Topic: Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.  (Read 2255 times)

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Offline Stalwart_ODST

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Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.
« on: October 11, 2017, 04:15:08 pm »
So from what I've heard, Starfleet Command IV is having problems getting off the ground. There is a large fan backing for this game. A lot of people have played the prior games, and a lot would like to see another made.

So, let's examine what you guys -have to make this happen-, -what you need to make this happen-, and -what you would like to have for this to happen-. I think that with some changes regarding strategy and resource management, and maybe a little word on the street, this thing can take off big. There's a big community for all things Star Trek and since Starfleet Command already has a name for itself in that community it already has a foothold from which to push off.

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Offline Javora

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Re: Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2017, 05:11:01 pm »
A programmer willing to take on the project would be a good start...

Offline d4v1ks

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Re: Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2017, 06:23:34 pm »
nvm
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 08:21:22 pm by d4v1ks »
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Offline Javora

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Re: Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2017, 09:48:01 pm »
lol

Offline AlDaja

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Re: Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2017, 03:38:01 pm »
A programmer willing to take on the project would be a good start...

I had a programmer who looked into this, his analysis without full access to the existing Starfleet Command III registry files, etc.. would be extremely difficult if not impossible.  At best, even with his expertise and that of others familiar with the intricacies of SFC II and III who assisted us, we were not able to dive deep enough without causing catastrophic failure to how the game(s) played, the best we could do was provide a passable overlay and create a couple of decent mods.  There is just too much coding to go through without a road map to follow.  I have tried for many years to reach out to previous Taldren people, some were willing to offer general assistance, most have moved on to better things and were not willing to offer any guidance, keep in mind this was way back when Starfleet Command II and III was still somewhat relevant.  Our summation would require a minimum of 10 years to create a passable SFC:IV and that assumes we had access to a team of people willing to work long hours with little or no pay.   This of course, also assumes we could legally secure the rights to pursue a project to its final release. To put it in perspective, to create the two fully integrated conquest mods we made (which are basically overlays), required two and a half years to complete.  This was with two of us volunteering most of our time and six others who helped with consulting and assisting with the mod builds when they could. 
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 07:59:41 pm by AlDaja »
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Offline Javora

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Re: Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2017, 09:38:24 pm »
I think the idea Exeter had was to basically start from scratch.  Use generic models and game engine that wouldn’t violate any copyrights and all the end user to add SFC ships upon use.  You’d have to go back and read all those threads to get a better idea.  There were some pretty good ideas for this project.  My idea for a game system I think made things easier. 


Offline AlDaja

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Re: Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2017, 12:06:55 am »
I think the idea Exeter had was to basically start from scratch.  Use generic models and game engine that wouldn’t violate any copyrights and all the end user to add SFC ships upon use.  You’d have to go back and read all those threads to get a better idea.  There were some pretty good ideas for this project.  My idea for a game system I think made things easier.

Maybe, but it seems the reason it has yet to "get off the ground" is because no one is seriously vested to spend the amount of time necessary to create a game worth playing.  Like I said, conservatively, my programmer and the guys we consulted with to do something similar meant several years to get a basic beta version and that assumed everyone could devote several hours a day.  I doubt many fans have the time to do it, unless they were getting paid.  We actually explored the idea back in 2014.  Getting people who would do it for free, even those eager to see a SFC:IV weren't willing to devote the time unless they were compensated, which is understandable.  Not saying it can't be done on the cheap, but I really don't see it going any further than the discussion board. 
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Offline d4v1ks

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Re: Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2017, 05:10:12 am »
< expired >
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 02:56:32 pm by d4v1ks »
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Offline d4v1ks

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Re: Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2017, 05:14:54 am »
to create the two fully integrated conquest mods we made (which are basically overlays), required two and a half years to complete.

You are probably one of the few persons that did anything positive in the last years in relation to SFC. :)
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Offline AlDaja

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Re: Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2017, 03:04:20 pm »
to create the two fully integrated conquest mods we made (which are basically overlays), required two and a half years to complete.

You are probably one of the few persons that did anything positive in the last years in relation to SFC. :)

Thank you.  Your help solving some issues we had were instrumental toward that endeavor.  It was very much appreciated.
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Offline EschelonOfJudgemnt

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Re: Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2018, 01:55:08 am »
At this point, graphics technology has advanced a LOT from where SFC was back in the day, so yeah as mentioned earlier, a new game engine would probably be the order of the day.

