Topic: =/\= hints at higgs closer and closer!  (Read 1806 times)

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Offline stoneyface

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=/\= hints at higgs closer and closer!
« on: July 25, 2011, 04:51:40 pm »
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/breakthrough-hailed-in-quest-for-god-particle-2319902.html

it is getting so close! i will not claim victory until proof! but this is very exciting news!
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Offline Bonk

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Re: =/\= hints at higgs closer and closer!
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2011, 06:03:28 pm »
There are so many assumptions that any questions or results are effectively meaningless.

If the weak nuclear force is carried by W and Z bosons and their mass is 100 times that of the proton, why then does a helium nucleus mass only 4 times a proton? The Higgs field/boson is proposed to explain this mass that nobody seems to have questioned the validity of.

Show me a helium nucleus with an atomic mass of 604 and then I will accept that the search for this mythical particle is valid. I know this will never happen because helium does not have a mass of 604. It has a mass of 4.

The assumptions are invalid and are not consistent with empirical observation.

A particle either has mass or it does not. Nor can a particle create another particle that has a higher mass than itself. I can say this with immense intuitive confidence but no direct evidence. Whatever equipment or observations that are telling them that mass appears from nowhere are flawed. I know the world of science well enough to see how such silliness can come about.

They need to re-examine their observations of W and Z bosons and adjust the subsequent conclusions and questions accordingly.

Also, particle masses are constant. The mass of an electron is the mass of an electron. It does not change under any conditions. If it appears to, then that is the result of semantics, not physics.

While I'm at it: dark matter/energy does not exist. I can say so with 100% confidence. There are only phenomena/intelligences that we do not yet comprehend.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 06:40:04 pm by Bonk XC »

Offline stoneyface

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Re: =/\= hints at higgs closer and closer!
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2011, 04:57:38 pm »
bonk i understand your argument and appreciate your gut instinct. but, i would add that i disagree and not for a reason you might think.
a development that you may have missed in particle physics. mass is NOT stable! there are fluctuations that are being measured across the board. the higgs is the particle thought to give mass (also i would point out that mass and energy are interchangeable in particle physics). until we find a higgs boson we will never know for sure that it is the particle that gives mass. that is why we have to find it.

also bonk so you don't feel so singled out. my gut instinct in regards to higgs is this. i believe that there are two factors in play that give mass to particles. only 1 of which is the presence of the higgs boson. i am a follower of 11 dimensionality and i believe that the second factor to finding the reason for mass is this. i think they have to have the higgs boson as well as be touching the mass causing M-brane. a few of the dimensions are refered too as "branes" for M-branes. dimensions that resemble huge flat planes of high energy. i believe that if a particle is touching this mass causing brane, there is an energy transferal that converts to mass! brilliant eh?
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Offline Bonk

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Re: =/\= hints at higgs closer and closer!
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2011, 06:49:45 pm »
Right, I was forgetting special relativity. Mass is not constant. It approaches infinity as the object approaches the speed of light. I suspect the majority of these bizarre "mass from nothing" observations are simply artifacts of special relativistic effects. This drops out of the equivalence of mass and energy. However, the mass of an electron is still the mass of an electron. If it is travelling at the speed of light then its mass is infinite. (thus photons cannot have mass, or they could not travel at the speed of light). A particle's mass is determined by its velocity, but within these constraints the mass of that particle is still "constant" and predictable. There are no magic mass imbuing fields or particles.

I just can't buy into mass from nothing. Might as well say it is the hand of God.

Offline FRA.E.Kehakoul_XC

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Re: =/\= hints at higgs closer and closer!
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2011, 11:46:17 am »
We should be cautious to say this is so and so,..in the end  its all work in progress.

In fact we know nothing as long as we judge the tree by its visible parts.

And with visible in this context i mean  what we can grasp with our current set of detecting options,and the bad habit of established science circles to ignore anomalous phenomena.
In that regard  Dark energy and dark matter are just bad choosen  descriptions for the terminus "ignorance".

And then constructing theories which carefully avoid those blank knowledge spots just to have something that works.

If you got a system with  certain elements in it ,you surely can construct theories about the nature of the relations between these elements, have  "working" theories to some extend and yet  believing ultimately in a fundamentally wrong approach which becomes visible in the aforementioned anomalies.

One example for this would be  the Planetary Position effect on short wave signal quality,which is one  tip of the iceberg in regard to this topic imho.

And consequently all implications get carefully ignored.

If its wished i  will elaborate on this further in depth,atm however it would burst the frame of this post. :)

« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 12:15:51 pm by FRA.E.Kehakoul_XC »
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Offline Bonk

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Re: =/\= hints at higgs closer and closer!
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2011, 11:48:11 am »
Well said sir, even if restrained to the limits of a forum post.  :goodpost: