Topic: @ Taldren; Any word on the official SFC3 patch!? (Read 22390 times)

Vysander · « **Reply #100 on:** June 16, 2003, 04:21:39 pm »

Sorry to have to turn up the flames a bit, but I haven't touched SFC 3 in... a couple months now.

Yes, a beta patch was released.. with a big warning saying that this isn't for dial up users. Well that excludes me.

Been waiting quite a long time for this patch... Be there a GaW or SFC4, i'm voting with my pocketbook. I'm not going to buy a Taldren (while under Activision, or probably anyone else) product again unless they manage to release a playable product that doesn't force a reboot of my computer every other battle, crashing single player about every 4th battle (the save button is my friend), and etc within a reasonable amount of time.

It's both the fault of Taldren and Activision for SFC3. It's a good game in concept, in execution it just blew. When a product doesn't deliver, it's the fault of all involved. Period. The 4th (counting OP) iteration of SFC is just like the rest of them, buggy. I should have learned my lesson around the 2nd time, but I am an SFB fan and was hoping for a good and STABLE game that delivers all that is promised on the box at least one of these tries (before patch.... heck, even after patch). I understand that games are released to literally hundreds of different computer configs, but for crying out loud, there's an abundance of cutting edge games out there that run decently! (admittedly there's another pile of junk games that don't deliver. Taldren seems to be throwing their games in this pile). I can't say that my rig really does deviate far from the 'optimal gaming machine', it's reasonably high end, STANDARD/POPULAR equipment with nothing funky done with the OS/Hardware/anything.

This thing was released over 8 months ago... Barely worked for me ~5 months ago, still barely works for me now. (definition of barely working is less than 1 hour of playing before something cops out)

This is ridiculous, i'm not enough of a fanboy to keep waiting and looking at this forum every week or so. I've waited long enough. I give up. You win Taldren, you got my 40 bucks (well.. times 4). Your cd's have turned into expensive coasters.

Vysander, Out.

Edit: *sigh* used wrong word, all fixed now

Captain KoraH · « **Reply #101 on:** June 16, 2003, 06:54:29 pm »

I have to respectfully dissagree with Toasty on one point. I will happily stand on the shoulders of giants and tell them that I would improve upon their game if only they would release their source code. Why not? How could Taldren see that statement to mean anything other than that I want to improve on something they made? I must have a special love for their game if I want to improve it instead of playing everquest or any of the 1000 other games out there. I consider myself a die-hard Taldren fan, and I'll be the first one to mod the game if they release the code to the community. To do anything otherwise would be un-fan-like.

Erik Bethke · « **Reply #102 on:** June 17, 2003, 12:39:53 am »

Hello All,

We have continually worked on patching SFC3 since Novemember, as you know from receiving the beta patch(es) earlier.

Recently we have gone through and did a big sweep of the remaining gameplay issues in SFC3 and have the D3 performance issues remaining. These are tougher bugs and issues and it looks like it is going to take us a good portion of the summer to finish these items up.

In the meantime Activision has received our patch updates and is on top of the project.

Thank you for your patience,
-Erik

Strafer · « **Reply #103 on:** June 17, 2003, 12:01:15 pm »

Quote:

...and it looks like it is going to take us a good portion of the summer to finish these items up.

Most of summer?
Eeek.
Hope it's at least enjoyable in the process.

G'luck!

Trickster · « **Reply #104 on:** June 17, 2003, 12:29:50 pm »

I don't think it is anyone's fault. Ok, so some decisions may not have been the right one's in the opinion of some people.

I doubt anyone here has made a game like Activision or Taldren, let alone completley bugless. It is easy as a customer to lay the blame on someone else, much harder to try and address these problems as a developer/publisher with how game development/support works. I don't know anything about it, I am sure it is a lot more complicated then altering a text file and calling it 'bug fixed'.

Even if the patch addressed everything that has been reported there will still be some bugs that don't get fixed or are created with new hardware/software releases. Also there will always be someone out there that isn't happy with certain aspects of the game.

Once the patch is released I am sure many will be happy with it, of course there will be those that are not. The same happens with other games and game companies as well.

quircus · « **Reply #105 on:** June 17, 2003, 01:26:23 pm »

Lets just think for a minute.

