Topic: Linux for Dummies?  (Read 9131 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Linux for Dummies?
« on: September 22, 2007, 08:11:24 pm »
Hey all

So might be having to get a new hard drive (very very low speeds on mine atm)
Unfortunately looks like my XP cd's were in one of the missing boxes when I moved (figures)

Anyway, not really looking to spend big $$$$ on buying anotehr copy of XP, and I've heard that vista won't let me watch a bunch of the movies/TV I've downloaded
so I was thinking of trying Linux.

Only questions are
1)- Does Linux work for people who have no idea about computers, or is it more of a OS for people who know their stuff

2) Can I play Op with Linux?

3) How hard is it to install as the OS?
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline Lepton

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1620
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2007, 09:53:43 pm »
Hey all

So might be having to get a new hard drive (very very low speeds on mine atm)
Unfortunately looks like my XP cd's were in one of the missing boxes when I moved (figures)

Anyway, not really looking to spend big $$$$ on buying anotehr copy of XP, and I've heard that vista won't let me watch a bunch of the movies/TV I've downloaded
so I was thinking of trying Linux.

Only questions are
1)- Does Linux work for people who have no idea about computers, or is it more of a OS for people who know their stuff

2) Can I play Op with Linux?

3) How hard is it to install as the OS?

1.  It certainly can be good for average folks if you go with a no-brainer distribution, like Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Linspire, etc.  I'd stay away from anything like Slackware or Debian.  The problem is if you really would like to do something extraordinary on Linux you're going to have to do a lot of things manually, but web browsing, music, word processing, etc is all pretty straight forward.

2.  Not that I know of.  You'd have to try to play it using WINE (free software) or Cedega (pay software).  Firesoul seemed to have got it working once but whenever I have attempted to, it's a no-go.

3.  Pretty easy.  Something like Ubuntu will guide you through the install, partition your hard drive for you and shrink your other partitions if you want to have both Windows and Linux on the same computer, etc, etc.  I installed Ubuntu on my laptop about a month ago and it was all smooth sailing.  It shrunk my Windows install down, installed Ubuntu, and I have encountered little to no problems with either the Windows or Linux side of things.

I'm sure others will pop their heads in here and give you recommendations, but if you are looking to play OP, and your XP disks are nowhere to be found, I think you are screwed.


System Specs:

Dell Dimension E521
AMD64x2 5000+
2G DDR2 RAM
ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB GDDR3
250GB SATA HD

Offline Nemesis

  • Captain Kayn
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 12504
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2007, 06:27:20 pm »
1)- Does Linux work for people who have no idea about computers, or is it more of a OS for people who know their stuff

There are versions for the "expert" and for novices.  I suggest LinuxMint.

2) Can I play Op with Linux?

It is theoretically possible but I wouldn't count on it. 

3) How hard is it to install as the OS?

LinuxMint installed with minimum skill required for me.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2007, 09:35:28 am »
HOLY CRAP! I did it! (well really the guys at Kubuntu and Wine...)

I got OP running on Linux!  :o  :D  :multi: :woot: :ufo: :rockinband: :tonybanks:

I only got two screenshots so far, setup and the CD Key prompt. Not surprisingly the same kind of tricks to setting up OP under Wine on Linux are similar to the usual issues on windows.

Long story short - Kubuntu 7.04 (I like KDE better + K3b, Amorak... etc), I used the built in Adept package manager to install firefox and wine (0.9.45 I think it was) Make adjustments to wine in kubuntu's system setting applet if needed, though the default should be fine to start. First I tried Deus Ex, it ran pretty much out of the box, I was amazed. On to OP... install from CD no problem. Installed the patch,,. no problem, installed OP+4 with models, no problem... Many crashes and lockups later I find the shortcuts need to be edited with the working directory much as in windows, Tried hardware 3D with no luck, I installed DirectX 8.1NT in my Wine install (I know...), still no hardware, but ran the OP Setup utility (which needed the shortcut fix) to set it to software rendering at 800x600 and wow, it ran! I gleefully I entered my CD key and watched in awe as a D7 killed my CA in a quick skirmish.  :o

(Oh yeah, i had to set my desktop to 16 bit color my manually editing /etc/X11/xorg.conf and restarting, as some of the wine debug output indicated an inability to change it through its directx interfaces.)

It was a litte choppy, but by computer is a little old... this would probably work better on a newer machine. I'll post the screenshots I have and try to get it running windowed for better demo screenshots.

