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#### Nemesis

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##### Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« on: April 23, 2007, 09:33:46 pm »
Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.

1. Update every single piece of software on my system with a single action.

2. Update nearly everything on my computer without a reboot.

3. Keep my system secure without software that consumes my system resources, requires my time, and frequently nags me.

4. Run an entire operating system for free without pirating software, and without breaking the law.

5. Take my settings with me where ever I go.

6. Run Internet Explorer 5.0, 5.5, 6.0, and 7.0 on the same desktop.

7. Understand everything that is going on in my computer.

8. Customize every aspect of my desktop.

9. Benefit from competition between projects for each system on my computer.

10. Run thousands of great pieces of software that only run on Linux.

11. Learn about, support, and appreciate the value of free software.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
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I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
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#### GE-Raven

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##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2007, 12:05:39 pm »
Heh...  then a meany comes along and says...

Things you can't do on Linux...

1.  Play 99% of the games made in the past 10 years.
2.  Put it on the "average" end users workstation and expect them to function.
3.  Expect support from a trained professional because you payed for such support.

Now I am sure you will have exceptions to all three (as I indeed can see obvious exceptions to your 10)  However I have often said that Linux is a great open source operating system.  However I find comparing it to Windows kind of like looking at a Go Cart and comparing it to a Lexus.  Sure the Go cart may be faster, you know what ever part does, and it may even be far more versatile than a Lexus... but people who buy a Lexus will never much care to hop in the worlds best Go Cart.

All a  matter of taste a suppose.  I could change the oil in my car... but why?  My time is worth more than the $15 I spend to have it done by a professional. GE-Raven #### Lepton • Lt. Commander • Posts: 1620 ##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows. « Reply #2 on: April 27, 2007, 01:07:52 pm » Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows. 1. Update every single piece of software on my system with a single action. Or break your entire operating system if the multitudinous updates goes awry Quote 2. Update nearly everything on my computer without a reboot. Unless the particular distro requires you to. Ubuntu for instance. Quote 3. Keep my system secure without software that consumes my system resources, requires my time, and frequently nags me. There are frequent updates to linux distros and they certainly can be annoying Quote 4. Run an entire operating system for free without pirating software, and without breaking the law. Does that include playing DVDs? I don't think so. Quote 6. Run Internet Explorer 5.0, 5.5, 6.0, and 7.0 on the same desktop. Why would you want to?? Quote 7. Understand everything that is going on in my computer. Maybe you do, but I don't and I'd prefer to not know. The problem with linux is that there is too much I have to know to run it effectively or troubleshoot problems that arise Quote 8. Customize every aspect of my desktop. If you are willing to put in the effort and potentially hose your OS. Beryl/Compix are not ready for prime time and not user-friendly to install and use. Quote 9. Benefit from competition between projects for each system on my computer. Or suffer from fragmented and at times conflicting developments in operating systems and applications. I wish linux just worked. Often it does, but often it doesn't. Try to do something simple like listen to streaming radio over the web. Windows; it's very easy. Linux; nearly impossible. Quote 10. Run thousands of great pieces of software that only run on Linux. That does not include the real stuff I do the most on my computer which is play games. I like linux. I like Ubuntu, but I wish more time was spent making linux just work for what you need it to do rather than small upgrades and changes in desktop managers and whiz-bang effects. I could care less what things look like. I just want it to work. For a number of things it just doesn't for me. « Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 12:26:51 am by Lepton » System Specs: Dell Dimension E521 AMD64x2 5000+ 2G DDR2 RAM ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB GDDR3 250GB SATA HD #### Dash Jones • Sub-Commander of the Dark Side • Captain • Posts: 6477 • Gender: ##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows. « Reply #3 on: April 28, 2007, 05:05:17 pm » Heh... then a meany comes along and says... Things you can't do on Linux... 1. Play 99% of the games made in the past 10 years. 2. Put it on the "average" end users workstation and expect them to function. 3. Expect support from a trained professional because you payed for such support. Now I am sure you will have exceptions to all three (as I indeed can see obvious exceptions to your 10) However I have often said that Linux is a great open source operating system. However I find comparing it to Windows kind of like looking at a Go Cart and comparing it to a Lexus. Sure the Go cart may be faster, you know what ever part does, and it may even be far more versatile than a Lexus... but people who buy a Lexus will never much care to hop in the worlds best Go Cart. All a matter of taste a suppose. I could change the oil in my car... but why? My time is worth more than the$15 I spend to have it done by a professional.

