Topic: Help for a friend please

[Clark Kent]

I have a friend.  This friend wants a computer.  She wants this computer to be portable.  She wants this portable computer to be a laptop.  This is about as far as we've gotten.  I told her to make a list, in order of priority, of what she wants to do with this new computer.  I also asked her to list other info, such as how long she plans to use the computer before she replaces it, where she plans to take it (to estimate the abuse level it will take), and other useful info, such as budget.  She's working on it, so that leaves me with my question:
I am thinking of the different lines to present her with, and will eventually whittle it down to a handful of laptops to present to her to choose from.  The ones that immediately come to mind are:
HP
Compaq
Dell
Gateway
Alienware
Apple

I'd appreciate opinions on other lines, and opinions on the current lines I just mentioned.  Also, warranty is an issue.  I personally feel that store warranties are a waste, and would prefer manufacturer warranty, but other opinions are welcome as well.

[SkyFlyer]

I have a friend. This friend wants a computer. She wants this computer to be portable. She wants this portable computer to be a laptop. This is about as far as we've gotten. I told her to make a list, in order of priority, of what she wants to do with this new computer. I also asked her to list other info, such as how long she plans to use the computer before she replaces it, where she plans to take it (to estimate the abuse level it will take), and other useful info, such as budget. She's working on it, so that leaves me with my question:
I am thinking of the different lines to present her with, and will eventually whittle it down to a handful of laptops to present to her to choose from. The ones that immediately come to mind are:
HP
Compaq
Dell
Gateway
Alienware
Apple (unless it is for audio/video editing)

I'd appreciate opinions on other lines, and opinions on the current lines I just mentioned. Also, warranty is an issue. I personally feel that store warranties are a waste, and would prefer manufacturer warranty, but other opinions are welcome as well.

I am also a little warey of the compaq notebooks. I don't know how gateways support is now, but when my dad got a Pentium 1 133mhz about 11 years ago, we were very happy with their tech support (hard-drive and CD issues).

[Monty]

My g/f has a compaq laptop.

The battery died pretty much as soon as the waranty ran out!

But it did what it said on the tin. Anyone else i know with a compaq laptop is happy with it.

[Javora]

If she is on a budget then I would stay away from Alienware.  If she frequently shares files with Windows based systems or required to use Microsoft Office in her work then I would also stay away from Apple.  Dell offers an insurance program, although I have never had any luck with Dell you might have better luck with them than I did.  I would also check out Sony and IBM.  While IBM computers has been sold off, US service and support is still handled by IBM.  I think IBM (no pun intended) IBM also offers a insurance program as well.  Hope this helps.

[Pestalence_XC]

I have a friend. This friend wants a computer. She wants this computer to be portable. She wants this portable computer to be a laptop. This is about as far as we've gotten. I told her to make a list, in order of priority, of what she wants to do with this new computer. I also asked her to list other info, such as how long she plans to use the computer before she replaces it, where she plans to take it (to estimate the abuse level it will take), and other useful info, such as budget. She's working on it, so that leaves me with my question:
I am thinking of the different lines to present her with, and will eventually whittle it down to a handful of laptops to present to her to choose from. The ones that immediately come to mind are:
HP
Compaq
Dell
Gateway
Alienware
Apple

I'd appreciate opinions on other lines, and opinions on the current lines I just mentioned. Also, warranty is an issue. I personally feel that store warranties are a waste, and would prefer manufacturer warranty, but other opinions are welcome as well.

I have used 3 different laptop lines.. IBM, Sony, and Toshiba..

Out of performance, the Toshiba was the best, the second best, with great updates and CS was Sony, I'm not getting an IBM again, their CS is a pain.. the performance of a Toshiba is great (especially Media Center Edition systems), but their CS is lacking and they do not offer or support new hardware drivers.. Sony kept current drivers available, even if they were about a month out of date, they at least attempted to keep people's systems updated and their CS could direct you to sites where the current hardware drivers are...

If you get a laptop.. minimum of a P IV 2.8 Ghz with HT (not the P IV Mobile) with minimum of 512 memory, expand it to 1 GB memory, and make sure it has Win XP Media Center Edition 2005 on it.. Win XP MCE is Win XP Pro with a media package built in along with the system having a strong graphics card and TV Tuner capability.. it is the penicle of the Win XP line..

On my MCE systems, there was nothing I could not do as far as computing goes, so long as I kept it completely up to date from Windows Update web site using their custom scan and getting all available updates.

[Clark Kent]

If she is on a budget then I would stay away from Alienware.  If she frequently shares files with Windows based systems or required to use Microsoft Office in her work then I would also stay away from Apple.  Dell offers an insurance program, although I have never had any luck with Dell you might have better luck with them than I did.  I would also check out Sony and IBM.  While IBM computers has been sold off, US service and support is still handled by IBM.  I think IBM (no pun intended) IBM also offers a insurance program as well.  Hope this helps.

