Topic: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D  (Read 4919 times)

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Offline Sirgod

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here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« on: October 20, 2015, 11:51:20 am »
 a little background here, and of course an invite to you, and others who might be interested.

A group of us are gonna start up next month using Fantasy Grounds, to get an old school AD&D game together... and so I went digging through my crap, and came across this.

---------------- From Dragon 127, pg. 3
Tucker's kobolds

This month's editorial is about Tucker's kobolds. We get letters on occasion asking for advice on creating high-level AD&D® game adventures, and Tucker's kobolds seem to fit the bill.

Many high-level characters have little to do because they're not challenged. They yawn at tarrasques and must be forcibly kept awake when a lich appears. The DMs involved don't know what to do, so they stop dealing with the problem and the characters go into Character Limbo. Getting to high level is hard, but doing anything once you get there is worse.

One of the key problems in adventure design lies in creating opponents who can challenge powerful characters. Singular monsters like tarrasques and liches are easy to gang up on; the party can concentrate its firepower on the target until the target falls down dead and wiggles its little feet in the air. Designing monsters more powerful than a tarrasque is self-defeating; if the group kills your super-monster, what will you do next—send in its mother? That didn't work on Beowulf, and it probably won't work here.

Worse yet, singular supermonsters rarely have to think. They just use their trusty, predictable claw/claw/bite. This shouldn't be the measure of a campaign. These games fall apart because there's no challenge to them, no mental stimulation - no danger.

In all the games that I've seen, the worst, most horrible, most awful beyond-comparison opponents ever seen were often weaker than the characters who fought them. They were simply well-armed and intelligent beings who were played by the DM to be utterly ruthless and clever. Tucker's kobolds were like that.

Tucker ran an incredibly dangerous dungeon in the days I was stationed at Ft. Bragg, N.C. This dungeon had corridors that changed all of your donkeys into huge flaming demons or dropped the whole party into acid baths, but the demons were wienies compared to the kobolds on Level One. These kobolds were just regular kobolds, with 1-4 hp and all that, but they were mean. When I say they were mean, I mean they were bad, Jim. They graduated magna cum laude from the Sauron Institute for the Criminally Vicious.

When I joined the gaming group, some of the PCs had already met Tucker's kobolds, and they were not eager to repeat the experience. The party leader went over the penciled map of the dungeon and tried to find ways to avoid the little critters, but it was not possible. The group resigned itself to making a run for it through Level One to get to the elevators, where we could go down to Level Ten and fight "okay" monsters like huge flaming demons.

It didn't work. The kobolds caught us about 60' into the dungeon and locked the door behind us and barred it. Then they set the corridor on fire, while we were still in it.

"NOOOOOO!!!" screamed the party leader. "It's THEM! Run!!!"

Thus encouraged, our party scrambled down a side passage, only to be ambushed by more kobolds firing with light crossbows through murder holes in the walls and ceilings. Kobolds with metal armor and shields flung Molotov cocktails at us from the other sides of huge piles of flaming debris, which other kobolds pushed ahead of their formation using long metal poles like broomsticks. There was no mistake about it. These kobolds were bad.

We turned to our group leader for advice.

"AAAAAAGH!!!" he cried, hands clasped over his face to shut out the tactical situation.

We abandoned most of our carried items and donkeys to speed our flight toward the elevators, but we were cut off by kobold snipers who could split-move and fire, ducking back behind stones and corners after launching steel-tipped bolts and arrows, javelins, hand axes, and more flaming oil bottles. We ran into an unexplored section of Level One, taking damage all the time. It was then we discovered that these kobolds had honeycombed the first level with small tunnels to speed their movements. Kobold commandos were everywhere. All of our hirelings died. Most of our henchmen followed. We were next.

I recall we had a 12th-level magic user with us, and we asked him to throw a spell or something. "Blast 'em!" we yelled as we ran. "Fireball 'em! Get those little @#+$%*&!!"

"What, in these narrow corridors? " he yelled back. "You want I should burn us all up instead of them?"

