Topic: Die Hard Re-banned

[KATChuutRitt]

See CD NT,

I will not get offended by your post or the use you put the SFC2,net forums to, it is quite within your rights IMHO.

I still disagree however (except that the posts were distasteful).  My view is that Die Hard was wronged initially, and while that doesn't warrant that kind of venom, still his is just expressing his frustrations.  When the forums were moved and he briefly had access under his old callsign, his posts were quite well- mannered.  So I do not think that venom after the fact changes this.

However,

If Taldren should reinstate him, 3 things can happen

#1 he refuses the invitation to rejoin the forums

If #1 happens end of story

#2 he misbehaves himself and is banned permanently

If #2 happens I will apologize to the community and Taldren for my efforts to bring him back, and support the ban myself.  I don't mind anyone who wishes to heap as many I told you so's as they wish.  Yyet we really aren't any worse off than we were before now are we?

#3 he behaves himself

If #3 happens alot of players will be very happy

In either of the 3 scenarios I will be fully satisfied that justice has been served.  And Taldren will have earned much respect from those who feel as I do.

I think this would be a great PR move by Taldren.

BTW CD NT,

 I can at least appreciate your view on the Die Hard issue, but I don't think there is much of a case against Likkerpig, and none at all against Max Power not being re-instated.

 

[Credo Narth]

I agree, Chuut. CD, I can understand Die Hard's view of Dave. Personally, I really have to wonder how, when Taldren got EAW out in such a state that you might as well have been trying to play with a bag of spanners, that they could make a similar, albeit lesser, mistake with SFC3. I'm bored to shreds with SFC3 already, while the patched EAW is still one of my favourite games.

Making the same mistake raises some serious questions about exactly what Taldren are doing and whether they want to remain in business in the long term. Then banning those who are more vitriolic in their complaints is deeply concerning.


Oh yeah, and BUMP...

[Toasty0]

Quote:

Quote:
You kidding right? "Creep" was the least of the things i wished to call him for abusing his access to the 2.net forums so he could dump a little more p**p on DH.

Hooch  

The man wishes for the death of another persons children
and I'm the bad guy here? That's classic. I make post showing
people what Die Hard is like and I get insulted and called
names. Gimme a break.

I didn't abuse any access to the SFC2.Net forums. I didn't
have to make an account. I didn't have to register. I didn't
have to log on. I didn't have to use a password. The post
was right there in the "General Forum" for anyone to see.

I stumbled upon the SFC2.Net forums because of a link
someone posted here for a thread there called "101 Uses
for SFC3". Speaking of that thread, let's share DH's answer
to that topic:

Die Hard: " #2 Proof the Dave Ferrel is a moron!"

I'm a little unclear on how this is a use for SFC3 but I think
people get the point.

Well, since you are already calling me names, I might as well
post the other two nuggets of DH wisdom that I came across.

In a thread titled "Another Shining Moment In Taldren's History"
with a survey asking if Dave has "lost it"

Die Hard:" I think my opinions on the pig-F'er are well known."

This doesn't sound to good, unless pig-F'er is a code word
for "swell dude".

The last example I found was probaly made when he was
banned the first time. Since he was under undo stress from
the experience we won't hold it against him but let's share it
any ways.

Die Hard: "David Ferrell is a real smuck. Not only has he
banned me 3 times what stuff that was really minor,
he's started deleting individual posts of mine.
He can kiss my tucus before I say I'm sorry and mean it.
I posted a half-hearted apology to this moron, but thats all
he's gonna get. Besides, HE CANNOT KEEP ME OUT!!!!!!!!!
MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Take care Mr. Hooch. Talk to you soon.
   

My goodness! What kind of folks inhabit the SFC2.Net forums? I can't believe that every one of them think this type of conduct is excusable. Do they? Becuase so far that's all I've seen in this thread is one excuse after another trying vainly to explain away, nay, justify some pretty sickening posts.

I just don't see it. N O T H I N G can justify and or be forgiven for what he wrote. For any one of you to campign for his reinstatement, in my opinion, does nothing to further the cause of others. Further more, as far as I'm concerned, it shows a total lack of moral courage on your parts not being able to condemn him and recognise that this community is not about what he represents. His comments, no matter what the context, are vile and disgusting to the extreme.

