Slave Girls Mod Corrections

[Brezgonne]

Starting off with:

Kzinti DDL: It's incorrectly listed as a war destroyer which is causing it to cost about five times more than it should in the shipyard. THe base DDL is supposed to have range 30 disruptors. The firing arcs are supposed to be FA, NOT FA+L/R (Can't have everything). Now if you want to leave the arcs like that I'm sure the Kzinti players will be happy with it but it's technicly supposed to be FA. You already fixed the YIS date.

The CVE+ is missing it's other two drone racks.

Thats all I remember at the moment.

[Dizzy]

Lyran power refits and the argument over whether the Z-CD is supposed to thave a DC of 6 or 12.

[FPF-DieHard]

this is useless, send PMs.   This thread will get lost

[FPF-DieHard]

Lyran power refits and the argument over whether the Z-CD is supposed to thave a DC of 6 or 12.

Firesoul gave the Z-CD a 12 drone control because it has Scout sensors and would be able use these for the additional dorne control.

[Hexx]

this is useless, send PMs.   This thread will get lost

But we'll miss the flames 

[FPF-DieHard]

this is useless, send PMs.   This thread will get lost

But we'll miss the flames 

I know, Kroma and Judge were both good wingmen . . .

[Bonk]

I find it easier to manage such lists in one thread as opposed to PMs myself, it keeps everything in one place. Seemed to work for Firesoul well enough. I could move the thread to "Dynaverse II Materials, Resources and Info", rename it "Slave Girls Mod Corrections" and sticky it if that would help?

I often find myself wishing there was the ability to search PMs. With my archive of 1934 old PMs sometimes it gets pretty difficult to find old stuff with just the sort by sender or date features. I might write a PM search function at some point, I've found myself needing one enough times by now.

[Bonk]

this is useless, send PMs.   This thread will get lost

But we'll miss the flames 

I know, Kroma and Judge were both good wingmen . . .

Groan....    Bad pun. Bad DH. 

[Dizzy]

I also think the DDL is supposed to have only add6 racks till 75 when it gets B's. Should it have an M variant? Most other miraks seem to have them.

Also, the doomsday monsters are scenario specific and show up in the new crop of ED missions and should be taken out of the shiplist and replaced with Andromedans, Tholians, other monsters or whatever.

[Brezgonne]

Kzinti DDL:

like the other command units it should have the 2 C racks and 2 B racks from it's inital YIS date. It gets reloads with the Y175 refit and gets the ADD12 along with everyone else (that one's my screw up Diz; wasn't paying attention).

[Dfly]

B11, B11K, not in the list.

[Dizzy]

Damage control ratings need be checked.

Generally some ships have more and less damage control than other ships. So not all BC's have 15, not all DN's have 20. Discussing this...

But the ICCX is at 15, not 20 but is charged more X points. Mb make it 20.

Ideas...

C8V's give more drone racks?

Limit 1 fast cruiser per fleet.

Limit 1 escort per fleet unless escorting a Carrier.

Change Mirak CF to later FYA.

Phase out CS+ when NCL comes out.

DVL's are uber for their FYA's...

Remove commando ships .5 move cost and down. Remove commando ships altogether if ship capture/assignment feature isnt working.

K-WD5 model size too small.

Romulan list needs to be cleaned up a bit. SNAR is still showing in 2285.

Do the NHK and RHK have casual tender variants?

Does the RSUN and SUT have twin shuttle launch?

[FPF-DieHard]

C8V's give more drone racks?

Yes, make it more like the one we used in the GW series.  I don’t mind added more drone racks but we gotta playtest this thoroughly.   Last time we did this, it was fine compared to Feds and Kzinti but utterly owned the Hydrans do we gotta be careful.

We should replace to F-racks that we added for Scaterpack fuel with B-racks all around.

Change Mirak CF to later FYA.

the CF might be okay with the current FYA if the DC is reduced to 6.   Must play test.

Phase out CS+ when NCL comes out.

I’m cool with this.  There are other options that can be explored but I’ll do this first.

DVL's are uber for their FYA's...

