Topic: Storm Season III Disengagement Rule Poll

[GDA-Agave]

Option# 4 as-is with 1 VP awarded for kills of any class ship would be too new player unfriendly to contemplate.

As for PvP kill pts only being awarded for line ships killing speciality ships, that bullsh*t too.   Who are we to tell someone that one type ship should be preferred over another?   Screw that!  That my friends is why we have seen our community shrink.  It's because we have put so many restrictions on things that we have squeezed the fun out of the game for many.


Rant over.

And such an amusing rant it was to..

Seriously though- how does my proposal ruin the game for someone?
If they want to fly a 3 Battleship Fleet with X technology and a button that instantly wins them the mission they're more than welcome to.
Doesn't restrict them from killing someone, or from hex flipping.They simply don't get any points for killing someone.
To me it seems a perfectly reasonable idea.

And the argument that "so many players have left because of restrictions" is .. erroneous as well.
Yes we've lost players because of restrictions, we've lost just as many because of older servers turning into 3XBB fests
We've lost as many as both put together because of the arguing over it. And we've lost more than all 3 because of the age of the game.

I will not disagree with you that there have been other factors that have changed our community over time.   My point was to say that some of the restrictions added to the rules set are the most addressable ones.

As for yours and DH examples of 3xBB fest, as expected, you guys point out the most extreme examples of *variety*.   I fully admit that there have been some basic rules added to the rules set that supported fair play.  Yes, the 3 ship fleets had their day, but the overall community has stated that they would not like to see that anymore.  I don't deal in absolutes, but shades of grey.

I am simply stating that you guys have taken some of these ideas too far.   If you would ease up a little on your fine tuning the rules down to the nth degree you might just be surprised by how receptive the community might be.  Before long, we'll need to engage J'inn's services just to get the rules set to paper.

Why would you want a PvP VC points system where only line ships are separated out either by not awarding pts if they are killed or only awarding pts if they are the killing ship?   Is a pilot so much better to you if they are proficient in killing other in line ships than a speciality ship?   Do you really want to take it so far as to tell WarSears, an acknowledged ace in klingon drone ships, that his kills are not as worthy as someone who kills you in a stock D7C?

I'm sorry, but I see such rules as elitist bullcrap.   All setup to benefit those pilots who excel in line ships.  If the community as a whole agrees with this then I'll be happy to sit in the minority.   Agree to disagree so to speak.   But, if there are other pilots out there that feel the way I do, shouldn't we consider them as well?


Agave

[el-Karnak]

Why would you want a PvP VC points system where only line ships are separated out either by not awarding pts if they are killed or only awarding pts if they are the killing ship?   Is a pilot so much better to you if they are proficient in killing other in line ships than a speciality ship?   Do you really want to take it so far as to tell WarSears, an acknowledged ace in klingon drone ships, that his kills are not as worthy as someone who kills you in a stock D7C?

I think the idea about giving VPs for bagging specialty ships and BCH-class+ ships is that they cost way more to build than the line ships. So, if an empire loses a more expensive ship then the achievement could be reflected in the VC totals. BCH-class+ ships are going to be rare commodities in any fleet, so losing them would not only be a expensive economic loss to any empire, but constitute a morale loss as well.

There is some debate on what exactly classifies a specialty ship. For example, the  Klingon and Mirak droners are more probably line ships than specialty ships. While the escort, mauler, PFT, CF and CV ships of any fleet are more probably specialty ships than line ships.

All the above principles are based on an analytical analysis of the traditional SFB Order of Battle for all the races in the game.

[762_XC]

I think Hexx's idea would work but is slightly more complicated than it needs to be. Simply making specialty ships worth a point reflects their higher economic cost and would encourage some pilots to fly in the free (and more common) line warships.

[KBF-Crim]

Specials = 2 pts
lines = 1 pt
rule #4

[el-Karnak]

Another analogy regarding the economic cost of losing a speciality and BCH-class+ ship for an empire would be:

Have an at-fault car accident in a run-of-the-mill compact car. Then have an accident in a $40,000 plus sports car or even a $100K plus Ferrari.

Which car will give you higher insurance premiums after the accident? Which car cost more to insure in the first place?

[KBF MalaK]

Rule 3 all the way !!

If you stay and die you should have to wait (while your rescued and recover in the bacta tank), as well as waiting for your replacment ship to be outfitted, crew trained, and mission prepped.

...unless your Klingon and just kill a Captain and take over his ship.

[Hexx]

I think Hexx's idea would work but is slightly more complicated than it needs to be. Simply making specialty ships worth a point reflects their higher economic cost and would encourage some pilots to fly in the free (and more common) line warships.

Again though doesn't solve (imho) the main issue- you're still going to have players like DH,Duck, Dizzy etc jumping into the specials
Which means if someone wants to kill them, they're going to need speciasl to do it, meaning the same thing as we have now.
By making the "elite" PVPers use the line ships * if they want to score PVP points* you remove the necessity for everyone to.

They can still be flown to do anything else and still have their use, they just won't be the standard for PVP as they are now.
At the moment there's no real need for most of the races to have line ships, and some of them can even get away without using the command variants.

[762_XC]

What it does do is prevent a n00b who loses a line ship from feeling like he hurt his team.