I'll post more detailed and organised instructions later, I'd like to see this duplicated.

More soon... would be nice to see hardware 3D... I have an old card, might make a difference.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 09:49:05 am by Bonk »

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2007, 10:10:52 am »
Some snapshots of the game running in windowed mode, though as with windows its finicky about that (mouse focus issues), especially while taking screenshots...  I think what's lagging it for me is the sound, I'll fiddle with Wine's sound settings to see if that helps (using OSS currently), and back to full screen..


Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2007, 10:54:53 am »
OK, sound is definitely a problem (at least on my system) its too laggy and slow, I wonder if a faster computer would have the same issue? I'll try disabling it altogether.

Some links that helped me get this far:
http://frankscorner.org/index.php
http://www.winehq.org/

I also installed EzINI and it seems to work fine with wine, it even created a desktop shortcut! (Deus Ex and OP shortcuts came up in the lost and found - I just made some folders and desktop shortcuts for them)

Now the big question: networking?
EDIT: Doesn't look good for networking right now...  :'( poop... perhaps a little research will help.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 11:09:39 am by Bonk »

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2007, 11:16:31 am »
Cool... Thanks Bonk!

<ponders if Bonk noticed the "for dummies" >
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2007, 11:54:34 am »
Cool... Thanks Bonk!

<ponders if Bonk noticed the "for dummies" >


Lol, I knew you'd start with that. I did mean to note that this first attempt is not for the novice. However I might be able to make up a set of pretty clear and reliable instructions eventually.

I just got a serverlist by following the instructions here:
http://wiki.winehq.org/DirectPlayGames
and additional details in the comments here:
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=7029&iTestingId=10927

Now, I just need to solve the sound issue and test a multiplayer game!

Offline Dash Jones

  • Sub-Commander of the Dark Side
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6477
  • Gender: Male
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2007, 04:24:13 pm »
It would be great if you would write up an article of how to do that step by step for us simpletons and post it on a site somewhere semi-permanent to permanent!
"All hominins are hominids, but not all hominids are hominins."


"Is this a Christian perspective?

Now where in the Bible does it say if someone does something stupid you should shoot them in the face?"

-------

We have whale farms in Jersey.   They're called McDonald's.

There is no "I" in team. There are two "I"s in Vin Diesel. screw you, team.

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2007, 11:03:23 pm »
Indeed, that was my intention. I'll keep trying to get the sound lag sorted (though that may just take a faster computer), and run a  few more tests, then write an initial guide in one of the "How To" forums.

Offline Commander Maxillius

  • You did NOT just shoot that green sh-t at me?!?
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2299
  • Gender: Female
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2007, 11:16:19 pm »
I'm running Mint (ubuntu clone) and got OP to load in Wine, but missions wouldn't run.  I you could post the specs of your machine and (when you get the instructions hammered out) how-tos up, I'd be glad to run it up the pole.

my specs:
Athlon 2400+ (2.0 GHz)
512MB RAM (64MB taken for video)
I was never here, you were never here, this conversation never took place, and you most certainly did not see me.

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2007, 12:41:01 am »
Cool, I'd like to see this duplicated.

When you say missions wouldn't run do you mean even skirmish missions? Or just single player campaign missions? Or just D2 missions? Or just any missons?

I'll try a single player campaign mission and see if it will launch, though I wanted to get the missions for The Forge and test a D2 login as well. So far I have only tested single player skirmish.


Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2007, 12:58:35 am »
* Bonk ...wonders if the serverkit will run under wine?...

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2007, 11:27:54 am »
I minimized the sound lag by selecting the ALSA driveer under wine and setting the hardware to emulation at 22kHz,8bit, though it is still a problem, it might just be that my old PC does not quite have the guts to do this.

I played some singleplayer campaign missions no problems and logged in to the D2 and multiplayer worked surprisingly well, I crashed out of one mission taking desktop screenshots (old hardware again) and managed to finish a second mission but lost connection at the end of the mission... very close. I'll have to test this some more, but I suppose a newer and faster computer on high speed may not see these issues.


Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2007, 11:32:26 am »
Sweet! Grats Bonk.

