Topic: Star Wars: The Force Awakens  (Read 5781 times)

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Offline TAnimaL

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Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« on: December 18, 2015, 01:12:54 pm »
I was just wondering if anyone here had any interest in discussing this movie.

I just saw it, and a completely spoiler-free summation is: good. Good Star Wars, certainly better than Eps. 1-3 and I think better than 6. It's a fairly good movie, although I'm still ruminating on that, because it's such a "Star Wars" movie it's hard to separate that in a review. If you saw any of the trailers, they all "fit," as in, there wasn't anything really misleading about what you saw in them.

It's easy to hate on JJ because of what he did to our Trek, but fair's fair, he's a decent filmmaker. Nice practical FX, good compositions (after the prequels, thank gods for some closeups, rack focus, and decent editing), and, unlike Lucas, he let the actors act.

And you know what brought a tear to my eye? At the very end of the credits - "Shot on Kodak film".  Film, you punk kids. Him and Taratino, keeping it real.

Offline Tulwar

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2015, 03:48:52 pm »
The ubercute droid and the bad guy's 1950's chrome grill already turn me off.  We all know that it's in keeping with the spirit of the majority of SW films: a feature length toy commercial.

ps Can't wait for Star Wars Episode VIII: The Force Rolls Over and Goes Back to Sleep.
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Offline d4v1ks

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2015, 12:04:18 pm »
I saw the movie today.
I really like it.
Of course it has flaws.
But was cool.
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Offline Klingon Fanatic

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2015, 07:05:53 pm »
I just saw it tonight.

I left feeling like I had been on the Star Wars ride at Disney World...

It was a lot of fun but  left you wanting more explanation of things.

Hence the sequels.
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Offline Vipre

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2015, 12:29:37 am »
"Hence the sequels"...and tie-in books...and comics...and shampoo...


Just got back an hour ago from a 9pm showing.

I'd give it an A- out of the gate but think that would improve after a second viewing, without everyone cheering/clapping over dialog and taking me "out of focus". Only a couple sequences/scenes felt hammy, another dragged out the "joke" a handful of seconds too long, and one went from feeling pretty cool to way over the top.

Some are criticizing JJ for them but I liked the nods/callbacks to the previous films, with one exception that felt really tacked on. Can't exactly call them subtle though.

VII is the SW film I had hoped I'd see in '99.

Also where was this effort during "Into Darkness"
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Offline Javora

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2015, 03:36:52 pm »
Just came back from seeing the movie myself.  I agree with just about everything Vipre said.  I think I see the problem with the new Star Trek movies now after seeing this movie.  First Disney spent a lot more time and money on writing and production of this movie, that much was obvious.  But more importantly Disney didn't try to reinvent the wheel by casting a new Luke, Leia, Han etc.  Star Wars focused on new characters who did an excellent job with their roles.  No matter how good an actor is, when you recast a character with a new actor people are going to make comparisons which brings negativity.    Star Trek has the ability to be just as good as Star Wars, it all comes down to how much blood, sweet, tears, and more importantly money Paramount wants to put into the production... and new characters.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2016, 02:24:58 pm »
Hmmm, seller's remorse maybe?

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-35209648

To be fair the article is about Lucas retracting the "white slavers" comment (which I'm sure he is legally bound to do under the can't do harm clause of his sale contract), but just... wow. I'm actually finding myself agreeing with George Lucas about Star Wars. I never thought that would happen.

Quote
In the hour-long interview, broadcast in the US on Christmas Day, Lucas appeared to question Disney's choice of direction with the new film.

"They wanted to do a retro movie. I don't like that," he said.

"Every movie, I work very hard to make them completely different, with different planets, with different spaceships, make it new."

He added: "They weren't that keen to have me involved anyway, but if I get in there, I'm just going to cause trouble, because they're not going to do what I want them to do. And I don't have the control to do that any more."

"When you break up with somebody... You have to put it behind you and it's a very, very, very hard thing to do," Lucas told Rose.

"These are my kids... All the Star Wars films. I loved them, I created them, I'm very intimately involved in them. I sold them to the white slavers that take these things."


Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2016, 03:48:58 pm »
I enjoyed it at the time, but having thought a bit about it, yeah it beats the crap out of the prequels, but it should have been a better story line for the new darth vader like villain. More on that if we do a spoilers thread. So iam am ranking it behind 4-6.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2016, 04:07:29 pm »
It should have been a better storyline period. We now have three movies with basically the same plot; two of them in a row. There are other things, but if we are still not going to get specific it can wait. I liked the movie overall, well shot, no truly cringe-worthy acting or dialog and well paced. I didn't really think the music was all that compelling for a SW movie. None of it really stood out for me. I guess another viewing will let me listen better later. And I was right, the cold open w/o the 20th Century Fox fanfare seemed wrong. One other thing, was the "A long time ago..." lead up there? I honestly can't remember.