Our panicked flight suddenly took us to a dead-end corridor, where a giant air shaft dropped straight down into unspeakable darkness, far past Level Ten. Here we hastily pounded spikes into the floors and walls, flung ropes over the ledge, and climbed straight down into that unspeakable darkness, because anything we met down there was sure to be better than those kobolds.

We escaped, met some huge flaming demons on Level Ten, and even managed to kill one after about an hour of combat and the lives of half the group. We felt pretty good — but the group leader could not be cheered up.

"We still have to go out the way we came in," he said as he gloomily prepared to divide up the treasure.

Tucker's kobolds were the worst things we could imagine. They ate all our donkeys and took our treasure and did everything they could to make us miserable, but they had style and brains and tenacity and courage. We respected them and loved them, sort of, because they were never boring.

If kobolds could do this to a group of PCs from 6th to 12th level, picture what a few orcs and some low level NPCs could do to a 12th-16th level group, or a gang of mid-level NPCs and monsters to groups of up to 20th level. Then give it a try. Sometimes, it's the little things—used well—that count.

Roger E. Moore

-----------

Anyways, if any one is interested, let me know. Now I will tell ya, I'll be putting together a small face book group, just so we can manage time slots. and the idea I have will easily allow for us all to switch in and out at any time, so there will be no pressure to have to make each group. the reason why, Is believe it or not,  I do have a few friends from school, and other places that love the old games as much as I do. This way, I can do huge groups or small groups, all the while we will be learning how to use the new virtual table top.

All that being said, I would be remiss in my duties as DM, if I didn't ask, if any one wants to be a co-DM just in the case of emergencies, or If we wind up with a party of 20+ peeps.

Hope you enjoy that though Nem. I know I love it as much now as I did back then, and we have often referred to them in the past. <snickers> Now people will know what the hell we are talking about.

"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline Corbomite

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Re: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2015, 12:25:42 pm »
I always said that levels 3-10 were the most fun. After that it either became boring to too fantastic to be relatable. I'd say more about the actual encounter, but it might be a little critical.  ;)

I'd be interested if you are really using the old rules. I have no books past the original Dungeoneer's and Wilderness Survival Guides, which I believe are all still first edition AD&D and is the style I prefer to play. I may not want to DM, but if you need help designing quests and traps, my group used to groan just about as much as the players in your story did at my bumps in the road. My philosophy is that fighting it out may be just fine, but I'd give more EXP if you find your way around a large obstacle using your head and got everyone out alive and well.

Offline Sirgod

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Re: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2015, 12:50:08 pm »
I'm a huge fan of the 1st edition rule set, and slightly with the 2nd. I do have the 3rds books, but am just now reading through them.

If and this is a huge if, I can enable the game to allow for the 1st edition ruleset, that is what I'll use. I know that it can be manipulated, as they have added all kinds of rule sets to the engine. ie. Shadowrun, Cthlulu, etc. etc.

All the same, I have almost, all of the old stuff again. (I lost most of it decades ago when my second wife and I divorced. ) Hehe, side note, today is our 20th anniversary with Denny.

anyways, It may be an easy fix, or it may be one that we have to slowly adapt, as I fudge the engine and create the ruleset.

I'll know more once I get something beyond the demo. Like I said, next month, but I figure 10 bucks for it, if need be I might be able to squeeze out a few bucks more to get some of the addons, but it will be a little bit here, and a little bit there.

I mean c'mon, we have to have at least one psionic or bard from the 1st edition right brother?
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline Corbomite

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Re: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2015, 01:16:05 pm »
I'm kind of ambivalent about psionics. They never really fit the backdrop IMO, but that being said, I did create a futuristic type campaign that replaced all magic with them and it played just fine.

Bards, IIRC, were awesome if they managed to survive long enough to get anywhere. Dividing EXP between three classes is slow work compared to a single class fighter in the same group.

Offline Javora

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Re: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2015, 07:34:55 pm »
Have you all looked at this:  https://swordcoast.com/

This might be a better option for people looking to play D&D assuming that peoples computers can handle it.  Big thanks to Scorpio for the heads up on this one from the other place.  Can't remember what his handle is here.

