Topic: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )  (Read 11520 times)

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Offline F9th0mega

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Yea i know, i already posted this on BCC but i dont care.

Starforce, you ported 2 of my bashes/texture mods to BC, and disregarded the readme's. you DID NOT include them, and you DID NOT ask permission. two things i clearly stated in them.

I dont know how you managed to overlook those facts as they were in the readme's which you most definetly read...

And after all that they didnt even work... (Thanks AndrewJ :P I got to fly my ships in BC thanks to his know how :P you need to add them manually using BCMP )

I may come off as an asshole, but i dont care. I am a VERY strict person when it comes to rules i lay down... and they werent that hard to follow either...

Starforce, Reupload the ships, put a statement saying you uploaded them without permissions, AND include MY readme's. that or im having them removed and ill repost em myself.

This isnt a discussions. its a public reprimand. deal with it.
Alternate universe:  Khan was banished for preserving the peace. The Genesis device was really a super weapon and kirk had planned to use it on the klingons. Chekov found the Botany Bay and khan hijakced and killed the evil reliant crew in an effort to destroy the genesis device.    Ahh i love it :D The alternate universe rocks.


Offline Centurus

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2006, 11:01:13 pm »
Personally, if it were me, I'd start sending messages straight to the FilesFront admins and owners letting them know about this, and saving any and all forum posts and sending them to said admins and owners, and if the problem isn't recified by the parties involved, let the admins and owners do something, and chances are the FilesFront admins and owners would side with 0mega in this case.
The pen is truly mightier than the sword.  And considerably easier to write with.

Offline F9th0mega

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2006, 11:03:09 pm »
already saved the pages incase he wants to hide anything, im sure he can be civil about this too :roll: im younger than he is after all...
Alternate universe:  Khan was banished for preserving the peace. The Genesis device was really a super weapon and kirk had planned to use it on the klingons. Chekov found the Botany Bay and khan hijakced and killed the evil reliant crew in an effort to destroy the genesis device.    Ahh i love it :D The alternate universe rocks.


Offline Raven Night

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2006, 12:07:57 am »
There isnt any way this could have been resolved privately? You certainly have a right to have your concerns adressed to your satisfaction, but perhaps it would have been more prudent and healthier for the community if it was resolved on MSN or through email.
Never let your ego think or act for you..........me.


Offline Major A Payne

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2006, 01:53:00 am »
I would also like to add something to this. Looking over your own readme, I wonder if you attempted to get permission of the texture creator which according to your readme is stated as Gafy. Not that I'm condoning what starforce did, but it would be somewhat contradictory of you to go ahead and rant about no permission if you didn't follow this proceedure yourself (and seeing as theres a question mark next to gafy's name I'm inclined to think you didn't do your hardest to obtain permission of find out if the textures were definately by him. They could have been P81's considering you stated a credit for his meshes).

Just a point I made for you to consider. Nothing more.

Offline Centurus

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2006, 02:55:42 am »
Whenever GAFY is credited, he's always credited with a ?, considering that his full name is GotAFarmYet?.  As for seeking permission, I believe GAFY just has a general rule that if his work is used, that he be given proper credit.
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Offline F9th0mega

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2006, 06:53:39 am »
I would also like to add something to this. Looking over your own readme, I wonder if you attempted to get permission of the texture creator which according to your readme is stated as Gafy. Not that I'm condoning what starforce did, but it would be somewhat contradictory of you to go ahead and rant about no permission if you didn't follow this proceedure yourself (and seeing as theres a question mark next to gafy's name I'm inclined to think you didn't do your hardest to obtain permission of find out if the textures were definately by him. They could have been P81's considering you stated a credit for his meshes).
talked to MP, as he was helping me get all the permission stuff worked out and he told me i didnt need to ask gafy specifically for permissions... i believe i directly asked whoever necessary.

two simple rules in my readme's. include the original, and at the very least TELL ME your making a mod or proting them...
Just a point I made for you to consider. Nothing more.
I would also like to add something to this. Looking over your own readme, I wonder if you attempted to get permission of the texture creator which according to your readme is stated as Gafy. Not that I'm condoning what starforce did, but it would be somewhat contradictory of you to go ahead and rant about no permission if you didn't follow this proceedure yourself (and seeing as theres a question mark next to gafy's name I'm inclined to think you didn't do your hardest to obtain permission of find out if the textures were definately by him. They could have been P81's considering you stated a credit for his meshes).

Just a point I made for you to consider. Nothing more.
Alternate universe:  Khan was banished for preserving the peace. The Genesis device was really a super weapon and kirk had planned to use it on the klingons. Chekov found the Botany Bay and khan hijakced and killed the evil reliant crew in an effort to destroy the genesis device.    Ahh i love it :D The alternate universe rocks.


Offline Major A Payne

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2006, 08:37:55 am »
you DID NOT ask permission. two things i clearly stated in them.

Not quite the same as being informed is it?? I will agree though that the original readme should have been included, and as for GAFYs general ruling. I know of alot of modellers who have this rule but generally still prefer if a modder makes a permission request anyway, unless, for example Andy "Deemon" Johns. He is incredibly difficult to get hold of, so much so, that both emails and ICQ/MSN contacts for him don't seem to be usable any longer, therefore people just credit him.

