Topic: Star Wars: The Force Awakens  (Read 5775 times)

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Offline Tulwar

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2016, 11:07:01 pm »
An action/adventure film aimed at the young should always have a young male hero.  The beauty of the original SW was that that there wasn't just one hero.  The princess was no shrinking violet, either.

In this piece of crap, all we get it a Mary Sue.  Yes, there's already a derogatory term for the kind of heroine we get in SW7.  The term fits perfectly.  Look it up.

Harrison Ford was great in the first 3 movies, but he didn't belong in this.  Action/adventure heroes shouldn't be old men.  It's not natural.  Ask any 50 year old if he's up to a game of football, and you'll get the picture.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2016, 03:35:24 am »
In this piece of crap, all we get it a Mary Sue.


I didn't have a problem with just about anything Rey did. After all she is a scavenger living on a harsh planet. Survival skills would seem to be a necessary good idea. I didn't mind her getting in touch with the Force and having an awakening to the greater picture either. What I did mind was her somehow knowing how to use a very advanced Jedi skill that takes discipline and practice (and doesn't always work even for a Jedi Master) on Daniel Craig (yes, he was that stormtrooper!) after just admitting barely an hour of screen time before that they thought all of that stuff was just legends and fairytales. Think about it: There hasn't been a real Jedi presence in the galaxy for about fifty-five years. Luke was an anomaly that most people probably never knew about. They probably heard of him as a Rebel hero, but the whole Jedi thing seems like it was kept pretty quiet. How the hell did Rey even know what that was, let alone that it was possible? It completely destroys Yoda's admonition that only the most serious and disciplined mind can become a true Jedi. Shortcuts are for the Sith (and millennials  ::)). They should have just jacked her into the Matrix. At least her sudden Jedi badassness would have been more believable.

Offline Tulwar

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2016, 05:35:14 am »
That's funny.  You start out saying you don't have a problem with our Mary Sue, but when you start to think about it, you realize that she's too much.  The old Star Was was an ensemble.  Now, we have the whole universe on one girl's shoulders.  Everybody is just there to support her.

There was a feminist take on this that went two directions.  1.) A woman can do anything a man can do, only better.  2.) Women are only worthy if they are really good at performing traditional male roles.  The first is demeaning to men.  The second demeans women.  Pick your poison.
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Offline Javora

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2016, 09:04:33 am »
I also had a problem with the mind trick, however Kylo had just had for a lack of better term a mind-meld with Rey not long before.  Thinking more on that, it was probably more the mind-meld that I had a problem with then the mind trick Ren had used.  It was clear from the movie that that by the end of the meld she was giving as good as she got.  Maybe not the right term to use seeing as how those two are probably related... but anyway.  Did Ren pull that trick out of Kylo's mind during the mind-meld errr "awakening" or did she remember it from a flashback that got cut from the movie??!?  A little more back story on how she came about that knowledge would have been nice.  The mind-meld on the other hand... got to remember to spread the fingers next time and say the little chant that goes with it.

I didn't have a problem with Ford being/dying in this movie.  Solo wasn't tasked to play football, he was tasked by the mother of their child to save that child's life and arguably his soul.  I don't know many fathers who wouldn't face a lot more than that given what was at stake regardless of age. 

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2016, 11:06:46 am »
That's funny.  You start out saying you don't have a problem with our Mary Sue, but when you start to think about it, you realize that she's too much.


I said no such thing. I said I had a problem with one thing she did. I just elaborated on it more than what I liked about her.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2016, 11:14:12 am »
I didn't have a problem with Ford being/dying in this movie.  Solo wasn't tasked to play football, he was tasked by the mother of their child to save that child's life and arguably his soul.  I don't know many fathers who wouldn't face a lot more than that given what was at stake regardless of age.


It was a pretty foolish move on Han's part. I knew he was dead as soon as he started walking onto the bridge.

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2016, 11:20:56 am »
amazing how no one has ever thought to put railings on the walkways/bridges.  :laugh:
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Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2016, 11:22:03 am »
Title of thread should be amended to Spoilers included.
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Offline Tulwar

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2016, 12:09:20 pm »
I said no such thing. I said I had a problem with one thing she did. I just elaborated on it more than what I liked about her.

There was nothing not to like about Rey.  She's a pretty girl that doesn't talk too much.  The problem is that she's in a Jar Jar Abrams film.  The characters all come together though inexplicable coincidence and overcome the bad guy, even though the writers never give you a reason the good guys should win.  Well, actually, this is a new failure for Jar Jar, but it's a biggie.

My problem with her is that she is too many heroes rolled into one.  Chubacca is the inheritor of the Falcon, but Rey takes the pilot seat.  What's up with that?  Then again, what was Chewie doing, still in the co-pilot's seat, with Han, some forty years after the rebellion?

Here I go, starting into the complete lack of character or story development.  Everything is as we left it.  The Empire is down, but not beaten.  Though down, the Empire still manages to build, in complete secrecy, a weapon that completely dwarfs the Death Star, but doesn't make any sense.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2016, 12:47:21 pm »
Well, I thought we were just discussing Rey, not the whole package, but OK...


There was nothing not to like about Rey.  She's a pretty girl that doesn't talk too much.  The problem is that she's in a Jar Jar Abrams film.  The characters all come together though inexplicable coincidence and overcome the bad guy, even though the writers never give you a reason the good guys should win.  Well, actually, this is a new failure for Jar Jar, but it's a biggie.


