Topic: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss  (Read 31711 times)

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Offline TAnimaL

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Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« on: May 05, 2013, 07:46:26 am »
After being called out for thread-hijacking and inserting an overall critique of Into Darkness in a "tech" thread, I thought it might be a good idea to have a thread specifically for discussion of the movie, now that it's going into release. Last time, in '09, there was a separate thread just for bashing ST XI, but I thought it would be... interesting to see a wider-themed discussion. For the record, I hated ST '09 at first, and everytime I've seen it since, and have low expectations for Into Darkness, but I'm planning on seeing it and judging it on it's own merits, and interested in what others here have to say about it.

Offline Sirgod

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2013, 06:43:33 pm »
I'm looking forward to it, even given all the problems with the last film. I just hope we see more capital ship battle footage than we have in previous films.

Stephen
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2013, 04:26:44 pm »
There is a lot of truth to that Adam. The other thing I didn't like, was it seemed like Kirk just hung around all the time. After crashing the car, he hung around, On the mine ship he hung around, on the drill he hung around.

Plus he didn't seem like the Kirk we love who could take down an army with a well placed Kirk chop.

Stephen
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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2013, 08:30:25 am »
"Schadenfreude: enjoyment obtained from the troubles of others"
Sorry to hear your experience Captain Adam but not terribly surprised. Don't worry about spoilers here though, that's sorta why I wanted to see a thread devoted to this movie, to corral the discussion so we don't see spoilers elsewhere. So go ahead and vent.

I had planned to go over the weekend but my comrade-in-Trek was unavailable and had too much else going on, and will probably get to it this week.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2013, 10:18:16 am »
Sounds like the worst fanfic ever, yet Entertainment Weekly gave it an A score and they usually hate everything that isn't an arthouse flick. As far as the incontinuities in plot and character behavior go - just remember their target audience and you will see why it is that way. They are obviously afraid to lay down anything too heavily highbrow or philisophical or even intelligent for fear of boring people. Just one more step away from the things that made ST stand out in the first place and gave it the legs to last this long.

Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2013, 11:25:03 am »
Well in comparison to other recent action movies it is alot alike. If you nothing about trek other then a few words you will probably love the film.

My biggest problem is that JJ actually didn't need Kahn. He had a reasonable serviceable bad guy in Admiral Marcus and a storyline that did not require this assed up retailing of TWOK. Instead this could have been about a young unproven Captain with problems following the rule discovering his boss is tiring to start a war with the Klingons. It would have been a chance to build up Kirks reputation with the Klingons as he gets them to side with him in stopping the bad guy. Better story, more original, in keeping with the character's historical choices, and you don't endup looking like an ego maniac remaking the most popular trek film of all time.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2013, 03:05:53 pm »
Sounds like the worst fanfic ever, yet Entertainment Weekly gave it an A score and they usually hate everything that isn't an arthouse flick. As far as the incontinuities in plot and character behavior go - just remember their target audience and you will see why it is that way. They are obviously afraid to lay down anything too heavily highbrow or philisophical or even intelligent for fear of boring people. Just one more step away from the things that made ST stand out in the first place and gave it the legs to last this long.

I loved the 2009 film, this one was disappointing.  it wasn't as terrible as Iron Man 3 though.

Forget the ridiculous breaches "cannon" as I can accept that, there was just so much dumb sh*t in this movie that didn't make sense.

1.5 out of 4 stars.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2013, 07:47:00 pm »
I loved the 2009 film...


I don't know how you can say that with a straight face.

Offline Martothir

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2013, 06:08:45 pm »
I actually sorta liked this one. Especially compared to the 2009 film which I still can't watch. Perhaps because I went in with low expectations? But I thought this one was truer to Trek in regards to themes like loyalty, friendship, and sacrifice. Don't get me wrong, it had problems.

[SPOILERS]

For example, a few huge plot holes:

*Towards the beginning of the movie one of the 'brass' at Starfleet Command has a bunch of model ships on his desk. It's mostly old Enterprise ships in sequence, with the Phoenix thrown in for good measure. At the end of the sequence of ships, there is a model of the super secret dreadnaught Vengeance which is the villain ship in the movie. No one stops and says, "Whoa, what the hell is that ship class? I haven't seen it in the fleet before!" They just ignore it. Why Starfleet personnel would ignore an unknown ship class is beyond me.

*Towards the end of the movie, the Enterprise was falling to the Earth, dead in space. Not a single Starfleet ship is seen assisting it. Nevermind that there was just a terrorist attack on Earth. No one ship is to be found in orbit. It makes no sense.

*Why did they have to chase Khan for his regenerative blood? They had 72 other eugenics types in storage? Why not draw some of their blood? No need to chase Khan except dramatic effect.


But all those things said, I thought the film generally felt more Trekky than 2009's installment. There were some painfully bad moments; Spock's "Khan" yell was one. Anything saying by Bones was another.

I really felt they mishandled the death scene. Were they trying to recreate it or reimagine it? It felt like a bad in between. It was different enough from the original that it wasn't a recreation. But it didn't differ so much that it was really a reimagining. It was just a bad emulation at best. I felt liked they dropped the ball in this scene more than any other. I mean, for one its too early in the series to do it. We haven't been with these characters long enough for it to have emotional impact. Even if we had, don't make it a cheap knockoff anyway. Meh.

I walked away *not angry,* which is a big thing for me. I felt like it was a step in the right direction, towards a more story driven Trek, but still not the Trek I would like. The stupid flying through space for the blatant purpose of the 3D experience/video game tie in is a pure example of that.

Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2013, 08:46:29 pm »
Knowing JJ you are liable to get both in the next film ::)

Offline Czar Mohab

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2013, 12:42:55 am »
--WARNING CONTAINS SPOILERS--

What the crap was this...??????

2 minutes. GIANT PLOT HOLE in less than 2 minutes of movie. "Don't forget the Prime Directive while you're down there," says Spock as he's about to be lowered into a volcano to stop it from wiping out an indigenous people. "We wouldn't want to interfere with the natural development of the natives." The next 8 minutes only rip the hole WAY more open... Seriously? We can't violate the PD from orbit?  :hoppin:

Udar was a better Augment than JJ's Khan. And he only had super hearing. The security guard busting Scotty was of the appropriate shape for an augment.

OK - so what's with the Klingons? How did the altered timeline alter them?

If I'm on a ship in a more or less stable orbit around a planet and lose stabilizers guess what happens? I STAY IN BLOODY ORBIT! I'm not going any further on this ... scene.

Why is Admiral Akbar guarding the brig?

Why are there barcode scanner guns all over the ship (most notably the pair on the Helm, and 4 others on the bridge)? OK, I get we need to use today's things to show us the future, but couldn't we at least try to hide them better? Or give them a purpose? In Generations Picard's "son" is playing with a toy that I remember seeing commercials for (it was from the Aliens movie that came out just before) but at least it looked like it belonged... and had a purpose... These barcode scanners make me think the crew is going to be registering for a baby shower or wedding or something...

and

I'm just glad that I wasn't the only one to notice.