Not entirely sure though why I'm quoted twice, but thats your perogative. Also I do appologise for getting involved, but I would also hasten to agree with Raven that this should have been a matter for PM, or off forum contact, don't you??

Offline F9th0mega

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2006, 02:19:23 pm »
I agree with raven and Major Payne, Deffinatly the sort of thing you bring into the forums to fix, and allowing people who wish to make small issues into larger problems infront of everyone in the community is just foolish. OutaLance has an agrement with Starforce that models that people bring with them are overtime ported into BC, just as models please updates alot of files to include the SFC1,2,Op versions of the models for use by all SFCers.

Saying that if the member doesnt wish SF to port it all they need to do is either let SF know or MP, Dawg, Adonis or myself know so they dont get added to SF's lists. Obviously this wasnt communicated to you when you signed up and i am sorry for that. SF and i have spoken and the files have or will be edited to include all the readmes and credits to be restored to the files and SF has emailed omega to resolve these issues in private with no ill feelings. so i think this topic should be locked so it can be forgotten as the whole point of the forums is to show off our work and share our love of the games.
everyone seems to dislike the fact im bringing an issue out in to the open? what the heck?

Major, my mouse is busted :P it double clicks alot :P i didnt realise i quoted you twice :lol:

and a quote from his not so eloquent email...

Quote
Try not letting certain other individuals influence you into spreading it across half the community when you know damn well nobody wants to hear the personal business of others.

let others influence me? heres something new about me you should knew then. i think for myself. but GG trying to blame someone else ^_- Personal business of others? well what if i WANT people to hear about it? AGAIN, i think for myself thanks.

he didnt attempt to resolve anything, just basically called me stupid and told me to shut up about it :S

Oh lovely, he got me banned from BCC :lol: GREAT way to leave a lasting impression, rather than DEAL with an issue, BAN the person.

ive got a very lovely line, filled with colorful metaphors id LOVE to post, but im better than that. i dont dodge problems either. By the wya SF, i just talked to Sean of BCC, so your ban, or whoever you got to do it, just doesnt work :rolleyes: (multiple IP's, and i can change them at will...)
Alternate universe:  Khan was banished for preserving the peace. The Genesis device was really a super weapon and kirk had planned to use it on the klingons. Chekov found the Botany Bay and khan hijakced and killed the evil reliant crew in an effort to destroy the genesis device.    Ahh i love it :D The alternate universe rocks.


Offline Raven Night

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2006, 02:41:15 pm »
Oh god, here we go.

Starforce, Omega, cant you guys finish this in email? I'm not saying I like or dislike laundry like this aired in public, I'm just saying that when you post things like this in the open you make all parties look bad. It was just some friendly advice.
Never let your ego think or act for you..........me.


Offline F9th0mega

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2006, 03:27:33 pm »
Oh god, here we go.

Starforce, Omega, cant you guys finish this in email? I'm not saying I like or dislike laundry like this aired in public, I'm just saying that when you post things like this in the open you make all parties look bad. It was just some friendly advice.
I would have had no rpblem finishing it in email, but he had me banned over at BCC (Overturned by (Correctiong) Mark. ) and didnt exactly respond helpfully via email. he jsut called me stupid and told me to shut up.

Im letting to truth see the light of day... why does everyone have a problem with that? if you dont like the truth, dont read the thread.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2006, 03:38:07 pm by F9th0mega »
Alternate universe:  Khan was banished for preserving the peace. The Genesis device was really a super weapon and kirk had planned to use it on the klingons. Chekov found the Botany Bay and khan hijakced and killed the evil reliant crew in an effort to destroy the genesis device.    Ahh i love it :D The alternate universe rocks.


intermech

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2006, 03:51:46 pm »
This is great!! I get it now, you and Starforce cooked this all up to revive the forum. First you staged the classic "I'm outa' here" announcement thread and now this. A little flaming goes a long way, some of the best models have shown up right after a flame war. !BRILLIANT!

This really has gotten my creative juices moving!

Offline KBF-Crim

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2006, 04:56:12 pm »
Oh god, here we go.

Starforce, Omega, cant you guys finish this in email? I'm not saying I like or dislike laundry like this aired in public, I'm just saying that when you post things like this in the open you make all parties look bad. It was just some friendly advice.
I would have had no problem finishing it in email, but he had me banned over at BCC (Overturned by (Correction) Mark. ) and didn't exactly respond helpfully via email. he just called me stupid and told me to shut up.

I'm letting to truth see the light of day... why does everyone have a problem with that? if you don't like the truth, don't read the thread.

Bringing it up is one thing.....having it spill all over an otherwise peaceful forum is another...

Please don't let this denigrate into a flame session....

We strive to keep this place as an oasis in an otherwise chaotic world of modeling and personalities...

Everyone is welcome here so long as they follow the rules here...

Raven is the master of diplomacy and mediation....I would heed his advice...

This forum usually requires the least moderation...please strive to keep it that way..

Thanks.

Crimmy

Offline Starforce2

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2006, 05:25:51 pm »
Ok now I must respond to these lies:

1) I did not ask you to be banned, nor suggest it. I asked mark how he wanted that thread handled because they enforce some different rules and since it's a new forum I refer to them before doing anything. At this point mark said he would clean up the thread himself, and didn't mention anything about a ban. (I believe the rule you violated had to do with ranting outside of the rant forum) Additionaly, I do not have the authority to ban, that I know of anyways.

