Topic: Heinlien was right. Again.  (Read 3938 times)

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Offline Nemesis

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Heinlien was right. Again.
« on: July 04, 2010, 08:24:09 am »
In Methuselah's Children he concieved of the idea of breeding humans for longevity. 

The first article shows how genes can be concentrated in a specific group by selective breeding (in this case those without the selected genes don't reproduce as well).  The second article shows that there are indeed genes that select for longevity.  His system in the novel would work - in time.

Link to 1st article

Quote
The genome-wide comparison, performed by evolutionary biologists at the University of California, Berkeley, uncovered more than 30 genes with DNA mutations that have become more prevalent in Tibetans than Han Chinese, nearly half of which are related to how the body uses oxygen. One mutation in particular spread from fewer than 10 percent of the Han Chinese to nearly 90 percent of all Tibetans.


Link to 2nd article

Quote
In addition, the team's analysis identified 19 genetic clusters or "genetic signatures" of exceptional longevity that characterized 90 percent of the centenarians studied. The different signatures correlated with differences in the prevalence and age-of-onset of diseases such as dementia and hypertension, and may help identify key subgroups of healthy aging, the authors said.


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Offline Bonk

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Re: Heinlien was right. Again.
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2010, 08:36:55 am »
You got me...

effing exactly. How else will interstellar travel be possible? We need to add to that gravity and atmospheric considerations for both the journey and destination. A humanoid engineered for the target.

This is to be our role. It is why we are here. The Anti-Entropy. The Dark Matter.

There. Crazy enough for ya? ;)

Offline Bonk

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Re: Heinlien was right. Again.
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2010, 08:44:56 am »
Further, here's a theory...:

Maybe that is why our mythology is full of references to lifespans much longer than we have now. See, once a colony is established, it is no longer useful (for a time) for lifetimes to remain so long. Turnover is required to allow the process to repeat.

Boo!  :o :D

Kinda throws evolution out the window, but it is a fun idea. Wait, it might not necessarily throw evolution out the window, but rather define it? Hmmm.

OK. I'll take my wonderful, beautiful and precious insanity and go now.  ;)

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Heinlien was right. Again.
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2010, 08:47:57 am »
Engineering has been proposed many times.  This does show however that given time it could be done by "directed evolution".  Choose people with the right genes, set up a system to cull those without them and put them in a generation ship which moves the environment towards the target over time and you can evolve your colonists to match their future home. 

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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Heinlien was right. Again.
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2010, 08:58:18 am »
Further, here's a theory...:

Maybe that is why our mythology is full of references to lifespans much longer than we have now. See, once a colony is established, it is no longer useful (for a time) for lifetimes to remain so long. Turnover is required to allow the process to repeat.

Boo!  :o :D

Kinda throws evolution out the window, but it is a fun idea. Wait, it might not necessarily throw evolution out the window, but rather define it? Hmmm.

Those mythical lifespans I think are likely based on those writing the story down counting in years while the earlier story creators counted in lunar cycles. 

Actually it works with evolution.  It might modify the pure survival of the fittest and include a little laMarckianism.  Though I haven't seen it written that way I have been seeing little by little evidence published that is (if you look at it right) pro laMarck. 

Example One:

In a single cell experiment a culture was created that could not metabolize a specific food.  It was calculated how long it would take to evolve that ability once the food supply was swapped and how much the population would drop.  The time and drop was less than expected as the genetic change happened outside cell division in mature microbes.

Example Two:

Small mammals kept for reproducing until late in their life cycle over 10 generations doubled their life span.  This has also been observed in the wild where reproduction is delay the life span increases. 

Example Three:

In humans exposure to certain chemicals has been seen to affect the next 2 or 3 generations even though they were not themselves exposed.

Note:  For those who may not remember laMarck proposed that acquired characteristics were inherited.  For example ancient giraffes were always stretching their necks to reach food so their children had slightly longer necks which they stretched and passed onto their children and so forth.
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Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: Heinlien was right. Again.
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2010, 06:24:37 pm »
Anyone ever watch Andromeda?

Are you sure you want to create a race of Nietzscheans?
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Heinlien was right. Again.
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2010, 08:53:36 pm »
Anyone ever watch Andromeda?


I tried to once and found it too annoying.  Not to my taste at all.  I preferred the original pilot it was derived from.

Are you sure you want to create a race of Nietzscheans?


Depends on whether I'm one of them or not ;).
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Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: Heinlien was right. Again.
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2010, 04:18:31 pm »
Anyone ever watch Andromeda?


I tried to once and found it too annoying.  Not to my taste at all.  I preferred the original pilot it was derived from.


And do tell what that was.....

I liked it until the 3-4 season when all the sudden the high guard and all the government was back in place. 

Tyr was lost as a main character also. He was the best reason to watch....
Political Correctness is really Political Censorship

A tax code should exist to procure the funds necessary for the operation of government, not to manipulate human or business behavior.

A nocens dies in loricatus est melior quam a bonus dies procul opus.