Don't get me started on the ship. Which one? Does it really matter? There's sooooooo much wrong with both of them... Tip of the iceburg

Bill Shatner and Leonard Nemoy did it first and did it best. The real Khan sold us "real Corinthian leather" in our cars. ... I can safely believe, after seeing this mess, that no matter what Lucas did to Star Wars (HAN SHOT FIRST DAMMIT!!!), JJ is going to desecrate that franchise...

I have to cut this rant short. Seriously I found one thing to like about the movie. Carol Marcus. Not saying she's hotter or better than the original. Just saying that she was the best part of the movie  :smitten: Everything else, even the Tribble (my cat can hoark up something better), was sub par for a Trek movie. The worst non-JJ Trek episode/movie is better than this one.

The Czar
P.S. Here is that toy I mentioned earlier. My appologies for not finding the clip from the movie...
Aliens Action Figures Toy Commercial from 1993


P.P.S. I do sincerely want to like the JJ Trek... It has potential... I just can't with '09 and ID...
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Offline TheStressPuppy

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2013, 03:25:39 pm »
Can someone tell me how in the hell TWO dead ships. In damn near LUNAR ORBIT. More, or less at a dead stop right above the freaking MOON! Get sucked into Earths gravity well. Travel to Earth from the moon in less than FIVE minutes with NO POWER! Damn near crash on earth! Meanwhile the crippled "uber ship" almost collides with the big E at the same spot right above San Francisco. Starfleet Headquarters must be at the center of this huge ass gravity well, because everything in JJ Trek seems to gravitate towards it. From the Narada, To the Big E. To The Death Star, err I mean the "Black Knight", err i mean.. Ah Hell its yet another Ubership the size of a freaking Borg Cube.

I suppose if a JJ Trek 3 is made the Klingon "ubership" will be the size of Vger.

Dont get me wrong the movie was "Entertaining" despite the "Been there, Done that" plot. Its just it has plot holes the size of a black hole.

Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2013, 04:40:23 pm »
Can someone tell me how in the hell TWO dead ships. In damn near LUNAR ORBIT. More, or less at a dead stop right above the freaking MOON! Get sucked into Earths gravity well.


Oh, Stress, thank you, I needed that laugh right now...

Just saw today, still thinking about it, and mostly not polite thoughts, but, um.... the music wasn't bad. Some early scenes actually sounded in the style of TOS.

And, uh... I liked the little trails left after the ship goes into warp...

I have many more thigns to say, but, for now, this "FAQ" kinda speaks for me..
http://io9.com/star-trek-into-darkness-the-spoiler-faq-508927844?utm_source=recirculation&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=afternoon

Offline manitoba1073

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2013, 05:30:10 pm »
Can someone tell me how in the hell TWO dead ships. In damn near LUNAR ORBIT. More, or less at a dead stop right above the freaking MOON! Get sucked into Earths gravity well. Travel to Earth from the moon in less than FIVE minutes with NO POWER! Damn near crash on earth! Meanwhile the crippled "uber ship" almost collides with the big E at the same spot right above San Francisco. Starfleet Headquarters must be at the center of this huge ass gravity well, because everything in JJ Trek seems to gravitate towards it. From the Narada, To the Big E. To The Death Star, err I mean the "Black Knight", err i mean.. Ah Hell its yet another Ubership the size of a freaking Borg Cube.

I suppose if a JJ Trek 3 is made the Klingon "ubership" will be the size of Vger.

Dont get me wrong the movie was "Entertaining" despite the "Been there, Done that" plot. Its just it has plot holes the size of a black hole.

 Sure can tell you, as its fairly obvious. They were not stuck in moon orbit. They still had some ability to maneuver, The Enterprise happened to lose all power after it had headed to Earth from the moon. And so did the Dreadnaught.



Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2013, 11:42:24 pm »
Can someone tell me how in the hell TWO dead ships. In damn near LUNAR ORBIT. More, or less at a dead stop right above the freaking MOON! Get sucked into Earths gravity well.


Oh, Stress, thank you, I needed that laugh right now...

Just saw today, still thinking about it, and mostly not polite thoughts, but, um.... the music wasn't bad. Some early scenes actually sounded in the style of TOS.

And, uh... I liked the little trails left after the ship goes into warp...

I have many more thigns to say, but, for now, this "FAQ" kinda speaks for me..
http://io9.com/star-trek-into-darkness-the-spoiler-faq-508927844?utm_source=recirculation&utm_medium=recirculation&utm_campaign=afternoon


Wow now all we need is an Honest Trailer.

Offline TheStressPuppy

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2013, 11:44:27 pm »
It seemed pretty ridiculous to me. I know it was a plot device to set up the literal "kick starting" of the warp core. The part that got me the most was the almost mid air collision of the big E, and the dreadnought. I just said "you got to be kidding me".

Like i said the movie was pretty entertaining, but it does have its facepalm moments.

Offline Czar Mohab

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2013, 01:56:04 am »
Dont get me wrong the movie was "Entertaining" despite the "Been there, Done that" plot. Its just it has plot holes the size of a black hole.


Since black holes are supposed to range in size from 0.1mm to 400AU, I have to assume that you intend your comment to mean the bigger, 400AU black holess; however, I must point out that there were plot holes of varying sizes and intensity, and, therefore, we can easily assume that the vast majority of the spectrum of black hole sizes was represented in this movie, provided your analogy is taken literally.

I also have a very nerdy explanation as to why the "fall to Earth" just isn't very believable, but I don't want to out-nerd myself. Suffice to say that it just doesn't make any sense to me, either.

Should also add a few of these with these two face-palms.

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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2013, 09:45:00 pm »

Why are there barcode scanner guns all over the ship (most notably the pair on the Helm, and 4 others on the bridge)? OK, I get we need to use today's things to show us the future, but couldn't we at least try to hide them better? Or give them a purpose? In Generations Picard's "son" is playing with a toy that I remember seeing commercials for (it was from the Aliens movie that came out just before) but at least it looked like it belonged... and had a purpose... These barcode scanners make me think the crew is going to be registering for a baby shower or wedding or something...

and





Well, they need the barcode scanners if they're going to be selling iphones.

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2013, 01:22:06 pm »
I thought that it was better than Nemesis.  I couldn't believe that anyone could have made as bad a film as Nemesis. I can believe that someone could make as bad a film as this. I'm just disappointed that it happened. I feel ripped off here. I went back for seconds of 2009. 2009 was stupid fun. This was just stupid and insulting. Once will be more than enough. I keep reading other comments and reviews glowing about homages. Screw that! The alternate timeline was supposed to free them up to right new adventures, not boldly twist where we have gone before. Lame, bankrupt effort.
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Offline TheStressPuppy

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2013, 05:42:08 pm »
Before i saw the film i was already spoiled on it. I saw the rants about the film redoing old stuff, but with a twist, and i thought hey it was bound to happen, and it was JJ giving the fans what they demanded, and wanted... Well in this case I think JJ Abrams made a HUGE mistake.