GE-Raven

Funny...

I can play more games on Linux than ON WINDOWS VISTA, the newest Microsoft OS.  And with Wine, they have many of the major game releases playable on Linux.  Ironically Vista is really bad for games.  Does that mean you can't play 99.9% of the games EVER released on Vista...whereas probably 60% of all games EVER released are playable on Linux?

You might be right on the average workstation...or not.  Mepis seems to be able to install anywhere in just about any fashion, even straight from the CD, with mouse and video support.  Has a tetris like game that comes with it too.
Much easier to use and boot than windows even.  What do you qualify as Average.  There is MORE than just one version of Linux by the way, some are easier and some harder than others to use.  I think you're forgetting the easier ones, or simply just didn't know they existed.

On trained support...

Hmm...NEVER had that with MS either.  I've called them before in trying to install XP, recently even, when they wanted the XP version to be "authorized" from an official copy.  Had to download a hardcopy of SP2 and install for the official version to finally update...NO THANKS to the supposedly Professionals at MS who had NO IDEA what was wrong except trying to accuse people of theft (idiots).

So...exactly what professional support are you talking about?

I've actually had less need of support from the Linux than from Windows too...if that's what you are referring too.  There's no need for pro support if the OS doesn't have problems.

However, there IS MORE user support from those who actually KNOW what is happening for Linux than for Windows in my experience thus far.  Windows has a website which if you know how to use the search function, and are technically skilled you normally can figure it out by the seat of your pants...

Luckily Linux has more forums where you don't have to spend days trying to figure out what's wrong with the OS...someone usually has already encountered the bug and can answer it for you.

Just in defense of Linux, not to put down Windows any (well except for Vista...that one currently stinks major you know what).
"All hominins are hominids, but not all hominids are hominins."

"Is this a Christian perspective?

Now where in the Bible does it say if someone does something stupid you should shoot them in the face?"

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#### Nemesis

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##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2007, 07:42:46 pm »
Guys that link was not totally serious.

Quote
Since I often hear from friends and people on the Internet about things they can't do in Linux that they could on Windows, I thought I'd write up a list of things I can do in Linux that I can't do in Windows.

That said I will address some points that were raised.

Quote
Or break your entire operating system if the multitudinous updates goes awry

Happens to Windows to.  Why do you think I stopped using IE?  It was back on Windows 98SE and an IE update broke my ability to access the Internet with all other programs.  I reverted to a backup and installed Mozilla and was guite happy with it until I switched to Firefox.

Quote
There are frequent updates to linux distros and they certainly can be annoying

Then don't update at every chance maybe?  Update when you see issues that affect you.  Most updates will involve programs that you don't use and may not have installed.

Quote
Does that include playing DVDs?  I don't think so.

See Hollywood about that or ... use a commercial Linux rather than a free one that comes with that ability.  It can be done but the big media companies threaten to sue anyone into the ground who distributes a free player.

Quote
Or suffer from fragmented and at times conflicting developments in operating systems and applications.  I wish linux just worked.  Often it does, but often it doesn't.  Try to do something simple like listen to streaming radio over the web.  Windows; it's very easy.  Linux; nearly impossible.

Like with the DVD player - use a commercial version.  Linspire for example and play Windows Media (part of the settlement with Microsoft where Microsoft paid them to let the lawsuit Microsoft started be dropped) and other media with commercial programs.  Ubuntu which you mentioned earlier is being given or has been given the ability to purchase and use these programs from Linspire.

Linux supports standards - Microsoft breaks them.

Quote
1.  Play 99% of the games made in the past 10 years.

What percentage of those games will be working on Vista now?  For myself I've been pushed increasingly away from games as I won't submit to Microsofts control fetish and upgrade to a Windows newer than my 2000Pro.  If I must sacrifice computer games for my freedom and privacy so be it.

