Topic: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV  (Read 11828 times)

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Offline Nemesis

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Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« on: November 30, 2014, 06:19:07 pm »
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Twenty-two years after the events of Jurassic Park (1993), Isla Nublar now features a fully functioning dinosaur theme park, Jurassic World, as originally envisioned by John Hammond. After 10 years of operation and visitor rates declining, in order to fulfill a corporate mandate, a new attraction is created to re-spark visitor's interest, which backfires horribly.


Trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXiahojLbOw
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2014, 06:31:25 pm »
Saw this the other day, and I am so pumped for this! In fact, I am more excited about this than the new SW movie. The last three just killed the whole franchise for me.

But this movie, this looks like they took Chrichens (sp) work  and added all that much more to it, in a logical and scary fashion.

stephen
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2014, 06:33:48 pm »
Lets hope they added the Dinochicken.  ;)
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2014, 07:13:30 pm »
I think the whole genetically modified hybrid thing sounds stupid.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2014, 08:16:03 pm »
The whole concept is rather stupid. There isn't enough oxygen in our atmosphere to power animals of that size on land anymore. There is a reason that elephants are the largest land animal currently.

Offline knightstorm

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2014, 09:43:13 pm »
No.  The reason mammals never got as large is because there are several limitations inherent in mammals which limit their size.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2014, 10:32:53 pm »
No.  The reason mammals never got as large is because there are several limitations inherent in mammals which limit their size.

Such as? The species has nothing to do with it. The largest animal that ever lived is a mammal.

Offline knightstorm

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2014, 10:39:41 pm »
The way Mammalian bones fit together limits the size of land mammals by reducing the level of cartilage that can fit between joints.  This isn't an issue with whales because the water is supporting their weight.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2014, 10:55:30 pm »
OK, then why are Komodo Dragons the largest legged land reptilian right now?

Offline manitoba1073

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2014, 11:13:06 pm »
OK, then why are Komodo Dragons the largest legged land reptilian right now?
All reptiles continuously grow. The only thing that stops them from getting exceptionally large is limited food.



Offline Corbomite

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2014, 11:21:30 pm »
OK, then why are Komodo Dragons the largest legged land reptilian right now?
All reptiles continuously grow. The only thing that stops them from getting exceptionally large is limited food.

And there was a ton more food 100 million years ago as compared to now?

Offline knightstorm

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2014, 12:23:29 am »
OK, then why are Komodo Dragons the largest legged land reptilian right now?

Because large reptiles would be vulnerable to mammalian predators due to carrier's constraint as well as the less efficient 3 chambered hearts in most extant species.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2014, 09:40:09 am »
That makes about as much sense as a five sided cube. Nothing messes with a Komodo Dragon except another Dragon. With their poisionous bite, other predators would soon learn to stay well away from them because the benefits of killing one would be soon eclipsed by the death of the attacker. Big cats have been seen killing crocodiles, but crocs have certain vulnerabilities that can be exploited by a smart cat.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2014, 11:18:23 am »
Consider this:

Insects, crocodilians, turtles, sharks and snakes all predated or coexisted with dinosaurs. None of these species' biophysiology has changed significantly since that time and they are bound under the same laws of physics and limitations of available resources as their ancestors, yet all have examples of enormous specimens in the fossil record. After the asteroid hit and the food chain collapsed, the extinction of the larger forms was a given, but we have had 65 million years of recovery, yet none of these species has ever returned to that size or proportion. The largest predator on the planet currently is a mammal, the sperm whale, and look what it has to go through to get its prefered prey. It is only able to do this through extreme adaptation and the ability to exist from its fat stores in lean times, something that many other species can't do. If it were easy there would be more species that were that large on land and in the sea. None of the other largest animals on the planet currently are predators, even the largest shark. The largest animals 100 million years ago weren't predators either. The largest land mammal we know of that ever lived was at least twice the size of an elephant (based on available evidence) and where are examples of that size around now? Oxygen plays the greatest role in the ability for animals to grow large and proliferate, not the other factors that have been stated. None of those other factors has changed as they are universal laws that affect all life on all levels and in any era.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2014, 02:54:20 pm »
I've always wondered why these creatures haven't return to their original sizes and thank goodness they haven't because imagine a mosquito returning to prehistoric size  :screwloose: I'd be terrorfied.


Here you go Adam  ;):

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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2014, 02:58:03 pm »
That makes about as much sense as a five sided cube. Nothing messes with a Komodo Dragon except another Dragon. With their poisionous bite, other predators would soon learn to stay well away from them because the benefits of killing one would be soon eclipsed by the death of the attacker. Big cats have been seen killing crocodiles, but crocs have certain vulnerabilities that can be exploited by a smart cat.

Lizards are only capable of short bursts of speed, and exhaust very quickly.  I'd consider that a hugely exploitable weakness, and its considered one of the reasons for the ascendancy of the dinosaurs in the first place.  Komodos don't share their island with any other large predators which is why they were able to grow as big as they are.

Consider this:

Insects, crocodilians, turtles, sharks and snakes all predated or coexisted with dinosaurs. None of these species' biophysiology has changed significantly since that time and they are bound under the same laws of physics and limitations of available resources as their ancestors, yet all have examples of enormous specimens in the fossil record.

Mammals shared the world with the dinosaurs for much of their reign, yet remained relatively small until the dinosaurs went extinct.  The main reason for this was because the prevalence of the dinosaurs was blocking the mammals from moving into other niches in the food chain.  Would it be so surprising if mammals were affecting other animals the same way.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 05:42:57 pm by knightstorm »

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2014, 03:21:20 pm »
My point is that there are other large reptiles on the mainlands and they do just fine being the top predator in their environments competing with large predatory mammals.

There is good evidence to support the theory that dinosaurs were on the way out before the asteroid hit. There is no way to know what mammals could have achieved without the disaster.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 05:04:29 pm by Corbomite »

Offline Sirgod

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2014, 08:44:26 pm »
I think also, if we look at the mammals around at the time of the T-rex, or even further back like say the stegosaurus, they had the benefit of being mouse sized.  I'd have to dig through some old books or do a google search, but I don't think larger mammal species like the mammoth or the Sloth, where around until shortly before the last ice age. (I could be wrong here guys, wouldn't be the first time.)

I tell yeah, Take a Grizzly and a T-rex and scale them to size, and it would be one hell of a fight to watch though. but then that takes us all back to the original premise that I see in this discussion, which would be, "How much suspension of belief , do we allow from film to film?"

anyways, just my 2 cents gentlemen.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2014, 07:01:20 pm »
Back when Jurassic Park 2 had just been announced a friend asked me what I thought of the accuracy of the dinosaurs in the first movie.  After a little thought I told him the dinosaurs should have been fluffy.  Either covered with feathers or the precursors of feathers.  He called me crazy.  A few weeks later I showed him a Scientific American magazine with feathered dinosaurs on the cover.  So where are the feathers on these dinosaurs?

Don't forget that dinosaurs != reptiles.  The dinosaurs you see every day are warm blooded and commonly called birds. 

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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2014, 07:33:14 pm »
I don't know if I would consider birds to be dinosaurs, but dinosaurs were definitely closer to birds than they were to reptiles.  In addition to the fact that they had feathers, a while back they were able to extract soft tissue from a T-Rex bone, and found that the proteins were most similar to those found in birds.  As for accuracy, there's no way a T-Rex could have moved as fast as the one from the films.  Don't get me started on Dilophosaurus.  As for the raptors, I'll give them a pass on the feather thing because that hadn't been discovered yet, but they're really based on Deinonychus.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2014, 07:47:32 pm »
I saw a study once that said a T-Rex could reach up to 40mph based on computer models of its structure.

Offline knightstorm

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2014, 08:00:13 pm »
I read that an adult was limited to a much slower speed, and it was dangerous for them to run at full speed because they were so top heavy that if they fell while running it could kill them.  Juveniles seem to have been significantly faster which lends credence to the theory that they were pack hunters with the juveniles scaring up the herds and driving them into the adult's jaws.