Trek fans are the most Nit Picky, and Unforgiving critics on the face of the earth. I am convinced that nothing will satisfy us. No matter how original, or how much effort is put into a show, or movie. Someone will always find something to complain about, or say "This isn't Star Trek, because it doesn't have this, or that, or it does this, or that inconstantly of Trek canon", and that complaining will just rise to fever pitch. Just like it did for DS-9, Voyager, Enterprise, and especially Nemesis.

 In Into Darkness case the fans do have a reason to bitch. We already knew that this is NOT Star Trek like we knew it before. So why the hell did JJ Abrams cave in, and give the fans what they wanted?. People demanded KHAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!!! and he delivered. Unfortunately his delivery IMO was an abysmal failure.

I usually don't follow the rank, and file, and i actually LIKED 2009, but in this case i have to agree with the rants. Especially Bernard Schneiders. After seeing the movie a second time (for free). I was astounded by how UN-original Into Darkness was. Almost a bad carbon copy of Wrath of KHAAAAAAAAAAAN!!! but they just tossed a Rogue Admiral in it to say "see this is different". However we already had Rogue Admirals before too. The only thing "Original" here is the Big-E gets its ass royally handed to itself.

There is so much that could have been done in the new rebooted universe. Instead Into Darkness "Boldly went where we all have been before". Except it tried to use the non-stop action, and "coolness" to hide horrible writing, and re-telling of an old story.

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2013, 11:36:12 pm »
If you thin trek fans are picky, wait until star wars fans see what JJ does with star wars. If he boots that, he better lookout!
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Offline TheStressPuppy

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2013, 06:25:36 am »
George Lucas will still be there as an "adviser", and George did a good enough job screwing up his own creation on his own. Between the both of them we will probably get a character that makes Jar Jar look like Darth Vader. o.0

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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2013, 01:04:35 pm »
Well, here's the important thing to remember about JJ-Trek - it's not for the fans, nitpickers or not. It's for the general movie-going public, and I'm pretty sure that holds up for Star Wars too. While us Trekkies and fanboys see the movies more than once, we're not the ones who drive up the ticket sales into the billions. To be fair to JJ (and it pains me to do so), most of the Trek movies are more for the general audience and not Trekkies, especially 2-6. Personally, I  prefer the TNG movies for the reason that they seem more like the TV show (being made by the same production staff), but even those fell into the trap of "big bad guy must get blown up a Captain having a romance" action plot.

Just today saw an interesting infographic about movie franchises.
http://www.newyorker.com/sandbox/business/hollywood-franchises.html
When you sort it by overall gross, Trek is way down in the range of franchises like Mission Impossible and Transformers. Which, when you think about, makes both the choice of JJ and the scripts of JJ-Trek seem obvious, like they were spit out by a computer.

Offline d4v1ks

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2013, 01:09:11 pm »
 :laugh:
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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2013, 01:45:04 pm »
You know, I really didn't think Nemesis was that bad at the time. Disappointing, maybe, but better than Voyage Home, or Final Frontier. Compared to Into Darkness, it's freakin brilliant....

SPOILER ALERT


Overall it's such a typical, modern action movie, and I don't mean that kindly. They're not badly made,  lots of money ia spent on effects and music and shiny lens flare, and audiences eat them up, but somewhere along the line "contrived" and "overly-plotted" got confused for "clever" and "intelligent." It reminded me of a Die Hard movie, and while many of us liked those, even the first one is just a stupid collection of one-liners and flying bullets. Sure, there's a nice moment when McClane is hurt and thinking of his seperated wife, so you feel for him, 'cause there's a swell of music and Bruce Willis is an decent actor, but then there's another bad guy to blast. So, when Khan gets all weepy thinking of his crew popsicles, you can go, "gee, maybe he's not that bad a guy," but it doesn't stick, because Old Spock gets on the horn and reminds nuSpock that Khan is bad.

In regards to Leonard Nimoy, in the words of McCoy, "I liked him better when he was dead."

Speaking of dying... When Pike is laying there in pain and dying, Spock reaches out and mindmelds with him, and I'm thinking, "he's helping Pike with the pain, or Pike has one last inspirational nugget to tell Kirk so he'll stop being a raging dickhead." Later on, we find out, no, it's
THAT SPOCK IS A CREEPY VOYUER WHO JUST WANTS TO FEEL SOMEONE DIE!!

I mean, wtf?? That Pike was feeling alone and confused and disappointed to be dying?? THAT'S not really surprising, is it? And that's his compelling argument to his girlfriend that he's keeping his emotions in check, 'cause, we're all alone you know, and, my planet and Mommy gots blown up, so there, but not because he's a FREAKING VULCAN and that's what they do, right?

Note to JJ: I really don't mind Spock & Uhura hooking up. Neither one seems really able to handle a workplace romance in a professional manner, but a visit from Starfleet Human Resources could clear that up. I mean, it's the 23rd century, right? And sure, JJ, you can rejigger the big E, make it huge and with  brewery for and engine room, whatever. But just name-checking "Mudd" and "Gorns" in the script, throwing the odd tribble on screen and making sure the we remember that Kirk is a mac-daddy DOES NOT MAKE IT STAR TREK. Just reversing the whole "who's dying in the radiation chamber and who's on the outside crying over it" does not make us happy. I thought the whole point of this alternate timeline was that you could make your own Trek, not just cherrypick classic moments and reshuffle them around.

True story - when I was 10, my friends and I spent the summer worrying about the "new" Star Trek that was coming. It was 1973 and the animated show was on it's way, and we were all convinced that it was going to be goofy, like "Scooby Doo" or Kirk was going to have a sidekick like Batmite on "The NEw Adventures of Batman." Lo and behold, when the first episode of TAS aired, we were blown away about how smart it was, and how much it just felt like Star Trek. Every time another movie came along, I felt the same pangs of fear, and as TMP through The Voyage Home came out, I nitpicked and carped like a good Trekkie should, but I learned to accept them into the fold. When it started coming back to TV, I really fell in love again, seeing a new version more like the old, and even when Enterprised disappointed me with it's crappy theme song or DS9 added a holographic character that made JarJar look clever, I could hang on to the good I saw.

JJ, you're breaking my heart. You can make a big movie, but you don't get Trek. He recently announced on TDS that he "didn't really like Star Trek."

Yeah, dude, we noticed. Please hand it back over to someone who actually does.

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2013, 02:19:17 pm »
I hadn't thought originally that the meld between Pike and Spock was creepy, but I see your point.  I think it's just another rushed, poorly done moment.

I hadn't been surprised by the meld as I was thinking he might provide Pike some comfort through the meld as well as the "pass some cheerleading thing" or wisdom onto to Kirk bit. However, something that gets lost here is that before Kirk gets recruited in the bar, who is Pike mentoring? Spock. In the 2009 movie is he not Pike's 1st officer? In classic trek Spock risks the death penalty to get Pike back to Talos IV for his well being. There's a Pike / Spock relationship here as well that predates and gets pushed back on screen in favor of the new Kirk mentoring bit.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2013, 11:00:11 pm »
One thing I thought was pretty cool...