All DNLs are a bit much, if you think the F-DVL is specificly bad, catagorize

Remove commando ships .5 move cost and down. Remove commando ships altogether if ship capture/assignment feature isnt working.

We should yank them all, they show up as AI way too often and nobody flew them anyway. 

K-WD5 model size too small.

There are abunch of Model size issue but this is the most blantantly obvious  

Romulan list needs to be cleaned up a bit. SNAR is still showing in 2285.

Yes, the CE is also a good joke also 

Do the NHK and RHK have casual tender variants?

They should, I’ll add them if they were left out

Does the RSUN and SUT have twin shuttle launch?

I can see this being a 2.   The Shuttle rate on some of the Gorn carriers is off to.   I’ll se that the same as the G-CC

Other notes:   

Gorn FYAs:   The Gorns don’t get the F torps on cruisers until 2275 because that is when they entered the General war.   2270 is a more realistic date.

X- Lights need more playtesting against each other.

The X-Droners are just silly,  the K-D5XD, Z-MDXD (or WTF it’s called) and the F-DGX need review and discussion.

FiCons:  Um, keep ‘em or can ‘em?

PF Flotilas.   I like them 

Fleeting in general needs to be discussed when we get a chance,   We should take a few days off to see out families and get some whores.

[762_XC]

YLA out ships without mech links when mech links come out. Missions tend to draw the linked variants anyway.

Yards need cleaning up - restrict freighters and unused HDW's, etc.

[Dizzy]

YLA out ships without mech links when mech links come out. Missions tend to draw the linked variants anyway.

Dont want to do this. It tends to make the difficulty of the mission too great. If every mission had casual tender Ai it'd drive me nuts.

Yards need cleaning up - restrict freighters and unused HDW's, etc.

Can't special out freighters. The server needs to build them. The gf settings can be adjusted so the shipyards arnt cluttered with them. They are so cheap in bpv that at even the lowest setting some are built. Deal.

[Dizzy]

Yes, make it more like the one we used in the GW series.  I don’t mind added more drone racks but we gotta playtest this thoroughly.   Last time we did this, it was fine compared to Feds and Kzinti but utterly owned the Hydrans do we gotta be careful.

Four F racks or four B racks? Hrmmm. Mb 6 F racks?

the ZCF might be okay with the current FYA if the DC is reduced to 6.   Must play test.

Ahhh, I like this idea. But I think 8 rear firing phasers are still pretty uber on that yfa.

There are other options that can be explored about the CS+ but I’ll do this first.

Like what? But ya... its a silly ship to fly at all. So YLA when the NCL is out. But I'm a silly person. 

All DNLs are a bit much, if you think the F-DVL is specificly bad, catagorize

Ultra cheese would be my catagorization. I'm just looking at the other DN's side by side with the DNL's. Its ridiculous the differences. Why would standard DN's EVER be even considered next to a DNL? The discrepancies with the weapon loadouts and power curves are amazing. We need to delve firther into this...

We should yank all commandos, they show up as AI way too often and nobody flew them anyway. 

Agreed. Seems the only time capture is an option is when you jump an enemy player after a planet assault or something.

There are abunch of Model size issue but the K-WD5 model size is the most blantantly obvious  

What are the others?

I'll add the NHK and RHK casual variants if needed.

I didnt see em in the list. Confirm for me.

Other notes:   

Gorn FYAs:   The Gorns don’t get the F torps on cruisers until 2275 because that is when they entered the General war.   2270 is a more realistic date.

Wow... big change there. But I wonder if we did if anyone would notice.  What are the matchup differences between 2270-72? Mb a less advanced move up like 2272 would be better, I dunno. Why 70?

The X-Droners are just silly,  the K-D5XD, Z-MDXD (or WTF it’s called) and the F-DGX need review and discussion.

They are a bit ott. The DX5D needs 2 more Ph1's to be OTT, tho. 

FiCons:  Um, keep ‘em or can ‘em?

Keep em!