Offline Sirgod

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Re: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2015, 09:54:22 pm »
Ahh thanks Javora, I hadn't seen that one brother. I'll check it out also.
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline Javora

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Re: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2015, 06:37:16 pm »

Offline Sirgod

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Re: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2015, 12:00:47 am »
Thanks man, I'll give them a look see.

@Corbo, Looks like the rule set changing is done with .LUA, which I haven't played with much since making my own addons for wow. That being said, it is not insurmountable.  just will take some time.

Anywho, we got some bucks back tonight, so I got the ultimate (10.00 licence) for the game, and will be starting to write the first part of the campaign this week. Figure it'll take me a while to get used to the tool set, and learn the in's and outs, and then it will be game time!
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline Corbomite

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Re: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2015, 08:50:48 am »
Cool Stephen. I watched a bit of the first video before I got called away. I think it said you can only have a party of four or less, which seems small, but bandwidth and all that junk. I was under the impression you wanted larger groups. Also, I'm not really a fan of that offset perspective.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I thought you wanted a virtual table top, not a video game. Since I'm not sure what that other program you were describing looks like or does, some clarification would be nice.

Offline Sirgod

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Re: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2015, 09:52:44 am »
Ahh, I see the problem. No man, those video's where from Javora brother.

Let me get ya a video for the virtual table top...

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/home/    <---- main link.

And when it comes up, you can see the video's here...

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki

Like this one.

http://www.fantasygrounds.com/filelibrary/tutorial/4EExamplePlay.wmv

Sorry about the misunderstanding on my part here. I'm looking at Javora's videos right now actually. So I can't comment on them just yet.
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline Corbomite

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Re: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2015, 10:24:10 am »
OK, I watched a few minutes of the tutorial and that is what I thought you meant by a VT. So basically it is a virtual DM Screen and figure map with dice all can see (when needed) and we can communicate through text or voice comms like we were playing old school at your house or the like? Does the DM always have to roll the dice for the players or do they get to roll their own? Looks cool though if it is as customizable as we hope.

Offline Sirgod

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Re: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2015, 12:50:10 pm »
That is it exactly bro.!

and yeah, the players roll their own dice.

I did find the 2nd edition rule set for the engine, which is outstanding, the big step for me next, is simply converting over my campaign stuff. Ie. the rule stuff is there, but no libraries, like monsters, NPC's adventures, modules. so all that will be done by scratch.

For example, we use what is called Tokens that represent our toons , npcs, and monsters. Using that rule set, I'll have to make brand new Tokens for us to use. Luckily, my Son Nathan has a copy of Corel Draw X8 or something, so that will work for me. (another thing I haven't messed with in 20 years LOL)

Heh, I've been bugging the hell out of my boy. He has got a printer/scanner/copier coming to us, a cheap one from wally world, just so I can scan in my old AD&D crap, and then convert the images to .png or .jpg for maps etc.

My grandson ran off with my head set, so he got us a new cheap one coming in from amazon.

The cool thing is, I had been hording cash, as I knew our tags and taxes was due this month. Hit the tag agency, and man, so much cheaper than last year. I had put aside about 100 bucks, and it was only 23.51. So I do have a tiny amount to play around with should I need to get anything else.

This is like the first thing I have spent money on though, since the wife had that last battle with cancer at the beginning of this year. LOL, and I still feel guilty spending money on myself, but damnit, I've wanted to get back into this for so long now.
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline Corbomite

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Re: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2015, 12:57:51 pm »
I don't have any 2nd edition stuff. I did read through it once... long ago...

Offline Vipre

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Re: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2015, 09:19:19 pm »
I don't have any 2nd edition stuff. I did read through it once... long ago...


Everything you'd need online reference for 2E right here; Purple Worm if you're interested.
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2015, 10:15:32 pm »
Dude! You rock Vipre!  very nice site.
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline Vipre

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Re: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2015, 10:37:40 pm »
Of course I do, it's how I warm up each morning.
Lapsed Pastafarian  
"Parmesan be upon Him"

"Dear God,
   If aliens are real please let them know that I'm formally requesting asylum from the freakshow that is humanity."

Offline Sirgod

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Re: here ya Go Nemesis, and others AD&D
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2015, 07:55:28 am »
ROFL! And so Damn Modest also!
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War