Topic: DirectX 10 ported to XP?  (Read 4575 times)

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Offline [ISC]Phaser

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DirectX 10 ported to XP?
« on: April 22, 2007, 09:49:46 am »
April 2007

Finally making use of this blog I created almost a year ago. What a busy year it's turned out to be, from the inception of the Alky Project to the creation of Falling Leaf Systems and the Sapling Program.

As a fitting start to this blog, I'm proud to release a preview of our DirectX 10 compatibility libraries. These libraries allow the use of DirectX 10 games on platforms other than Microsoft Vista, and increase hardware compatibility even on Vista, by compiling Geometry Shaders down to native machine code for execution where hardware isn't capable of running it. No longer will you have to upgrade your OS and video card(s) to play the latest games.

The current preview allows you to run a number of examples from the DirectX SDK on Windows XP. They're not the greatest thing since sliced bread, but we want to whet your appetite. We hope to release builds in the coming months progressing from demos to fully functional games. We also plan to post on this blog from time to time with screenshots and videos of what's to come.

The preview build is available here http://fallingleafsystems.com/site_media/preview.zip Inside this zip is a README.TXT file with complete instructions on where to install the files (don't worry, we'll have an installer in the near future) and how to get and run the examples from the SDK.

We at Falling Leaf welcome your feedback, and we're committed to giving you the best high-end gaming experience possible, regardless of OS.

Enjoy,
- Cody Brocious
Lead Alky Engineer

News Source: Alky Project original article can be found at http://testmy.net/t-19265

Offline Rod ONeal

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Re: DirectX 10 ported to XP?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2007, 08:10:27 pm »
Just so I got it... ;)

These DLLs are to allow XP to run DX10, at least to a limited degree, and you are working on making "ideally" all DX10 games run on XP (and Linux/OSX)?

Will these games/apps need to be ported/compiled to work with your stuff or do they simply make these other operating systems DX10 capable?
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Offline Magnum357

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Re: DirectX 10 ported to XP?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2007, 01:49:38 am »
Will these Libraries work with Win98SE too?  I know Win98 is an old OS, but I like it a lot compared to XP and SFC runs just great on it.  I've heard Microsoft wants to cut support competely from there older OS's so I wanted to ask if Win98 users have any luck with DX10?

I may someday purchase a copy of XP, but last I checked its still kinda pricy, even on Ebay.com.   ::)

P.S.  One good thing about about all this, is if DX10 can work with Mac and Linux OS's, that gives us a few more options to work with and possibly open up the user base of SFC if people can get SFC to run on them.   :)
"I sure am glad I like SFB!" - Magnum357 (me)

Offline Lepton

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Re: DirectX 10 ported to XP?
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2007, 10:30:39 pm »
Is any of this legal??  Sounds suspicious to me.


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Offline Nemesis

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Re: DirectX 10 ported to XP?
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2007, 06:18:38 pm »
Is any of this legal??  Sounds suspicious to me.


The only ways in which it would be illegal is if it broke intellectual property laws:

1/ Copyright - unless they used Microsoft code they are in the clear.  If they did use Microsoft code hopefully they will be caught and appropriately punished,

2/ Patents - Many software patents are of questionable validity but it would depend on whether they had both the resources and will to fight it out in court including through inevitable appeals if they win (see the RIM Blackberry case)  (U.S. Supreme Court just made it easier to prove a patent obvious and therefore invalid.)

3/ Trade secrets - It would depend how they came by them.  If they independently discovered them Microsoft has no recourse.  If they came by them innocently Microsoft has no recourse.  If they were revealed to them by Microsoft under a contract that forbade disclosure then they are in trouble.
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: DirectX 10 ported to XP?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2008, 02:16:14 am »
The problem is that XP will only use a few of the DirectX 10 files for playing the game.. the game will access the remainder but will fail to display the DirectX 10 renderings.. this is because the DirectX 10 files will not be registered in the system registry.. and if you do register them, it will break XP and the OS will fail to start..

I have been following this on line for a while.. it will allow XP users and Win 2K3 users to play DirectX 10 games only, however the game will only render on screen for DirectX 9.

so even if you do get it, it will still be only 50% effective. You get Playability, not visually or sound from putting this in..

Also, since it is a rip from Microsoft's DirectX SDK, I would consider that putting it into XP in a grey area.. DirectX 10 is licensed to Vista and Server 2K8 only, not XP.. However, they are both micorosoft products and is freely available for download..

However since microsoft had the site removed, I would argue that this is not "legal" according to the EULA of the Microsoft DirectX SDK.

« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 02:34:51 am by Pestalence_XC »
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Offline Bonk

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Re: DirectX 10 ported to XP?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2008, 08:03:25 am »
That's OK, we still have wine. Granted, directx9 support is not quite complete yet but I am confident it will eventually get there, and then on to directx 10!

http://lwn.net/Articles/242043/

http://code.google.com/opensource/wine.html

http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code-2007-wine/downloads/list  <--- Oh ho! look at this! I think I'd like to give those sound improvements a try if they are not already in the main branch of wine... re: the stuttering sound in SFC:OP on wine...  but regarding this topic... the "Beginning of Direct3D10 implementation" is there... ah the exuberance of youth!  ;D

Interesting that Google is contributing to wine to support picasa - no real surprise though.

http://www.winehq.org/?issue=343#Summer%20of%20Code%20Acceptance  For this summer...

Check this out!:
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=10888
Surprised I haven't come across that before. INtersting to note it appears to have run well under 0.9.55 but not under 0.9.57
Nemesis: http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=10888&iTestingId=22180 (sound familiar?)
Perhaps we should start reporting our results there? To aid in development that might help us get OP running fully. Lepton? Nemesis? Kurok? You-Cheng? I sggest we register and report.

Old gamers are a tenacious lot, but we still need to encourage youth to discover the wonderful world of SFB/SFC . ;)

All good things come to those who wait. (but pitching in wouldn't hurt!)

Note also there are buids of wine for windows:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=6241&package_id=112520
(2 years old mind you, but it can happen again... anyone want to try building 0.9.59 for windows?)

Wine on windows used to seem rather redundant but once wine can support dx10 you can bet interest in windows builds will grow.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 08:32:00 am by Bonk »

Offline KBF-Kurok

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Re: DirectX 10 ported to XP?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2008, 02:38:57 pm »
Sure  bonk ill do what i can im still a total noob tho to linux but im learning still and will be happy to contribute what i can.

Offline Raztax

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Re: DirectX 10 ported to XP?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2008, 05:05:27 pm »
I so wish that gameing was easier in linux. I have ubuntu dual booted with XP. But I am almost alwyas in XP because I game a lot, and it's just easier that way.

Offline Tulwar

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Re: DirectX 10 ported to XP?
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2008, 01:38:07 am »
This is good news.  I have yet to find a newer game that's any fun, but if one comes out, I may be able to play it!  Direct X 10 is a deliberate attempt by MS to make their older OS's obsolete.  Instead, I think it is part of a regiment that is making MS obsolete.

I really don't care what advantages Vista has over XP, for I will never use it.  Vista is a device designed to make one replace their entire software library.  Now they have made an OS that checks every license for every program that you attempt to install, while inflating the prices of their own licenses.  Much of the software you try to port from your old computer may run afoul of the license, or just may no longer be compatable.  Many software developers do not like divulging their registry keys, so you might not be able to remove incompatible programs.  These issues are expensive and time-consuming.

The MS Office released on new computers is evil.  One has to uninstall the "Activation Assistant" before they uninstall Office, or one cannot remove either.  Also, I'm told, it doesn't allow one to run an earlier version of MS Office.  With Open Office being free, and Word Perfect releasing an OEM version of their office suite for $20.00, the standard for the most basic computing software is ready to change.  $149 for MS Office Home and Student?  $299 for Professional?  Do these programs go out and do your research for you?  I'll never know, and I don't care what I'm missing.  As long as I can save in plain text format, anyone should be able to read what I write.

Linux is here.  Now.  Unless one is well-healed enough to afford Red Hat, or something like that, one is likely to have trouble with it, but I see an increasing demand for it.  Having one's local computer shop build an Linux Ubuntu machine from scratch will by-pass a lot of problems and may be much more affordable than trying to work with Vista.  Since the Chinese government uses Linux, and all your computer hardware is made in China, there should not be any irreconcilable compatibility issues.

Except for Sears getting out the catalog business, I have never seen such an attempt at cooperate suicide.  Sears is still around, and Microsoft will be around many years from now.  Linux is comming of age, and Apple has always been a premium alternative.  In three years, when I have finally used up this machine, an MS OS will be the last thing I consider.  I used to buy the cheapest computer in the store, wipe the useless garbage, load my software, and get to work.  After I bought a top-of-the-line Vista machine, I found I would have spent less money going with Apple, or having a custom made machine.  I will not make the same mistake twice.  MS may make a lot more money on Vista per computer, but I doubt their market share will be anything like what it is now in ten years.
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: DirectX 10 ported to XP?
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2008, 03:41:20 am »
Quote
After I bought a top-of-the-line Vista machine, I found I would have spent less money going with Apple, or having a custom made machine. I will not make the same mistake twice. MS may make a lot more money on Vista per computer, but I doubt their market share will be anything like what it is now in ten years.