Remember the whole Speech between Khan and his Helmsman in TWOK? I'll chase him around the moons of Nibia and partitions flames, etc. blah blah.

Anyone notice the name of the planet at the beginning of the movie?
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Offline Czar Mohab

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2013, 10:04:40 am »
[nerd]

One thing I thought was pretty cool...

Remember the whole Speech between Khan and his Helmsman in TWOK? I'll chase him around the moons of Nibia and partitions flames, etc. blah blah.

Anyone notice the name of the planet at the beginning of the movie?

Quote from: Khan Noonien "Corinthian Leather" Singh
He tasks me. He tasks me and I shall have him! I'll chase him 'round the moons of Nibia and 'round the Antares Maelstrom and 'round Perdition's flames before I give him up!

Helmsman's name is Joachim[/nerd]

Now that that is out of the way...

I honestly think that JJ messed up royally with the ending as well. Everything else about the movie aside (let's pretend its good for a moment), the ending blew a HUGE opportunity for super-cash with the next installment. I don't know about you, but I don't really want to see what happens next. I've seen the original 5 year mission. I've read the books that fill in the gaps between episodes. There's not much left for Kirk and Co. to do, especially since this movie was essentially "The Wrath of the Space Seed of Khan".

Which brings me to the ending.

10 or so minutes from the end we have Spock and Khan fighting. Uhura beams down and zaps Khan. Spock is about to kill Khan when he's told that Khan must live to save Kirk. Spock punches Khan so hard that the camera cuts to black. Right here is where the movie should have ended. Seriously. Cut to black, roll credits. The next 8 minutes or so can then be expanded to 20 and form the beginnings of JJ Trek 3: The Search for More Cash. This ending would at least raise my curiosity about what happens next enough that I might actually want to see it. Yes, it will still suck, and I will still feel cheated as it will just be a rehash of Balance of Terror or some other already done and super awesome episode from the 5 year mission... But the seed would have been planted.

The ending now (and honestly the movie overall) does not make me want to see JJ Trek 3 in the theaters, if at all.

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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2013, 06:16:28 pm »
If you thin trek fans are picky, wait until star wars fans see what JJ does with star wars. If he boots that, he better lookout!

He is a Star Wars fan.

He should never go to a Trek convention if after butchering Trek he sticks by Star Wars canon.  Not if he wants to live.
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2013, 07:50:26 pm »
For the record, the planet at the beginning of the Into Darkness is "Nibiru," so any similarities to "the moons of Nibia" is probably coincidental.

As far as the "new" 5-year mission, I thought the whole point of the new timeline is that all bets are off and JJ can do what he wants, so I woudln't expect just a redo of seasons 1-3. After all, in JJ-verse, it's 2259, 7 years before the first season, and they already know or run into - Mudd, tribbles, Gorns and by dialogue in '09, are already aware that Romulans are off-shoots of the Vulcans.


Offline knightstorm

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2013, 09:00:23 pm »
If you thin trek fans are picky, wait until star wars fans see what JJ does with star wars. If he boots that, he better lookout!

He is a Star Wars fan.

He should never go to a Trek convention if after butchering Trek he sticks by Star Wars canon.  Not if he wants to live.

Then he should do just that.  The sooner he dies, the sooner I can get to urinating on his grave.

Offline Sirgod

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #32 on: May 29, 2013, 05:44:04 pm »
For the record, the planet at the beginning of the Into Darkness is "Nibiru," so any similarities to "the moons of Nibia" is probably coincidental.

As far as the "new" 5-year mission, I thought the whole point of the new timeline is that all bets are off and JJ can do what he wants, so I woudln't expect just a redo of seasons 1-3. After all, in JJ-verse, it's 2259, 7 years before the first season, and they already know or run into - Mudd, tribbles, Gorns and by dialogue in '09, are already aware that Romulans are off-shoots of the Vulcans.



My complete bad then, My hearing is pretty bad in my old age, So thanks for the correction there buddy.

Stephen
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2013, 05:48:24 pm »
Dude, speaking of anti JJism. I was just told off by someone at the BCC forums for commenting on the same topic we have here. I mentioned how a lot of people in my theatre complained that the lens flare was too much. He told me I have no life, as a matter of fact he said all people who complained about JJ lens flare have less a life then the people who complain about Trekkies. Kind of called me an idiot too.
I had I tell him that my opinion of JJverse is directed to JJ n the movie not to the fans who like JJTrek. Eh. Made me mad.

Adam

Sheesh, you will find idiots anywhere. I mean, I enjoyed the movie some what more than those here, But I'd never in any way, dispute those who didn't care for it, as I've seen damn good reasons not to listed here.

This is why these boards are more like a home, No one is likely to be offended here.

I did notice, that one of my major gripes from the first movie , is what saved the crew in the second. In the first, all Kirk did was hang around, off of anything, he just hung off of things. In the new movie, his hanging kick knocked that doohickey (That's okie slang for high tech engineering devices on the Enterprise) and got power restored.

I suppose all those pull ups did some good.

Stephen
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Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2013, 06:11:17 pm »
My son says the character is an android. I told him that I hoped he was just implanted along the lines of the binars.
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Offline Starfox1701

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2013, 06:12:06 pm »
The doohickey would be the the anti matter injector assemble.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2013, 06:12:16 pm »
Hmmm. Maybe Mr. Android/ implant guy is this timelines Norman? (coordinate)
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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2013, 06:25:05 pm »
I was thinking of a Bynar too, although this one is like the supermodel of his species that shows up on Binar magazine covers, but a JJ-version of Norman sounds cool too. But he's just there because JJ liked the cantina bar scene from Star Wars...


ps ANOTHER thing I hated - the afore-mentioned doohickey. Being that it's the crucial part of the matter/ANTIMATTER warp core, shouldn't Kirk been, you know, VAPORISED? Forget radiation, that boy should be toast.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2013, 06:50:25 pm »
I was thinking of a Bynar too, although this one is like the supermodel of his species that shows up on Binar magazine covers, but a JJ-version of Norman sounds cool too. But he's just there because JJ liked the cantina bar scene from Star Wars...


ps ANOTHER thing I hated - the afore-mentioned doohickey. Being that it's the crucial part of the matter/ANTIMATTER warp core, shouldn't Kirk been, you know, VAPORISED? Forget radiation, that boy should be toast.

 Considering it was offline when he was kicking it, Id say nope. However the residual radiation was bad enough.



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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2013, 08:53:13 pm »
I was thinking of a Bynar too, although this one is like the supermodel of his species that shows up on Binar magazine covers, but a JJ-version of Norman sounds cool too. But he's just there because JJ liked the cantina bar scene from Star Wars...


ps ANOTHER thing I hated - the afore-mentioned doohickey. Being that it's the crucial part of the matter/ANTIMATTER warp core, shouldn't Kirk been, you know, VAPORISED? Forget radiation, that boy should be toast.

 Considering it was offline when he was kicking it, Id say nope. However the residual radiation was bad enough.