Quote
2.  Put it on the "average" end users workstation and expect them to function.

Depends on what you call average.  Most people know how to log on and use a handful of programs.  Web browser, E-mail (maybe through the web) and an office suite.  If they are not total idiots they can learn to do that on Linux or Mac with relative ease.

The ones that have real problems converting often have upgrade issues within Windows/Office as the macros and Visual basic programs that their IT stuff or contractors have created for them get broken.

Quote
3.  Expect support from a trained professional because you payed for such support.

As Dash mentioned there are companies that support Linux.

Also as Dash mentioned Microsoft doesn't always succeed either.  For example what was the official Microsoft "fix" for Win98 failing to shut down cleanly and leaving you at the "You may now turn off your computer screen" left over from Win95?  "Reformat and reinstall" and then do it again each time the issue recurrs.  It seems that is all too often their fix.  It took me 10 minutes to deduce a fix and test it the first time (uninstall power management and reboot - it gets detected and reinstalled).  Why couldn't Microsoft come up with a fix?

Why am *I* moving to Linux - Freedom.  Not free from cost but free from MY COMPUTER being controlled by a convicted illegal monoplist with a control fetish.  If the shackles are comfortable for you feel free to wear them but do not object to those of us on whom the shackles have become too onerous breaking free and having our own rebellions and tea parties.

+1  to you all
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### KBF MalaK

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##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2007, 08:00:07 pm »
I tried Linux once- redhat 9 and 9.1, took me 3 days to figure out how to get a second hard drive into the file system..

Never again.

I hate windows too but nobody's going back to DOS soon, so I'll just wait until windows get replaced by something that actually works- without the need for a programming degree to use it.

...on in the case of vista, laugh.
"Artificial Intelligence is not a suitable substitute for natural stupidity"

#### Lepton

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##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2007, 12:57:32 am »
I'm sorry but I have never broken my windows installation and the example that is cited is for an ancient operating system, whereas I have broken my various linux installs any number of times just trying to get things to work.  At this stage in linux, I shouldn't have to manually enter a screen resolution into my xorg.conf file to get it to work especially when gnome is giving me the option to switch to that resolution in the screen resolution manager, yet I do indeed have to enter 1280x800 manually.  It's preposterous.  This is the simple crap that should have been sorted out ages ago, yet here we are.

And yes, we all know Vista is a pile of crap, and yes, we'd all prefer to be on linux, but why oh why can't I do something so simple such as watch and listen to streaming content without a hassle or change my bloody screen resolution?  It's ridiculous.

System Specs:

Dell Dimension E521
AMD64x2 5000+
2G DDR2 RAM
ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB GDDR3
250GB SATA HD

#### Dash Jones

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##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2007, 03:16:52 am »
That's odd, you must be using a different version of Linux than Me...

I've NEVER had to manually enter a change in resolution on Linux.  I HAVE had windows screw up so badly in XP that it gets a higher resolution than a monitor can show and suddenly, I have NOTHING to see.  Sure the computer is running, but I can't see anything. MS's answer...reinstall...delete the old install of the OS...and reinstall a new one...

Riiiiiight.  Great solution.  In otherwords...they have NO fix for it.  That's broken. (Even I had a better solution than that which I used ultimately, but that applies for almost all of the problems I've had with MS OS's that are listed below).

OH THAT's RIGHT...there are DIFFERENT OS's out there, most of which fall under Linux, and only a few that fall under Windows, inclusive of Vista.

XP?  Oh that one, that one locked me out after a month if I didn't "register" it.  Than I can't access ANYTHING.  Oh, that's a real useful OS.  ONe that doesn't even work after a month.  So I have to register myself with MS and authorize it so I fall on their database...so much for privacy.  Even than, with an original XP copy now, I STILL will get locked out if I try to go online with it since it refuses to "authorize" now, unless I manually update it to SP2, and then, and ONLY then will it work..and even qualify under WGA.

MS's answer original...it must be pirated...or...no answer at all...

I have the packaging and the codes for it...Oh, and of course once SP2 was installed...it had no problems being "authorized"

MS's answer...oh...that didn't happen...(my arse it didn't...).

