Topic: Very interesting talk:  (Read 2286 times)

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Offline Bonk

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Very interesting talk:
« on: November 03, 2009, 05:41:37 pm »
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z685OF-PS8[/youtube]

http://www.ccnx.org/


Offline Bonk

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Re: Very interesting talk:
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2009, 04:32:31 pm »
Did anybody else have the patience to sit through this?

It got me thinking. At first I thought this will finally put to rest "The medium is the message", but on further reflection one could argue that this development only strengthens Marshall McLuhan's expression, or even completely validates it.

I found the history portion of the talk quite good. It ties the evolution of networking together.

Offline marstone

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Re: Very interesting talk:
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2009, 04:37:23 pm »
Haven't got to listen to it yet, was planning on it tomorrow.
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Offline Lepton

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Re: Very interesting talk:
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2009, 07:23:19 pm »
Err, I actually fell asleep while watching it just as he got the good part.  It sounded to me as if some of what he was addressing is part of P2P networks.  He spoke of separating the verification of the quality and accuracy of data from the origin of the data.  Isn't this what happens in P2P networks?  Distributed copies of the same data verified and tagged by distributed hash tables and such.

Just seems like the next iteration of the cloud except the cloud is everywhere, so to speak.


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Offline Bonk

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Re: Very interesting talk:
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2009, 08:13:28 pm »
Err, I actually fell asleep while watching it just as he got the good part.

 :rofl: Just like a real lecture!

Isn't this what happens in P2P networks?  Distributed copies of the same data verified and tagged by distributed hash tables and such.

Just seems like the next iteration of the cloud except the cloud is everywhere, so to speak.

He mentioned that in the video and others raise the question. He differentiates this rather unclearly in the talk actually, but i think the website describes the essential difference here:

Quote
Since this new approach to networking can be deployed through middleware software communicating in an overlay on existing networks, it is possible to start applying it now to solve communication problems in new ways.

Which describes CCNx as an experiment in the concepts, with much greater aspirations than P2P software. The implication is a new network infrastructure... and if I get the idea, one that is IP address (4 or 6) free, DNS free and delivery agnostic. As mentioned it is pretty much just a concept at this point, but I think he is right. Something feels right about this approach. Certainly  though P2P, VOIP and multicast technologies are part of the picture and inspiration for CCN. But what I like about the way he talks is like information needs to be free. This architecture does not lend itself to billing (tones of P2P). He also describes required version control... it addresses many issues.

Offline marstone

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Re: Very interesting talk:
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2009, 10:09:19 pm »
If he was discussing expanding the network handleres to take care of CCN (carbon copy network).  That would really help.  Being able to broadcast to a group is much more effiecient on bandwidth then sending seperate packets to each peer/subscriber.  I will have to watch this tomorrow morning.
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Offline Lepton

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Re: Very interesting talk:
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2009, 11:17:30 pm »
Do these concepts have any connection to the idea of the Semantic Web?  It seems like with the sheer volume of information out there on the web what is needed is proper metadata about all that data so we can know what that data is not merely that it can come up in a Google search by keywords.


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Offline Lepton

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Re: Very interesting talk:
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2009, 11:19:49 pm »
Same dude, slightly different talk:

http://www.parc.com/work/focus-area/networking/


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Offline Bonk

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Re: Very interesting talk:
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2009, 03:15:19 pm »
I think the semantic web is one of the sorts of technologies/solutions that will be required at the application layer for effective implementation of content centric networking. Too XMLy for me though. I'd like to see the same standards defined in a tighter format (binary). But I suspect I confuse CCN packet design with i/o standards for applications that will use it.

Checking out that other talk now.

Good clear quote from that page:
Quote
Content-centric networking is PARC's vision for taking the next step in data communication — a change in network architecture to make content retrieval by name, not location, the fundamental operation of the network. Our approach is to reuse and build upon successful features of TCP/IP, with the key change of replacing the machine-oriented IP model with a named content model as the basis for the central protocol that connects networks.

Offline Bonk

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Re: Very interesting talk:
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2009, 03:54:54 pm »
Bing! Light goes on. A quote from the high-level talk that describes a key concept well:
Quote
The way that you communicate is via anything that moves bits in either time or space, and that can be a memory as well as a wire.

Offline Lepton

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Re: Very interesting talk:
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2009, 07:52:22 pm »
I have to say that I was not terribly impressed with his examples of real world implementations of this standard as it applied to devices and networks.  Automatic calender sync on smart phones?  Don't all smart phones do that kind of thing already?  Transferring photos automatically from the camera to a networked computer or device?  That can be done now with cameras that incorporate bluetooth or that use something like Eye-Fi.

I also don't like the supposed symmetry or maybe it's just the terms he uses to describe this stuff.  Name to content, content to name. That's a bit too facile and I think it misses the point entirely.  We don't want to know what the name (translate as location, i.e. URL, I think) of the item we are seeking is.  We want to know what that content is.  That's more than a name however you want to describe a name in this scheme. It's really identity.

For instance, in describing Google's search engine, he says that Google basically creates an index of web pages based on keywords on those pages.  However, whatever Google uses to model the relevance of hits or our own minds are left to parse if these results are what we are looking for because the actual content on the web does not represent itself to us.  It does not describe itself to us.  We have to infer a description from a constellation of keywords or by inspecting it directly.

But what if every webpage out there described itself and its content with sufficient metadata, then we need not infer anything but we have those descriptions as directly searchable.  Would you even need a service like Google then to crawl over the web and describing everything it it's already cataloged?


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Offline marstone

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Re: Very interesting talk:
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2009, 09:32:50 pm »
yes a smart phone does do alot of it now, but it isn't really good at it.  (packet based connections on a broadcast connection.  It is as he was talking about, the format being adapted to the current connections but not done really well.  The problem as I see it is that the new format he is proposing opens up new possibilities that you can't really think of right now, and makes how it is being used multiple times more effecient.

Sort of like talking about airtravel  back at the turn of the century (the 20th not the 21st)  You will tell people about how they can go from here to somewhere else, and they will say, I already can do that.  But the speed is the difference.
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