But it comes online right away when his last kick does the trick, so Kirk should get annihilated.  :skeptic:
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2013, 10:08:29 pm »
I was thinking of a Bynar too, although this one is like the supermodel of his species that shows up on Binar magazine covers, but a JJ-version of Norman sounds cool too. But he's just there because JJ liked the cantina bar scene from Star Wars...


ps ANOTHER thing I hated - the afore-mentioned doohickey. Being that it's the crucial part of the matter/ANTIMATTER warp core, shouldn't Kirk been, you know, VAPORISED? Forget radiation, that boy should be toast.

 Considering it was offline when he was kicking it, Id say nope. However the residual radiation was bad enough.

But it comes online right away when his last kick does the trick, so Kirk should get annihilated.  :skeptic:

 It came on shortly after he fell down the side. It only register on the computers that it was aligned, then they restarted it, all shortly after he fell.



Offline Sirgod

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2013, 10:46:22 pm »
Did you guys notice the guy on the bridge that sounded like a machine and had the cybernetic implant on the back of his head?

Adam

That blue thing on the back of his head, was a small copy of the Top of the bridge. You know how the old show, had the red beacon at the top of the interior bridge, In the movie, it is blue.

I think he is also in the comic, along with cupcake, but I am not sure, as It's all second hand info bro.

Stephen
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Offline Czar Mohab

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2013, 01:40:42 pm »
Hehehehehe

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2013, 06:08:47 pm »
many a face-palm moments in STID, and the Klinks weren't the worst. At least they spoke Okrand-designed klingonasse, and had bat'leths, even if they were fancy ones.

For the record, cyborg dude on the bridge is identified as "Science Officer 0718." So, not something canon like we all thought, but just something they thought looked "neat."
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Science_Officer_0718

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2013, 06:32:12 pm »
Somewhere Berman and Braga are congratulating each other since it has been proven that there is someone less suited to make Star Trek than them.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2013, 06:52:35 pm »
Somewhere Berman and Braga are congratulating each other since it has been proven that there is someone less suited to make Star Trek than them.

Well, Berman was responsible for the best decade in the franchises history so there's a lot of people who are less suited to make Star Trek than him, but Abrams is definitely one of them.

Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #46 on: May 30, 2013, 08:40:02 pm »
Here, here. To me, despite the stumbles, all the TV Trek from 1966-69, 1973, 1987 to 2005 WAS Star Trek, and the movies were just struggling to make money. Kudos to Roddenberry, Coon, Fontana and Berman for making it.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2013, 12:44:00 pm »
Just saw it yesterday, I couldn't believe what I saw. It was a sad day for trek, I don't wanna spoil anything but it was terrible :hoppin:

Adam

Hah ha hah ha ha - The HATE is STRONG in this one!

Dead on!


Offline knightstorm

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2013, 05:29:06 pm »

For the record, cyborg dude on the bridge is identified as "Science Officer 0718." So, not something canon like we all thought, but just something they thought looked "neat."
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Science_Officer_0718


Personally, I think this post captures everything I'll need to know about that film.

Offline Czar Mohab

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2013, 12:01:07 am »

For the record, cyborg dude on the bridge is identified as "Science Officer 0718." So, not something canon like we all thought, but just something they thought looked "neat."
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Science_Officer_0718


Personally, I think this post captures everything I'll need to know about that film.


I know I've seen that exact character (bald cyborg that connects to the main computer with a [at the time of filming] scripted but not generally known name) somewhere else before... *DIGS AROUND INTERNET*

Yup. I was right.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lobot

Can't even steal from the correct franchise. Sad. For both. Just a little less sad, however, than the fact that JJ has the great potential to crash and burn *that* franchise as well...

The Czar

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Offline Age

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2013, 04:58:30 pm »
I saw this lastnight and thought it is to fast paced lack of story line and a rip off of The Wrath of Kahn.It went from the being here to there to here and there etc etc.JJ couldn't come up with his very own storyline that he had to rip it off from Gene's TWoK and Spock being in it again.It makes for good fast paced sci fi movie but it isn't Star Trek.

I am just glad I din't pay to go and see it yes I dled it.

It did give me an idea how to bring back Kirk to use nanites from 7 of 9 after all it was writtin in the book.

Offline EschelonOfJudgemnt

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2013, 07:09:17 pm »
it seems that some of you are having the same reaction that I had with the first JJ outing...

'That's 2+ hours of my life I'm not getting back..."

Haven't seen STID, because I KNOW I would be disappointed.  And it sounds like my 'pulling random rabbits out of hats'  observation r.e. Abram's 'scriptwriting/directing' style is still dead on the mark with the second outing.

What makes me even more sad is that this encourages the further 'dumbing down' of the average moviegoer.  At least the Star Trek franchise pre-Abrams made some attempts at intellectual stimulation, and at showing deep meaningful relationships!

But, for those looking for mindless action dramas, I'm sure it's great.  Terminator and Aliens (Alien 2) were great too, but then they didn't need to be overly complicated, just cool.

Just remember, friends do not let friends get STID's.

Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #52 on: July 12, 2013, 09:30:10 am »
Not to nitpick (ok, I'm a Trekkie, I live to nitpick), but TWOK wasn't "Gene's" - he was pointedly cut out of the ST movie process ST2 onwards, as a "consultant" who as rarely listened to or tolerated, frankly.

That's why I prefer ST TV to the TOS movies - they were Trek'lite, IMHO

Offline knightstorm

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2013, 09:47:14 am »
Not to nitpick (ok, I'm a Trekkie, I live to nitpick), but TWOK wasn't "Gene's" - he was pointedly cut out of the ST movie process ST2 onwards, as a "consultant" who as rarely listened to or tolerated, frankly.

That's why I prefer ST TV to the TOS movies - they were Trek'lite, IMHO

Gene had a few good ideas in the 60s, but outside of that he was a disaster.  The only film where he was a major creative influence was TMP.  Paramount blamed him for it, which was why he was cut out of the other films.  They only brought him on board for TNG because they needed to create a link to TOS.  And the first season of TNG which he had full creative control over SUCKED.

Offline Age

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2013, 04:49:23 pm »
I would say it was DC Fontana who linked TOS  to the TNG episodes as for the films that would be Harve Beneette.I would say Gene authorised them.

Offline Tulwar

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2013, 05:55:56 pm »
I wanted to know weather this ST was worth the time it took to watch, let alone the ticket price.  While WoK was OK, the rest of the ST movies went were either bad, worse, or ST V.  The only high point of the first JJ ST was Dr. McCoy.  The actor, his lines, and his delivery were absolutely perfect.  Other than that, especially the model of the Big E, everything did suckith.

I guess they're doing the same thing with movies that they did with cartoons.  When I was little, cartoon characters were portrayed as adults.  By the time I was a teenager, the characters were all being voiced by overly emotional, young sounding actors.  I'm not sure how that works, because when I was a child, I never wanted to see anything about other children.  I wanted to see real men doing manly things.

I guess more children want characters they can empathize with.  Either that, or Hollywood thinks that children empathize with other children.  This ST is not for us.  The owners of the franchise are looking for a new audience to exploit, and they are willing to flush anything good that was inherently good about ST down the toilet to do it.

This ST isn't writen for us.  Just how they're supposed to snare another generation with unbelievable characters, crumby sets, goofy storylines, and ugly spaceship models is beyond me.  I'll never understand why they never pick up on the ST novels for storylines, and use fan designs for starship models.  Ah, ST fans are just "trekkies."  I don't think they've figured out that most "trekkies" only but the ST merchandice that they like.  They think we buy just anything with a ST lable.

I didn't buy a ticket to see Nemisis, and I've flipped though it when it came to telivision.  I was curious enough to go to the first JJ Trek, but I don't want to suffer through another.  I really don't need much to go to a ST movie.  What I require is a cool spaceship model.  I don't need a good plot, good acting, or anthing else any other genera would require.  Just one good model.  They can't even to that.  To Hades with the whole ST franchise.  Years from now, when this comes to television, I'm going to watch it up until the first commercial interruption, then I'll watch something else.
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Offline Tulwar

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2013, 06:05:26 pm »
Not to nitpick (ok, I'm a Trekkie, I live to nitpick), but TWOK wasn't "Gene's" - he was pointedly cut out of the ST movie process ST2 onwards, as a "consultant" who as rarely listened to or tolerated, frankly.

That's why I prefer ST TV to the TOS movies - they were Trek'lite, IMHO

Gene had a few good ideas in the 60s, but outside of that he was a disaster.  The only film where he was a major creative influence was TMP.  Paramount blamed him for it, which was why he was cut out of the other films.  They only brought him on board for TNG because they needed to create a link to TOS.  And the first season of TNG which he had full creative control over SUCKED.

Old Matt Jeffries is the figure from TOS that I miss.  In an interview, he said he went to see ST TMP, thought that the Enterprise bridge looked like a discotech, said he fell asleep, and he never watched any ST production since.  He was the man that came up with both the Enterpise and the Klingon battlecruiser designs.  Perhaps he was a larger figure in the character of the origional ST production than anyone imagined.
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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2013, 08:40:38 am »
I would say it was DC Fontana who linked TOS  to the TNG episodes as for the films that would be Harve Beneette.I would say Gene authorised them.

As mentioned, GR was cut out after TMP and could no more "authorize" ST and merely a consultant. Parmount owned it and gave it to Harve Bennett. GR had major complaints with TWOK scripts and fought with Meyers that Bennett tried to compromise for, although defaulting to Meyer's in most.

Offline Age

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2013, 06:25:57 pm »
I wanted to know weather this ST was worth the time it took to watch, let alone the ticket price.  While WoK was OK, the rest of the ST movies went were either bad, worse, or ST V. 
I liked all the TOS crew movies even 5 more so than I can say for the TNG movies they were better on the small screen.

What I mean by authorize is the canon of Trek meaning NX01 Enterpise is not a canon ship as Gene didn't authorize it.It wasn't mentioned in previose Trek movies/shows.I doubt Gene would of let Kirk die at the end of Generations.

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2013, 12:40:45 pm »
JJ Trek = BSG 1980
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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2013, 12:57:54 pm »
well, by that logic, nothing in Trek after "Best of Both Worlds" is canon, since that's about when GR passed, in 1991. The notion of "canon" gets bandied about without really getting what it is - it's really the name for what we see and fitting it together, rather than some sort of secret notebook that "is" ST. Gene was a big proponent in pushing this meme, in part because of what little control he really had over Trek post-TMP and pre-TNG. The standing definition since he came up with "what is canon Trek" is, what gets aired or screened is Star Trek, leaving out the print fiction. SO even if Gene (or DC Fontana or any other "Trek originator") didn't like parts of TWOK or ST5, it's still considered "Satr Trek." Sadly to me, this includes the JJ-Trekm but at least he had the decency to go to a parallel timeline for that.

Since GR had already "moved on" to TNG, I'm sure he'd have no problem killing off Shatner, er, Kirk. ;)

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2013, 05:49:01 pm »
Quote
Since GR had already "moved on" to TNG, I'm sure he'd have no problem killing off Shatner, er, Kirk.
That is why most turned there backs on Trek alteast most baby boomers who grew up with it.It happened agian when data died in Nemisis.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2013, 09:04:09 am »
well, as someone who grew up right behind those "baby boomers," they can kiss my shiny metal @$$

I really don't think "most" turned away from ST over Kirk's death. I know a lot of fans, (and I do mean alot) and most have stayed with it. The way I see it, there were those TOS fans (who were a minority) who never ever like TNG et. al.  and so gave up on ST; there are those who did like TNG etc and stayed with it; and then there are those, now adults though young enough to be my kids, who came to it all after ST went off air. I met a 15-year old kid last month who had some of the best comments on a TOS episode I've heard in years.

As  much as many were disappointed in "Nemesis," had Paramount allowed another TNG (or TNG-era) movie, "most" would have turned out (especially given the huge turnouts "BOBW" had in movie theaters this spring). And Data wasn't really gone - he was just locked away inside of B4 (I mean, if they can bring back Spock, fer crissakes...)

What is universal among fans, in my experience, is how much we all dislike JJ-Trek.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #63 on: July 17, 2013, 05:53:08 pm »
Quote
I really don't think "most" turned away from ST over Kirk's death. I know a lot of fans,
I would really say the heard core fans did those that were more into ToS which most are baby boomers ever since then sales plumetted on ST merchandise.The fan mag Star Trek communicator closed shortly after the end of Nemisis which Data did die.

With Kirk and Data gone fans lost interest.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #64 on: July 17, 2013, 08:52:01 pm »
Well, everyone's entitled to their opinion. But yours is wrong ;)

As the coordinator of my local Star Trek Meet-Up group, we are over 160 people strong, and growing every month. While there are some of those who do actually like JJ-Trek, they are a minority, and almost every one likes TOS & TNG. I can't quote market sales off the top of my head, the fact there is sooo much stuff coming out from tshirts and posters and Legos (excuse me, Kree-os), I'd say your wrong about that too.

Sorry, but what bugs me the most about the baby boomers is their insistence that what belongs to them is their's and no one else can appreciate it the right way.

Plenty of Trekkies still out here, loving Trek of all Generations :)

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #65 on: July 18, 2013, 02:05:04 pm »
This is prevelent mostly in North America as there are lots of TOS fans more so than TNG.There are lots of TNG in Europe compared to TOS.That is why SFB is bigger in North America.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2013, 05:31:05 am »
This is prevelent mostly in North America as there are lots of TOS fans more so than TNG.There are lots of TNG in Europe compared to TOS.That is why SFB is bigger in North America.

Ah No.  By the time Generations was released, it was clear that there weren't going to be any new TOS based procutions.  The original cast was aging.  Kirk at least got to die kicking %$$.  As for SFB being bigger in North America, that's because, its a board game that nobody's heard of made by a company based in Texas.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2013, 06:00:31 pm »
This is prevelent mostly in North America as there are lots of TOS fans more so than TNG.There are lots of TNG in Europe compared to TOS.That is why SFB is bigger in North America.