I do give lessons on how to work Vista..

Vista reequires previous experience with computers and how Operating systems work.. I agree it isn't plug n play like XP was, however Vista is faster and more powerful than XP...

Sure there are program incompatibilities, like programs written VB 6.. and companies complain about their software being broke in Vista because they program in VB.

There are 2 schools of thought on that.

#1. VB 6 allowed you to write sloppy code and get a desired effect on older OS's like XP on down. Vista makes programmers use standards because the OS will not interpret sloppy coding. VB 6 itself was inherently broke on many coding algorithms even in it's own help files and guides.. which is why Microsoft killed it off from support with XPSP 2. Companies still use it along with way outdated DirectX 8.0 runtime libraries to compile it. Net result.. a poor program pawned off on the public which we bought and now complain about because it doesn't work in Vista correctly or at all.

It isn't Vista's fault that it is broke.. it is the programmers who didn't get with programming standards or continue their programming education as advancements were made available.

2. You can install DX7vb.dll and DX8vb.dll into the System32 folder of Vista and then use regserv32 and register them to the system registry.. this will usually fix most vb programs unless the coding of the program itself is fubarred to begin with from freelanced programming code instead of using standardized coding techniques.

Take SFC OP for example.. the game code works just fine with Vista and most game functions have no problems.. however the networking code when dealing with Direct Play (which was written in DirectX 8.0) was for the most part freelanced coding and Vista has a difficult time utilizing it when taling to the Dynaverse 2 server kit. If the source code was available for SFC OP, then the game could be recompiled under Visual C#.net (2K3, 2K5, or 2K7) using DirectX 9.0c SDK and the game may just work correctly because DirectX 9 can communicate much better than DirectX 8 as well as Visual c# (2K7 version at least, I'm not sure about 2K5 or older) will check for erroneous  coding and prompt you to fix it before you compile the program.

Unfortunately the game was written in Visual C# 6 Sp 5 and the runtime libraries were designed for Win 2K SP 1 and DirectX 8.0 (last compatible edition for VC 6).

This is why Vista can not communicate SFC OP Client very well with the Server Kit.


Also, People complain about the UAC pop-ups and disable UAC.. then they complain that their programs broke when they turned UAC off, or the programs were broke with UAC on.

UAC should never be turned off. The recommended method to get rid of the annoyance of UAC it to put it into Quiet Mode. to do this you have to download a program called TweakUAC.exe .. takes 5 seconds.

Second, any program that needs to alter files needs to have Administrator Privileges.. this is easy as well.. just right click the shortcut or the program EXE and select properties, and put a check mark into Run as Administrator. Click OK and that is that.

For programs that use utilities to edit files, you have to change the permission level of the program folder.. Find the folder that your program is in, right click and select Properties, and click on security tab, click Edit and go 1 user at a time and give Full Access permission to using the Apply button.. when done, click OK and your utilities can work the folder and files without a problem.

About 90% of my software works jsut fine in Vista once you LEARN how to use the OS. Vista is not as IDIOT proof as XP.. you actually have to learn how to use it.. just like you had to learn how to drive a car.

As for Vista, the graphics in games are unbelievable.

As for programs.. sure there are some programs that don't work correctly or at all, but Most software developers will give updates for their programs running undr Vista, others offer a newer Vista compliant version that will have an extremely reduced price with a valid CD key.. (I have Nero 6 Full edition, I now have Nero 8 from my Nero 6 CD key and it only cost me $15 to upgrade and DL an ISO of the install CD with a new key).

I'm curious why you bought a Vista machine that did not have MS Office already on it.. Usually most decent systems come with MS Office Home and Student 2007 free (and budget systems have a 90 day trial)...

As for Research.. Vista comes with 1 year of MS Encarta Online for free.

Plus if you really want backwards compatibility, check out my posting in the Engineering forums for Dual Booting Vista with XP.. I have a guide on how to get your system to Dual boot both Operating systems so you have backward compatibility under XP and future compatibility under Vista.. All you need is your Vista disk (Manufacturers OEM or retail), Your XP disk (Retail or system builders OEM version, not Manufacturer OEM), and my installation guide.. Takes about 2 to 3 hours to get everything installed.. but the guide is step by step adn very easy to do.. mostly you wait on your HDD partitioning.. And the great thing is that you do not have to reinstall Vista.. you can make your system into a Dual Boot without losing any data that you already have in Vista.

So there are many solutions to your Vista experience.. the Internet is your teacher.. use it and become wise.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: DirectX 10 ported to XP?
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2008, 04:49:43 am »
About 90% of my software works jsut fine in Vista once you LEARN how to use the OS. Vista is not as IDIOT proof as XP.. you actually have to learn how to use it.. just like you had to learn how to drive a car.