2) Calling you stupid: If had had wanted to do this I would have simply done it. TBH, had I wanted to insult you in that email it'd have been far more creative than "you're stupid", though considering they way you keep pulling these accusations out of your rear end, you have me convinced! ::)


And to you intermech, that's the funniest god damn post I've seen on this forum in a while. Nice one! +1 to you.

Offline Smiley

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2006, 05:45:22 pm »
This is great!! I get it now, you and Starforce cooked this all up to revive the forum. First you staged the classic "I'm outa' here" announcement thread and now this. A little flaming goes a long way, some of the best models have shown up right after a flame war. !BRILLIANT!

This really has gotten my creative juices moving!

IM you crack me up ;)

Signature: Terran Empire Relentless: WZ, All Other Models: Smiley

Offline F9th0mega

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2006, 06:09:37 pm »
Oh god, here we go.

Starforce, Omega, cant you guys finish this in email? I'm not saying I like or dislike laundry like this aired in public, I'm just saying that when you post things like this in the open you make all parties look bad. It was just some friendly advice.
I would have had no problem finishing it in email, but he had me banned over at BCC (Overturned by (Correction) Mark. ) and didn't exactly respond helpfully via email. he just called me stupid and told me to shut up.

I'm letting to truth see the light of day... why does everyone have a problem with that? if you don't like the truth, don't read the thread.

Bringing it up is one thing.....having it spill all over an otherwise peaceful forum is another...

Please don't let this denigrate into a flame session....

We strive to keep this place as an oasis in an otherwise chaotic world of modeling and personalities...

Everyone is welcome here so long as they follow the rules here...

Raven is the master of diplomacy and mediation....I would heed his advice...

This forum usually requires the least moderation...please strive to keep it that way..

Thanks.

Crimmy
im keeping it blunt and to the point :P

Quote
As I explained on BCC if you had bothered to choose to read it before going to yet another forum, this port was directed by outalance. I didn't go download this myself and just port it, it was sent through the team. You got issues, talk to the team leaders about it. I just port what's sent to me with the understand that when stuff is sent from the team leaders (or directly from team members who built it) it's good to go. Try not letting certain other individuals influence you into spreading it across half the community when you know damn well nobody wants to hear the personal business of others.
you felt it necessary to repeat something you had said twice and all i said was what i wanted. for you to include MY readme's in the files and reupload them... i dont know what is so hard to comprehend here... and by repeating that it just made me feel as though you thought i was stupid

Im not trying to start a fight, im trying to fix an oversight. end of story. And crim, im a damn good mediator... trust me on that one (i could write a book about it.)
Alternate universe:  Khan was banished for preserving the peace. The Genesis device was really a super weapon and kirk had planned to use it on the klingons. Chekov found the Botany Bay and khan hijakced and killed the evil reliant crew in an effort to destroy the genesis device.    Ahh i love it :D The alternate universe rocks.


Offline Starforce2

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2006, 07:04:35 pm »
Whats wrong with the readme's that they have now? I kept your ship history. All the credits are there. I'm simply not going to include stats and instalation instructions for another game in the release for BC, as it will just confuse people. Also, whenever I release a ship I rewrite the readmes so the first thing you see when you read it are the credits. Your readmes had them down in the middle or the end. It was no oversight, it's called standardization and done for a reason.. You are just looking for an excuse to whine about something and make it everyones problem. I'm done listning to it as of now.

Offline Raven Night

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2006, 07:30:30 pm »
Making you feel like he is calling you stupid and actually calling you stupid is two different things. The collusion of facts diametrically increases based on the level of emotion. Refer to my sig for instructions.

And Starforce, butt comments and indications he is whining doesnt help either. You can certainly clarify the issue and indicate you feel he is being combative without leveling insults. This simply amplifies the egowar.

Stop trying to iceskate uphill guys. Both of you are vital to the community, and none of us like to see you fighting this way. Discuss and resolve, dont insult and devolve. You will find you live longer.
Never let your ego think or act for you..........me.


intermech

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2006, 08:24:19 pm »

This forum usually requires the least moderation...please strive to keep it that way..


Wow, that is really impressive to me, especially because as far as I can tell, this forum is also the most active at Dyna. That really speaks to the caliber of the people here. I solute you all. Thanks for the tid-bit 'Crim, that made my day!

Offline Tus-XC

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2006, 08:50:33 pm »
I'm done listning to it as of now.

That seems to be the overarcing problem here ain't it, and possibly the source...
Rob

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Offline FCM_SFHQ_XC

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2006, 09:25:16 pm »
Readme's should really be follow exactly from the original creator.. no reason to try to "define" it since it is exactly that and no way around it. As for not wanting to listen to it, that will only make problems worse in the future, which I myself have personally experienced (and I am sure all of us have). It would be best to resolve it now so it doesn’t create a division "crack" that slowly grows to a gaping hole to the point where confrontations are not able to be resolved so easily.. Dont fight about it and just sit down and try to fix the issues as best you can.. for both your benefit, and the benefit for everyone here at D.net and the community :)
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Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2006, 11:45:24 pm »
An easy way around any problem like this happening again is simple, do what I do.... When I convert a model I simply rename the read me that is comes with as Original (whatever game) ReadMe.... takes 2 seconds and seems to keep everyone happy then I write my own read me for the conversion  ;D

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2006, 12:11:17 am »
Sheesh, why can't we just get along? :smackhead:
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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2006, 04:57:39 am »
Making you feel like he is calling you stupid and actually calling you stupid is two different things. The collusion of facts diametrically increases based on the level of emotion. Refer to my sig for instructions.