I hear what you're saying, but I have an apple laptop and I've never had any problems with transferring files on or off my iBook, so that doesn't work as a reason for me.  Don't worry though, once I see what she wants it for, I'll help her find a laptop based on the best value, and there are definately going to be more PC recomendations than Apple.
What was you experience with Dell exactly?

[Pestalence_XC]

Dell systems tend to break down right when their 1 year warranties run out...

[Javora]

I hear what you're saying, but I have an apple laptop and I've never had any problems with transferring files on or off my iBook, so that doesn't work as a reason for me.  Don't worry though, once I see what she wants it for, I'll help her find a laptop based on the best value, and there are definately going to be more PC recomendations than Apple.
What was you experience with Dell exactly?

I was thinking of more Apple specific file formats but then I haven't used an Apple in over a decade so things might have changed since then.  As for my experience with Dell... it was a living he||.  That desktop had two motherboards burn out, CPU burn out, Hard Drive burn out, and a Modem burn out.  Their system at the time would work as advertised since they shipped me a copy of out dated software.  Plus I had to do most of the hardware trouble shooting myself even though it was under the one year on-site warranty.  And that was before Dell shipped its call centers to India.  Now my experiences I think are extreme even for Dell.  But if you buy from Dell make sure you buy their "Business systems" as you will at least talk to someone from the US when you talk to Tech support.  Mind you I said when not if.   
Hope this helps.


Edit:  I forgot to say that the first motherboard burned out less than a week after I received shipment.

[Bonk]

Laptops are built to self destruct... (mainly with heat) buy the cheapest nastiest one possible, this way the losses and disappointment are minimal.

If I wanted a portable computer I'd look at the new Palms or Jornada's - or perhaps the tablet PCs.

[Darth Sidious]

Dont be afraid to check local computer stores (not big chains like Best Buy etc).  Some might have laptops - or at least work on them.

[Tus-XC]

toshibas are pretty good.  i would avoid dell personally.. thats what the academy issues us.  The darn thing cannot take the wear and tear a cadet puts it through.  that and the hd seem to crash alot

Rob

[Clark Kent]

As long as we're on the subject, I'll ask for something for myself.  Currently I am being put through schoolby a thrid party, who has also offered to buy me a new computer.  i'm leaning towards laptop, though am not against a desktop per say, and when I mentioned my STRONG preference for Apple computer, my voc counselor scowled, and it looks like a new computer fromt he route from me would be a *dun dun DUN* Dell.  "How strong is she set on this?"  you might ask?  She is on a first name basis with the dell rep in Texas, that's how strong.
Now, I'm not stupid, even if I do prefer Macs and will continue to use it as a primary computer, you think I'd turn down a brand new, free computer?
recomendations for me as well?

[Javora]

Never look a gift horse in the mouth.  If it breaks, we will figure out a way to get it fixed.  And if it needs replacement hardware I'm sure someone here can walk you through it.

[Clark Kent]

The inspiron notebooks seem to have 2 diferent classes of processor:
Intel celeron M   and
Intel Pentium M

What is the difference?

[E_Look]

Heh.

Get a HP 49G+.  It has 128 kb RAM, a SD card port, does calculus, can store a crapload of programs, runs with RPL, operates in RPN, has a rather complete constants library, equation library, handles units, has IR transmission capability, can isolate a Vulcan biosign on a Romulan starship, and a cable link to any USB enabled desktop PC.  I think one of there is on the 'Net even a Star Trek game for it... at least they did for the predecessor HP 48G.

[Dash Jones]

I believe Celeron is the poor man's version of the pentium.  I was under the impression they didn't make celerons anymore though?

Opinions may vary.

Celerons are very good for not overheating as long as you leave them at the default speed...and very stable processors overall, even if a tad slower than other processors of equal speed of other makes.

I'll see what I find when I look it up specifically on the M models.

[Dash Jones]

Here's a comparison between the two...

Architecture for both is 90nm with 130 nm process technology.

L2 cache for the Celeron is 1mb/512 whilst for the Pentium is 2mb/1mb

Celeron clock speed is 1.20 to 1.50 whilst the Pentium version is 1.50 to 2.13

Low Clock speed for the Pentium is 1.30 to 1.50 whilst the Celeron has Ultra low clock speed of 1Ghz and 900 mhz.

Front side bus is 400 mhz for both but the Pentium also can have 533 front side bus.

They both have various features some of which they share some of which they don't.

If you didn't really understand the numbers, basically as I read it, the Celeron is the former version or earlier version of the Pentium, hence the Celeron M is an earlier or downgraded version of the Pentium M...in a manner of speaking.

Basically, simply put, the Pentium Mhas more power overall.

[Dash Jones]

Heh.

Get a HP 49G+.  It has 128 kb RAM, a SD card port, does calculus, can store a crapload of programs, runs with RPL, operates in RPN, has a rather complete constants library, equation library, handles units, has IR transmission capability, can isolate a Vulcan biosign on a Romulan starship, and a cable link to any USB enabled desktop PC.  I think one of there is on the 'Net even a Star Trek game for it... at least they did for the predecessor HP 48G.