How any of you can support him in light of these revelations is beyond any undrestanding. Your repudiation of him and what he represents should soundly be stated. No if this then that balogney. Don't be sissies about it. What he wrote on more than on occasion makes me sure that he is in no way even worthy of your contempt, much less your help in getting his sick and twisted identity reinsated to these forums.

For someone to not soundly condemn this contemptous cur for his sick rantings leads me to believe that those who support him are of the same ilk and are hard pressed to distingush between civil and uncivil behavour.  Case in point--Hooch's unwarranted flaming of CD for enlightening us to the sick and twisted rantings in the fist place.

And back to my original question...

Do all the members of GFL and SFC2.NET support the tripe we've seen posted on their forums? Is this what they are about?

Hooch's post sure has lead me to think so.

Best,
Jerry  

[LongTooth]

While I do not agree with what diehard said both him and max have been banned twice
For putting down the programing of sfc3 they were banned once Why ban them twice ?
May be they should put down the ati programers no action was taken over that
Lets face it if you support sfc2 your classed as scum here its a taldren cast off and as for us they would realy like us
to dissapear

This is our only way to protest and thats what we are going to do
Any ways I sure some one at taldren is getting a kick out of this as they not locked the thread

 

[Julin Eurthyr]

Quote:


And back to my original question...

Do all the members of GFL and SFC2.NET support the tripe we've seen posted on their forums? Is this what they are about?

Hooch's post sure has lead me to think so.

Best,
Jerry  

As a member of SFC2Net's Forums:

I support the ability for someone to have an opposing viewpoint.
I support the ability to critisize an especially bug-filled and consistenly uncorrected issue.
I support civility, comadarie, and a communal place to discuss various issues about our games, the SFC series.

And I feel the majority of the other users of SFC2Net's forums feel the same way.

As a user of SFC2Net, My support of those administrators means I will support their decision on allowing Die Hard's posts to stand, despite any personal feelings I may have on that topic.  As a user of the Taldren forums, my support of their administrators means I will support their decision on banning the Taldren Three.  Given the proper reasons to do so, I will question decisions I do not agree with.  On this issue, those reasons have not materialized to my liking, therefore a lack of questioning from my part.  However, I do wish to see this resolved, one way or another.  Therefore, my continued support (via helping Hooch get his 5000 views), of seeking an answer to these questions.

[SSCF Hooch]

Quote:

Quote:
You kidding right? "Creep" was the least of the things i wished to call him for abusing his access to the 2.net forums so he could dump a little more p**p on DH.

Hooch  

The man wishes for the death of another persons children
and I'm the bad guy here? That's classic. I make post showing
people what Die Hard is like and I get insulted and called
names. Gimme a break.

I didn't abuse any access to the SFC2.Net forums. I didn't
have to make an account. I didn't have to register. I didn't
have to log on. I didn't have to use a password. The post
was right there in the "General Forum" for anyone to see.

I stumbled upon the SFC2.Net forums because of a link
someone posted here for a thread there called "101 Uses
for SFC3". Speaking of that thread, let's share DH's answer
to that topic:

Die Hard: " #2 Proof the Dave Ferrel is a moron!"

I'm a little unclear on how this is a use for SFC3 but I think
people get the point.

Well, since you are already calling me names, I might as well
post the other two nuggets of DH wisdom that I came across.

In a thread titled "Another Shining Moment In Taldren's History"
with a survey asking if Dave has "lost it"

Die Hard:" I think my opinions on the pig-F'er are well known."

This doesn't sound to good, unless pig-F'er is a code word
for "swell dude".

The last example I found was probaly made when he was
banned the first time. Since he was under undo stress from
the experience we won't hold it against him but let's share it
any ways.

Die Hard: "David Ferrell is a real smuck. Not only has he
banned me 3 times what stuff that was really minor,
he's started deleting individual posts of mine.
He can kiss my tucus before I say I'm sorry and mean it.
I posted a half-hearted apology to this moron, but thats all
he's gonna get. Besides, HE CANNOT KEEP ME OUT!!!!!!!!!
MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Take care Mr. Hooch. Talk to you soon.
   

The issue with me here is that you took the comment out of context, from another forum. Die Hards words were certainly way over the top and he should retract them and make public apology.