And Starforce, butt comments and indications he is whining doesnt help either. You can certainly clarify the issue and indicate you feel he is being combative without leveling insults. This simply amplifies the egowar.

Stop trying to iceskate uphill guys. Both of you are vital to the community, and none of us like to see you fighting this way. Discuss and resolve, dont insult and devolve. You will find you live longer.

I think we need a special thread or something to put these kind of posts to. Very well put Raven ;D +1 Karma ;)

An easy way around any problem like this happening again is simple, do what I do.... When I convert a model I simply rename the read me that is comes with as Original (whatever game) ReadMe.... takes 2 seconds and seems to keep everyone happy then I write my own read me for the conversion  ;D

Pretty much summs up the solution for this.
...and an ingenious way of things it is ;D
Easy is the path to wisdom for those not blinded by themselves.


Offline F9th0mega

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2006, 05:17:44 am »
An easy way around any problem like this happening again is simple, do what I do.... When I convert a model I simply rename the read me that is comes with as Original (whatever game) ReadMe.... takes 2 seconds and seems to keep everyone happy then I write my own read me for the conversion  ;D
Which is why im so lost as to why he wont put it in :rolleyes: but hes done listeneing to it :rolleyes: (Very childish remark Starforce.)
Alternate universe:  Khan was banished for preserving the peace. The Genesis device was really a super weapon and kirk had planned to use it on the klingons. Chekov found the Botany Bay and khan hijakced and killed the evil reliant crew in an effort to destroy the genesis device.    Ahh i love it :D The alternate universe rocks.


Offline Starforce2

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2006, 06:06:10 am »
I wont put it in for a number of reasons:

1) I don't want to, and shouldn't need to. There's nothing wrong with the current readme's. Just because YOU didn't write it doesn't make the information in it any more or less correct or important.

2) I have all of the nessecary credit and ship history information posted in the new readme. Whats the difference? 5kb of text is 5kb of text regardless of what file it is in. If you want to talk about childish remarks, refer to the ones you have been making, all over a text file, on 4 different forums. It's just a damn ship for god sake. A ship, BTW, where the vast majority of the work involved belongs to P81 and GAFY, whithout which (or another set of authors of similar quality of which there are not many who have done all of the nessecary parts) "your" 2 ships would exsist in the first place.

3) You've spewed this over 4 forums. Had you not done so I may have been more open to your requests. Now I am not.

Again, you want to say I am being childish? Arguing over who's text file is more important on a fictional starship? Give it up dude. This fight has gotten so pathetic I don't care who "wins" the arugement. Any newbies looking at this right now probably think we are all loosers who need to get laid.

Offline wulf111

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2006, 07:22:28 am »
Quote
It's just a damn ship for god sake.

This is the kind of statement that makes me mad. The thing is it isnt just a ship its a part of the modeler, being a completely original or kitbash, it is their creativity that put those parts together with that texture to create something new and make it all work together.


Omegas request that you add the original readme is not unreasonable and i do see your point that the credits and stuff are in the new readme but it is his policy that the original readme stay with the file intact and it is his right as the modeler to do so.
Omega asked you to just re-upload the ships with the proper readmes he could of just as easily told you to pull them down and not let you use them at all wich is also his right to do so if he wishes.


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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2006, 08:10:09 am »
Quote
It's just a damn ship for god sake.

This is the kind of statement that makes me mad. The thing is it isnt just a ship its a part of the modeler, being a completely original or kitbash, it is their creativity that put those parts together with that texture to create something new and make it all work together.


+1
If you aim at nothing:  you WILL hit it every time !

intermech

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2006, 09:37:41 am »
Hey, Ol-B! The bassmaster himself! Great to see you post! Man this is like a family reunion!!!

Maybe Cleeve, LB, and Maggot will pop their heads in!!!

Offline Major A Payne

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2006, 10:08:57 am »
Oh, now come on starforce. Although this sort of thing shouldn't have been put on the forum, I do believe your attitude is somewhat very poor (not exactly the words I would actually use, but still). I mean why not just follow a simple request to keep that person happy?? Seeing as you would have read the original readme in the first place to copy/paste the information to your readme.

The way it reads your both acting as bad as each other.

Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2006, 10:23:55 am »
I spoke with LB last week.  ;D Nice to see ya Buzz

ModelsPlease, resident "Model Junkie" recovering from a tragic crayon sharpener accident.

Offline Starforce2

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2006, 10:32:06 am »
Oh, now come on starforce. Although this sort of thing shouldn't have been put on the forum, I do believe your attitude is somewhat very poor (not exactly the words I would actually use, but still). I mean why not just follow a simple request to keep that person happy?? Seeing as you would have read the original readme in the first place to copy/paste the information to your readme.

