Topic: Ideas for a future campaign. Help Wanted ;)  (Read 3497 times)

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Sartonius

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Ideas for a future campaign. Help Wanted ;)
« on: January 27, 2003, 02:13:26 am »
I have been thinking about the situation with shiplist arguments, what should be included, what should be changed, etc.

I also have been thinking back to the fact that SFC2 lacks the background information about what the different ship variants are for, and why they exist.  (You need to look in the SFC1 manual and the SFB material for that).  And, the fact that the D2 engine doesn't seem to effectively build a realistic fleet (it is random) and it does not take into account the "purposes" of the ship variants when making them available.  This in turn seems to be reflected in some players use and choice of ships.  Anyway, it's complicated.  Clearly the BPV value of ships and the prestige cost really needs to be tweaked to make things a little more fair, and of course we need many rules to govern the campaigns to make things fair.

Lastly, I was pondering how to mix things up a bit to create some fun new ways of doing things.

Surprisingly, I think I've got some "answers" but sadly have not the know-how or the resources to implement them.  I am relatively new to this community and I would like to get into helping out with the campaigns being developed so that I can help set up some neat new stuff later, hopefully when our good friends in the "R&D" department have tweaked things a bit more (hats off to TraceyG, Darkelf, et al/).

So, the first step is that I would like some constructive comments about the general themes I have in mind for potential campaigns, and then later see if anyone is interested in working with me (i.e. for later on when things have been fixed up a bit more and the newest upcoming stuff is over.)

One last thing before I go on, is I would like to say that I'm quite impressed with the overall degree of enthusiasm and dedication exhibited by this community.  

I have a feeling that the SFC2 game is going to go on to great things in the near future and become much like its basis, SFB, in many ways.  I believe that a key reason is the fact that most people that play the game have something useful to contribute to its continued development beyond the ground work done by the publishers that was never truly finished for reasons mostly beyond their control.  We have the potential to make this baby fly again.

That said, my first bunch of ideas are in the next message.  ;P
 

Cleaven

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Re: Ideas for a future campaign. Help Wanted ;)
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2003, 02:40:48 am »
The start of the "great things" wil be the release of the OP-D2 patch. Then things will really start to rock.  

Sartonius

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Idea 1: Streamlined shiplists to shake things up a bit.
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2003, 04:47:25 am »
Idea 1:  Streamlined shiplists in later era, leading into variants.

Okay, so, the first idea that started rattling around in my head relates back to the notion that there's not enough emphasis on what the starships in use are meant to be used for.  When you start a campaign in Early Era, ships are under-powered, and not as well-armed.  There are fewer variants, and the technologies in use are distinctive of the empires.  When time passes many variants are introduced in a sort of evolutionary progression, assuming war has broken out in the late early era.  Now, what I want to try is to bring things back to that early era flavour, but have ships better (faster, stronger shields, better firing arcs for more "optimal" loadouts) but more straightforward.  Emphasis on defense (at least as much as that is possible for aggressors) leading to a new wave of different tactics.  Fighting the enemy in the NCM is a lot different than flying the NCA or the DWC.  THEN we introduce war and a new series of logical variants assuming the first great General War doesn't happen until much much later.

While you could do this for any campaign, it would make sense to have the story match the new shiplist.

So, suppose that in an alternate history of SFC, the Organians faded into "irrelevancy" once the neutral zones were established, and to a certain degree history unfolded much as it did in the "canon" Star Trek TOS movie era.

As such, that would mean no General War, no ISC War of Pacification, etc.  Star fleets would be streamlined.  For example, the primary starships in use by the Federation would be a hypothetical "peacetime" version of the FFB, the CAI, the NCL, the NCM, and later, the BCE.  You might even throw in a DN design (e.g. "DNI") that was a refit of the original F-DN using the same technology that was applied to the Constitution class to create the CAI.  So, assuming this was so, that would mean the Federation would not arm its ships with G racks.  There would be no Federation carriers (**YET**) no war destroyers, no BBs (yet) no bombardment ships, no hulls wasted on carrier and task force escorts, and so on.  AMD would not be in place (yet) etc.  Shields and phasers and faster engines would be where things were at.

Logically, the other empires would also field ships more suitable to general defense and the odd border dispute, rather than more "disposable" designs meant for "continuous onslaught, all hell breaks loose" warfare like the stock shiplists are now.  For example, I can envision that instead of the D7W, the state-of-the-art Klingon cruiser would be armed with long-range disruptors, AND photon tubes, AND a cloaking device (and the power to use them to deadly effect), but not phaser-2s, and not drones.  Perhaps they would have a variant with G racks and aft-firing disruptor cannons in lieu of torpedoes for patrols on other borders.  Or perhaps trade some of its extra phasers or extra photons for G racks.  Such designs do not exist, we would need to create it in the spirit of making it a contemporary match of the CAI or a version of the C7 a lot like the BCE (you could call it the C7I or something).  And for scout ships, a bird-of-prey type "escort" ship that actually behaves like the ships in the movies:  Armed with a photon torpedo tube and disruptor banks with no phasers.  There would be a photon armed version of the F6 with no missiles.