I will say say now to you I am sorry for bashing you and I will delete those posts. I was angry too and should have not said those things, again I am sorry.

Hooch

[C-Los]

BUUUUMMMMMMMPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GE-Raven]

OK before I start.  You are excited about getting more views than the SETI thread?  Why?  People always flock to a fight, and only those interested in helping us with SETI (contributing) go in there.  We probably have reached most of the people we ever will.  So congrats on your 5000 Views.  I am sure I could start a thread about SFC2 vs. SFC 3 and start off by calling Nanner an idiot (which I do not think he is, just an example) and let the flamefest ensue.  Now then on to your points.

I know of no one who has gotten a second chance.  It appears that their temporary amnesty was a mistake.  I also know that the member that was spewing hateful (non-family oreinted bile) anti-semetic language has also been banned.  Yes there were even those who protested his banning.  I am not one.

This board is offered as a service.  It is free, it has no rules besides what Taldren decides it has.  I, as an intellgent forum goer, have been able to figure them out.  

1.  Don't Troll  (too much)!

2.  Don't make a habit of profanity!

3.  If you are going to complain about the people who pay for this board, do so without wishing death upon their children!

4.  If you screw up to the point that you are banned.  Get over it.  Grow up and make a new name or leave.

Now you have no right to criticize Taldren on this.  Why?  Beacuse you only have the "rights" you have been given by them.  THEY OWN THIS PLACE!!!!  Now other than obscene amount of rudeness I think supporting this "crusade" to un-ban people that have obviously been banned for something they did.   I want to know why these three deserve such a second chance.  When (to my knowledge) no one else has been given this chance.  I for one fully support Taldren in their efforts to enforce a certain level of civility on their boards.  The OT area seems to be given a little more leeway as it is a place that passion runs a little hotter.  However, to post in the General forum, and tell the programmers of the company that their product sucks is just plain stupid.  What have you accomplished?

Now then... Do I like SFC 3?  Not really.  I had hoped for something different, but it is nice.  Certainly not the worst $50 I have ever spent.  I do weight that against SFC 1 and 2 and OP, some of the best software I have ever owned.  Was I upset about how it worked (sure) but I was encouraged by the open and honest way Taldren dealt with us (inspite of a dying publisher).  They have gone out of their way, time and time again, to make their game enjoyable for as many players as possible.  I like Taldren.  I find this tantrum being thrown distasteful (being polite) I hope you are sending Taldren a big Valentine thanking them for the ability to question their decisions on a board they are paying for.  But, I doubt it.  

If you wish to discuss SFC 3s problems their are all sorts of places here to do so.  However, I can think of no way that buying a game gives you any sort of "right" to question the running of a private board.  I (as most of us will) will look play sfc 3 again after the patch to see if I like it more.  If not, ok.  I will ask for, and hopefully get a game more like what I want next time.  If not that is O.K. too.  

Thanks Taldren for all your hard work!

GE-Raven

 

[J'inn]

Well it seems several would perfer Die Hrd not return.  Some would prefer that he be tarred and feathered.

The old:  The uncivil should be punished vs. Free Speech stuff.   Boring.

Curious:

What is everyone's opinion on Max Power?  Should he have been banned for being critical of SFC3?   If so, then there are a lot of people on Taldren's To- Be- Banned list now.   Should he be un-banned now?

Now I can understand that perhaps Max's statements (which in my opinion were scathing but hardly over the top) came at a delicate time.  Maybe, someone was having a bad day.  Maybe there was concern over the effect of bad PR at the time on sales.  <=== A valid concern IMHO.

I'm just curious here.  It seems the pro-banning lobby is focusing on Die Hard.  Obviously, he is the worst of the three offenders.  I'm sure he would even agree with that.  I doubt he would want his actions to effect the other two though.

So, let's see what we have to say about the one that did the least harm. Specifically, Max Power.  

Taldren deleted  one of my posts at the time too.  It was a silly joke about Taldren refusing to sell SFC3 to me because I sucked so bad.  I was very surprsied they deleted it because it was clean and in no way said anythiing bad about the game.  The only conclusion is when the game first came out there was a lot of concern regarding bad  PR effecting sales.  Makes sense to me actually.  However, now that the initial wave of sales is over Taldren has obviously lightened up.  Note: all of the people pissing off Dave but not getting banned.