Offline Lieutenant_Q

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2016, 09:47:47 pm »
A friend of mine commented that it looked like it was a stage play rather than a movie.  The main actors never have their back to the camera, unless it is done intentionally.  There is NEVER anyone between the main actors and the camera (minus an occasional OTHER main actor)  The only time that this may have been broken, and I don't remember the scene that well, is the moment that Rey and Fin first meet.  Thinking back to the Star Trek movies, it's pretty much the same thing.  JJ isn't directing a movie, he's directing plays.

Also, yes, the A Long Time ago, in a Galaxy Far far away...  was on the screen.  And I did miss the 20th Century Fox, the opening just didn't sound right without it.

One last quibble, I really didn't like the absence of the Imperial March... There were plenty of opportunities for it, and you only hear it one, when you see Vader's crispy helmet.
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Offline ObsidianShiar

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2016, 02:24:38 am »
JJ isn't directing a movie, he's directing plays.
I really don't see why everyone hates JJ so much as a director. The Force Awakens is a great film to be 100% (or more) frank. His old series, Fringe, while I didn't watch much of it, has one of the most intriguing premises in a sci-fi series since the X-Files. While he threw the old Star Trek lore through the nearest airlock, he made two films that had good acting (don't blame Beyond on him, blame the Furious 5 thug).


This is more of a Star Wars film than the prequels were (well, not like it's hard to do that) and is a complete back-to-roots formula done right. I can see he even tried hard not to repeat Lucas' mistakes and took it *very* easy on the CGI. Respect for that alone.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2016, 03:11:09 am »
The Force Awakens is a great film to be 100% (or more) frank.

It was entertaining, but also quite derivative of its own lore, which in itself is derivative. Great is too strong an adjective IMO. It was a good installment, if you like watching the same plot over and over again.

Offline EschelonOfJudgemnt

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2016, 08:29:49 am »
I'm with George Lucas on this one.  While I didn't enjoy Episode III at all, the Force Awakens is a story set in the Star Wars universe, not the story George was trying to continue to tell.  It's someone else playing in George's sandbox, and based on what I've read, it comes across as just that.  I may see it when it comes to DVD...

I just wish George and the other writers had put more thought into the script of Episode III.  Going in, we KNEW what was going to happen with Anakin, and they did absolutely nothing to make us think it might turn out any other way.  Hence, despite the spectacular backdrops and such in III, yeah I left that movie very disappointed.

That being said, Rogue One does very much intrigue me.  Apparently, that'll  cover the backstory that leads up to Episode IV (i.e. stealing the Death Star plans).  The small snippet I saw this morning looked interesting.

JJ isn't directing a movie, he's directing plays.
I really don't see why everyone hates JJ so much as a director. (snip). While he threw the old Star Trek lore through the nearest airlock, he made two films that had good acting (don't blame Beyond on him, blame the Furious 5 thug).

It's that very lore that has all so many fans so interested in Trek.  I doubt that many people will be pursuing careers in NASA or SpaceX based on being inspired by ST 2009 or Into Darkness, because JJ has absolutely no respect for the science behind the story.
There have been MANY  that have cited the original Star Trek series, or TNG as a major influence as to why they decided on Space Sciences and Engineering.

If you've ever looked at the cutaway views of the TMP Enterprise, you really begin to appreciate why the warp core is set up the way it is.  There IS logic behind why the intermix chamber is where it is.  By comparison, JJ tried passing off a beer factory as the Enterprise's engineering section...

You CAN have both in a good story.  AND THAT is why I despise JJ's version so much.  He paid lip service to the lore, instead of giving it the respect it deserves.

That and JJ loves pulling rabbits out of hats in his version of storytelling, instead of thinking things through and writing a truly in depth script.  Sure it makes for flashy storytelling, but it gets annoying after awhile.  And it has no place in Trek, based on what most of the hardcore trekkies have been saying in recent years.  Thank god he's gone.




Offline Brush Wolf

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2016, 10:17:09 am »
Hmmm, seller's remorse maybe?

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-35209648

To be fair the article is about Lucas retracting the "white slavers" comment (which I'm sure he is legally bound to do under the can't do harm clause of his sale contract), but just... wow. I'm actually finding myself agreeing with George Lucas about Star Wars. I never thought that would happen.

Quote
In the hour-long interview, broadcast in the US on Christmas Day, Lucas appeared to question Disney's choice of direction with the new film.

"They wanted to do a retro movie. I don't like that," he said.

"Every movie, I work very hard to make them completely different, with different planets, with different spaceships, make it new."