Lucky for you MS had a lawsuit...or you wouldn't be able to watch the streaming video on your Windows anyways today seeing they pirated that stuff and got the stuffings sued out of them.

Vista is worse however...

I actually would be much more pro MS if they weren't so hostile towards the users after XP came out.  I prefer Western Companies to Asian ones and would much prefer them to be successful.  However MS's hostility in regards to many of the customer ideals under the shadow of stopping piracy is BS in the West.  There IS piracy, but a majority of the world's piracy is in Asia (where interestingly enough you have been able to get legit copies of WinXP without authorization due to deals MS made...).

I have broken a Windows XP version just recently.  I actually got a light blue screen (lighter than the win9X screens of yesteryear) which told me that I had a critical failure in Windows and it was unable to initialize.

Much of this is because I do video editing and programing amongst other items on the computers which probably far exceed what most would do...

But XP IS much easier for me to break and get a blue screen of critical failure than the versions of Linux I use.

XP has a LOT of crud that should have been sorted out ages ago.

What's worse is that people are so blindly supporting things in MS that they feel that they can come out with a system that compounds MANY of these same faults in the form of Vista.

I would like it if MS would get off their high horse, and come back to their roots of catering to the consumer.  I too am a gamer, massively overall.  Currently Vista offers NOTHING for me...and I must admit due to second party programs and iniatives (which MS has been trying to kill, that's what they did with Vista and WHY it's so broken, they disabled all second party programs that enabled games to work) XP has become the best system for gaming, and beats linux by far.

For gamers...XP is the king right now.

For moviemakers however, XP is one of the worst OS's, if not the worst out there.  It is MUCH worse than Linux.  Mac is actually king over Movie making right now (and the ultimate Movie Machine I use for is now a Mac, costing 17,999 USD, which isn't even the best one out there).

I would be one of the biggest MS fanatics however if they would stop some of the stupid BS they've been doing and still pursuing in Vista (and is the entire reason why Vista blows currently for gamers, because MS is trying to enforce what they've been wanting to do which is make non-compatibility with other's programs so one is forced to use theirs...sounds good for business, but actually is bad because it makes for a bad OS).  You would think they would learn that the reason gamers are using XP now (and it was 9X before XP eventually became compatible) was because it offered something Linux didn't, compatibility with programs that came out.

The do away with the dumb Authorization stupidity (which has caused me problems WITH LEGIT copies of XP sold to me directly BY MS years ago), and stop trying to put an end to compatibility with programs on purpose (note XP was also unpopular at first for the same reasons of non-compatibility, they eventually got off their high horse probably because they saw sales would be better if they allowed compatibility, and came out with SPs and other patches that made games run better) and I'd be a rabid fan.

Probably also make Windows better for video editing too if they'd start allowing compatibility with some formats which run and compress better under other OS's currently.  That's something that you might not realize, it's easier to compress and stream from another OS (not necessarily a free Linux however) than Windows.

In fact the forerunner of good Movie watching and making in the industry is over at Apple instead of at MS currently, which is why trailers many times come out on QT much earlier than on a Windows authorized program.

Anyways, I've said enough.  I AM ultimately an MS fan, even if it doesn't sound like it.  I actually respect Mr. Gates a LOT.  I don't like what many of his VPs and other business runners do however.

The current run of Vista has me running Linux on all new computers until They start getting Vista more compatible, either that or no amount of respect will get me to invest in Vista heavily.  At that point I might as well move to Macs completely, or Linux machines.  That's probably my main gripe.  Got hosed by Vista and hence was driven to Linux.
"All hominins are hominids, but not all hominids are hominins."

"Is this a Christian perspective?

Now where in the Bible does it say if someone does something stupid you should shoot them in the face?"

-------

We have whale farms in Jersey.   They're called McDonald's.

There is no "I" in team. There are two "I"s in Vin Diesel. screw you, team.

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2007, 05:46:21 am »
I'm sorry but I have never broken my windows installation and the example that is cited is for an ancient operating system, whereas I have broken my various linux installs any number of times just trying to get things to work.

