it up and maybe not siucne i had a ton of mods loaded on that thing from the Hall of Fame plus I loaded the CEP ...  a kind of sort of tested semni-official type mod that adds a whole lot of content, new heads, graphics, items etc to NWN.

Right now I'm patched to 1.65 but no CEP yet.  I'm leary about DX 9 but probably it will be ok to load it.  Then I'll load the CEP and ONLY any mods I plan to play in the future.

But even without DX 9 this board rocks!

Hmmm maybe I should reload Morrowind and see what how it looks...muhahahahaha.....

#### Pestalence_XC

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##### Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2005, 03:44:20 pm »
You should see how well the board rocks under DirectX 9.0c.. DirectX 9.0c incorporates advanced shadowing effects and better graphical rendering that previous DirectX versions do not have. Since the FX 5200 is designed for DirectX 9.0c, it should have no problem rendering the new components of Direct X.. now the only games to take advantage of DirectX 9.0c would have to be written under the Direct X 9.0c SDK, however you will see a marked improvement in frame rate and smoothness on older games...
"You still don't get it, do you?......That's what he does. That's all he does! You can't stop him! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

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#### Pestalence_XC

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##### Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2005, 03:48:33 pm »
Just take your system to Windows Update and get all the updates available.. DirectX 9.0c should be one of the updates available.
"You still don't get it, do you?......That's what he does. That's all he does! You can't stop him! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

Member :
Xenocorp / Dynaverse.net Moderator & Beta Test Team
SFC 4 Project QA Coordinator
Taldren Beta Test Team
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