That is one of the problems.  People think that they know how to use WIndows and don't think that they should have to relearn how to use the basic features that they already know.  Rather like a car, unless you switch to a standard from an automatic there is little relearning needed when changing models and if Ford suddenly started changing the control systems and forcing you to relearn their sales would plummet.  The Microsoft Monopoly lets Microsoft change the rules like this which they would not be able to do in a market with real competition.  Even with the monopoly Microsoft is facing resistance, which is why XP sales were continued past the Microsoft mandated cutoff date.

Microsoft has not, from what I have seen, done anything to let "Joe Average" know that the new Windows is a different thing and that they won't be able to do everything the same way or that programs won't "just work" but will require customizing that the user will need to learn. For "Joe Average" it doesn't really matter if things are better because they won't see or understand the ways in which it is better.

For some this break in continuity will be an opportunity to break away from Windows and go to other operating systems like Apples OS/X or Linux.
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: DirectX 10 ported to XP?
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2008, 03:51:44 pm »
About 90% of my software works jsut fine in Vista once you LEARN how to use the OS. Vista is not as IDIOT proof as XP.. you actually have to learn how to use it.. just like you had to learn how to drive a car.

That is one of the problems. People think that they know how to use WIndows and don't think that they should have to relearn how to use the basic features that they already know. Rather like a car, unless you switch to a standard from an automatic there is little relearning needed when changing models and if Ford suddenly started changing the control systems and forcing you to relearn their sales would plummet. The Microsoft Monopoly lets Microsoft change the rules like this which they would not be able to do in a market with real competition. Even with the monopoly Microsoft is facing resistance, which is why XP sales were continued past the Microsoft mandated cutoff date.

Microsoft has not, from what I have seen, done anything to let "Joe Average" know that the new Windows is a different thing and that they won't be able to do everything the same way or that programs won't "just work" but will require customizing that the user will need to learn. For "Joe Average" it doesn't really matter if things are better because they won't see or understand the ways in which it is better.

For some this break in continuity will be an opportunity to break away from Windows and go to other operating systems like Apples OS/X or Linux.

You're right.. You don't have to relearn how to drive a new car.. You wiper switch was on the dash, now it is on the left turn signal switch, now it is on the right on a switch, now it is on the steering wheel.. Damn.. it's raining, where is that wiper switch.

The radio is in the center of the dash.. now it is at the bottom of the dash, now it is at the top of the dash.. Damn.. now it is built into a touch screen along with the GPS..

I adjust the side mirrors with my hand manually, now it has a cable driven knob by the window.. now it has and electric window with the control on the door arm rest.. now the control is on the dash right of the steering wheel..

My seat can't move, now my seat slides back and forth, now my seat height adjusts, now my seat reclines, now my seat is heated, now my seat has lumbar support

Every time you get a new car, you have to re-learn all the controls of the car.. even the location of where the key goes has changed location, if it even takes a key anymore.

The basic operation of the car is the same, but you still have to learn everything else.. Acceleration curve, turn ratio, the tilt of the cab at different speeds, the way the suspension feels.. Nope you don't have to learn how to drive a new car.

Same goes for Vista.. it is the new car.

It is an OS that works just like the old OS, only with much higher standards for programs ... the features are changed some from the previous model and you have to learn how to work them.

I agree that Microsoft is not advertising Vista the way they should.. but it is unrealistic for a new OS to work just like the old OS.. if it did, there would be no need for the new OS.

change breeds innovation and innovation breeds change.. it works hand in hand.. You can't stagnate something because you lose the ability to operate 10 year old programs.. Just think if the Military was using computers from 1968 still.. Nope they had to change with the technology.. same with software..they had to update their software as technology progressed, update the computer, replace it if necessary, get new software.. it is an endless cycle.. but people are complaining about it instead of adapting and trying to learn.

Vista is a fast and powerful OS.. not as backward compatible as XP was, but then again, I happen to like the new Vista only software coming out.. I also like my old games that don't work in Vista.. so as a compromise.. I have both Vista and XP on my box..

Vista is superior to XP.. the problem is that people haven't taken the time to learn how to use it and they don't want to learn. We have bread a nation of people that think learning something new will end the world..

Personally, I can't stand not learning.. It makes me feel stupid and idiotic.. I can't see how people live their lives like that..
« Last Edit: May 18, 2008, 04:33:05 pm by Pestalence_XC »
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Offline Just plain old Punisher

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Re: DirectX 10 ported to XP?
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2008, 09:04:29 pm »
Eh, it usually isn't worth the performance hit to use DX10 textures/rendering, unless you have a kick ass video card.

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