Ancient version of Windows?  Perhaps.  But since I refuse to "upgrade" to WinXP or later from my Win2000Pro any such experience from me will be "ancient".  Just yesterday I had to reboot that Win2000Pro machine as for no apparent reason the (Microsoft) trackball suddenly was not working.

My brother-in-law however sells computers and like Dash he has had his XP fail to validate and Microsoft insisted he had to buy a new copy until he said "%&** you - I have a Redhat Linux here and I'm going to put it on all 6 computers", then they gave him validation codes for all 6 machines even though only one had failed to validate.

Unlike you I have found my Linux installations "unbreakable" and my Windows systems very breakable.  When I came home after a power failure lasted longer than my UPS capacity the Windows machine wouldn't load the 2000Pro as it had corrupted a file.  The Linux machine with a journalling file system found and repaired equivalent defects and though it took longer than usual to boot it did in fact boot.  I then used it to search online for a fix for the Windows machine.  Windows apparently does back up that file in case of corruption - its up to you to find it and replace the orignal to fix it though.  (File name forgotten it has been awhile).

For the original SETI the Windows client ran faster (~10%) on Linux using Wine than on Windows.  For some purposes Linux/Wine is a better Windows than Windows itself.

At this stage in linux, I shouldn't have to manually enter a screen resolution into my xorg.conf file to get it to work especially when gnome is giving me the option to switch to that resolution in the screen resolution manager, yet I do indeed have to enter 1280x800 manually.  It's preposterous.  This is the simple crap that should have been sorted out ages ago, yet here we are.

Very strange as I change screen resolution on my OpenSuse Linux 10.1 (KDE) in a very similar way to how I do it on my Windows machine.  Right click on the desktop, choose configure desktop, click display and there front and center is a scrollable list of screen resolutions.  I find the scrollable list much better than the Windows slider bar where you can bypass the desired resolution repeatedly while trying to get the one you choose.

And yes, we all know Vista is a pile of crap, and yes, we'd all prefer to be on linux, but why oh why can't I do something so simple such as watch and listen to streaming content without a hassle or change my bloody screen resolution?  It's ridiculous.

As stated earlier see Hollywood (the MPAA) and the music industry (RIAA) and Microsofts non support of standards.  Due to the MPAA and RIAA penchant for sueing over such things as freely available DVD player software and the requirement to support Microsoft proprietary "standards" by those who do streaming it is difficult to legally do so in a free distribution.  Linspire however as I stated does so support them as a paid distribution with a Microsoft license for the MS-WMA "standard".

Look up the saga of "DVD Jon" for a good example of why DVD support is lacking in free software.  In Norway he was tried in court not once, not twice but 3 times for cracking the DVD encryption.  Why?  Because U.S. big media companies used every bit of pressure they could bring to bear and kept having his innocence set aside and new trials called for.  After 3 failed attempts they were no longer able to continue charging him.

Under the U.S. DMCA (digital millenium copyright act) it is illegal to own any device that can be used for bypassing copy protection.  Due to the weak (if not outright stupid) "copy protection" systems used that effectively makes Sharpie pens and shift keys on WIndows computers illegal.  So far no once has pushed it though so you are unlikely to go to jail for owning either but strictly by the law you could

So is it any wonder that any company that wants to distribute into the U.S. does not support a free DVD player on Linux or proprietary streaming media formats?  They want to stay out of court.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### Lepton

• Lt. Commander
• Posts: 1620
##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2007, 10:08:01 am »
I am sorry, but you guys are whistling in the dark.  Go on any support site for a popular linux distribution and you will see that people often, often post about broken installations due to updates, distribution upgrades, and having to mess with manual edits to X configuration files.  Don't deny the facts.  It's a common occurrence.

And FYI, in the past I have used Debian and Ubuntu.  With the latest Ubuntu distro Feisty Faun 7.04, I had to manually enter my screen resolution into the xorg.conf file.  It's a very popular distribution and it can't do this simple thing on its own with me having to go into sudo to do it.  That is not user-friendly.