Offline knightstorm

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2014, 05:17:06 pm »

I tell yeah, Take a Grizzly and a T-rex and scale them to size, and it would be one hell of a fight to watch though. but then that takes us all back to the original premise that I see in this discussion, which would be, "How much suspension of belief , do we allow from film to film?"

anyways, just my 2 cents gentlemen.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGt9GtDwdKY

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2014, 04:34:24 pm »
According to this site

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Tyrannosaurus (13,230 pounds, 6,000 kg)—17.9 mph (8 m/s)
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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2015, 12:03:37 pm »
Maybe to just put a bookend on this thread, I did see this on vacation with the family. To give a spoiler-free review:

"Eh."

It wasn't bad bad (as in Transformers or Armageddon)... and if your expectations are low you'll survive. It certainly wasn't great, but a lot of people I know have said they enjoyed it.  I'll give some credit where credit is due; the raptor training scenes are less ridiculous as the trailer makes them (based on my experiences with exotic animal handlers). Plus, along the lines with some of the comments in this thread, at one point a character fully acknowledges that these dinosaurs are NOT real dinosuars but guesses made in a lab, something that was more prominent in  Chrichton's book, IIRC.

Heard something funny right after it came out:
"A corporate executive, in an attempt to increase profits, creates a questionable mix of past successes in order to satisfy audiences, and when it escapes..."
        ..... is both a description of the plot, and of how the movie came to be.

Offline knightstorm

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2015, 01:16:47 pm »
It looked like there were some small nods to the original Walking With Dinosaurs documentary and early Primeval which I liked, but nothing could redeem the film from the idiocy of the I-Rex concept.

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2015, 09:05:13 pm »
Dinosaurs did have some of the characteristics of birds in there lungs and lighter bones.  They seem to have been substantially lighter than mammals of comparable size as well.  T-Rex also spent a good part of its life a great deal smaller than the full adult, it seems to have under gone a 2 year growth spurt at the end of adolescence going from closer to the movie raptor size to the size we traditionally see in museums.

As to comparing them to mammals better than modern day comparisons compare them to the titanotheres before modern man showed on the scene. 
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2015, 10:33:49 pm »
I recently saw an interesting documentary about how many of the species we think we know about are going to be realized as calf and adolescent dinosaurs of the adults we are sure about. They have found that many dinosaurs went through significant changes in features throughout their lives and many of the "species" we know about are not true species all.

As far as the bird thing goes - that might possibly be true of theropods and ornithopods, but I haven't seen anything concerning that and sauropods.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 10:49:57 pm by Corbomite »

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2015, 05:17:35 am »
As far as the bird thing goes - that might possibly be true of theropods and ornithopods, but I haven't seen anything concerning that and sauropods.


Link  to full article

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A large opening found in the ischium, which opens into a large air chamber, supports the theory that these dinosaurs had abdominal air sacs— strong evidence for an avian-like respiratory system.

As with birds, it appears the bones of Tataouinea were hollow, making it light weight for its estimated 14 metre long body.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2015, 08:46:06 am »
Interesting. I'd missed that somehow. I'd only seen reports for two leggers so far. Well it would seem that dinosaurs didn't have avian respiratory systems; birds have saurian respiratory systems. It would also seem that hollow bones weren't originally designed to allow flight after the evolution of feathers, but that both were evolved for other purposes and became the flight worthy characteristics that we know today. This would help explain some of the sizes that are encountered as a more efficient respiratory system would be required for them. I wonder if this will force them to reclassify pterosaurs as actual dinosaurs now. Have you seen any reports of hollow bones in marine reptiles?

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Jurassic World aka Jurassic Park IV
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2015, 10:49:56 am »
Have you seen any reports of hollow bones in marine reptiles?

Not yet.  Seems they don't even have the ancestors of the ichthyosaurs figured out.
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