He added: "They weren't that keen to have me involved anyway, but if I get in there, I'm just going to cause trouble, because they're not going to do what I want them to do. And I don't have the control to do that any more."

"When you break up with somebody... You have to put it behind you and it's a very, very, very hard thing to do," Lucas told Rose.

"These are my kids... All the Star Wars films. I loved them, I created them, I'm very intimately involved in them. I sold them to the white slavers that take these things."




The reason this Star Wars was not what Lucas wanted is he ran off the rails with really stupid ideas in the three prequels and still has them. Too bad there was no one around to Gibbs Slap him for being so stupid.
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Offline Tulwar

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2016, 08:01:35 am »
Since my sister-in-brother wouldn't go, my brother roped me into going.  I actually thought this was going to be good, but no.  It really makes me appreciate the work of George Lucas.  There was no young male hero in the film.  The black guy was doing a typical black man's Hollywood role: a boob with his heart in the right place.  The girl, What's Her Name, was the only real hero.

The musical score was not worked in well.  The villain, What's His Name, wasn't even remotely interesting.  There was no sense of urgency to destroying the new version of the Death Star.  It was all rather bland.

I also made the mistake of watching it in 3-D.  Big mistake.  Perhaps, seeing the spaceships as 1/72 scale models detracted from the drama.  Actors in the foreground looked like cardboard cutouts.  Maybe, the film would have been more compelling in 2-D.

If you really have the money to burn, you won't get bored for the time you spend watching it, but it won't fire your imagination, either.
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Offline Tulwar

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2016, 08:21:08 am »
With reviews like this I'm glad I'm waiting. I'll just wait and watch at home. No need to rush. That's what's good about being an adult. We gain patience. 15 years ago I would have waited on line like a lunatic on opening night. Not any mooooore. Lol


Adam

Not really, you've had 15 years of getting burned.  It's more aversion than patience.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2016, 11:29:19 am »
There was no young male hero in the film.  The black guy was doing a typical black man's Hollywood role: a boob with his heart in the right place.  The girl, What's Her Name, was the only real hero.


To be fair, Luke was also a clueless boob with his heart in the right place. Finn freaked out in his first battle and spent the rest of the movie running until he decided to go rescue Rey. My jury will be out on Finn until the next installment. If he acts the same I'll agree with you. I think Poe Dameron (the X-Wing pilot) was supposed to fill the role of young male hero in this one. I guess he didn't do it for you.


Quote
The musical score was not worked in well.


OK, I guess I'm not the only one who sensed that. JW seemed bored with the whole thing.


Quote
The villain, What's His Name, wasn't even remotely interesting.


Yes, Kylo Ren is weaksauce to the extreme. Who thought a whiny emo millennial with daddy and  grandaddy issues would be an interesting and dread inducing opponent? What, your pops didn't buy you a PlayStation as a kid and now you feel you have to kill him to prove yourself to a cardboard cutout "master villain"? Ren got beaten by a girl with no training whatsoever. Darth Sidious would have killed that wimp out of embarrassment to the Sith order.


Quote
I also made the mistake of watching it in 3-D.  Big mistake.  Perhaps, seeing the spaceships as 1/72 scale models detracted from the drama.  Actors in the foreground looked like cardboard cutouts.  Maybe, the film would have been more compelling in 2-D.

If you really have the money to burn, you won't get bored for the time you spend watching it, but it won't fire your imagination, either.


I went to a $5 2D matinee. It was worth that much to see on a big screen.

Offline Tulwar

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2016, 01:17:04 pm »
There was no young male hero in the film.  The black guy was doing a typical black man's Hollywood role: a boob with his heart in the right place.  The girl, What's Her Name, was the only real hero.


To be fair, Luke was also a clueless boob with his heart in the right place. Finn freaked out in his first battle and spent the rest of the movie running until he decided to go rescue Rey. My jury will be out on Finn until the next installment. If he acts the same I'll agree with you. I think Poe Dameron (the X-Wing pilot) was supposed to fill the role of young male hero in this one. I guess he didn't do it for you.


Quote

How many frames did we see of Poe?  It's not like they showed enough of him for anybody to care about him.  Finn, on the other hand, we're made to care about, but he doesn't display exceptional prowess in anything.  That is, unless you count the fact he suddenly gets crazy light saber skills when fighting the main bad guy.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2016, 02:29:19 pm »
Oh, you'll get no disagreement from me there. Poe was barely on the screen. And that whole ending was just "Mmmmmmm... yeah."

Offline Vipre

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2016, 08:54:44 pm »
There was no young male hero in the film.

So?