Some time ago, I was trying to get a GIS program to work under Ubuntu that I believe required a newer library for some graphics format, png or gif, which one I can't remember.  After attempting to upgrade the libraries and failing to under apt, I tried to do it all manually and was never able to fix the libraries.  This broke my desktop as gnome depended on the graphics file format that had broken. So I had no sensible icons of any sort.  Somewhere along the line in attempting to restore the installation, I broke the whole installation, and tried after many attempts to recover basic X windows functionality and gnome, I gave up and just reinstalled the whole OS.  Frankly, it should not be possible to break something as simple as a graphics library to meet some other software dependency.  This is the problem with Linux, no consistent development environment.  Everyone's got the freedom to do as they please and this places the entire onus on the user to just make it work.  Further, it shouldn't be possible to break crucial systems like this to meet dependencies or for any other reason.

And this is only one personal example that I can cite for you.  There are many others.  I realize that Linux is often more efficient and has many beneficial social and economic benefits tied to its use, however until the OS can do something as simple as probe my hardware to detect screen resolutions and allow me to change those resolutions simply and do something as simple as manage multiple streaming file formats and allow for easy access under any web browser, it will never be what we would like it to be, the OS of choice for most, rather than the technological fringe.

System Specs:

Dell Dimension E521
AMD64x2 5000+
2G DDR2 RAM
ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB GDDR3
250GB SATA HD

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2007, 10:45:13 am »
I am sorry, but you guys are whistling in the dark.  Go on any support site for a popular linux distribution and you will see that people often, often post about broken installations due to updates, distribution upgrades, and having to mess with manual edits to X configuration files.  Don't deny the facts.  It's a common occurrence.

Go to support sites for Windows and 2 common methods of fixing problems are editing the registry and "reformat and reinstall".   Considering that Microsoft limits the number of reinstalls under XP and later having to reinstall eventually forces you to pay Microsoft even though the reinstall is their fault not yours.

How is editing the registry any better than editing X config files?  At least the X config is a standard text file and can be edited by whatever text processor you like.  Can you edit the registry with anything other than regedit and perhaps a hex editor?

And this is only one personal example that I can cite for you.  There are many others.  I realize that Linux is often more efficient and has many beneficial social and economic benefits tied to its use, however until the OS can do something as simple as probe my hardware to detect screen resolutions and allow me to change those resolutions simply

Linux does probe mine successfully on both my NEC monitor and the older Sony.  It just works.  What is your hardware that Linux doesn't handle it?

On the same basis why can't Windows probe my monitor and set it up?  Why do I have manually show it where a *.inf file is for it?  Why even in spite of that being setup does Windows run my monitor out of range in safe mode?  Linux just works with it.

Why does the Windows install insist that my HD Controller device driver be on a floppy rather than on any type of media if it isn't supported by Microsofts install CD?  Microsoft has been calling the floppy obsolete for nearly 10 years but at least as far as XP this is still true, unless you know enough to remaster the install CD with the right controller.   Linux just works with it and I have been informed that if it didn't then you can point the installer to whatever source you like from floppy to network location.

and do something as simple as manage multiple streaming file formats and allow for easy access under any web browser, it will never be what we would like it to be, the OS of choice for most, rather than the technological fringe.

Which as I have twice already pointed out you can do using paid versions of Linux that can distribute those programs without being sued to death.

How often do you need to defragment your Windows HD?  With Linux defraging is not an issue.  When is Microsoft going to get an up to date file system that does not fragment significantly and does have journalling?

When I log on as root KDE warns me of the dangers of running as root.  XP and earlier don't, how about Vista?  A great deal of Windows software makes running as Administrator a requirement.

How often does your Linux "call home" to the distributor compared to Windows?  When you install a patch does it call home like patches to XP do?  When has Linux ever failed to operate because the distributor says it is a "pirated version" due to some unverified software check?

Does your Linux EULA forbid you to run the software in a virtual machine unless you buy the "Premium" versions?  Does the EULA take away rights that copyright LAW gives you or does the Linux EULA in fact extend more rights to you than the law requires?  Recent Microsoft patch/update EULAs have forbidden downgrading to the older version. (specifically has been done with Mediaplayer.)  All Microsoft EULAs add restrictions beyond what the law does.