The way it reads your both acting as bad as each other.

Because I interprate keeping the credits as the same act. The credits are what is important. See next post.

Offline Starforce2

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2006, 10:32:22 am »
Quote
It's just a damn ship for god sake.

This is the kind of statement that makes me mad. The thing is it isnt just a ship its a part of the modeler, being a completely original or kitbash, it is their creativity that put those parts together with that texture to create something new and make it all work together.

Cerativity and originality come from things not done before, not by taking parts of well known ships and reassembling them in ways that anyone can think of in 5 minutes much in the way a class of children would assemble a mr potato head. While the end results may look cool and may be worth showing off, but to go all spirtual and say it's part of you is absurd.

On the other hand, going back to mr potato head, if one were to make each plastic peice and paint it before assembling it, then you've done something thet you could say is part of you. The Venturas and Minotaur were not made from polygon 1 and thus I don't believe your arguement has merit with these specific 2 ships in mind. I'm not trying to diminish the accomplishments of kitbashers here, I like the bashes as much sa the next guy but that's taking thigns far to seriously, which in essese is the whole problem. This is supposed to be a game.

Quote
Omegas request that you add the original readme is not unreasonable and i do see your point that the credits and stuff are in the new readme but it is his policy that the original readme stay with the file intact and it is his right as the modeler to do so.
Omega asked you to just re-upload the ships with the proper readmes he could of just as easily told you to pull them down and not let you use them at all wich is also his right to do so if he wishes.

It's not what he asked that's unreasonable. It's how he asked. He could have contacted me directly, asked me why I didn't ask or notify him of the port and to fix the readme, but instead of facing me one on one he chose this.


Offline Tus-XC

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2006, 11:37:45 am »
Cerativity and originality come from things not done before, not by taking parts of well known ships and reassembling them in ways that anyone can think of in 5 minutes much in the way a class of children would assemble a mr potato head. While the end results may look cool and may be worth showing off, but to go all spirtual and say it's part of you is absurd.

The day you actually do that outside of porting peoples work is the day i'll actually put some weight to your statement.  What you are saying is complete and utter bull hockey.  The fact of the matter is simple, someone made something that they inspired to.  They put something of their selves into the project, no matter how the project went about being done.  This is better compared to real world kitbashing, taking model kits and building something out of those part to achieve the final result that you want.  To tell someone they didn't put any effort into something, or that they didn't put something of themselves into said model because their skill level is not at a point where they can scratch build is rather insulting to every modeler here, and a statement that you yourself are in no position to make. 

This is supposed to be a game.
And those models are still peoples work, a fact that you seem to have forgotten.  It doesn't matter one bit whether its for a game or not.  Or whether you believe it merits it or not.  You don't get to make that decision.

It's not what he asked that's unreasonable. It's how he asked. He could have contacted me directly, asked me why I didn't ask or notify him of the port and to fix the readme, but instead of facing me one on one he chose this.

And you claim to be the bigger man, trying to take the high ground using the statement that he didn't come to me.  If you really wanted the high ground you would have done as he requested when he requested it here even if this was an improper place to do so.  I did so when there was that whole problem with the background info for my Majestic.  I removed the info, even though it should have been taken to me first.  if you had we wouldn't be on 2 pages of this discussion now would we.  The real problem here is not that he posted this on the forum, its that you won't fix what is to me an apparently easy fix.  A person can only be judged by their actions and inactions.  When i know that you have done similar things in the past, and have even gone against modelers wishes in the past just for spite does that give me much hope that such a settlement can be reached with you via e-mail?   Its a culmination of all those little things that happened in the past that has lead us to this point.  What will determine the outcome of this is your character, and whether you are mature enough to accept some of the blame for what has happened and fix it.
Rob

"Elige Sortem Tuam"

Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2006, 11:45:49 am »
I spoke with LB last week.  ;D Nice to see ya Buzz

 hi ya bud ...  u-2   IM!


 :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

(care for some?)
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Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2006, 11:48:00 am »
The Majestic info was my bad I got it from one source and it turned out to belong to another. Sorry about that. But I did speak to that person and infact wound up bashing him a ship so all is good. But that's old news.

Bottom line guys, fix the issue and let's move on with the modelling.


ModelsPlease, resident "Model Junkie" recovering from a tragic crayon sharpener accident.

Offline F9th0mega

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2006, 02:06:44 pm »
Quote
It's just a damn ship for god sake.

This is the kind of statement that makes me mad. The thing is it isnt just a ship its a part of the modeler, being a completely original or kitbash, it is their creativity that put those parts together with that texture to create something new and make it all work together.

Cerativity and originality come from things not done before, not by taking parts of well known ships and reassembling them in ways that anyone can think of in 5 minutes much in the way a class of children would assemble a mr potato head. While the end results may look cool and may be worth showing off, but to go all spirtual and say it's part of you is absurd.

On the other hand, going back to mr potato head, if one were to make each plastic peice and paint it before assembling it, then you've done something thet you could say is part of you. The Venturas and Minotaur were not made from polygon 1 and thus I don't believe your arguement has merit with these specific 2 ships in mind. I'm not trying to diminish the accomplishments of kitbashers here, I like the bashes as much sa the next guy but that's taking thigns far to seriously, which in essese is the whole problem. This is supposed to be a game.