Ah No.  By the time Generations was released, it was clear that there weren't going to be any new TOS based procutions.  The original cast was aging.  Kirk at least got to die kicking %$$. 
That, I was very assure of to bad Paramount would of made more if they continued with the Orignal cast more so then TNG.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #68 on: July 19, 2013, 08:38:32 pm »
This is prevelent mostly in North America as there are lots of TOS fans more so than TNG.There are lots of TNG in Europe compared to TOS.That is why SFB is bigger in North America.

Ah No.  By the time Generations was released, it was clear that there weren't going to be any new TOS based procutions.  The original cast was aging.  Kirk at least got to die kicking %$$. 
That, I was very assure of to bad Paramount would of made more if they continued with the Orignal cast more so then TNG.

The original cast officially retired from Starfleet at the end of Star Trek VI.  Even if they hadn't, the cast was getting on in years, and they started dying off after Generations.  Mark Lenard died in 1996, Deforest Kelly died in 1999, James Doohan died in 2005.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2013, 08:05:43 pm »
This is prevelent mostly in North America as there are lots of TOS fans more so than TNG.There are lots of TNG in Europe compared to TOS.That is why SFB is bigger in North America.

Ah No.  By the time Generations was released, it was clear that there weren't going to be any new TOS based procutions.  The original cast was aging.  Kirk at least got to die kicking %$$. 
That, I was very assure of to bad Paramount would of made more if they continued with the Orignal cast more so then TNG.

The original cast officially retired from Starfleet at the end of Star Trek VI.  Even if they hadn't, the cast was getting on in years, and they started dying off after Generations.  Mark Lenard died in 1996, Deforest Kelly died in 1999, James Doohan died in 2005.
I know that but they could of continued even without them just wite in the script.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2013, 12:39:44 am »
This is prevelent mostly in North America as there are lots of TOS fans more so than TNG.There are lots of TNG in Europe compared to TOS.That is why SFB is bigger in North America.

Ah No.  By the time Generations was released, it was clear that there weren't going to be any new TOS based procutions.  The original cast was aging.  Kirk at least got to die kicking %$$. 
That, I was very assure of to bad Paramount would of made more if they continued with the Orignal cast more so then TNG.

The original cast officially retired from Starfleet at the end of Star Trek VI.  Even if they hadn't, the cast was getting on in years, and they started dying off after Generations.  Mark Lenard died in 1996, Deforest Kelly died in 1999, James Doohan died in 2005.
I know that but they could of continued even without them just wite in the script.

But one must not forget that "Admiral McCoy" was escorted to the shuttle bay by Data in TNG:Encounter at Farpoint. Most retired country doctors with a military (or military like) rank such as Commander tend not to be promoted at all upon retirement from that service...

There is this:
Quote from: From McCoy's Memory Alpha Page
The reference manual Star Trek: The Next Generation Officer's Manual gives reference McCoy holding, in actuality, a special rank known as "branch admiral".


What I am getting at is, even though the crew may have been retired, put to pasture, or whatever, the crew may have felt some connection between themselves and the ship, even if that connection was in name only; a connection so deep that they felt that dropping by and saying hello was required.

I firmly believe that a ship has a life of her own, her own personality, her own quirks, places she likes to be touched, and special ways of talking to her... It goes beyond crews and wires and pipes...  Its something you can feel as soon as you set foot on board - the soft sigh of her deck plates when you set foot aboard for the first time in ages, the air of relaxation as she rests on the blocks in dry dock for repairs, the pulse quickening adrenalin rush when battle stations is sounded... I've set foot on various ships at various stages of life (and death) and every one of them I could feel their personality... but there is only one that holds a place in my heart.

In TNG:Relics Scotty and Picard have a long conversation about that special ship; "the one" if you will.

Now, TPTB could have made ST:7 and maybe ST:8 using the "old" crew, perhaps even having a better tie-in to Generations... Cast wise they were getting older and tireder. Character wise they would have retired soon after ST:6/7/8 anyway. So to see the three retirees on the -B and the one on the -D, and throwing in the assumption that someone was there on the -C, it makes sense from a screen-to-real-life point of view (knowing what happens in Generations to Kirk, and knowing how old Spock and McCoy are when Encounter at Farpoint happens, I like to assume that they were both present on the -C when she launched - that maybe just by being there some part of them, perhaps even that part of them that was touched by Kirk and the others, would imprint itself upon another Enterprise, and once again they would all boldly go...).

Quote from: G'Kar, Babylon 5 Season 5 Episode 20: Objects in Motion
I believe that when we leave a place, part of it goes with us and part of us remains. Go anywhere in the station when it is quiet, and just listen. After a while, you will hear the echoes of all our conversations, every thought and word we've exchanged. Long after we are gone, our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this place remains. But I will admit that the part of me that is going will very much miss the part of you that is staying

All of that aside - it is fairly safe to say that for anything, there are always fans that love all of it, some of it, or none of it. Not every fan of a thing is required to be a fan of all of a thing. I fully understand TOS fans not liking, say, TNG or DS9. BUt, in the end, I think that this argument has been pretty well  :2gun: :rant: :whip: :knuppel2: and  :laugh: over the years. It doesn't need my help.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #71 on: July 23, 2013, 02:01:57 pm »
Liking one over the other, sure, can't solve for that, but saying all fans left after TOS is just wrong. I don't know many "Europeans" at all (mostly Brits) and none of the Canadians I know are Trekkies, so all the fans I do know are from the U.S. of A. and none stopped being Trekkies 'cause TOS stopped.

As far as SFB goes, I think this is a skewed audience here. Most fans outside of these forum have ever heard of SFB.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #72 on: July 25, 2013, 07:12:15 pm »
I know that I ma talking about now as look alikes couldbe used and voice overs ventriliqists.

I really miss this era the most as JJ along with Bermon and Braga ruined Star Trek and JJ should just get the h out.Go do Star Wars
http://www.christianpost.com/news/star-wars-episode-7-news-update-lucasfilm-slams-latest-rumor-that-jj-abrams-is-quitting-cast-rumors-swirl-comic-con-mock-preview-trailer-video-100769/

btw There are lots of Cdn Star Trek fans old and new just look how many trek gamers there.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #73 on: July 25, 2013, 08:17:37 pm »
Berman saved Star Trek after Roddenberry went senile and nearly ran it into the ground.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2013, 12:21:37 pm »
Well, I wouldn't say GR went senile, but he always was a little spotty as a producer. A lot of what is good about TNG came from him, and others, in the first season; Berman et. al. certainly managed to keep ST going for 18 years.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #75 on: July 26, 2013, 01:17:37 pm »
He had dudes running around in skirts.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #76 on: July 26, 2013, 03:09:04 pm »
He had dudes running around in skirts.


So did the Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, Irish and Scots. What's your point?

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #77 on: July 26, 2013, 05:13:13 pm »
Berman saved Star Trek after Roddenberry went senile and nearly ran it into the ground.
He did kill it after bring out Enterpise and killing off to icons of that of Kirk and Data imgaine what it would of been like of Spack was not brought back.It would of been the end of Trek no one would of gone out to see another ST movie.