So you see that Windows too has its issues.  Issues concerning my freedom and my control of MY computer and my privacy.  Not to mention feeding money to a convicted, unrepentant abusive monopolist that has so far avoided documenting interoperation protocols as ordered by both the U.S. courts and the EU courts.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### Lepton

• Lt. Commander
• Posts: 1620
##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2007, 12:53:28 pm »
I think you are missing my primary point.  No doubt people can and do experience problems with their Windows installation, but I personally have never broken my Windows install, while you and I know for a fact that this is easily done under Linux, if not common.  I have never needed to do a reg edit.  I have had to enter the terminal to fix things that apt or other things have broken or failed to update completely.  To the degree that this experience is common and I believe it is, Linux will never be the OS of choice.  Also to the degree, that simple things like configuring screen resolutions requires altering system files manually, Linux will never be the OS of choice.

None of the Windows problems that you cite have been my experience, nor do I believe they are most people's experience of Windows.  If you can't acknowledge the shortcomings of Linux honestly, then I cannot really take your comments seriously.  I realize Windows has any number of technical and ethical issue attached to it, but to the degree that rather simple operations cannot be accomplished under Linux, it will not be the OS choice for the masses.

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#### Nemesis

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##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2007, 01:39:01 pm »
I think you are missing my primary point.  No doubt people can and do experience problems with their Windows installation, but I personally have never broken my Windows install, while you and I know for a fact that this is easily done under Linux, if not common.

I do not know from my own experience that you can break Linux easily.  You may have done so but that does not mean I have either done so or seen it.

I have been called on many times by friends and co-workers to help them fix their Windows machines that they or software they have used have "hosed".  I've never had to do so on Linux.

Your being lucky enough never to destroy your Windows system does not invalidate the experiences of others such as myself who have seen them so destroyed.

I have never needed to do a reg edit.  I have had to enter the terminal to fix things that apt or other things have broken or failed to update completely.  To the degree that this experience is common and I believe it is, Linux will never be the OS of choice.  Also to the degree, that simple things like configuring screen resolutions requires altering system files manually, Linux will never be the OS of choice.

You are lucky never to have needed regedit.  I have many times as I suspect many here have.

I have never had to edit the X-conf manually on Linux.  I have edited the Samba configuration files to make it work with my Windows though but that it partially because Microsoft doesn't document their networking settings and changes them between versions.

None of the Windows problems that you cite have been my experience, nor do I believe they are most people's experience of Windows.

I have seen them on Windows but have not seen the things you cite on Linux.  I don't deny that they happened to you but that only means that you were unlucky not that everyone is.

If you can't acknowledge the shortcomings of Linux honestly, then I cannot really take your comments seriously.  I realize Windows has any number of technical and ethical issue attached to it, but to the degree that rather simple operations cannot be accomplished under Linux, it will not be the OS choice for the masses.

Now you have crossed the line by calling me a liar.  I have IN EVERY WAY BEEN HONEST in my responses to you.  I may at times make mistakes but I am very honest.

You may not be aware of it but as Moderator for Engineering I have warned people for stating things as fact about Microsoft that were only their opinion because I refuse to tolerate a false attack on Microsoft or anyone else.  I do my best to treat everyone fairly and honestly even to the point of defending Microsoft when people were critizing them unfairly, I have as you can see from that link at times even praised them.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
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FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2007, 02:06:21 pm »
Here is an example for you Lepton of one of the reasons Linux has trouble with some things.  It might open your eyes a bit.

Quote
ACPI (Advanced Configuration and Power Interface) is an open industry specification co-developed by Hewlett-Packard, Intel, Microsoft, Phoenix, and Toshiba.

ACPI establishes industry-standard interfaces enabling OS-directed configuration, power management, and thermal management of mobile, desktop, and server platforms.

When first published in 1999, ACPI evolved an existing collection of power management BIOS code, Advanced Power Management (APM) application programming interfaces (APIs), PNPBIOS APIs, and Multiprocessor Specification (MPS) tables into a well-defined power management and configuration interface specification.

Notice that this is an industry standard one that Linux should be easily able to work with but hasn't.  Why not?  The answer is linked to below.