Hydrans would have ships more like their later "fusions AND hellbore" ships.  Fighter technology could be simplified into knife-fighter patrol craft, and fusion-bombers (this is conjecture for now, obviously we'd need some Hydran experts.)  The Hydrans would also have kept their G phasers "proprietary" and since there was no intense arms race and no open warfare, the other races would not have adopted G phasers.

For Romulans, I could also list several characteristics, but for the most part more use of the Sparrowhawk "modular" concept with better balance, and emphasis on "new series" ships.  (i.e. limit use of KR ships to only a few, mostly KCR variant types.)  No old series ships still in use.  Perhaps Romulan ships with both plasma torpedoes and disruptors that they acquired from the Klingons, for example, and no D torpedoes.  And cloaking devices that used less power, therefore making them more tactically viable as something captains could use against players (especially players armed with only an NCM for example).  The Condor would be in use in an analagous role to the TNG era D'deridex Warbird with some modifications.

For the Gorn, again, a focus on "defense" rather than strictly offense but other than elimination of some unnecessary variants, the Gorn line ships are arguably already where they would need to be in such a scenario.  (correct me if I'm wrong at any rate).

For the Mirak, I haven't played them enough to know well enough, so we need someone with experience here.  Obviously they would be armed with missiles as a primary heavy weapon, but perhaps you could make it interesting:  adoption of fewer missile racks, but those racks would be the type that can fire more than once per turn.  Improved shielding, and perhaps trading disruptors for extra phasers.

For the Lyrans, you could apply changes somewhere between the Klingons and the Mirak.  Remember that the Lyrans are supposed to be technologically advanced, therefore, you would see a well-powered "central" cruiser type in use with more emphasis on the use of the ESG system and phaser-1s, with less reliance on specific point defense technologies.  Perhaps introduce disruptors with aft arcs (to match the NCM and BCE aft torpedo launchers).  

As for the ISC, if we included them, I would go with adoption of the PPD as the primary heavy weapon system, with well-distributed phaser-1 arcs, good shields, and perhaps keep the Plasma-I's for aft defenses.  


Next, there would be the start of a major conflict  leading to the introduction of changes.  These ships would be "anxiously awaited for" and there would be competition for the best ships, so most players would have to keep using the abundant "exploration starships" at first.

The technology changes could proceed as follows:

1.  One year into the war.  Reintroduction of drones and also improved point defense systems.  The Klingons would add G racks to the ships with the photorp/disruptor combo, as well as introduce a C9K type ship.  The Federation would arm its ships with AMD systems as refits, but leave its ships untouched otherwise.  Other emprires would see point defense refits.  (The Klingons would be on the offensive in this campaign; I'll explain later.)

2.  After three years of war, addition of extra traditional weapons with refits.  The races in general would produce "heavy battle cruiser" and heavy command cruiser designs that have a small increase in engine power but significant addition of heavy weapons.
 (Examples: the F-BCE+ would be updated to the F-BCH, going from 4 forward photons and 2 aft photons to 6 forward photons and 3 aft photons and would be upgraded from 10x Phaser-1 to 12x Phaser-1.  Power would be increased from 51 to 55.  Addition of 2 photons to the CAI would lead to the CCI.  Gorn and Romulan ships would add extra F plasma tube capacity and extra phasers, while the Klingons and Lyrans would add extra disruptors.  The Mirak would add extra missile racks.  The Hydrans would add extra hellbores.

3.  Simultaneous to the introduction of the heavy battle cruisers, light cruisers with attrition in mind would be added that would be neo-war cruisers.  New construction would be "war destroyer" versions of the light cruisers.  For the Klingons this would involve introduction of a D5 type ship at this phase, which would feature disruptors and torpedoes with a G rack thrown in.  The other empires would see modification of their existing light cruiser designs to war cruiser designs.  For example, the Federation would build the NCW, which would essentially be the NCL (note *not* the NCL+) but with aft photon arcs.  The Romulans would create the W module for the Sparrowhawk to create the SPW, which would basically be the Sparrowhawk version of a K5R (2 S plasmas and similar phaser loadout).  For the Hydrans enough variations exist in the stock list to find a suitable war cruiser design, while perhaps a "medium cruiser" introduction for other races.

4.  Four years into the war, introduction of battle carriers for empires with fighters.  The BCVs of the empires we could take from the stock lists.  Fighters would consist of craft with a limited number of phaser-2s (space superiority fighters) and bombers armed with phaser-3s and heavy weapons / missiles.  (e.g. Federation would have torpedoes, Hydrans would have fusion cannons, Klingons and Mirak would have missiles.)

5.  Simultaneous to the battle carriers, introduction of PFs in two flavours.  The first would be PFs with phasers, e.g. 2x Ph-1 and 3x Ph-2.  The second would be PF "bombers" for delivering torpedoes, but instead of masses of F plasmas, I would suggest something like 2 F-plasmas and 2x Ph-1.  The PF tenders would be 4-PF ships carried by war cruisers that sacrifice aft phasers for docking ports.