<still has no idea what Bonk's talking about but assumes it's important  :P  >
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline FCM_SFHQ_XC

  • There is life outside of Windows..
  • Administrator
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2267
  • Gender: Male
  • Starbase Atlantis [X-refit]
    • 9th Fleet
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2007, 11:42:04 am »
<still has no idea what Bonk's talking about but assumes it's important :P >
Oh this is important and great news alright :D
I look forward to hearing more about this as time goes on... encourging news indeed!
Starfleet Headquarters out.

Fleet Commodore, XenoCorp, ISC Fleet.

Offline animator

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2007, 04:26:03 pm »
OMG if this  work i can give up windows almost entirely ;D ;D :D :)

Offline Lepton

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1620
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2007, 05:27:45 pm »
I've gotten the single player to work as well.  Definitely need desktop color depth set at 16 bit.  Need to set display driver with  SFCSetupMFC to Software. I used ALSA and had it set to full hardware acceleration, which resulted in very crackley sound production and a delay in playing all sound effects which is not too horrible but is able to be tolerated.  This was done under Ubuntu 7.04, Wine 0.9.33.  These are much the same problems that I had when I tried to run OP on my old 500 Mhz PIII machine, except video was intermittent at best and sounds were very delayed.  This is now a AMD64 3000+, so things are certainly better, but not as good as I would like.  I am going to try it with esound instead of alsa and see if that makes any difference.  Thanks for looking into this again, Bonk.  I had pretty much given up on OP uinder linux but it is looking pretty good from here.


System Specs:

Dell Dimension E521
AMD64x2 5000+
2G DDR2 RAM
ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB GDDR3
250GB SATA HD

Offline Lepton

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1620
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2007, 05:33:03 pm »
This sound card's driver does not support direct access
The (slower) DirectSound HEL mode will be used instead.
This sound card's driver does not support direct access
The (slower) DirectSound HEL mode will be used instead.

This was the output I got when switching to esound.  Sound playback was entirely not functional.  At present stick with alsa.


System Specs:

Dell Dimension E521
AMD64x2 5000+
2G DDR2 RAM
ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB GDDR3
250GB SATA HD

Offline Lepton

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1620
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2007, 06:53:15 pm »
Online.  This is pretty cool.



System Specs:

Dell Dimension E521
AMD64x2 5000+
2G DDR2 RAM
ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB GDDR3
250GB SATA HD

Offline Lepton

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1620
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2007, 07:36:43 pm »
fixme:winsock:NtStatusToWSAError Status code c0000024 converted to DOS error code 6

I was getting this output in the terminal when connected to dynaverse and in mission.  I am assuming that this is happening every time the program checks in with the server.  Didn't seem to make any difference to the gameplay but it was there nonetheless.


System Specs:

Dell Dimension E521
AMD64x2 5000+
2G DDR2 RAM
ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB GDDR3
250GB SATA HD

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2007, 12:28:20 am »
Quote
Online.  This is pretty cool.


eexxxxcceeelleennnttt... a partner in crime. I am very happy that you duplicated a D2 login. I only managed to test one multiplayer mission with deadman and marstone and it ran fine till the end of the mission when it seems I lost connection.

I have also found the best results with the ALSA drivers. Though at one point I had a combination of OSS for KDE and ALSA for wine, both emulating hardware acceleration with the KDE sound buffer maxed out gave an almost perfect result, though I could not duplicate it. Otherwise I have found that using either OSS or ALSA for KDE and Wine with both at low bitrates I get a a pretty similar result though ALSA is a bit better.

I started experimenting with a shell script to launch OP under Wine in its own X session when I discovered that Wine is releasing pretty much biweekly!  :o    In the process of updating wine and installing the ubuntu restricted packages my dial up connection died mid update and borked my apt db, so finally after bringing it back to life manually I have started a fresh wine config with a clean install of 0.9.46 (additional directx fixes but nothing for our sound yet...).  I also intend to use the latest version of the Miles Sound System (mss32.dll) used in OP along with Pestalence's selected dlls in the "OP stability update" to see if that might help. I found using the stability update dlls did help, newer Miles might too...