Quote
Omegas request that you add the original readme is not unreasonable and i do see your point that the credits and stuff are in the new readme but it is his policy that the original readme stay with the file intact and it is his right as the modeler to do so.
Omega asked you to just re-upload the ships with the proper readmes he could of just as easily told you to pull them down and not let you use them at all wich is also his right to do so if he wishes.

It's not what he asked that's unreasonable. It's how he asked. He could have contacted me directly, asked me why I didn't ask or notify him of the port and to fix the readme, but instead of facing me one on one he chose this.



Thats the thing, i didnt know WHERE to ask you so i started by posting on BCC... which in turn was deleted :S And after you ignored my requests and told me the same thing you went on to repeat multiple times, i posted here.

If people would like to see the posts, i have an htm saved (was expecting the deleteing of posts and possible banning... (someone banned me at BCC... no one knows who though... :roll: and it wasnt proper... just my IP...)
Alternate universe:  Khan was banished for preserving the peace. The Genesis device was really a super weapon and kirk had planned to use it on the klingons. Chekov found the Botany Bay and khan hijakced and killed the evil reliant crew in an effort to destroy the genesis device.    Ahh i love it :D The alternate universe rocks.


intermech

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2006, 02:32:00 pm »
If people would like to see the posts, i have an htm saved

No thanks.

Offline FCM_SFHQ_XC

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2006, 02:47:32 pm »
OK.. models are the authors work.. so as long as it isnt something unreasonable(like requesting that they go skydiving first before they have permission to release it), then its not left up to interpretation. Credits are NOT the only thing important in a readme..
Now, before this issue tears people apart on both sides, how about just fixing the issues, and moving on.. NOW. It doesnt really matter how the author asked for it to be rectified(again unless its something extremly threatening).. if you dont like the way it was addressed justr let them know that, but still fix the issues. its not a way to justify resistance towards fixing the issues at hand.
Starfleet Headquarters out.

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Offline Raven Night

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2006, 03:05:20 pm »
I would like to make one small point.

I spent quite alot of time working up the background of the ships that I create. Many of you are probably familiar with the ones I speak of. This usually fixes the problems that crop up, like "why do the Romulans have a huge ship like this?" type of thing.

Now, Outlance usually converts my model first, then Starforce picks it up. It is converted for both games, and the converters usually add thier information into the readme, remove or correct some items sometimes, and upload the file. Often, people credit those that convert the model with it's creation instead of Nightsoft. When I see a change that I would not prefer (I dont care about the ego feed, my ego is so big it hasnt needed a boost for years now) I simply ask if it can be changed to my likeing, and usually it is. Starforce in particular has been very vigilant about following my wishes.

Some of you may find this hard to believe, but it is how it is. It is how I approach Outlance or Starforce Productions that makes all the difference. I'm sure Starforce will admit himself that sometimes his reaction is on the kneejerk side, especially when faced with critisism. We see that all the time all over the net....alot of people do not take well to critism of thier work, at any stage.

Omega mentioned at first that he didnt mind the conversion, but would like to have been told. So he was already irritated. Apparantly Outlance had an agreement with Starforce that he was not aware of. So this truly was a misunderstanding in the beginning. Now, Starforce reacted badly to that, then Omega did not like the reaction, and then he found out that his readme had been altered, and it just ran on from there.

Egos have fed this argument, obviously. This is often the crux of this sort of problem. Everyone enjoys thier time in the spotlight, be it for an original work, a kitbash, a mission or script, or a conversion/hardpoint job, all vital parts of the process and equally worthy of recognition. In the case here, I think someone has to make the move to appease the situation. Stubborness will only exacerbate it further.

I woudl like to ask that you do as Omega wishes, Starforce, for the sake of civility in the community. Then perhaps you guys can say your apologies and we can move on from this.
Never let your ego think or act for you..........me.


Offline ChiefBrex

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2006, 03:19:05 pm »
Frankly, I can't blame Omega one bit for his outburst, nor his choice to take this matter publicly.

Everyone that has asked for this to be taken privately really ought to be ashamed of themselves. People like Starforce have been allowed to abuse the system which we all work under, because Forums like BCU and BCC force the issues into private, where the matter usually ends up getting resolved with the victim, and yes I meant calling Omega a victim, getting banned or punished in some way. It's time for this BS to stop.

Starforce is the most unapproachable person in this modding community. He takes liberties with other mods (I refer to the incident involving LC's Wolf 359 pack), and then defends his actions. Kinda reminds me of George W. Bush.

Omega - My advice to you is to get your stuff taken down and have it posted elsewhere, or have someone else fulfill your request, because Starforce is Starforce, and he's not gonna do what he doesn't want to. Which makes him arrogant, rude, and unfit for any kind of moderating/admin position on any forum.

If this post gets me in trouble here at Dyna, so be it. But the facts need to be publicized.

Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2006, 03:20:28 pm »
Well spoken Raven  ;) :thumbsup:

ModelsPlease, resident "Model Junkie" recovering from a tragic crayon sharpener accident.