Text of an E-mail by Bill Gates.  January 24, 1999.
Quote
One thing I find myself wondering about is whether we shouldn't try and make the "ACPI" extensions somehow Windows specific.  If seems unfortunate if we do this work and get our partners to do the work and the result is that Linux works great without having to do the work.  Maybe there is no way Io avoid this problem but it does bother me.  Maybe we couid define the APIs so that they work well with NT and not the others even if they are open.  Or maybe we could patent something relaled to this.

Anti-trust violation and perverting of a supposedly open standard by an abusive monopolist specifically to block Linux.  Even 8 years ago Gates saw Linux as a threat and was willing to break the law to stop it.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### Lepton

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##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2007, 10:50:17 pm »

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#### Dash Jones

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##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2007, 11:16:19 pm »
I don't use ubuntu.  I don't use the ubuntu OS.  I use other linux versions.

Sorry you had a bad experience with Linux.
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Now where in the Bible does it say if someone does something stupid you should shoot them in the face?"

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#### GE-Raven

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##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2007, 07:50:41 am »
I don't use ubuntu.  I don't use the ubuntu OS.  I use other linux versions.

Sorry you had a bad experience with Linux.

And this statement (in a nutshell) is why open source is never going to be a viable alternative to the general populous.

"Hey Bob, you are good with computers, can you come over and help me with mine tonight?"
"What OS you got, Jake?"
"Unbuntu release 6.66"
"Oh... you see I am a redhat man, that or mandrake"
"So you can't help me?"
Well you might want to check their forums, they are pretty good"
"Yeah, well, already did that, and frankly I didn't understand a thing they were talking about."
"well you could always reinstall Redhat..."

Open source normally = huge amount of customization.  Which = lack of standardization.  This why I have always said that monopolies are bad, but they sure make life easier.

GE-Raven

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2007, 07:13:23 pm »
I don't use ubuntu.  I don't use the ubuntu OS.  I use other linux versions.

Sorry you had a bad experience with Linux.

And this statement (in a nutshell) is why open source is never going to be a viable alternative to the general populous.

"Hey Bob, you are good with computers, can you come over and help me with mine tonight?"
"What OS you got, Jake?"
"Unbuntu release 6.66"
"Oh... you see I am a redhat man, that or mandrake"
"So you can't help me?"
Well you might want to check their forums, they are pretty good"
"Yeah, well, already did that, and frankly I didn't understand a thing they were talking about."
"well you could always reinstall Redhat..."

Open source normally = huge amount of customization.  Which = lack of standardization.  This why I have always said that monopolies are bad, but they sure make life easier.

GE-Raven

Be fair Raven.  Lepton is making a complaint about Linux to two relative novices not experts and when asked what hardware he has didn't respond.  He also is complaining that editing a text file to fix a problem is too difficult.  Would you expect a novice Windows 2000 user to be able to diagnose and fix a Windows XP problem with as little info as Lepton is providing?  Do you really think that editing a text file is any more difficult than editing the registry on Windows?  Not to mention his repeated complaints that a free version of Linux that cannot legally in the U.S. distribute the programs to play streaming media can't do it.  For that he either must learn to acquire the programs and install them himself or BUY a version that can legally contain those programs without being sued to death (as previously mentioned).  I even mentioned a distribution that he could buy to do those things but was ignored.

Linux isn't perfect of course but neither is Windows.

Linux can do things Windows can't.  Bootable CD/USB Drive versions for example.  So it seems understandable if Windows can do some things Linux can't.  Especially when you take into account Microsoft acting behind the scenes to sabotage Linux as that E-Mail from Bill Gates I linked to makes it clear they do.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### Just plain old Punisher

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##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2007, 04:39:49 pm »
Quote
Bootable CD/USB Drive versions for example.

I can boot XP from a CD or a USB drive in windows.

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#### Nemesis

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##### Re: Things I can do in Linux that I can't do on Windows.
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2007, 06:32:06 pm »
Quote
Bootable CD/USB Drive versions for example.

I can boot XP from a CD or a USB drive in windows.

Are you talking a fully installed and setup with your applications which can be moved from system to system version of XP or something else?  Any links to where there are instructions on how to setup such a thing?  I know some people who would find it useful.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."