So once I get my new Wine/OP install back to where I left off (but without the full Directx install this time, just the dplay overrides and my own 9.0c copies instead of the 98se ones in that link), I intend to start messing about with scripts to launch OP in an optimised (probably exclusive) environment.

yochenhsieh

  • Guest
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2007, 10:01:08 am »
I have no sound issues in my install, my spec:
Mandriva Linux 2007 Spring (2007.1)
wine 0.9.46
Running on my acer laptop with Realtek AC'97.
Prodedure:
1)Install wine.
2)Install SFCOP, just cd to your cdrom drive and run
wine Setup.exe
3)Install Patch. Note that the patch will not run. So you have to run it manually, cd to your SFCOP folder, and run
wine Patch.exe PATCHSFCOP-2500-2552.RTP
4)Run
wine SFCOPSetupMFC.exe
and choose software mode, 800x600. Directdraw HAL is SLOW, don't use it.
5)Done! Run
wine SFCOP.exe
and enjoy.:)

I don't use any dll override. Audio tab in winecfg is set to alsa, 44100 sampling rate, 16bit. I also have ARTS enabled in KDE control center.

Offline Nemesis

  • Captain Kayn
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 12504
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2007, 08:33:32 pm »
So far I haven't been able to emulate your successes but it is nice to know it is possible.  Thanks guys.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2007, 11:37:51 pm »
I have no sound issues in my install, my spec:
Mandriva Linux 2007 Spring (2007.1)
wine 0.9.46
Running on my acer laptop with Realtek AC'97.
Prodedure:
1)Install wine.
2)Install SFCOP, just cd to your cdrom drive and run
wine Setup.exe
3)Install Patch. Note that the patch will not run. So you have to run it manually, cd to your SFCOP folder, and run
wine Patch.exe PATCHSFCOP-2500-2552.RTP
4)Run
wine SFCOPSetupMFC.exe
and choose software mode, 800x600. Directdraw HAL is SLOW, don't use it.
5)Done! Run
wine SFCOP.exe
and enjoy.:)

I don't use any dll override. Audio tab in winecfg is set to alsa, 44100 sampling rate, 16bit. I also have ARTS enabled in KDE control center.

That's good to hear. :thumbsup: What is the processor in the laptop, and how much RAM?

yochenhsieh

  • Guest
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2007, 01:54:04 am »
That's good to hear. :thumbsup: What is the processor in the laptop, and how much RAM?
CPU: Intel Pentium-M "Dothan" 1.5Ghz
RAM: DDR333 512MB (256+256)
GPU: ATi Mobility Radeon 9700 64MB

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2008, 11:34:26 am »
Poop. That business of "Wine in its own X session" is messing me up now that I need OP on Linux. I can't remember what I did and didn't document it here! :smackhead:

This will take a little digging.

Oh wait, that's not it, It must be the new video card. I'll disable hardware for now till I can dig up some linux nvidia drivers.

Nope, that didn't do it...  well I have a newer Kubuntu and Wine version that drb brought to me on CD, I guess I'll try that.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2008, 12:00:07 pm by Bonk »

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2008, 05:53:35 am »
Double poop. I did a fresh Kubuntu/Wine/OP install and running OP now crashes X.

I guess it does not like the Nvidia card. I'm thinking I just might put my old Matrox back in. Matrox has been writing Linux video drivers for longer than Nvidia has been in existence.

I love my old 32MB Matrox Millenium G450 - best video card evar!

Anybody interested in a $40 256MB BFG GeForce FX 5500?

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2008, 03:34:38 pm »
Yay! I got OP going again by installing the proprietary nvidia drivers.

Looks like Wine's built in directx support is still not up to directplay yet, so I'll try throwing in those Win98 generation direcplay dlls, and see if I can get to where I left off.

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2008, 03:57:01 pm »
Yup, that did it, got to the serverlist. I still have stuttering sound issues though. I wonder if any directsound library overrides might help?  Cool, now I'm back to where I was on this before I changed the video card at least.

Offline Pestalence_XC

  • "The Terminator"
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2636
  • Gender: Male
  • "The Terminator" Pestalence_XC, Xenocorp
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2008, 04:48:50 pm »
Hey all

So might be having to get a new hard drive (very very low speeds on mine atm)
Unfortunately looks like my XP cd's were in one of the missing boxes when I moved (figures)

Anyway, not really looking to spend big $$$$ on buying anotehr copy of XP, and I've heard that vista won't let me watch a bunch of the movies/TV I've downloaded


Incorrect, just Download Vista Codec Package for your version of windows.. if 32 bit, you want the x86 package, if you have 64 bit, you want the x64 package..

After that Download and install XVid, and then finally download and install DivX.

that will give you 99% of the codecs you need to play any movie on the net...