5.  Introduction of "late era" CVAs 2 years later (6 years into the war).  The CVAs would carry 16 fighters instead of 8 but would have the same weapons loadouts as the BCVs.

6.  7 years into the war.  If this was in OP, I would suggest at this phase introduce X phasers to replace phaser-1s.  Since this would likely remain an EAW campaign, that is not feasible.  However, at this phase, introduction of general power and phaser refits for all heavy battle cruisers (but not the carriers or destroyers, nor for the older hulls like F-CA variants in service (e.g. bump the F-BCH up from say, 55 power to 60 power).

This would likely be the "end" of the war.


Next:  Story proposals  

Sartonius

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Idea 2: Campaign 1: The Praxis War.
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2003, 05:59:53 am »
"The Praxis War" concept.

The game would start in 2291 with the modified shiplist I have described.  2291 is the year that Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country was set.  

<snipped original text out>

Upon reconsideration, it would be impossible to pull off correctly due to certain limitations, plus it would be likely to seriously disadvantage one side.

The essential concept was that  we streamline the shiplist as described above, but to a less severe degree, and started the war in the late era around 2290.

Anyway, it was just a brainstorm.  
« Last Edit: January 29, 2003, 02:43:32 am by Sartonius »

Julin Eurthyr

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Re: Idea 2: Campaign 1: The Praxis War.
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2003, 08:02:03 pm »
Some thoughts:

1. History: well thought out and possibly interesting, would have to see the map itself and see how it unfolds...

2. Ships: According to SFB design philoshopies, the "war" variants (War cruiser, war destroyer, all "new" series cruisers except for the Romulans, Lyran "trimaran" hulls, etc.) are designs based scrictly around the requirements of making stronger starships on smaller hulls (ie, the NCL / NCA is a match for a earlier CA, but on a CL hull, the DW is a DD-hulled match for a pre-war CL, etc.)  The major ways of acheiving this were to sacrifice crew comforts (only "canon" reference, compare Defiant to Voyager / Galaxy), and cruising capacity.
Therefore, most races would continue upgrading their original hull designs.  Notable exceptions:
Romulans - would build new series starships basically one way or another
Federation - would design some kind of newer CL-series, however, they would be more in line with say Gorn / Mirak / Lyran CLs and the D6 than the NCLs.

Therefore, most races would keep their "original" Line ships, ending with the epitome of each hull, the CCH (F-CB, K-D7W, G-CCH, etc.)

The BCH is, in some ways, a "war" variant but it was also designed as a full-capacity replacement for most CAs...

Just a commentary.  Feel free to consider it as you would.  I would like to see your ideas...

KOTH-Steel Claw

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Re: Ideas for a future campaign. Help Wanted ;)
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2003, 09:56:00 am »
Maybe a campaign with stock Frigates/Destroyers/Light Cruisers/Heavy Cruisers would work. Nothing more. Just a thought.

Sartonius

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Idea 3: Carrier focus
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2003, 03:05:08 am »
Hmmn, so, instead of reinventing the wheel, perhaps just cut out everything but "ships of the line."

This also is something logical.  Instead of adding things, simply remove unnecessary variant ship types.  No escorts, no aegis cruisers, no bombardment ships, just line ships.  Assuming there was no General War early on, there wouldn't be a large mothball stock of war destroyers because there would have been no reason to build them.  I can see keeping the FFG and the DDG since by late era drones are fast.  As well you could keep missile racks on line ships so long as you never had more than 2 or 3, or then you'd be back to "bombardment ships".  (Mirak, of course, would keep their missile line ships and all would suffer somewhat, but their opponents would be able to keep G racks and AMD, so it would balance.)


All right, another new idea:  Emphasis on carrier warfare.

As it stands, with the sheer variety of ships available, the existence of carriers is sort of an "auxilliary" route.  However, because of the most widely accepted command and control rules, most players don't have more than 1 ship.  This to me is problematic, because of two things.  

First, in reality, aircraft carriers changed naval warfare forever.  Submarines are still important, but all large surface ships are only relevant as escorts for the aircraft carriers.

Second, conversion to carrier warfare would make the most sense if it was all out.  In Wing Commander, the destroyers are little more than cannon fodder for the starfighters.

So, perhaps you could redesign the shiplist so that everyone would be commanding a carrier of some kind.  You might also change the rules so that, in the same way you're not allowed to fly around in an NCE, light carriers and destroyer carriers would not be allowed to have anything but "patrol" fighters, whereas strike carriers could carry one wing of "assault" fighters (plus another wing of patrol fighters) and heavy carriers could have whatever they wanted.

Dvoongar

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Re: Ideas for a future campaign. Help Wanted ;)
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2003, 06:16:38 am »
  Not that I'll be around much, but I think this is an important time to build up the player base. Some time soon, somebody should run some campaign with minimal rules/restrictions and the stock shiplist.

There are folks returning from SFC3, and more new players who are checking out EAW after sampling SFC3. A good experience for these folks would help build numbers, and be good for the game in the long term.

Just MHO.