Offline Centurus

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2006, 04:28:13 pm »
Cerativity and originality come from things not done before, not by taking parts of well known ships and reassembling them in ways that anyone can think of in 5 minutes much in the way a class of children would assemble a mr potato head. While the end results may look cool and may be worth showing off, but to go all spirtual and say it's part of you is absurd.

The day you actually do that outside of porting peoples work is the day i'll actually put some weight to your statement.  What you are saying is complete and utter bull hockey.  The fact of the matter is simple, someone made something that they inspired to.  They put something of their selves into the project, no matter how the project went about being done.  This is better compared to real world kitbashing, taking model kits and building something out of those part to achieve the final result that you want.  To tell someone they didn't put any effort into something, or that they didn't put something of themselves into said model because their skill level is not at a point where they can scratch build is rather insulting to every modeler here, and a statement that you yourself are in no position to make. 

This is supposed to be a game.
And those models are still peoples work, a fact that you seem to have forgotten.  It doesn't matter one bit whether its for a game or not.  Or whether you believe it merits it or not.  You don't get to make that decision.

It's not what he asked that's unreasonable. It's how he asked. He could have contacted me directly, asked me why I didn't ask or notify him of the port and to fix the readme, but instead of facing me one on one he chose this.

And you claim to be the bigger man, trying to take the high ground using the statement that he didn't come to me.  If you really wanted the high ground you would have done as he requested when he requested it here even if this was an improper place to do so.  I did so when there was that whole problem with the background info for my Majestic.  I removed the info, even though it should have been taken to me first.  if you had we wouldn't be on 2 pages of this discussion now would we.  The real problem here is not that he posted this on the forum, its that you won't fix what is to me an apparently easy fix.  A person can only be judged by their actions and inactions.  When i know that you have done similar things in the past, and have even gone against modelers wishes in the past just for spite does that give me much hope that such a settlement can be reached with you via e-mail?   Its a culmination of all those little things that happened in the past that has lead us to this point.  What will determine the outcome of this is your character, and whether you are mature enough to accept some of the blame for what has happened and fix it.

+1

I couldn't have said it any better myself.
The pen is truly mightier than the sword.  And considerably easier to write with.

intermech

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2006, 04:47:00 pm »
WOW, The TUS-MISTER is here!!! . . . This guy is like a ghost even in his personal forum! Great to see you!

This reminds me of that scene in Fellowship of the Ring where the little hobbits are hiding under the tree roots when the wraith is looking for Frodo. Just about the time Frodo's eyes start rolling back into his head, all manner of worms and bugs start popping out all over the place.

Still missing Atolm and Pneumatic85, but I am sure they will be by in a bit.

Offline DuctTapeWonder

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2006, 06:24:14 pm »
For crying out loud! It's no wonder I don't stop by here any more. Every time I do it's like a damn sewing circle with crap like this at the top of the gossip list. With no less than 45 posts at this point. Pissing and moaning, pissing and moaning. If people got 45 posts about the work they post here, maybe egos would be fed enough to not be butt-hurt about who said what to who about this, that, the other and what they did or did'nt do with what that was his, mine or whos.

BTW...I'm not directing these comments to either side of this arguement, but rather to everyone here who fans the flames.

intermech

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2006, 07:29:22 am »
DuctTapeWonder !!! There is another one we've missed. How have you been Ducky??? Got any new work to show off?

Offline darkthunder

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2006, 10:51:11 pm »
Starforce, by your own admission the work Omega did had nothing to do with "creativity" since it was kitbashes of parts already exisiting made by other modellers and "slapped together" the way Omega saw fit. However... 95% of "your work" would fall under this category as well, since most of your work is kitbashes taken from parts that others have modelled. And then you have labeled each ship with your own "SFP" name despite it technically not being "your work". I refer for example to the LC Wolf 359 pack, where you had made your own hardpoints for each ship, uploaded it to BCFiles and then labeled it as "SFP Wolf 359 Pack". I find that very rude to label someone elses work, as your own merely because you did the hardpoints for the ships (which basically are adjusted hardpoints from another ship, to fit the ship in question).

As for Chief Brex's statement, I totally agree on this point. Problems like these should be discussed in the open, anyone not interested in reading it doesn't even have to click on the thread link. No harm, no fowl. Starforce solution when me and him had a disagreement over MSN, was to ban me for good...

so then comes the question: If were not suppose to discuss matters like these in a public thread such as this one, and the party in question either bans you from the forum in question, urges other admins to ban you, or in my case blocks me from seeing his online status on MSN.... If after all this, where exactly do we discuss matters like these? Hell, we can't even discuss matters like these in "Private" Messages since they aren't even private. Even if a message is directed to one admin/moderator, all admins/moderators have access to reading the message in question. Not very private if I say so myself.