I would also install Quicktime as well for *.mov files, but other than that, I have had no problems playing movies in AVI format...
"You still don't get it, do you?......That's what he does. That's all he does! You can't stop him! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

Member :
Xenocorp / Dynaverse.net Moderator & Beta Test Team
SFC 4 Project QA Coordinator
Taldren Beta Test Team
14 Degrees East Beta Test Team
Activision Visioneers SFC 3 Beta Test Team

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2008, 05:51:09 pm »
Or you can just install VLC;D

(P.S. I strongly advise against installing Quicktime on Windows, I've reinstalled XP only once, it was in the first year and because of Quicktime. Granted that was a long time ago, Apple may be less malicious to Microsoft by now.)

Offline Pestalence_XC

  • "The Terminator"
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2636
  • Gender: Male
  • "The Terminator" Pestalence_XC, Xenocorp
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2008, 09:03:08 pm »
I have never had an issue with Quicktime on Windows and I have been using Quicktime and Windows since Windows 3.1

It is possible that you got malicious content in a file you were playing in Quicktime.. Quicktime security didn't build up until v6.5

now they are on v7

Since apple is becoming more MS compliant because of I-Pods and I-Phones and so forth, they really have to conform to MS standards or lose out on their most lucrative market.

so security of Quicktime is much higher and integrates well into Windows now.. the only thing I would recommend is not to use a Google or Yahoo tool bar on your system (spyware).. Also, to keep Quicktime from starting with Windows is to go into the Quicktime folder and find QTTask.exe and rename it QTTask.old.. that way it doesn't pre-load at system start.

other than that.. it works great... I watch all the High Def trailers with it.

all my other movies and High def material, I just use Windows Media Player 11.. with the Vista Package and Div X, and Vista's native Codecs as well as the NVidia current drivers, if you vid card is High Def capable, the playback is High Def.

I have had this system running since I built it.. 0 issues except OP and the D2...

That is why I am opening a shop for streamlining XP and Vista as well as Optimazation and upgrades.. I'm also going to offer Custom Builds, however I am going to be very limited on that end..
"You still don't get it, do you?......That's what he does. That's all he does! You can't stop him! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

Member :
Xenocorp / Dynaverse.net Moderator & Beta Test Team
SFC 4 Project QA Coordinator
Taldren Beta Test Team
14 Degrees East Beta Test Team
Activision Visioneers SFC 3 Beta Test Team

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2008, 07:34:52 am »
Good stuff to know. I don't think I even got to the point of playing a file when I had it installed. I was so offended by the aggressive install, taking file associations and startup entries and tray applets... I tried to immediately uninstall it and was unable to. So I formatted the disk and reinstalled windows. (It was early on and I had not installed much else). Understandably, I have not touched it since, probably never will, despite your assurances, which I do have the considerable faith in.


Anyway, back to my OP on linux notes: I tried using a dsound library override using a directx9 dll, which not work at all - It did yield some rather psychedelic effects though! :)


Offline Nemesis

  • Captain Kayn
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 12504
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2008, 04:22:32 pm »
Well Bonk I copied my games directory from my Windows 2000 Pro machine to my LinuxMint 4.0 machine just to see how it works.  OP still doesn't work (its crashing X), Galactic Civiizations 2 Dark Avatar recognizes its on a different machine and doesn't go on (I'll have to try a fresh install after I dig out the disks sometime).  Never Winter Nights 1 works, I don't have speakers hooked up so I'm not sure if the sound is working or not.  Spaceward Ho! works. 

No real tweaking yet.   It is nice that some things are working though.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2008, 04:42:48 pm »
No, no... don't just copy directories over. Install the latest wine. Setup the fake windows drive. Mount the OP setup cd, run a "wine setup.exe" from the CD root and install to the fake windows drive program files directory. Then install the patch and OP+ similarly and run the OP setup util selecting hardware or software accel and resolution (EzINI installs and works under wine as well). Finally, add the wine directplay overrides linked above.

Note: the patch will throw you, it's output goes to the a console but will still launch a wine window to show the readme, which obscures the console window... I run the patch in the folder I've downloaded it to from the console with a "wine PatchBLAH.exe"

What video card do you have? Are there proprietary drivers for it? Have you tried them? If not have you tried running the op setup and using software emulation as Lepton did?

Also check the wine configurations for graphics and sound, set them appropriately to match what you have selected in the OP setup utility.