Taldren released a beta patch a few mionths after the game was launched (correct me if im wrong). This is OK, however, Activision pulled their one-patch policy into this game too.

After Activision spotted a few problems with the pacth, it was hauled back to the drawing board. It took a couple of months to then make a BETA patch, which demostrates there are still problems with it.

What I dont get is: Why do Activision have a one-patch policy??

If they didnt, then a patch (1.1) could have been released, and every few months a new patch could replace that and be better until we get to the point where there are no or few bugs left (as in EAW - which went from 2002 to 2035 fro Christ's sake!!) The one-patch policy sucks and it doesnt increase their popularity either. Why have they failed to see this??

Opinions welcome,

Quircus.

starwolf3500 · « **Reply #106 on:** June 17, 2003, 02:30:08 pm »

What source code? We don't have source code. We don't need no stinkin' source code...

I hope I don't come across as unkind, but I can't help but ask you a question or two; if you're such a seasoned programmer/producer/developer that you could accomplish better (in your humble opinion) why aren't you:
1.) Answering Taldren's help wanted ad?
2.) Raising the money;developing a like game;contacting Harry Lang to negotiate a licsense agreement...ect, then getting to it developing and distributing your vision of a cool Trek sim?

Or, would you rather stand of the shoulders of giants and tell the giants that you could do better than the giants if only the giants would give you their source code?

I don't mean this as flame, but it may come across as one none the less. My apologies if it does.

Best,
Jerry

I'm glad to see someone else thinking like I do. As stated multiple times in these forums, Taldren would have been more than happy to release multiple patches to fix issues IF THEY WERE ALLOWED TO. Also, I know that OP was buggy. I know that they have been promising a patch but, one question...

WHO'S PAYING THEM TO DO THESE PATCHES NOW?

God knows that they aren't making any revenue off of EaW or OP. Heck, in todays world of "take it or leave it" customer service, it amazed me to see any new patches being developed for OP AT ALL. I do agree with KoraH however, it would be nice for modders such as himself (and Pelican for instance) to be able to change as much as they liked but I understand the issues between Taldren and Activision. In other words, due to contractual stipulations, ACTIVISION OWNS THE CODE and I don't think they are going to chance giving it up to anybody that can get ideas on how to do something (big corporations are paranoid like that). I don't think that Taldren would mind a limited release of the source code, (didn't they do that already once to Khromag((I think was his name))?) maybe for a one time "licensing fee".

In the final analysis, if you can do it better, WHY HAVEN'T YOU?!?!?

Dogmatix! · « **Reply #109 on:** June 17, 2003, 04:58:07 pm »

I pretty much left SFC3 behind last January, after playing it relatively heavily for a few months. I got tired of waiting for the public release patch and I wasn't interested in applying a beta patch. Maybe when the game is done I'll give some consideration to installing it on my latest system (already has OP and EAW, both of which I still avidly play, even now).

Good luck with the bug squashing, Erik!

TheSatyr · « **Reply #110 on:** June 18, 2003, 01:36:10 am »

For those wondering on why it takes so long for patches to come out for SFC OP & 3 keep this in mind. David Ferrel is the one doing the fixing...with whatever help he can get from other Taldrenites...while they are all in the process of working on Black9.

Some people play golf in their spare time...Dave plays with patches...so cut them a little slack. It's not like there is this big team doing the patches...just a couple of people...when they have the time.

As for how they are paying for the patches,I would assume they got their advance for Black9...and are putting some of that money into the patches.

Jester_OC · « **Reply #111 on:** June 18, 2003, 03:27:34 am »

Overall SFc3 was pretty clean. Yes it has/had bugs. Most games do. And we worked on a patch for SFC3 right after it shipped (before even).

.
.
.

I had written a details list of stuff we got hosed on, but I changed my mind. Just remember that patch Taldren Leaked out, we were out of time and being ignored, it was desparate and it seemed at the time to wake Activision up, but of course how long has it been since then? Now B9 is taking up most of Taldrens time. I have heard that Scott did some optimizations to the ship update code that freed up some major bandwidth. I have no idea if Activision is even looking at it (Don't read into that one, I don't work at Taldren anymore so I am out of the loop on recent stuff.) But I know that they had not been allocating QA for SFc3 Taldren for a long time. Who knows if they will.