Is this a generational thing?
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Offline Tulwar

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2016, 11:07:01 pm »
An action/adventure film aimed at the young should always have a young male hero.  The beauty of the original SW was that that there wasn't just one hero.  The princess was no shrinking violet, either.

In this piece of crap, all we get it a Mary Sue.  Yes, there's already a derogatory term for the kind of heroine we get in SW7.  The term fits perfectly.  Look it up.

Harrison Ford was great in the first 3 movies, but he didn't belong in this.  Action/adventure heroes shouldn't be old men.  It's not natural.  Ask any 50 year old if he's up to a game of football, and you'll get the picture.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2016, 03:35:24 am »
In this piece of crap, all we get it a Mary Sue.


I didn't have a problem with just about anything Rey did. After all she is a scavenger living on a harsh planet. Survival skills would seem to be a necessary good idea. I didn't mind her getting in touch with the Force and having an awakening to the greater picture either. What I did mind was her somehow knowing how to use a very advanced Jedi skill that takes discipline and practice (and doesn't always work even for a Jedi Master) on Daniel Craig (yes, he was that stormtrooper!) after just admitting barely an hour of screen time before that they thought all of that stuff was just legends and fairytales. Think about it: There hasn't been a real Jedi presence in the galaxy for about fifty-five years. Luke was an anomaly that most people probably never knew about. They probably heard of him as a Rebel hero, but the whole Jedi thing seems like it was kept pretty quiet. How the hell did Rey even know what that was, let alone that it was possible? It completely destroys Yoda's admonition that only the most serious and disciplined mind can become a true Jedi. Shortcuts are for the Sith (and millennials  ::)). They should have just jacked her into the Matrix. At least her sudden Jedi badassness would have been more believable.

Offline Tulwar

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2016, 05:35:14 am »
That's funny.  You start out saying you don't have a problem with our Mary Sue, but when you start to think about it, you realize that she's too much.  The old Star Was was an ensemble.  Now, we have the whole universe on one girl's shoulders.  Everybody is just there to support her.

There was a feminist take on this that went two directions.  1.) A woman can do anything a man can do, only better.  2.) Women are only worthy if they are really good at performing traditional male roles.  The first is demeaning to men.  The second demeans women.  Pick your poison.
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Offline Javora

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2016, 09:04:33 am »
I also had a problem with the mind trick, however Kylo had just had for a lack of better term a mind-meld with Rey not long before.  Thinking more on that, it was probably more the mind-meld that I had a problem with then the mind trick Ren had used.  It was clear from the movie that that by the end of the meld she was giving as good as she got.  Maybe not the right term to use seeing as how those two are probably related... but anyway.  Did Ren pull that trick out of Kylo's mind during the mind-meld errr "awakening" or did she remember it from a flashback that got cut from the movie??!?  A little more back story on how she came about that knowledge would have been nice.  The mind-meld on the other hand... got to remember to spread the fingers next time and say the little chant that goes with it.

I didn't have a problem with Ford being/dying in this movie.  Solo wasn't tasked to play football, he was tasked by the mother of their child to save that child's life and arguably his soul.  I don't know many fathers who wouldn't face a lot more than that given what was at stake regardless of age. 

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2016, 11:06:46 am »
That's funny.  You start out saying you don't have a problem with our Mary Sue, but when you start to think about it, you realize that she's too much.


I said no such thing. I said I had a problem with one thing she did. I just elaborated on it more than what I liked about her.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2016, 11:14:12 am »
I didn't have a problem with Ford being/dying in this movie.  Solo wasn't tasked to play football, he was tasked by the mother of their child to save that child's life and arguably his soul.  I don't know many fathers who wouldn't face a lot more than that given what was at stake regardless of age.


It was a pretty foolish move on Han's part. I knew he was dead as soon as he started walking onto the bridge.

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2016, 11:20:56 am »
amazing how no one has ever thought to put railings on the walkways/bridges.  :laugh:
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Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2016, 11:22:03 am »
Title of thread should be amended to Spoilers included.
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Offline Tulwar

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2016, 12:09:20 pm »
I said no such thing. I said I had a problem with one thing she did. I just elaborated on it more than what I liked about her.

There was nothing not to like about Rey.  She's a pretty girl that doesn't talk too much.  The problem is that she's in a Jar Jar Abrams film.  The characters all come together though inexplicable coincidence and overcome the bad guy, even though the writers never give you a reason the good guys should win.  Well, actually, this is a new failure for Jar Jar, but it's a biggie.

My problem with her is that she is too many heroes rolled into one.  Chubacca is the inheritor of the Falcon, but Rey takes the pilot seat.  What's up with that?  Then again, what was Chewie doing, still in the co-pilot's seat, with Han, some forty years after the rebellion?