The solution of renaming the filename for the original readme, and include a personalized readme for the mod sounds like a sensible solution to me. However Starforce, with his ego issues see's this as a big hassle and has firmly said NO to resolving the matter in this method. It's no wonder why the community gets split up from being 1 forum, to 4 forums and beyond... This is not the first time the community has been on the verge of diversion, and i'm sure it won't be the last either.
// Darkthunder

Offline Starforce2

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2006, 11:34:53 pm »
You don't get it do you DT? I've said this again, and again, and again. The SFP I put in the filename is to make for easy searching, and in some cases, such as ships with common names, classnames, canon ect to prevent file name conflicts with stuff other people have released that would result in someones game being screwed up. It also differentiates between my version and a version of the same ship done by other people (how many people ahve done the p81 nebula hardpoint? do you want a dialup user to load each page and the pix that go with just to see who or can they Identify mine by the SFP from the index). It has nothing to do with attempting to claim ownership over the model. I have see this done by other teams and modders in the past, here at sfc, and in BC. In some cases the models were authored by the person or team the tag stands for, in others they were not. I've seen DAP tags on ships ported from SFC they didn't make within their own team for instance. Doesn't mean they stole it. I can't help you continue to be too thickheaded to understand the logic in this, nor can I do anything about the fact that you obviously ignore the readme in the mods you mentioned that clearly list who owns what. As for creativity? Well, hardpoints for BC do require atleast some, though I admit my excelior HP's are a master HP with changes listed on a chart I made for bashes that fall into cruiser, destroyer, dreadnoguth, ect sizes and stat changes based on timeline (original excelcior or refit or DS9 upgraded lakota) and I just punch in the values and stamp them about in about 15 minutes each. When ya do 60 of them, you're right, doesn't take much thought any more.

Also, unless you were screwing off at BCfiles, I didn't have you banned from anywhere. I've got no ban authority on any forum outside my own. As I recall you have been banned several times from BCU for a number of offenses which have not even involved me, including warez, and have whittnessed you get away with sending abusive pm's to capt russ and nothing happened when it got reported, not even a warning, all resulting froma  fued over the fact that you don't think he should release a nebula class with 20 different naming options. (hey, you think it should be public, there it is) I also don't believe I've banned you from BCfiles ever, so your claim here is completely false.

As for the community being split between forums BCU and BCC, that had nothing to do with me. That was to do with the technical faults of BCU and several people being unhappy with Ravens rule structure along with a multitude of minor issues I am sure Mark/Ignis can clear up for you. In case you hadn't noticed, this community (SFC) has been here alot longer than BC and it is spread all over. Everyone and their grandmother has a website for hosting files, a forum for discussing their work, and god knows what else scattered all over the net. It doesn't look dead to me. The same applies to Armada.

 It certainly wont be the last forum fight in this community as long as you are still around spreading lies, blaming me for things I had nothing to do with, and making issues on how I pick filenames.

Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2006, 11:52:01 pm »
Imflammatory remarks are getting this nowhere. Is everyone entitled to their opinion ? Yes. But I see nothing good from everyone adding their 2 sense here. I think this should have been handled better by all parties involved. My opinion. The longer this thread goes on the worse this gets. Personally I would like to see it locked so we can move on now that the problem has been rectified. If it haSn't been rectified yet I AM ASKING RIGHT NOW ...PLEASE RECTIFY IT.

ModelsPlease, resident "Model Junkie" recovering from a tragic crayon sharpener accident.

Offline Raven Night

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2006, 05:51:18 am »
I am asking that too. Starforce, do me a favor and add the original readme to the file/s to go along with your readme. I would appreciate it.

As to the BCC/BCU split, I expected this would come up at some point. BCC and BCU are not competitors, at least from BCU's side. We do not need to compete with anyone...BCU is not in a membership contest. One patron or 10000, it will endure for years to come. Other BC sites have come and go, but BCU remains. BCC is a great site, and frankly people that did not like BCU's bugs or my strict moderation style needed a place where they could have more freedom to post what they wish. It gives people a choice, and choice is always good....I for one hope BCC continues on for a long time, and continues to flourish. We continue to promote the site.
Never let your ego think or act for you..........me.


Offline CC22

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2006, 10:59:17 am »
I wont put it in for a number of reasons:

1) I don't want to, and shouldn't need to. There's nothing wrong with the current readme's. Just because YOU didn't write it doesn't make the information in it any more or less correct or important.

2) I have all of the nessecary credit and ship history information posted in the new readme. Whats the difference? 5kb of text is 5kb of text regardless of what file it is in. If you want to talk about childish remarks, refer to the ones you have been making, all over a text file, on 4 different forums. It's just a damn ship for god sake. A ship, BTW, where the vast majority of the work involved belongs to P81 and GAFY, whithout which (or another set of authors of similar quality of which there are not many who have done all of the nessecary parts) "your" 2 ships would exsist in the first place.

3) You've spewed this over 4 forums. Had you not done so I may have been more open to your requests. Now I am not.

Again, you want to say I am being childish? Arguing over who's text file is more important on a fictional starship? Give it up dude. This fight has gotten so pathetic I don't care who "wins" the arugement. Any newbies looking at this right now probably think we are all loosers who need to get laid.


Thats probably put a lot of people off you... although it has been clear in the past what a bad attitude you can have... Theres no need man!
"For I dipt into the future, far as human eye could see, Saw the Vision of the World, and all the wonder that would be..."

Offline S31-Riptide

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2006, 11:46:05 am »
Quote
everything has been said a million and 1 times.


Not true sir....


POOP!!! 

there everything has now been said   LMAO!!!!

Offline KBF-Crim

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Re: Starforce. Check the readme's better next time. (Beware: Rant inside. )
« Reply #52 on: October 27, 2006, 11:55:43 am »
And that is about enough of that...everyone has had their say...and then some...