PF Flotilas.   I like them 

I playtested them during the campaign. I found they are not uber at all. Their Achilles Heal is their mothership. You lose that you're toast. I suggest adding a bunch of excess damage as they get killed far too easily and then u lose the whole squad.
Also, I suggest drastically reducing their bpv. Most are 160 bpv. I say cut it to 100 or even less in the case of Lyrans. The Ai missions would still be tough. Course we could get techincal about this and the droner races we could add a bit and the plasma a lot. But 160 I found to be too high. Mise well buy a real tender ship for that.

Mb Lyran PF's should have Ph1's. They suck so awfully bad and no, Hexx didnt pay me any money to say that.

[FPF-DieHard]

DH's Shiplist Notes/Ideas for SGO7 (So far)

Feds:
- Phase out the F-CS+ for when the NCL comes out
- Send the F-DVL to cheese Hell where it belongs.
- F-DNH - Remove 1 AMD12, lower DC to 6.

Klingons:
- 2 B-racks on all Small Carriers
- C8VK (From OP+)  + 4 B-Racks, - 2 Dirupters, -2 Phaser 1s.  this will put the ship a lot more in line to the Z-CVAR
-  Playtest the C10K against the other DNHs of the Racial enemies (NOT just the Feds!!)  Current test shows it OWNs the Regent Hydran Heavy DN
- B10k should be the only available BB (FYA to be determined).   Fleeting rules to be determined later, based on Play-testing, will control the Cheesiness.

Lyran
- FYA for Powerpack Refits

Mirak:
- CF needs some tweaks to be discussed
-  I think the NCF is fine for it's Era
- Spare on DNH not correct.

Romulans:
- Will check the FYAs on all ships to phase out crap
- Casual Tenders for the Hawks will be added if missing

Hydran
- REGent Heavy DN needs Something, it's the bitch of the DNHs

DNLs
-  Get rid of them unless Cost of Build OOB is used and there are no DNMs to upgrade to.  Change the FYA on the Improved DNs (F-DN+ for example) to match the FYAs of the DNLs


Commando ships:
- Will be removed, nobody flies them and the are AI and shipyard SPAM

PFs
-  FiCons stay
- Solo Squads stay, I like them a lot.   Possibly change some rules to make them more enticing to fly as they are a lot of fun
- Explore Lyran PF modification,

X-tech
- Play-test the X-lights, espicially the ones converted using SFB rules that are not stock.
- I still think the Droners need to go, I include the F-DGX as I think it is a bit much as well
- Discuss/Explore/Playtest Partial-X (XP) as an option to keep line ships relavant in the "Cheese and Chase" era.

[Hexx]

Check the YFA's for all ships- Klingon D5P/D6P/DWP all have YFA's of 14- should be 16 (when the K-INT is out)
Check the YLA's for all ships- Lyran CC+ has YLA of 39, should be 11 (When the CCH is out)

- Improved Klingon fighter early (73)- clone a F18- the SPD 26  and DroI  are the important bits

-Get rid of the Fi-Cons, they simply magnify the already large gap between plasma-noplasma PF's

- Fed CLX conversion (if used) should be toned down a touch- conversion looks to be based off the CLC rather than the NCL+
(if it balancs out fine- no worries-just thought I'd point it out)

-Klingon D5XD conversion (again if used) by every conversion formula should have 8 Ph1's (along with it's 8 drone racks)
(Really I'd agree this and it's Kzin/Fed equivalants should be removed)

- Fix Lyran CVD (fighters need to be L-Swift, not K-swift)

-Gorn have 2xCVP's. no CVD is listed

-A10's should only be on CVAs....

- Given the superiority (and CJ nature) of teh Fed PF's maybe eliminate Fed casual tenders?

- Just to confirm- there are alot of casual Hawk tenders missing (No FFH-Kf, No NHKf, No FH-Pf )

- Kzin BF should already have 6 drone control . Again was the upgrading of this ship necessary? Or simply because players felt they needed it.
(not sarcasm-don't fight plasma)

-Z-NCF was also upgraded above and beyond (dunno if they mentioned this to you)

-Klingon C10K should be fine- was someone actually claiming it's to weak? 

[FPF-DieHard]

-A10's should only be on CVAs....

- Given the superiority (and CJ nature) of teh Fed PF's maybe eliminate Fed casual tenders?