Here I go, starting into the complete lack of character or story development.  Everything is as we left it.  The Empire is down, but not beaten.  Though down, the Empire still manages to build, in complete secrecy, a weapon that completely dwarfs the Death Star, but doesn't make any sense.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2016, 12:47:21 pm »
Well, I thought we were just discussing Rey, not the whole package, but OK...


There was nothing not to like about Rey.  She's a pretty girl that doesn't talk too much.  The problem is that she's in a Jar Jar Abrams film.  The characters all come together though inexplicable coincidence and overcome the bad guy, even though the writers never give you a reason the good guys should win.  Well, actually, this is a new failure for Jar Jar, but it's a biggie.


You seem to have a problem with the basic premise of the character, which is your entitled opinion. I don't. I just have some reservations about how fast she developed given the circumstances. What you're really complaining about here is how JJ took SW:IV and just switched a few things around character-wise and made the same movie. I agree with that. And the reason the good guys should win is the fact that the bad guys are even more pathetic than the good guys!  :P


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My problem with her is that she is too many heroes rolled into one.  Chubacca is the inheritor of the Falcon, but Rey takes the pilot seat.  What's up with that?  Then again, what was Chewie doing, still in the co-pilot's seat, with Han, some forty years after the rebellion?


For the same reason Chewie didn't get a medal in the first one even though he was there and fighting and hero-ing during the whole thing. For the same reason Chewie gets disrespected and called a "thing" and "walking carpet" everywhere he goes. Chewie always deferred to Han in everything. His loyalty is unquestioned. Why? We have never found out. Chewie also knows most people can't understand a thing he says, so it's nice to have a translator around, even if it means he has to act like a second banana. It's not fair and it's not right, but Chewie has always been the doormat of SW. C3PO almost gets more respect sometimes.


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Here I go, starting into the complete lack of character or story development.  Everything is as we left it.  The Empire is down, but not beaten.  Though down, the Empire still manages to build, in complete secrecy, a weapon that completely dwarfs the Death Star, but doesn't make any sense.


I agree with all of this, but it all rolls into one big problem that I don't feel needs dissecting since it was so obvious that this was just a retread of SW:IV/VI. Everything else just stems from that large gorilla.

Offline Javora

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2016, 01:12:12 pm »

It was a pretty foolish move on Han's part. I knew he was dead as soon as he started walking onto the bridge.

I got the feeling that Leia and Han both knew when they said their goodbyes.  Given what was at stake, they (or Han really) had to try.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2016, 01:39:01 pm »

It was a pretty foolish move on Han's part. I knew he was dead as soon as he started walking onto the bridge.

I got the feeling that Leia and Han both knew when they said their goodbyes.  Given what was at stake, they (or Han really) had to try.


Yeah me too. I just wasn't totally sure until Han disregarded all sense.


On another note; was it just me or was anyone else waiting for Han to say "I know" when Leia said "You always drove me crazy" right before they hugged? For a guy that likes to rehash stuff (and the fact that they seem to like to use "I have a bad feeling about this" as many times as they can in every incarnation of SW) JJ sure missed the boat on that one. I was actually disappointed that they missed that opportunity. Han did kind of imply it with the hug, but you know.

Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2016, 05:28:26 pm »
Title of thread should be amended to Spoilers included.

Believe me, if I could rename the title of this thread, I would add "Possible Spoilers and Probable Misogyny Found here"

Offline Brush Wolf

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2016, 07:21:19 pm »
amazing how no one has ever thought to put railings on the walkways/bridges.  :laugh:

It is obvious that there are no lawyers in the Star Wars universe.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2016, 07:27:19 pm »
amazing how no one has ever thought to put railings on the walkways/bridges.  :laugh:

It is obvious that there are no lawyers in the Star Wars universe.


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Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2016, 07:46:53 pm »
So the death star took about 20 years in their universe to complete and this sun-sucking death planet was built in roughly the same time frame by the new order? The more I look below the popcorn flick surface of this movie, the more I'm disappointed.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2016, 07:50:39 pm »
The whole idea of that weapon was so silly I won't bother even picking it apart.

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2016, 08:08:56 pm »
I'm still bothered by Luke not having a word of dialogue in the film after the voice over in the trailer. It turned into Star Wars 7, the search for Luke and we didn't even get a word.
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Offline Vipre

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2016, 10:10:19 pm »
An action/adventure film aimed at the young should always have a young male hero.

Why?

I'd question the "aimed at the young" bit as well. I'd argue it was aimed at the 20-40 crowd, i.e. fans of the originals and prequels.


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The beauty of the original SW was that that there wasn't just one hero.  The princess was no shrinking violet, either.

In this piece of crap, all we get it a Mary Sue.  Yes, there's already a derogatory term for the kind of heroine we get in SW7.  The term fits perfectly.  Look it up.