I haven't seen the startrek game, have seen the asteroids and other games.  Played minesweeper?  If it's the one I'm thinking of, you can also program it to turn on your TV as a remote control...or so I've been told...never actually tried it myself yet.

[Elvis]

I'm sure someone will correct me on this but the "M" stands for, well, duh....MOBILE. Ther pentium M chips are also referred to as Centrinos also, basically they are cpus which are desinged for portables, which means they are designed to run at lower voltages than their desktop counterparts which means you'll have a longer battery life with that class of processor. Celerons are just budget versions of pentiums. As far as things like L2 cache are concerned, more generally means faster, but for the average user who isn't gaming or video editing or sound editing L2 means basically very little. So your average user who is going to surf the web, use an office app or listen to music there probably not going to notice any difference  between a Cely and a Pentium.

What will make a difference especially with laptops and especially with the brands listed is more memory. So consider a less powerful processor to afford more memory, most come with 256MB these days but double that and the thing will feel faster.

I'm with Bonk, find the cheapest laptop with an "M" class processor, double the memory, get rid of "the bloat" and you'll bet set. I reference "the bloat" because most prebuilts from the large manufacturers come loaded with software, software that a lot of us don't need which loads at start up and slows the computer down. Me persoanlly I would buy from a shop like PC Club, where the software install would be at a minimum, and I would  get an actual copy of Windows Xp and not just a "restore' disk.  But the best deals are going to be found  at the large retailers.   

[Pestalence_XC]

The Mobile chips of the Pentium line are designed for less heat, yet at the same time to reduce heat, they reduce processing channels, thus making an overall slower chip..

Benchmarking a P IV 2.4 Desktop CPU on a laptop, then running the same bench mark using the P IV 2.4 Mobile CPU, the Desktop of the same speed outperformed the Mobile by 25%...

Doing the same benchmark of the desktop vs the Celeron 2.4 Ghz CPU, the desktop CPU outperformed the Celeron by 68%.. the same bench mark on the Centrino vs the desktop CPU, the Centrion was outclassed by 55%..

These tests were all done on the same laptop system which was running a 533 MHZ front bus..

Now if you get into Hyper Threading, the P IV Desktop with HT will outperform the Mobile HT chip by 29% on a 800 Mhz Front Bus laptop...

that was tested with the 2 chips at 2.8 GHZ each.

Anyhow... the Desktop P IV with HT is the ruler on the chips... However the heat factor is something to consider as after running the CPU at high cycles for short period of time makes the bottom of the laptop so hot that it will burn you if you are not careful.

The next step up is the Xeon chip, however there is not a laptop version of the Xeon chip..

[Clark Kent]

The next step up is the Xeon chip, however there is not a laptop version of the Xeon chip..

What is the probability that a xeon mobile chip will come out in the next couple/few months?

[Pestalence_XC]

Probability is next to 0 since the P IV Xeon is a Server CPU.. they don't make any standard desktops that will handle that chip.. You can custom build one.. but the cost alone for the CPU and Mother Board, you could buy an entire P IV 2.8 Ghz HT Dual CPU system with 512 MB DDR2 memory and 2 DVD burners running at 833 FBS... the system I describe is about $900 now.. that is the cost of just the motherboard and CPU for the latest edition of the Xeon set... Nothing else...

I severely doubt a Mobile version will come out.. Heck even the Intel 64 bit CPU will probably only match the Xeon capabilities when it comes out with Longhorn.

[Clark Kent]

What about Longhorn?  Isn't it scheduled to come out in the next few months?  What type of specs will be needed to run it?  To operate it comfortably?

[SkyFlyer]

no longhorn comes out in '06 iirc.

[Pestalence_XC]

I'm in MS Beta.. Longhorn is schedualed for Setp 2006 currently.. may be pushed back to Dec 2006..

Longhorn is designed for a 64 bit Hardware config.. complete 64 bit Motherboard and CPU and Vid Card and so forth.. however it supports 24 bit, 32 bit and 64 bit hardware / software..

16 bit or less software and hardware are not supported...

Should be a minimum of 256 MB DDR2 mem (512 MB DDR2 for most smooth performance while operating other programs inside the shell for stability.. namely for games) and a P IV with HT to run Longhorn on a 32 bit with 833 Mhz FSB... Unknown what the minimum specs are on a 64 bit system, MS has not stated as of yet. It has been tested on older systems and has run stabily, but it is not recommended as it makes the CPU work harder..

[Clark Kent]

Well, so much for waiting for longhorn.   
thanks

[Clark Kent]

What I have learned from skimming through the Dell site:
If you want a cheap notebook, they can do it, but it has next to nothing on it, and little capacity.  If you want a decent notebook, you better be willing to pay $2000-3000 at least.

[SkyFlyer]

http://www.emaxasp.com/ddccomp/notebook-main.asp

Check out the laptop. Not much ram, but you can upgrade it.
http://www.emaxasp.com/ddccomp/customize.asp?default=TRUE&configID=161

The video card isnt that great either, but it can run SFC with ease.