EDIT: PS you may need to edit the SFC.ini directly as it seems that the setup util will dump the changed lines into a new sfc.ini file in your home folder (you can use it's values to edit the actual one)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2008, 04:57:40 pm by Bonk »

Offline Nemesis

  • Captain Kayn
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 12504
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2008, 04:58:34 pm »
No, no... don't just copy directories over. Install the latest wine.

I have the latest Wine (0.9.58) installed and I already did a fresh OP install (neither of which did I remember to state).  Neither the fresh install nor the copied versions do more than crash X.  It does run the "intro movie" if I let it before it crashes (I've tried both start files just in case).  I probably need to do what you posted about doing earlier, change the colour depth to 16 bit.  I haven't gotten around to trying that yet.

I was quite surprised that it handled the Never Winter Nights 1 copy, that was unexpected.  I've previously had Total Annihilation work as well as the Spaceward Ho!.

I was playing around with the Spaceward Ho! and some headphones and it doesn't look like the sound is working.  I'll have to look at that.  I do want to be able to play movies on it once I hook up the speakers.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2008, 05:09:41 pm »
That is exactly the behaviour I saw here with my new nvidia card before I installed the restricted drivers. (Was not an issue with my old Matrox card as they're OS Linux driver veterans, most dist's bundled drivers make full use of the card - not so for ATI or NVIDIA - I love matrox, I wish I could afford a new one... and they're based in hip Montreal!)

Offline Nemesis

  • Captain Kayn
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 12504
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2008, 05:16:13 pm »
Envy doesn't find restricted drivers for either of the Linux desktops (ATi Radeon 9000 in one and an Asus card based on the nVidia EN7100GS chipset) unfortunately.  Hopefully that will change sometime soon.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2008, 08:11:47 am »
Support for the ATI fragment shader has been added in wine 0.9.59 but I exepect that wont help you without the proper drivers. Does ATI distribute a shell installer for their drivers like nvidia does? Always dicey working with somehtiung like that outside a package manager though...

Check out this post:
http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163374290.msg1122872277.html#msg1122872277
(just want to link that post of mine here... some interesting developments...)

Offline Nemesis

  • Captain Kayn
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 12504
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2008, 08:36:47 pm »
Fortunately ATI along with Intel and VIA are opening up their documentation so open source drivers are getting better.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2008, 07:25:05 pm »
You could also look into any available bios updates for your video card... (always a dicey proposition, but I've never had one fail).

I found this interesting note today:
http://www.winehq.org/?issue=333#TransGaming%20giving%20back%20to%20WINE

I don't see dpnet in the wine releases yet. I wonder just how functional that code is and if it has a chance of making into a release soon? (would be better than using dll overrides with old MS dplay dlls as I have been doing).

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2008, 12:38:24 pm »
I have very strong motivation to get OP working on the Dynaverse under wine now. I cannot connect to the Dynaverse at all from windows anymore, even did a completely fresh OP install (first time in 7 years). I removed numerous applications, all I am left with is the latest directx update or the nvidia drivers I'm using (I know there have been issues with nvidia windows drivers interfering with dynaverse login in the past).

Anyway, so I think I will get down to it with wine now, I'll dig into the code and rebuild it from source if it comes to it.

I can connect to the Dynaverse from OP under wine, run a mission, but missions do not end properly and I still have the stuttering sound issue. So it's not that far off, I can do this.

Offline Pestalence_XC

  • "The Terminator"
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2636
  • Gender: Male
  • "The Terminator" Pestalence_XC, Xenocorp
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2008, 12:51:02 pm »
Bonk.. which version of windows are you running and which video card?

If XP and NVidia, then

Turn off Anti-Virus

Install OP

Patch to v2552 then use the OP Server Directory fix (or just get the OP Enhancement Package v5.1)

if using the OP Enhancement Package v5.1 Check the WonServerSetup.gf file and put the " " marks around the Directory servers, remove the Stasis entry (invalid while Firesoul's server is offline), this was a temporary fix for XP and D2 due to the Taldren Firewall Detection (removal of the " off the server entries) this issue you fixed for XP and Vista..

Open OP directory and find StarfleetOP.exe, right click, copy, paste shortcut on to desktop.

right click shortcut and select properties

Click on compatibility tab

put checkmark into Disable Desktop Composition

Click OK.

Make sure you have latest edition of Diret X

I also recommend using NVidia's Beta Drivers located at :

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_174.74.html   (Windows XP, XP Pro, XP Media Center Edition [x86 or 32 bit])

Disable firewalls and keep Anti-Virus disabled ..

try to connect.