Jester_OC

Toasty0 · « **Reply #112 on:** June 18, 2003, 06:27:07 am »

Dang, dude, where'd you head to?

Best,
Jerry

Jester_OC · « **Reply #113 on:** June 18, 2003, 12:40:36 pm »

I jumped out of the gaming business. Now working on thermal imaging stuff. It was great, but I have a growing family and it took way too much out of their time. Aside from the time, stress due to milestones and people who bag on every flaw in the game (which I really feel bad about and hoped a patch would have been out long ago.) it is a great gig. Working with cool people, and creating something fun to play is pretty good fun, but it can be HELL on relationships and other aspects of life.

Jester_OC (Marc Hertogh)

TheSatyr · « **Reply #115 on:** June 18, 2003, 08:46:11 pm »

Marc,you KNOW the Taldren Beta testers are better than any QA people Activision could throw on a patch.

We knew what to look for...they didn't.

Taldren is better off just letting us do all the testing.

Jester_OC · « **Reply #116 on:** June 19, 2003, 12:14:23 am »

Yea the Inner Circle always had the best bug reports especially balance and gameplay issues. It felt like Activision QA did not understand our game. For the most part they were competent, but we had a couple of guys who had a tendency to tack on different bugs onto other bug reports. That is how many of the biggest bugs got through. Interplay had always had a few guys (usually the leaders) who understood the game. Overall I liked working with Interplays QA team better, maybe if we talked more to the Activision folks it would have worked better, unfortunately we had only the bug database as a form of communication.

Jester_OC

ragamer · « **Reply #117 on:** June 19, 2003, 09:59:18 am »

Each time I read some topic where some1 questions Taldren products' quality I really get stunned by
the degree of patience/devotion that some fans have. This one is no exception... of course

I really even wonder what a BUG means in this forums... Here is some of the most common ways for
a fan to excuse the developers BUGS:

- "It's impossible to release a perfect bug-free software because PC world is too heterogenous". If you analyze
bugs in SFC series they appear in most of the PCs... With the remarkable exception, seems like, of the Beta Testers
comps :-?

- "The publisher have forced Taldren to release the game prematurely". Yeah... they have used guns as "negotiation
technique" when signing the contract with Taldren.

- "Some BUGS are expected to appear because the depth and degree of complexity of this simmulation". BUGS...
by definition, are NEVER expected to appear... If you plan a high complexity software... Then invest some more time
in the design phase or scale complexity down to the skill of your team.

Don't be fooled by my sarcasm... I like SFC concept and Taldren's fan support but I think that SFC series is well
below software standard quality... and It really hurts me seeing the devotion and personal effort that some Devs
have invested in this faulty products. Why?... Because I have been in similar situations in my work also...
Truly Deadends: To have promised a release date... To have A LOT OF real GOOD ideas... To believe in a project
because you are a FAN of it... And 2 weeks before the deadline you realize that your initial estimation was totally
wrong because your excitation and optimistic feelings were obscuring your mind when calculating the ammount of
man-effort days needed to complete your objectives.

I wonder what SFCs could have been developed if Mr. Ferrel had allowed a NON-FAN person to act as the project
coordinator... some1 foreign to SFC world to add some objectivity to it.

...Just another demoralized fan

P.S. As always, please, excuse my barbaric english.

Sorok · « **Reply #118 on:** June 19, 2003, 12:45:03 pm »

I feel your pain man.

Maybe we should make our own SFC tite, called "SFC4 - The demoralization" , then we could compete directly with Taldren on the next release. Naaaa. Taldren would probably be waaayyy better at developing a title like that.

News:

Topic: @ Taldren; Any word on the official SFC3 patch!? (Read 22390 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Vysander

Captain KoraH

Erik Bethke

Strafer

Trickster

quircus

starwolf3500

Trickster

xCLAVEx

Dogmatix!

TheSatyr

Jester_OC

Toasty0

Jester_OC

Dogmatix!

TheSatyr

Jester_OC

ragamer

Sorok

Trickster

Topic: @ Taldren; Any word on the official SFC3 patch!? (Read 22390 times)