Maybe we need to go back to assigning specialty ships, or use a system like we do with iron. No more than one fast cruiser, droner, or carrier on the board per side (one of each).

[Hexx]

The only reason a n00b should feel like he's hurting his team is if that's what you're telling him.
It gives players a choice

With this system they're forced (although that is likely the wrong word, many of them I'm sure like the lineboats)
to fly the line stuff if they want to score points. But you would still be able to force someone off a hex if you beat them in a CF.
What it does is let the newer players either fly the line ships- and leanr how to manage power etc- or jump in teh fast cruisers/ droners/whatver and zip around the map.

A points system only reinforces the difference between player levels as the newer or less skilled PVP players are forced
to wait until the skilled PVP players get their hands on the killer ships. All your proposal does is enforce the idea of assigning the best ships to the best PVP pilots.


 

[FPF-DieHard]

What it does do is prevent a n00b who loses a line ship from feeling like he hurt his team.

Maybe we need to go back to assigning specialty ships, or use a system like we do with iron. No more than one fast cruiser, droner, or carrier on the board per side (one of each).

No 

That was a collasal pain in the ass and now we'll still have way more ships than players anyway.

The answer lies in Fleeting rule, Maybe count ALL specials as Metal in regards to fleeting?  Yeah, that is retarded, but it will work.  Something like that.

[FPF-DieHard]

The only reason a n00b should feel like he's hurting his team is if that's what you're telling him.
It gives players a choice

With this system they're forced (although that is likely the wrong word, many of them I'm sure like the lineboats)
to fly the line stuff if they want to score points. But you would still be able to force someone off a hex if you beat them in a CF.
What it does is let the newer players either fly the line ships- and leanr how to manage power etc- or jump in teh fast cruisers/ droners/whatver and zip around the map.

A points system only reinforces the difference between player levels as the newer or less skilled PVP players are forced
to wait until the skilled PVP players get their hands on the killer ships. All your proposal does is enforce the idea of assigning the best ships to the best PVP pilots.


 

It pains me greatly to agree with Hexx

[KBF-Crim]

"One man's cheese, is another man's only hope for survival"  KBF-Crim

[Lepton]

I'm not crazy about awarding VP's for non-metal and non-specialty ships. It's kind of n00b unfriendly.

Keep the same disengagement rule as SG6 but make line cruisers worth nothing. You will see more people sticking it out for PvP.

Specialty ships (fast cruisers, true carriers, droners) should always be worth a point.

Lol, the radius rule is noob unfriendly, yet I see no concern on that score.

[KBF-Crim]

I'm not crazy about awarding VP's for non-metal and non-specialty ships. It's kind of n00b unfriendly.

Keep the same disengagement rule as SG6 but make line cruisers worth nothing. You will see more people sticking it out for PvP.

Specialty ships (fast cruisers, true carriers, droners) should always be worth a point.

Lol, the radius rule is noob unfriendly, yet I see no concern on that score.

Mega hex bans suck.....how's that for concern....

[FPF-DieHard]

I'm not crazy about awarding VP's for non-metal and non-specialty ships. It's kind of n00b unfriendly.

Keep the same disengagement rule as SG6 but make line cruisers worth nothing. You will see more people sticking it out for PvP.

Specialty ships (fast cruisers, true carriers, droners) should always be worth a point.

Lol, the radius rule is noob unfriendly, yet I see no concern on that score.

I don't see how that affect n00bs more that others.  Everyone gets jumped and Chased out.

[FPF-DieHard]

"One man's cheese, is another man's only hope for survival"  KBF-Crim

Only if you're opponent has Cheese, otherwise all you need is practice

[Lepton]

The only reason a n00b should feel like he's hurting his team is if that's what you're telling him.
It gives players a choice

With this system they're forced (although that is likely the wrong word, many of them I'm sure like the lineboats)
to fly the line stuff if they want to score points. But you would still be able to force someone off a hex if you beat them in a CF.
What it does is let the newer players either fly the line ships- and leanr how to manage power etc- or jump in teh fast cruisers/ droners/whatver and zip around the map.

A points system only reinforces the difference between player levels as the newer or less skilled PVP players are forced
to wait until the skilled PVP players get their hands on the killer ships. All your proposal does is enforce the idea of assigning the best ships to the best PVP pilots.


 

Hexx, you are a frigging genius.  I was going to suggest such a thing but thought I would be summarily mocked and shouted down.  Bravo.  I think we are getting much closer to levelling the playing field with such a suggestion.

[FPF-DieHard]

Another Idea, what if you personally have to have killed somebody on the server in order for your death being worth any points?

The more I think about it, the more I like Hexx's idea. 

[Hexx]

Another Idea, what if you personally have to have killed somebody on the server in order for your death being worth any points?

I don't know if I can afford a ticket to NJ right now..

[Lepton]

I'm not crazy about awarding VP's for non-metal and non-specialty ships. It's kind of n00b unfriendly.

Keep the same disengagement rule as SG6 but make line cruisers worth nothing. You will see more people sticking it out for PvP.

Specialty ships (fast cruisers, true carriers, droners) should always be worth a point.

Lol, the radius rule is noob unfriendly, yet I see no concern on that score.

I don't see how that affect n00bs more that others.  Everyone gets jumped and Chased out.

The noob is more likely to be in a line ship and more likely to be less skilled in general therefore he or she can only but be effected more in general.