Launch first time.. wait for firewall message, then ALT-F4 out of game.. immediately re-launch OP and try to connect to Dynaverse..

You should be able to log in now.

Repeat steps for launching after you turn your AV back on.. see if it will allow you to connect.. if not, your AV is blocking you.

If you can connect, then re-enable your Firewall, if unable to connect, then firewall not configured correctly or port forwarding is incorrect and may need to be re-installed/refreshed

This usually works for 99% of XP players to get 100% functionality on D2
"You still don't get it, do you?......That's what he does. That's all he does! You can't stop him! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

Member :
Xenocorp / Dynaverse.net Moderator & Beta Test Team
SFC 4 Project QA Coordinator
Taldren Beta Test Team
14 Degrees East Beta Test Team
Activision Visioneers SFC 3 Beta Test Team

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2008, 01:23:39 pm »
WinXP Pro / Nvidia GeForce FX 5500 256MB.

Thanks for the reminders Pestalence, I know the drill and have been through all of that (except different nvidia drivers). Oh wait... have not tried "disable desktop composition" on the shortcut yet though. That's a new one for me, let me give that a try.


Re: wine trials - Setting application specific settings for OP in wine using win95 compatibility and emulation for sound and video accel seemed to help somewhat, still getting stuttering shound though, it seems to be the main issue.

I'll give that desktop composition thing a try on WinXP, if no luck I'll start digging into the directsound code in wine to see if I can find what the quikcksilver sound code is doing that wine does not grok.


EDIT: oh, the Desktop Composition thing would be new to me because it is not present on the WinXP shortcut compatibility tab, must be a vista thing. I do have desktop shortcuts display disabled... I wonder if that could affect OP somehow? I'll give that a try.

EDIT2: I tried a number of combinations of compatibility settings in XP (disable visual themes, turn off advanced test sevices.. win95 compatibilty... all with no software firewall or AV.) So that just leaves Directx (which I have updated, rolled back and updated again) or the Nvidia drivers. So it has to be the nvidia drivers. They take quite some time to download, so I'm going to work on resolving sound issues with OP under wine instead.



« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 01:53:58 pm by Bonk »

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2008, 02:24:49 pm »
Aha! found my problem in windows, previously just turning off the windows firewall/ICS (I use the ICS functionality) at the control panel applet used to work, not anymore. If I go to the services console and stop the firewall/ICS service and UPnP service, bingo! I can login!

And boy is that serverlist fast now...  :o  first time I've seen it (from windows) since modifying it serverside... wow, should have done that ages ago.

So something must have changed with the firewall/ICS/UPnP services in recent updates... it looks like the firewall/ICS service is now dependent on UPnP, I don't think that used to be the case. So I jsut need to remember to stop the firewall/ICS and UPnP services at the services mmc instead of using the control panel applet. (AVG and windows defender still enabled)

Shweet! (But too bad I wiped a 7 year old OP install to figure it out... :()

Now I can go back to troubleshooting OP's sound in wine just for the sake of it. I think I'll try some of the more recent miles sound system dlls. http://www.radgametools.com/mssdown.htm  (mss32.dll from the tools package)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 03:03:47 pm by Bonk »

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #46 on: April 14, 2008, 05:23:51 pm »
Well OP would not start under wine using the mss32.dll from 2006 or from 2008, just the original from 2001 seems to work. (was worth a try)

I begin to suspect that the stuttering sound issue is simply a limitation of my processor, as it's maxed out totally while running OP under wine.

Let me go back and check You-Cheng's config and see if the processor was much faster, as he did not get stuttering sound...

You-Cheng's specs:
CPU: Intel Pentium-M "Dothan" 1.5Ghz
RAM: DDR333 512MB (256+256)
GPU: ATi Mobility Radeon 9700 64MB

Mine:
CPU: Intel Pentium III "Coppermine" 1GHz
RAM: PC133 640MB (256+256+128)
GPU: Nvidia GeForce FX 5500 256MB

I wonder if that extra 500MHz processor speed would make the difference? Just might... combined with the bus speed...
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 05:35:04 pm by Bonk »

Offline Nemesis

  • Captain Kayn
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 12504
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2008, 06:48:55 pm »
Note to Pestalence_XC:

Pest there is a very good reason no one made suggestions to Bonk on things that he might try to get his Windows SFC2 linked to the Dynaverse, namely that we were harnessing his drive to run it on Wine to solve those issues for us.  Now you've gone and messed it up.