What we got was Luke, who was the Mary Sue/Marty Stu of the first film, merged with Leia, also got New Han, and Obi-wan-ish.



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Harrison Ford was great in the first 3 movies, but he didn't belong in this.  Action/adventure heroes shouldn't be old men.  It's not natural.  Ask any 50 year old if he's up to a game of football, and you'll get the picture.

Ford was playing Guinness' role,  Boyega was E4 Han whose whole bit the first film was running away, and Ridley as above. His purpose/role is to introduce the new heroes to the bigger picture.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 10:34:58 pm by Vipre »
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Offline Tulwar

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2016, 11:18:37 am »
Star Wars has always been aimed at children.  The first and second, episodes 4 and 5, were the most adult in the series, as Lucas had been creating the series out of his own fantasy.  Later, he was thinking more about his own children, and the success of the toy sales.  The Return of the Jedi was absolutely pedantic.

Now, JarJar Abrams has the franchise, and it's really hard to tell what he is doing.  I almost think that he's doing a self parody, like his Star Trek films.  The Star Trek "reboot" movies reverse something from TOS and the movies in just about every frame.  It defies logic to think they are straight films.  BB8 is a cuter robot than R2D2.  There's the reverse father/son thing with the bad guy.  The hint of a black/white relationship may be a deliberate attempt to offend people.

I really think that JarJar Abrams is a misanthropist, deliberately making awful movies to mess with people.  What was Lost about?  He was simply stringing people along, with nothing at the end of it all.

As far as what would serve the executives at Disney the best, is keeping the franchise at the kindergarten level.  Merchandising makes more money than box office receipts.  Little boys like toy spaceships and light sabers more than little girls, even if you make female stars.  This is where Rey is a flop.  Sure, some little boys do want to grow up to be girls, but who wants to be Finn?
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2016, 01:47:17 am »
Little boys like toy spaceships and light sabers more than little girls, even if you make female stars.  This is where Rey is a flop.



Well, there's at least one little girl and her mother who disagree with you:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/06/entertainment/star-wars-monopoly-wheres-rey-feat/index.html




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Sure, some little boys do want to grow up to be girls, but who wants to be Finn?



Why don't we let the story play out before condemning someone who has literally no life experience, up to and including not even being worthy of a name. Those troopers were fodder to the extreme. Only one trooper had a name at all (what do you know, another female!  :o). At least the clones knew what they were bred to be right from the start. These poor saps are victims of cult brainwashing. At least Finn had the temerity to walk away when he felt remorse at what he was experiencing. After that he was a fish out of water.

From what I've seen, JJ is good at specific moments, but his overall arcs seem to lack the emotional and structural "ummph" that these stories require to be memorable. That said, he wasn't the only writer on this, so there is responsibility all around.

Offline Tulwar

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2016, 12:34:23 pm »
What does this film give us?

Scenery?  The same desert we saw in most of the other films, but less.  At the end, there's a little bit of an ancient Scottish village.  In between, we get a little bit of a nondescript forest that could be anywhere, so it's even hard to tell that the film has changed venue, when the fighting breaks out.

Spaceships?  OK, the new X-wing is kinda cool.  The TIE fighters and imperial cruisers are pretty much the same as what we saw in the original film, the MF just got rectangular exhausts, and the few incidental spaceships along the way were pretty nondescript.

The costumes pretty much didn't change, except the storm troopers hats, and they were no improvement.

The new characters stank on ice.  The film never gives you much reason to care about Rey.  Finn's part is so badly written I won't even begin to go into it.  The new pilot Poe, hardly has a part in the film.  Darth Vader Junior completely fails as a scary villain.  The mysterious ubervillain, is a gollem want-a-be.  Just what is Harrison Ford doing in this film, playing the same swashbuckling pirate he did when he was a young man?  We grew up loving Hans Solo, so why do they have to make him such a (explicative deleted) loser?  Luke, Leia, C3P0, R2D2 all get forced cameo appearances.  BB8 seems to be little but a parody of R2D2.  All of them deserve no label other than "FAIL."

The plot is the most contrived garbage I've ever been subjected to.  I won't break it down entirely, but the search for Luke gets dropped at the very beginning, and gets picked up at the very end, leaving one to ask, "Why bother in the first place?"  Of course, that also begs the question of why Luke would abandon everybody.  It never bothers to explain what the First Order is, or give the slightest clue of what the political situation is.  It also rehashes the original trilogy in the most forced and inorganic way imaginable.

I cannot remember hearing a single note of the musical score.

Nothing in this film rewarded me for showing up at the theater.  Why would I subject myself to the showing of another installment of this garbage?  Star Wars is dead.