You seem to have a problem with the basic premise of the character, which is your entitled opinion. I don't. I just have some reservations about how fast she developed given the circumstances. What you're really complaining about here is how JJ took SW:IV and just switched a few things around character-wise and made the same movie. I agree with that. And the reason the good guys should win is the fact that the bad guys are even more pathetic than the good guys!  :P


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My problem with her is that she is too many heroes rolled into one.  Chubacca is the inheritor of the Falcon, but Rey takes the pilot seat.  What's up with that?  Then again, what was Chewie doing, still in the co-pilot's seat, with Han, some forty years after the rebellion?


For the same reason Chewie didn't get a medal in the first one even though he was there and fighting and hero-ing during the whole thing. For the same reason Chewie gets disrespected and called a "thing" and "walking carpet" everywhere he goes. Chewie always deferred to Han in everything. His loyalty is unquestioned. Why? We have never found out. Chewie also knows most people can't understand a thing he says, so it's nice to have a translator around, even if it means he has to act like a second banana. It's not fair and it's not right, but Chewie has always been the doormat of SW. C3PO almost gets more respect sometimes.


Quote
Here I go, starting into the complete lack of character or story development.  Everything is as we left it.  The Empire is down, but not beaten.  Though down, the Empire still manages to build, in complete secrecy, a weapon that completely dwarfs the Death Star, but doesn't make any sense.


I agree with all of this, but it all rolls into one big problem that I don't feel needs dissecting since it was so obvious that this was just a retread of SW:IV/VI. Everything else just stems from that large gorilla.

Offline Javora

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2016, 01:12:12 pm »

It was a pretty foolish move on Han's part. I knew he was dead as soon as he started walking onto the bridge.

I got the feeling that Leia and Han both knew when they said their goodbyes.  Given what was at stake, they (or Han really) had to try.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2016, 01:39:01 pm »

It was a pretty foolish move on Han's part. I knew he was dead as soon as he started walking onto the bridge.

I got the feeling that Leia and Han both knew when they said their goodbyes.  Given what was at stake, they (or Han really) had to try.


Yeah me too. I just wasn't totally sure until Han disregarded all sense.


On another note; was it just me or was anyone else waiting for Han to say "I know" when Leia said "You always drove me crazy" right before they hugged? For a guy that likes to rehash stuff (and the fact that they seem to like to use "I have a bad feeling about this" as many times as they can in every incarnation of SW) JJ sure missed the boat on that one. I was actually disappointed that they missed that opportunity. Han did kind of imply it with the hug, but you know.

Offline TAnimaL

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2016, 05:28:26 pm »
Title of thread should be amended to Spoilers included.

Believe me, if I could rename the title of this thread, I would add "Possible Spoilers and Probable Misogyny Found here"

Offline Brush Wolf

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2016, 07:21:19 pm »
amazing how no one has ever thought to put railings on the walkways/bridges.  :laugh:

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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2016, 07:27:19 pm »
amazing how no one has ever thought to put railings on the walkways/bridges.  :laugh:

It is obvious that there are no lawyers in the Star Wars universe.


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Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2016, 07:46:53 pm »
So the death star took about 20 years in their universe to complete and this sun-sucking death planet was built in roughly the same time frame by the new order? The more I look below the popcorn flick surface of this movie, the more I'm disappointed.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2016, 07:50:39 pm »
The whole idea of that weapon was so silly I won't bother even picking it apart.

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2016, 08:08:56 pm »
I'm still bothered by Luke not having a word of dialogue in the film after the voice over in the trailer. It turned into Star Wars 7, the search for Luke and we didn't even get a word.
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Offline Vipre

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2016, 10:10:19 pm »
An action/adventure film aimed at the young should always have a young male hero.

Why?

I'd question the "aimed at the young" bit as well. I'd argue it was aimed at the 20-40 crowd, i.e. fans of the originals and prequels.


Quote
The beauty of the original SW was that that there wasn't just one hero.  The princess was no shrinking violet, either.

In this piece of crap, all we get it a Mary Sue.  Yes, there's already a derogatory term for the kind of heroine we get in SW7.  The term fits perfectly.  Look it up.

What we got was Luke, who was the Mary Sue/Marty Stu of the first film, merged with Leia, also got New Han, and Obi-wan-ish.



Quote
Harrison Ford was great in the first 3 movies, but he didn't belong in this.  Action/adventure heroes shouldn't be old men.  It's not natural.  Ask any 50 year old if he's up to a game of football, and you'll get the picture.

Ford was playing Guinness' role,  Boyega was E4 Han whose whole bit the first film was running away, and Ridley as above. His purpose/role is to introduce the new heroes to the bigger picture.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 10:34:58 pm by Vipre »
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Offline Tulwar

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2016, 11:18:37 am »
Star Wars has always been aimed at children.  The first and second, episodes 4 and 5, were the most adult in the series, as Lucas had been creating the series out of his own fantasy.  Later, he was thinking more about his own children, and the success of the toy sales.  The Return of the Jedi was absolutely pedantic.

Now, JarJar Abrams has the franchise, and it's really hard to tell what he is doing.  I almost think that he's doing a self parody, like his Star Trek films.  The Star Trek "reboot" movies reverse something from TOS and the movies in just about every frame.  It defies logic to think they are straight films.  BB8 is a cuter robot than R2D2.  There's the reverse father/son thing with the bad guy.  The hint of a black/white relationship may be a deliberate attempt to offend people.

I really think that JarJar Abrams is a misanthropist, deliberately making awful movies to mess with people.  What was Lost about?  He was simply stringing people along, with nothing at the end of it all.

As far as what would serve the executives at Disney the best, is keeping the franchise at the kindergarten level.  Merchandising makes more money than box office receipts.  Little boys like toy spaceships and light sabers more than little girls, even if you make female stars.  This is where Rey is a flop.  Sure, some little boys do want to grow up to be girls, but who wants to be Finn?
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