There are a lot of Kirk fans out there who are disappointed after Generations.I am one of them.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #78 on: July 26, 2013, 06:09:19 pm »
Berman saved Star Trek after Roddenberry went senile and nearly ran it into the ground.
He did kill it after bring out Enterpise and killing off to icons of that of Kirk and Data imgaine what it would of been like of Spack was not brought back.It would of been the end of Trek no one would of gone out to see another ST movie.

There are a lot of Kirk fans out there who are disappointed after Generations.I am one of them.

KIRK WAS ALREADY GONE!  There was NEVER going to be another TOS production by that point.  What does it matter.  As for Data, we don't know what they had planned for B4.  He saved Star Trek, and for some stupid reason, the studio chose to throw everything he had done down the toilet by letting Abrams pervert it.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #79 on: July 26, 2013, 06:15:57 pm »
... He saved Star Trek, and for some stupid reason, the studio chose to throw everything he had done down the toilet by letting Abrams pervert it.

That stupid reason, dear sir, looks a lot like "$". Or at least the hope that there would be plenty to go around...

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #80 on: July 27, 2013, 02:14:45 am »
Berman saved Star Trek after Roddenberry went senile and nearly ran it into the ground.
He did kill it after bring out Enterpise and killing off to icons of that of Kirk and Data imgaine what it would of been like of Spack was not brought back.It would of been the end of Trek no one would of gone out to see another ST movie.

There are a lot of Kirk fans out there who are disappointed after Generations.I am one of them.

KIRK WAS ALREADY GONE!  There was NEVER going to be another TOS production by that point.  What does it matter.  As for Data, we don't know what they had planned for B4.  He saved Star Trek, and for some stupid reason, the studio chose to throw everything he had done down the toilet by letting Abrams pervert it.
They did tinker with idea of having the TOS cast in ST 7 but decided not to.Who say hes gone?

Offline knightstorm

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #81 on: July 27, 2013, 08:14:57 am »

They did tinker with idea of having the TOS cast in ST 7 but decided not to.

They wanted them to make a brief guest appearance at the opening.  When they realized they didn't have the budget, it got cut down to the trio.  When they couldn't get Nimoy and Kelly to sign off, Scotty and Chekov were substituted.


Who say hes gone?

If he hadn't shown up in Generations we would have never seen Kirk on screen again.  The decision to end the original cast film series had been made years earlier.  Kirk and company rode off into the sunset at the end of ST VI.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #82 on: July 27, 2013, 04:30:39 pm »
Hear, hear. I agree with Knightstorm, TOS was finished with ST6, and may it R.I.P. I can't imagine  a post-6 movie with the TOS cast aging as they have, and other than Chekov and Uhura, we did get to what happened to them after they sailed off.

Sorry you consider Trek ending with Kirk, Age, but I really do think you're in the minority there

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #83 on: July 27, 2013, 05:00:05 pm »

They did tinker with idea of having the TOS cast in ST 7 but decided not to.

They wanted them to make a brief guest appearance at the opening.  When they realized they didn't have the budget, it got cut down to the trio.  When they couldn't get Nimoy and Kelly to sign off, Scotty and Chekov were substituted.


Who say hes gone?

If he hadn't shown up in Generations we would have never seen Kirk on screen again.  The decision to end the original cast film series had been made years earlier.  Kirk and company rode off into the sunset at the end of ST VI.
They were considering another flim with them.I just miss the old style of Trek with the ships of the 23 Century instead of the bemouths we see in the 24th yes like the canon ships of SFC.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #84 on: July 27, 2013, 06:23:27 pm »

They were considering another flim with them.

No they weren't.  In fact, the only reason we had VI was because paramount wanted to cash in on the 25th anniversary with a final original cast film.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #85 on: July 28, 2013, 08:37:18 pm »

They were considering another flim with them.

No they weren't.  In fact, the only reason we had VI was because paramount wanted to cash in on the 25th anniversary with a final original cast film.
Yes.They were as I found a youtube video about it some where.

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #86 on: July 29, 2013, 02:16:50 pm »
yeah, what he said..

"They" were talking about replacing the TOS actors BEFORE ST5, and fo' sure after that, with Harve Bennett's "Academy Years" script that he was pushing. (I, for one, am glad that didn't come about - coulda been worse the JJ_Trek)

Any TOS involvement on "Generations" was always on the level of a guest shot, and it was Berman who wanted to see TOS in a TNG movie, not the studio.

http://movies.trekcore.com/generations/behindthescenes.html

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #87 on: August 22, 2013, 11:34:00 am »
Just saw this so I thought I would throw it in.

Honest Trailers - Star Trek Into Darkness (feat. HISHE)

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #88 on: September 18, 2013, 06:25:12 am »
I did not really like the movie. They way the ship go to warp remind me of the new Galatica series.

The pd, not interfere in the natural evolution of a species, but they stop a volcano to erupt and destroyed the planet. Well it is interference to me, you prevent the planet to be destroyed by a volcano. And how com this volcano going to destroyed the planet?

When kirk go on Kronos on a shuttle, you can see a moon in close orbit and it remind me of Pracis, the Klingon moon that was destroyed in Startrek 6 Undiscovered country.

The torpedo  tubes on the side of the enterprise? It remind me of a drone ship.

The Enterprise is like the Tardis, its bigger in the inside, look at the warp core room. And what's outside the ship? Where Checkoff was, all the stuff that look like a sculpture. They have a big window on the bridge and its use as a view screen.  No one reacted to this dreadnought, I mean it was build into secrecy. Maybe because he's the head of starfleet? But when Scotty get into the construction site with his shuttle, no one have see him? No sensors have detected his shuttle? Wow, imagine a spy infiltrating the site and stealing blue print of the ship and use it against Starfleet?

The enterprise have shield that are useless.

But the timeline is so screw up since Vulcan was destroyed. Did Spock father survive? Where are the few Vulcan who survived the destruction of the planet?
 
When have not see a know species in the 2 new Star Trek movies, Andorian, the pig like species, denobulan or any other. Just new one and one that have a, well I don't know what it is on the back of his head. He look like a droid.

What the old Spock do for living? Trying to reunited them with the Vulcan? Its useless, Vulcan is gone and little Vulcan have fled the planet.

Is the Enterprise the only one of its class in this timeline?

How did they created the transwarp engines? That should be on the Excelsior 20 years from now. Did Khan help develop them? Sure, as much intelligent he have, he's 300 years behind. And how come Bones did not know about the cryogenic technology? He did say it was advance, and then he says its not been in use since the have warp ship. So is there any ship who have travel outside the solar system or in before Cochrane developed the warp engine?

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Re: Star Trek Into Darkness - Review and Discuss
« Reply #89 on: May 31, 2014, 11:09:22 pm »
I finally saw it on Netflix.  The film flowed ok, I guess.  Other than that, the models were ugly, the sets looked stupid, the plot was paper thin, and the characters were completely pedantic.  With the exception of the blonde chick taking off her clothes, there is not one frame I care to remember.  Needless to say, I have distractions at home to keep me entertained while I have crap like this running on my computer.
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