Only if CnC is applied to all the races, currently the Plasma racves have no CnC.   A Speed 20 fighter with a range 4 weapon is not ubber.

I think the Fed PFs coiuld go for a little nerfing, possible stripping some more internals if possible to make them more fragile.  But no, that ain't going to happen 

Add to my Suggestions:

Federation:
- F-DNH - Remove 1 AMD12, lower DC to 6.

[Hexx]

Personally I'd think the Lyran DNH is fairly well matched against the Reg.
I'd hate to see the Reg (like the Kzin CF/NCFetc) gain more PVP power against their Lyran equivalant.

[Hexx]

- Question was raised if the C7T and D5T (??) could be put back in the list.

- Perhaps rename all PF's across all the races so each has PF,PFP,PFB,PHwhatever so a simple easy to use chart
  can be placed.

[FPF-DieHard]

- Question was raised if the C7T and D5T (??) could be put back in the list.

Not while I draw breath

Can Fed ships get a B turnmode?  It is as ridiculous of a request.

- Perhaps rename all PF's across all the races so each has PF,PFP,PFB,PHwhatever so a simple easy to use chart
  can be placed.

Not a bad Idea, but I dont' think it's that complicated.   Pehaps a chart of What Pfs had what weapons on an Excel sheet could be useful.


 

[FPF-DieHard]

Personally I'd think the Lyran DNH is fairly well matched against the Reg.
I'd hate to see the Reg (like the Kzin CF/NCFetc) gain more PVP power against their Lyran equivalant.

Against an L-DNHT?  On what planet does this stack up well?

[Hexx]

Not while I draw breath
Can Fed ships get a B turnmode?  It is as ridiculous of a request

<shrug> said I'd ask- I think the C7T would be OK (don't honestly remember anyone flying one)
Dunno why there was a D5T, think the D7 should be fine..

Not a bad Idea, but I don't think it's that complicated.   Perhaps a chart of What Pfs had what weapons on an Excel sheet could be useful.

I don't think it's that complicated either, yet it was asked time and time again on VT.

Against an L-DNHT?  On what planet does this stack up well?

All things (pilot skill etc) being equal 8 Hydran St fighters will kill 4 Lyran PF's
Each squad of 4 can easily one shot one PF.
With those 2 out, the Lyran ship has an advantage yes- but I don't think it's an overwhelming one.
I'm not trying to criticize what you guys are trying to do (although.. I know it's what I'm doing)

All I'm saying is -does it need to be upgraded? No it's not as good as a C10K, (which I understand was upgraded to meet the Fed DNH)
but does it have to be? I'd argue the Lyran DNH isn't as great as either of them either. I'm not arguing for an upgrade though.

Perhaps it would be better if I said (not that anyone listens to me anyway  ) to..maybe try a minor adjustment first?
I don't know who's idea it was for the Kzin BF/NCF upgrade, but that was kinda way ott for no real good reason.

[FPF-DieHard]

More to come!!  Dizzy, this is what I've done so far for the 6.1 testing . . . .

Federation:
-   F-CS+:   LYA changed to 7.   Leave 1 year of overlap with the NCL
-   F-DNH :   DC set to 6.   1 AMD12 removed
-   F-DNM:  DC set to 6.    3 AMD6 Removed
-   Federation PFs side and back shielding reduced


Klingon:
-   K-C10K: Set back to “stock” for testing.  DC stays at 12.
-   K-C8VK:  4 B-racks added.  2 Disrupters (FX) removed.  2 Phaser 1 removed.  Ship is very close to Z-CVAR
-   2 B-racks added to small carriers.
-   Check the YFA's for all ships- Klingon D5P/D6P/DWP all have YFA's of 14- should be 16 (when the K-INT is out)

Lyran:
-   Lyran CC+ has YLA of 39, should be 11 (When the CCH is out)
-   Fix Lyran CVD (fighters need to be L-Swift, not K-swift)

Gorn:
-   Redundant CVP removed
-   Shuttle launch rate on carriers corrected


Hydran:
-   H-REG removed (h variant comes out the same year)
-   H-REG+ (2 more Gats) added FOR TESTING ONLY SO NOBODY FLIP OUT!!!!!