As for me personally.  There are lots of things I wish people would not post on these boards.  None of which will cause me to lose any sleep though.   And yes, Die Hard has several posts he should delete.  But if he doesn't, I live.

SFC2.Net forums?  Yes, very liberal.  Everyone by now shoudl know that so it's not a problem.  When you don't have to worry about sales you can be that way.  

So, I would ask Taldren to let the three bad boys back in.   Max really did nothing wrong IMHO.  Likkerpig had a tantrum and recanted.   Die Hard . . . .  he's his own worst enemy.  He needs to remember that kids read these forums also.   Let him back in too.  Ban him for life if he ever says one thing un-civil.  

[KATChuutRitt]

It isn't really about second chances when the first chance was marred by an inappropriate banning now is it?

Yes Taldren has the right to do as they please, just as they have the right not to patch their games and leave their customers hanging.  I just don't think it is a good move from a customer relations point of view.  

 

Quote:
 it shows a total lack of moral courage on your parts not being able to condemn him and recognise that this community is not about what he represents
---ToastyO

Jerry,

I have respect for much of the stuff that I have see you post, but I disagee with this statement.  How is tanding up for one's belief about what we consider to be a wrongful banning a lack of moral courage?  Moral courage is the strength to stand up for what you believe is right, this we are doing despite the actions of the powers that be on this forum.  

I will agree that Die Hard is not doing himself any favors by his posting in anger, but that does nothing to justify the initial banning of him in the first place.  As I posted earlier, however I can understand how others, might not feel this way, and I leave you peacefully with your own opinion regarding this.  To attack us a "Moral Cowards" for standing up for our beliefs makes me wonder why you cannot do the same.  

To sum up, I don't mind your disagreeing, but do you really need to resort to name calling Jerry? Isn't this what you accused Die Hard of?  He post that David Ferrel is a moron, you post that we lack "moral courage" and are "sissies", there really isn't much difference here IMHO.

 I defended those who disagreed with me on this very issue just a few posts up, now I defend those who agree with me.  

[KATChuutRitt]

Quote:
Well it seems several would perfer Die Hrd not return.  Some would prefer that he be tarred and feathered.

The old:  The uncivil should be punished vs. Free Speech stuff.   Boring.

Curious:

What is everyone's opinion on Max Power?  Should he have been banned for being critical of SFC3?   If so, then there are a lot of people on Taldren's To- Be- Banned list now.   Should he be un-banned now?

Now I can understand that perhaps Max's statements (which in my opinion were scathing but hardly over the top) came at a delicate time.  Maybe, someone was having a bad day.  Maybe there was concern over the effect of bad PR at the time on sales.  <=== A valid concern IMHO.

I'm just curious here.  It seems the pro-banning lobby is focusing on Die Hard.  Obviously, he is the worst of the three offenders.  I'm sure he would even agree with that.  I doubt he would want his actions to effect the other two though.

So, let's see what we have to say about the one that did the least harm. Specifically, Max Power.  

Taldren deleted  one of my posts at the time too.  It was a silly joke about Taldren refusing to sell SFC3 to me because I sucked so bad.  I was very surprsied they deleted it because it was clean and in no way said anythiing bad about the game.  The only conclusion is when the game first came out there was a lot of concern regarding bad  PR effecting sales.  Makes sense to me actually.  However, now that the initial wave of sales is over Taldren has obviously lightened up.  Note: all of the people pissing off Dave but not getting banned.

As for me personally.  There are lots of things I wish people would not post on these boards.  None of which will cause me to lose any sleep though.   And yes, Die Hard has several posts he should delete.  But if he doesn't, I live.

SFC2.Net forums?  Yes, very liberal.  Everyone by now shoudl know that so it's not a problem.  When you don't have to worry about sales you can be that way.  

So, I would ask Taldren to let the three bad boys back in.   Max really did nothing wrong IMHO.  Likkerpig had a tantrum and recanted.   Die Hard . . . .  he's his own worst enemy.  He needs to remember that kids read these forums also.   Let him back in too.  Ban him for life if he ever says one thing un-civil.  

My sentiments exactly J'inn,

I think you might have expressed them better than I, but you know me and my moral causes and how they can get me worked up.   If I have come across as a morally over zealous crusader, I apologize to the community, I'm just trying to stand up for what I believe in in a strong manner, there is no intent to truly offend anyone.