A bad peace is even worse than war."  --  Tacitus

"We thought we could resolve the system's problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it" -Claude Castonguay

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Heinlien was right. Again.
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2010, 05:00:31 pm »
And do tell what that was....


Since you are a fan I'm surprised you don't know.  I recognized the character name and the "background" the one time I watched a bit.

Link to IMDB write up
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Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: Heinlien was right. Again.
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2010, 06:24:51 pm »
Oh, wow... memory lapse.... yeah.  I forgot that I did know about that...

The plot was very dissimilar to the one in Genesis II. 

Unless you want to count the pilot episodes where some guy hires the peeps, who eventually join Dylan Hunt in trying to rebuild the Systems Commonwealth, to reclaim the Andromeda Ascendant for the profit.

And even that isn't very close... as it was profiteering, not warmongering that drove the pilot plot.

Also, remember, Roddenberry was dead nearly 10 years when the show came out.  His wife was the driving force behind it and any changes.

Another point is that the show's physics special FXs were much more in line with what the new BSG did than the extreme 'physics' of Star Trek.
Political Correctness is really Political Censorship

A tax code should exist to procure the funds necessary for the operation of government, not to manipulate human or business behavior.

A nocens dies in loricatus est melior quam a bonus dies procul opus.

A bad peace is even worse than war."  --  Tacitus

"We thought we could resolve the system's problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it" -Claude Castonguay

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Heinlien was right. Again.
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2010, 08:16:57 pm »
Oh, wow... memory lapse.... yeah.  I forgot that I did know about that...

The plot was very dissimilar to the one in Genesis II. 


I admit that I don't know much about Andromeda but the shows seem very similar to me.  Basic plot line - travel into a post apocalyptic future and try to rebuild civilization and stop a self declared "Homo Superiour" from enslaving/killing everyone else.

Dylan Hunt placed in suspended animation.  While there civilization collapses.

Dylan Hunt travels through time due to a close brush with a black hole.  During that time civilization collapses.

Dylan Hunt sets out to help rebuild civilization.

Dylan Hunt sets out to help rebuild civilization.

The villains are the Tyranids mutants who consider themselves to be Homo Superiour with a right to rule.

The villains are the Nietzscheans genetically engineered humans who consider themselves to be Homo Superiour with a right to rule.

The Tyranids try and trick Hunt into repairing their nuclear reactor which they need to accelerate their world conquest.

The Nietzscheans?

There are differences. 

In the original Hunt is recovered by "The Pax" (a peaceful scientific civilization) and recruited to work with them. 

In Andromeda he has a super powered starship and recruits others to help him.

There were other attempts at the same plot.  Planet Earth and Strange New World
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Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: Heinlien was right. Again.
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2010, 09:48:16 pm »
Except that you missed the Magog who are the main antagonist of the series and they are driven by another force.

And while some Nietzscheans are hell bent on ruling everything, there were also those who fought for the ideals that Dylan Hunt also pursued.
Political Correctness is really Political Censorship

A tax code should exist to procure the funds necessary for the operation of government, not to manipulate human or business behavior.

A nocens dies in loricatus est melior quam a bonus dies procul opus.

A bad peace is even worse than war."  --  Tacitus

"We thought we could resolve the system's problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it" -Claude Castonguay

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Heinlien was right. Again.
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2010, 03:28:33 pm »
The Magog may have been the major enemy in Andromeda but there is no way of knowing who the major enemy would have been in Genesis II it is possible it was something like the Magog possibly not.  Tyrannids might well have had their "good" individuals like the Nietzscheans if more episodes had been done.

Consider Trek, neither of the original 2 pilots had Klingons or Romulans in them.  The Ferengi weren't in the first episode of TNG (but they were referred to).  Enterprise didn't have Suliban, time travelers, sphere builders or the Xindi.  Genesis II as a pilot left much open to be developed, most of North America and all the rest of the world in fact, room for a "Magog" type or many other enemies.
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Offline Bonk

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Re: Heinlien was right. Again.
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2010, 07:35:15 am »
I enjoyed Andromeda thoroughly. I recall the nietshceians, but  I dunno, engineering the traveller for the journey and destination just makes sense to me. Sci-fi plots aside. Think of it in terms of the number of potential colonisation targets.

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Heinlien was right. Again.
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2014, 07:40:10 pm »
Back to the original topic.

Link

Quote
In two of the studies, giving the blood of young mice to old ones undid age-related impairments in the brain, reversing declines in learning and memory and boosting the creation of new neurons and the ability of the brain to change its structure in response to experience.

The third study found that a protein in the blood of young mice improved the ability of old ones (comparable to a 70-year-old person) to exercise.


In Methuselah's Children one of the first "rejuvenation" systems is replacement of the old blood with young blood (artificially generated not draining the young). 

Heinlien got this one right too.
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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Heinlien was right. Again.
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2014, 06:49:53 am »
point of order on that "Enterprise" mistake above - the Suliban/time travel were in it from the first episode, and the "temporal cold war" was meant to be ongoing part of the series.

As much as I like some of the classic Heinlein, his later stuff drove me away from reading him anymore. Too much creepy incest stuff. Dude was weird...