Romulan:
-   R-FFH-Kf, R-RHKf, R-NHKf added

Kzinti:
-   Z-BF: FYA changed to 2268.   DC was already 6.  Phaser arcs changed so less fire backwards.
-   Z-DNH Power set back to stock for Testing

[Hexx]

Do you have the actual correct refits of the Lyran ships or do you need them?

[Hexx]

And (damn drugs messing up my sleep ) playing devils advocate- so far the changes are
(99% in jest cuz I'm bored- some concerns may arise, of course will wait to see "final" fixes)

-Fed CS+(unique) left in- LYA changed for 1 year overlap of NCL (which happens to be YFA of NCL+)
-Fed PF's- reduced already minimal shileding- still hands down the best PF in the west
Fed-DN's reduced massive AMD count (...I respect this, even if they are still practically immune to drones.. sure there's not going to be backlash?)

Klingons
-improvements to carriers, fighters still suxxor (do people still say suxxor?probably not eh? really need to get out more)

Lyrans
-fixes to shiplist
no improvements to general ships to match improvements to other races ships-
sure we'll never have to fight them so it won't be an issue 

Gorn
- Alliance ship-gets F torps (we know it's coming)
(plasma race gets improvement, if Lyran were only Kzin maybe they'd get something as well )

Hydrans
-First of a bazillions gats going to be added to the Reg+,
(no improvements to Lyran ships planned)

Roms
-Get some casual tenders they should have had <cough*conspiracy*cough> still don't seem to have the all cool FH-Pf

Kzin
-Keep improved BF's (that are of course to help vs plasma, fact they outgun Lyran ships deemed irrelevant)
(no improvement to Lyran ships planned)

Z-DNH power...reduced???
DAMN!! How did I miss something like that.
(must make note to check all Kzin and Hydran ships against SSD's, see what else has been snuck in)

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Kzin
-Keep improved BF's (that are of course to help vs plasma, fact they outgun Lyran ships deemed irrelevant)
(no improvement to Lyran ships planned)

And what year do the Lyran BCHs start coming out?

If the Moggy BCH was being used you might have an argement here, if it isn't you might want to keep quite as this point of view would suggest its inclusion    I fought Risky in a couple of Z-BF vs L-BF matchups and it is really a pretty close fight, especially when you realize a fair portion of these fights may occur when the Kzin doesn't have a full drone load.  DH is already reducing the number of rear firing phasers, with that change I don't think the Lyran CF will be at a disadvantage at all.

[Hexx]

** Again haven't seen the final list, so don't want to get ahead of anything here**
But..
As long as the Lyran BCPP is a metal ship it doesn't matter.

-I'm not saying the Kzin BF isn't needed-I don't know
I DO know that there were a heck of alot of Kzin BF kills on SGO6 for a "almost balanced" ship

It is a ship that (even with a YFA of 68) can outrun or outgun any Klingon ship (until 75, and then the NCF(with upgrade) is available
-can outrun and outgun (although far more marginally) any Lyran ship (with the obvious exception of said BCPP) in it's timeframe
(dunno what the new arcs are like- remember Lyran don't have the best arcs either)
-with 4 drone racks is an above average hex flipper

So you have a ship (that I'm told) was created to balance out the PVP ability of the Roms- although the Roms (I don't believe) were given anything to balance out the
hex flipping ability of the Kzin
A ship that can still (as mentioned) flip hexes better than most and (again) arguably (Ill use arguably- haven't slept and I admit my thinkings not 100%)
can outrun and outgun any Lyran or Klink ship it's likely to face.
A ship that's upgraded to another upgraded CF version that it could be argued outguns (2x Cracks & 2Bracks) the (admittedly stupid) K-FDW
(and is still a better hex flipper)

**haven't slept and I admit my thinkings not 100%**  <---- reposting this in case something here came across as offensive. Didn't mean it.

Now Dizzy's proposed (and hopefully used )rule to consider CF's as Capitla ships will of course lessen teh effect- but it'ss till going to be heck of a PVP ship in a solo fight.