[Kroma_BaSyl]

Yes, tar and feather Die Hard!!!

I for one am a sfc2.net regular and think that Die Hard shouldn't be un-banned until he apologizes for the OTT posts, deletes them and Dave feels like it. It is their forum after all and I'm all about civil liberties (e.g. right of private property holders). I actually have grown to like Die Hard and think that once you get past his approach he adds to the community, but he shouldn't expect to be welcomed into someone else's house if he is going to crap on them.

As for Max and likkerpig, let them back in, they have been contrite.

Kroma

PS, Now for my dirty little secrete.......noooo.....stop looking under there........I have been playing the single player campaign of SFC3 for the last week and....well.....enjoying myself.....I won't go blind will I?????    Don't know if it will have the multi-player legs that EaW has for me, but all in all, worth the $50 for the single player alone. Keep in mind that most people that purchase the game only do so for the single player anyway, it is us "die hards" that want the D3 to be so much more and will never be completely happy. For the average "kirk" taldren has created a fun game to wile away some time and IMHO a product worth my money.

[Karnak]

Quote:
Oh my,

Hooch, Karnak come over here so I can whop you both of your heads and knock some sense into yas.......

Hooch,    

 I agree tha CD took Die Hards post out of the proper time line.   But that is no reason to bash him for using the post to support his argument, that is his right, and we shouldn't get upset by it.    I just wish that the time frame be considered regarding this.

 As you said, with regard to that remark,  you do not condone it, neither do I, but like others have posted I understand the frustration he must feel at the initial banning.  If your boss fires you due to a misunderstanding, and you cuss him out for it, once he comes to realize he was mistaken in his initial assumption, he should still hire you back.  That why we continue to support Die Hard, although I feel he should delete that 1 remark (it really isn't kosher) as I posted long ago on that very thread.

I can understand Karnak's defense of CD, and I feel he was correct in this,  so dont get so upset by it. Whatever the cause the fact is the two of you got a little heated and started flaming, well stop it and get on with the purpose at hand.  Flame wars are not what we are here for.



Karnak,    

If you believe in the un-banning cause as you say you do, it is counterproductive to tell Hooch it is a "lost cause" as your post implied.  In this matter I support Hooch 100%.  A "lost cause" is worth fighting for when it is just (and not sure that it is a lost one myself).  Die Hard's continued anger over the banning is not unlike your own over the AOTK issues, but if you will kindly recall, I still went to bat for your return to the campaign as a valued player and community member despite your venomous responses after the incident of your removal as ARM.  Later you did admit to a certain unjustness,and render an apology about your negetive responses as I hope Die Hard will do if his situation is corrected.  I hope this may prove to be the case and that he will follow that example.  Some called the AOTK " Karnak situation"  a "lost cause" but it proved worth the effort, as you validated my efforts on your behalf.  So don't let it arise again.

I also ask you to remember that Fluf and I were  SFC2.net  RM and A/RM respectively, and we did our best towards you, so please do not direct criticism towards the SFC2.net RMs without considering this.

I agree in your defence of CD and his rights to disagree, but I think I detected some holdover venom from the AOTK issue, this likely triggered Hooch's response,  please let it drop.



Well, either 2 things can happen here, #1 you both give an apology for letting this misunderstanding become a minor Flame, and your heated words, and shake hands, or #2 you both start flaming me for playing peace broker or misunderstanding the issues at hand.  I hope you both are men enough to do the former without a "him first attitude".  If you can do this, I will hold you both in higher regard.  ...........

Now lets get on with it and Bump this sucker!!!!!

my 2 cents plus tax.........
 

Fact correction:  I resigned as ARM, and changed my mind 24 hours later,  but  that's neither here nor there.

I choose Option #1.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry:
Do all the members of GFL and SFC2.NET support the tripe we've seen posted on their forums? Is this what they are about?

Such vile DH posts in GFL forums would not be appreciated.  Frankly, GFL is the most civil forum that I have ever seen.  I certainly don't support DH's posts and told him at least twice in this thread with  the   icon to delete them.

 

[David Ferrell]

They were never un-banned.

They will not be coming back.

Any further threads of this sort will be deleted as a public nuisance.

Thanks,

Dave