At least with Star Trek, JJ Abrams murdering this series gives it's new owner carte blanche to do what ever they want.  That's a healthy thing.  With Star Wars, we have a huge success for Disney, that leads down a very dark path.  There is no hope for Star Wars.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2016, 01:37:15 pm »
The writers talked about why Luke was MIA for the first film. They found that in all the other versions they wrote that whenever Luke showed up he took over the movie, and they wanted the new movie to be about the new characters, not the old. Their hearts were in the right place, but they were in too much of a hurry to make the movie and didn't think it through very well. This is what comes from setting release dates before your script and talent are even lined up.

Offline EschelonOfJudgemnt

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2016, 05:51:30 pm »
Not feeling bad at all about missing the new movie, based on y'alls feedback.

I have a couple of versions of the original trilogy on VHS.  I keep hoping that they will drop the '3 pack' of either of the Star Wars trilogies on DVD down from $34.95 at WalMart, but it hasn't dropped at all.  And Han shot first!

I have the same problem with Enterprise.  I have the first season, but the second and subsequent seasons are too pricey...  I don't mind paying as much as $20 for a season if it's a good series (the 'reboot' Dr Who's can be had for about this, up until Season 8+), but yeah if they want 'full price' years or even decades after release, yeah I generally don't buy in.

Still intrigued about Rogue One though.  Hopefully JJ isn't anywhere near that one.  Gareth Edwards is the director, anyone know anything about him?


Offline TarMinyatur

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2016, 11:56:39 pm »
I went into the theater a few weeks ago with very low expectations. And at the end of the movie, I felt that "The Force Awakens" wasn't too bad. I liked the mysteriously talented Rey and the defective, compassionate stormtrooper Finn. It was good to see Chewie and Han after all these years... General Leia and C3PO had limited roles, but they were ok. The battles involving X-Wings and Tie-fighters and the Millenium Falcon were fine and inevitable for Star Wars. The scenes involving Han's contraband tentacled beasts felt forced, and were forgettable.

But as the weeks have passed, I've felt injured by this movie. The senseless violence of the First Order and this inexplicable Darth Vaderish villain was a step above my tolerance level. This film is inappropriate for children, IMO. Why is Kylo so angry? Why does he wear a helmet and use a voice modifier when he has no need for them? (Vader/Anakin needed his black helm -- he would die without it.) Then there's this Emperor-ish Supreme Leader giant that seems to be animated directly from the Hobbit or LOTR. So this ogre is determined to destroy peaceful worlds. The universe simply isn't big enough for the light and dark sides? I'm pleading for complexity, something dynamic.

The StarKiller is so unbelievably stupid and unclever that I'm almost at a loss for words. It has an Achilles heel, called a "thermal oscillator". Huh? Fill a planet's core with 100% of the energy of the nearest star such that night falls? Gimmie a break.

Despite all this, I will probably see the next episode because I like Mark Hamill and the character of Luke Skywalker.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2016, 07:00:51 am »
Then there's this Emperor-ish Supreme Leader giant that seems to be animated directly from the Hobbit or LOTR.


The CGI/motion capture was very poor on Snoke. It looked  like CGI, which in this day and age is pretty unforgivable if you're trying to look realistic. The size was just the hologram though. He isn't really that big.

Many people are trying to figure out who Snoke really is. I'm voting for Jar Jar. It's revenge for all those horrible things fans have been saying for sixteen years. Only he could make the first order so pathetic!  ;D

Offline Javora

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2016, 08:58:26 am »

But as the weeks have passed, I've felt injured by this movie. The senseless violence of the First Order and this inexplicable Darth Vaderish villain was a step above my tolerance level. This film is inappropriate for children, IMO. Why is Kylo so angry? Why does he wear a helmet and use a voice modifier when he has no need for them? (Vader/Anakin needed his black helm -- he would die without it.) Then there's this Emperor-ish Supreme Leader giant that seems to be animated directly from the Hobbit or LOTR. So this ogre is determined to destroy peaceful worlds. The universe simply isn't big enough for the light and dark sides? I'm pleading for complexity, something dynamic.


Despite all this, I will probably see the next episode because I like Mark Hamill and the character of Luke Skywalker.

I kind of felt the same way.  I think that the Vader worshiping is what led Kylo to wear the helmet.  But then to me that makes the Kylo character too weak to stand on its own.  Was also a little let down on the seemingly lack of rage from Chewie when Han died.  Is Chewie slowing down in his old age?  Obviously Kylo was too messed up to stop Chewie from killing a couple of storm troopers and blowing a huge hole in the side of the building.  However Chewie stops attacking Kylo after taking only one shot at the person who just killed a life long friend?  If I was the CEO at Disney, I'd be seriously reconsidering keeping JJ on for the next movie.