There are some existing game engines that might be able to be used.  An example of this would be  Unreal Engine, which is  used by various open source projects including UFO:AI.  I'm just using UE as an example of open source engines that are out there.

Of course, morphing SFC-like mechanics into such a game engine might be more trouble than it's worth.

There are some excellent 3D Modeling programs out there that can be had for free (Blender and Daz Studio being examples).  Daz is more of a render engine than a model builder, but it can make some beautiful looking renders!  And it's possible to kitbash .obj's in Daz Studio if you are so inclined.  And Hexagon (also from Daz3D) is now also free, which has modeling capability and a bridge into Daz Studio. 

My point is that using Blender, etc. you can make some really gorgeous models these days, even using just free programs, and of course you'd want to keep an eye on poly counts for whatever game engine you end up using.

Offline AlDaja

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Re: Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2018, 01:48:55 am »
Of course, morphing SFC-like mechanics into such a game engine might be more trouble than it's worth.

This...

I'd be the first in line if the SFC franchise ever got a reboot.  I'm guessing STO and Legacy was suppose to supplant our desire for a IV.  Neither of which I enjoyed very much.  Given the legal settlement Activation agreed to, we never even got to see the full potential of III (like it being finished).  There is just something about SFC:III that keeps me coming back to it and playing it from time to time.  I think the couple of mods we released built off of SFC:III last year are about as close to a "IV" I'm gonna ever experience. 
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Offline Klingon Fanatic

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Re: Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2018, 08:17:43 am »
I would like to see a SFC type game where the ship components  (size/power) are scaled to each other so the specs make sense.

FASA learned how to do this when it had the Star Trek liscense back in the 80s but didn't really carry it through. They did better with the BattleTech property and refined it in their customization schemes.

A ship with the same base parts as a Constitution class should have the same base superstructure, warp power, impulse power, battery power etc. 

Example: http://www.demonrenegadestudios.com/dwn_parts.html Ships using these components should have the same specs for each component used.

The only differences should be ship PURPOSE and adjusted from there like a Constitution class carrier vs a standard TOS Constitution. We should have a way to CUSTOMIZE ships without having to mess up the shiplist and be unable to play multiplayer because our shiplists don't match.

I'd love to be able to spend prestige points to say add a Tractor Repulser Beam to a Klingon K'teremny class for fun!

We need a Mechwarror/BattleTech for Star Trek. Maybe a MechWarrior came could be modded to do this?

SFC3 fell short on that and did not give us the same options of weapons like we do in SFC:OP.

We also need a customizable Skirmish/Multiplayer for the coding handicapped. I think Taldren should have converted the SFC1 missions/campaigns to SFC:OP but they didn't and no coder I know of ever did either.

Just my two cents.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 11:14:06 am by Klingon Fanatic »
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Offline TarMinyatur

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Re: Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2018, 01:19:34 pm »
The popularity of SFC1 and SFC2 was not harmed by a lack of customization. It was a WWII naval simulator not  a pimp-my-ride minmaxer like SFC3. I know skins and modules are popular with combat games today. But if I see a K-D7C, I know it's not going to have Ph4s. And we can play the chess game that SFB can be. But if the rook can attack diagonally with a customization, this is a pain in the neck for a tactical game. Use a bishop if you want the diagonal attack. It seems like hypercustomization doesn't serve us well as a community, but it would cater to the individual pirate who isn't part of a fleet.

Offline d4v1ks

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Re: Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2018, 01:54:07 pm »
We also need a customizable Skirmish/Multiplayer for the coding handicapped. I think Taldren should have converted the SFC1 missions/campaigns to SFC:OP but they didn't and no coder I know of ever did either.

But you already have something like that. You have FleetPick, and currently i'm working on the new Mission Editor v2.0, currently targeted at singleplayer campaign missions, that allows a ton of customization for missions, for persons without any coding experience.
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Offline d4v1ks

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Re: Let's take a look at the problems faced with SFC4.
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2018, 02:33:59 pm »
If anyone wants to help testing the last release, you can find it >> here <<.
The program outputs fully working scripts into your "./Assets/Scripts" folder, that can be edited or adjusted anytime with the same program.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2018, 01:45:59 am by d4v1ks »
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