BAD PEST! BAD!




 ;)
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Pestalence_XC

  • "The Terminator"
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2636
  • Gender: Male
  • "The Terminator" Pestalence_XC, Xenocorp
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2008, 11:42:00 pm »
lol.. Bonk won't quit.. he is like me.. sink your teeth in and wont let go.. you will get Wine running OP soon enough with hardly any issues.
"You still don't get it, do you?......That's what he does. That's all he does! You can't stop him! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

Member :
Xenocorp / Dynaverse.net Moderator & Beta Test Team
SFC 4 Project QA Coordinator
Taldren Beta Test Team
14 Degrees East Beta Test Team
Activision Visioneers SFC 3 Beta Test Team

Offline KBF-Kurok

  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 829
  • Gender: Male
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2008, 10:39:51 am »
any update on how this is going. Im totaly lost on how to get this to work. Configure my x to 16 bit? any documantation that anyone has written would be apreciated.

Kurok

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2008, 07:32:58 am »
El bumpola - for reference to save searching for this thread, as I am giving this another go on my laptop running Kubuntu 8.10 and Wine 1.1.9. (considering my miserable failure at getting OP Dynaverse to run on Vista)

Note, I have installed Kubuntu 8.10 amd64 using Wubi, as my laptop has some kind of queer new pseudo-BIOS that prevents normal multiple partition boot setups.

Now I just need to remember how I did this last time, good thing I made notes! Though they are somewhat incomplete. I think I had to call wine at a sudo console to run setup.exe from the OP CD.

edit: Kurok, this time I will try to write a nice clear set of step-by-step instructions.

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2008, 09:13:50 am »
Having less luck than last time, video much more choppy, sound still stuttering, and no serverlist.  :( Looks like I'll have to run OP and Artifex in a VM on my Vista install.

Offline Commander Maxillius

  • You did NOT just shoot that green sh-t at me?!?
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2299
  • Gender: Female
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2008, 08:58:30 am »
Well, I completely forgot I read this a year ago!  I also completely forgot that I got it to work (somewhat) then too.

I just tried it again under Linux Mint and it works better!  I've currently got a game on pause, so it runs, but I've got a really bad audio artifact over top of the Federation starship background noise, and the rest of the audio is choppy.  The framerate isn't terrible, about like Windows-native 450-500 MHz, but considering I'm using an AMD Athlon 2400+, it could be better.

Couple issues though.  No models.  The game is running great, I can see the UI, targeting reticle, turn indicator, even damage textures, but alas, no models.

I also just dicovered the screensaver will kick on with inactivity while the game is running (like it is when paused) with no ill effects!

Perhaps restarting the machine will help since I didn't after installing DX8.


EDIT:  It crashed to desktop upon completion.  Rebooted and... crap.  Still no models, and sound artifact still there.

complete system stats: 
CPU: AMD Athlon XP 2400+
GPU: nVidia GeForce4 integrated
RAM: 768MB - 64MB dedicated video
OS: Linux Mint Elyssa (Ubuntu 8.04)
Xserver: 1280x1024 24-bit
WINE: v. 1.0, mimic Win98, DirectX mouse capture, ALSA sound (going to try OSS)
« Last Edit: December 19, 2008, 09:27:59 am by Commander Maxillius »
I was never here, you were never here, this conversation never took place, and you most certainly did not see me.

Offline Commander Maxillius

  • You did NOT just shoot that green sh-t at me?!?
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2299
  • Gender: Female
Re: Linux for Dummies?
« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2008, 08:14:18 pm »
ok, installed Enhancement pack 5.0 and changed the sound to OSS.  The sound artifact is gone, but it runs the game like windows native 133mhz.  A.K.A. crap.  Also, the Klingon model appeared, but the Federation one still didn't, even though the glows did.  No weapons fire showed up either.  The ships are apparently still there since I can maneuver and still get hit, but nothing appears.

found the issue:  the shiplist directs the game to folders that don't exist.  Example:  the Federation Police ship (F-POL) is directed to the non-existant OPPLUS/MODELS/fepol/fepol/.mod

Is there a way to fix this without going line by line?
I was never here, you were never here, this conversation never took place, and you most certainly did not see me.