Offline knightstorm

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2016, 09:04:15 am »


Many people are trying to figure out who Snoke really is. I'm voting for Jar Jar. It's revenge for all those horrible things fans have been saying for sixteen years. Only he could make the first order so pathetic!  ;D


http://darth.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Darth_Binks?file=Emperor_jar_jar.jpg

Offline d4v1ks

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Offline Lieutenant_Q

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2016, 07:28:20 am »

But as the weeks have passed, I've felt injured by this movie. The senseless violence of the First Order and this inexplicable Darth Vaderish villain was a step above my tolerance level. This film is inappropriate for children, IMO. Why is Kylo so angry? Why does he wear a helmet and use a voice modifier when he has no need for them? (Vader/Anakin needed his black helm -- he would die without it.) Then there's this Emperor-ish Supreme Leader giant that seems to be animated directly from the Hobbit or LOTR. So this ogre is determined to destroy peaceful worlds. The universe simply isn't big enough for the light and dark sides? I'm pleading for complexity, something dynamic.


Despite all this, I will probably see the next episode because I like Mark Hamill and the character of Luke Skywalker.

I kind of felt the same way.  I think that the Vader worshiping is what led Kylo to wear the helmet.  But then to me that makes the Kylo character too weak to stand on its own.  Was also a little let down on the seemingly lack of rage from Chewie when Han died.  Is Chewie slowing down in his old age?  Obviously Kylo was too messed up to stop Chewie from killing a couple of storm troopers and blowing a huge hole in the side of the building.  However Chewie stops attacking Kylo after taking only one shot at the person who just killed a life long friend?  If I was the CEO at Disney, I'd be seriously reconsidering keeping JJ on for the next movie.

Chewie was probably involved in raising Ben Solo, if there is such a thing in the Star Wars Universe, I would imagine that Chewie may have been Ben's God Father.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2016, 08:53:27 am »
why kylo ren turned to the dark side
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3IjHPIH6JQ

Offline EschelonOfJudgemnt

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2016, 07:10:16 am »
Soooo, The Force Awakens DVD hit retail this week, and I went ahead and picked it up (on sale at WalMart of course).  I bought the 'no extras' version to save some coin.

While I don't hate it (it certainly was much better than Episode III, which I am on record as 'I won't get those 2+ hours of my life back'), It did leave me feeling a little flat.  Lots of reasons to reawaken old memories, and I loved seeing the Han/Chewie dynamic again, but at the end of the day it didn't leave me wanting more. 

The 'Kylo Ren plot twist' thingie seemed like another of JJ's rabbits.  Appears out of nowhere, doesn't seem to be thought through all that much, simply introduced for 'wow factor' and fails miserably in the process.  And revealed waaaaaay too early.  The 'Luke, I am your father' moment in Empire was true brilliance, as NO ONE saw it coming.  This one... not so much.

There were some enjoyable moments in this movie, so i don't mind owning it.  But yeah it's a mere shadow of Episodes IV-VI, which although dated now still hold up quite nicely.  They need to restore the 'Han shot first' thing in the re-releases though...

Seeing the Lucasfilm logo at the beginning, without George Lucas at the helm, seemed inappropriate to me.  Yeah, it's not his company anymore, but George had no part in this movie, other than providing a backstory to draw from.

Overall, I give it a 'D' for effort, giving the FX guys an 'A' for some of the amazing backdrops (specifically the 'beached' Star Destroyer and Walker).  Didn't like the tweaks to some of the 'classic' craft, and was wondering where the other fighter classes were (A, B, Y wings), but then JJ likes to change everything.  The 'new and improved' Star Destroyer/Flagship looked a bit busy to me, in comparison to the clean lines on the originals.

Didn't mind the 'female lead' at all, but then I'm also a Black Widow fan (Scarlett Johannsen does an awesome job with that character).  When Family Guy starts teasing your franchise for only having two women in the entire universe (Episodes IV-VI), you know there's a problem (they forgot to count Aunt Beru though).  Episodes I-III had Padme, but few other notable women characters as well.  Hollywood has had a history of sexism, so it's good to see them making an effort to correct that.  Sometimes they do over-correct, sure, but there are a lot of lady sci fi fans out there as well.  Just go to any ComicCon...

In other sad news, we lost the voice of Admiral Ackbar this week, Erik Bauersfeld.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/05/473073158/star-wars-voice-actor-who-as-admiral-ackbar-warned-its-a-trap-dies-at-93

Offline Lono

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2016, 11:40:11 pm »
It's funny - because I find this trailer more moving then the actual movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCc2v7izk8w

The FEELS!