Topic: Vote for the Titan  (Read 5084 times)

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ModelsPlease

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2004, 04:29:22 pm »
Quote:

I agree...the Excelsior-B would make a good Titan...
Or better yet, the Excelsior-B that LC Amaral put out (can be found at Darkmatrix's Site)  




IMHO LC Amaral's B looks more Sovie then Excelsior-ish.But this is a fun debate.Does anyone know the Federations exact ship losses (total) to the Borg and during the Dominion War ?
-MP
 

sandman69247

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2004, 08:31:58 pm »
Well, I kinda like the look of the new and improved Connie on the USSMIRANDA site...a classic, proven design re-done to modern standards. That to me would be a deciding factor for Riker to take the ship. I mean, let's face it, he's always been kinda arrogant, and the idea of making history in a easily recognizable ship would appeal to him. But, that's just my 2 cents worth.  

ModelsPlease

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2004, 03:53:16 am »
I like that design too......and it is absolutely a feesible ship for that era.Oh BTW I found the stats I wanted...........

Daystrom Institute


Prior to first contact with the Dominion, Starfleets total production for all major ship classes stood at one hundred ships per year, allowing them to maintain a total fleet of almost 8,000 capital ships3 - a capital ship in this case being defined as any vessel capable of sustained independent operation. With the loss of the USS Odyssey at the end of 2370,4 the Federation began a series of dramatic and highly secret preparations. The president ordered Starfleet to halt all planned retirements and increase ship production to the maximum possible level; by the outbreak of the war three years later Starship production was up to three hundred ships per year and the standing fleet was at 8,726 ships. The onset of the war allowed the president to openly make ship production a top priority, and by the end of the first year of war a further 370 ships had been built. The second and final year of fighting saw 402 further vessels put into service. Production was almost entirely based around the more combat capable vessels, with production of heavily science-biased ships such as the Nova class cut back almost to nothing. Various measures were also taken to increase the combat capability of vessels already in service, resulting in a significant increase in Starfleets war fighting capabilities.

Unfortunately, the Dominion war took a heavy toll on Starfleet,5 far exceeding vessel production. The first three months of war alone cost nearly a thousand capital ships, leading many analysts to claim that the hostilities could not possibly be maintained for more than twenty eight months before it simply ran out of ships. Indeed, this was regarded by many to be an optimistic estimate since Starfleets ability to mount serious opposition to the Dominion would surely fall as its numbers reduced.

While ships losses continued to greatly exceed production throughout the war, those first three months proved to be the low point. The re-taking of Deep Space Nine is hailed as preventing any further Dominion reinforcements arriving via the wormhole, but that operation also led to the first major defeat suffered by a Dominion warfleet.6 The Romulan entry into the war just a few months later complicated matters for the Dominion,7 while the allied offensive into Dominion space shortly afterwards marked a major shift of initiative towards the allies.8

Nevertheless, the loss rate remained above 220 per month for most of the remainder of the two year war. When hostilities ceased Starfleet had lost a total of 5,800 capital ships, nearly 60% of the total operated during the period. Fatalities totalled 1.6 million personnel, not including those lost on starbases or in ground combat. The post-war fleet numbers only 4,116 ships, and although ship production is highly unlikely to remain at its wartime level it is probable that it will continue at a higher than normal rate until the fleet has returned to something approaching normality.

   


There are many who regard the Dominion war as the greatest disaster ever to befall the Federation. But while it cannot be disputed that the loss of life has been little short of disastrous, the unswerving dedication and self-sacrifice with which Starfleet and its allies faced - and, ultimately, defeated - their foe has gained the admiration of the entire quadrant. Throughout its history the fact that Starfleet not only regards its military role as a relatively minor one but is positively proud of this fact has led many to suggest that it is somehow weak, even soft. This is a criticism that has seldom been heard since the start of the Dominion war, even from the Federations traditional opponents.

With the end of the war Starfleet has already begun shifting its dispositions to a peacetime basis. While it is likely that several of the larger combat fleets will be retained for at least the next year or two as a deterrent to further hostilities, many ships are being transferred back to their more normal roles. The diplomatic mission especially is likely to take up much of Starfleets time over the next few years. During the war the Federation was desperate to make as many alliances as possible in an attempt to gain reinforcements against the Dominion. Such a hurried and haphazard process has already resulted in some severe strains, even leading to one major political scandal within the Federation itself.

Despite the many pressing concerns of the present, Starfleet is unlikely to forget that its main goal is to ensure the future. Ultimately the Federation must continue with its scientific and exploratory missions if it to remain the vibrant and active culture it has always been. Starfleet is the principle instrument of this process, and as such it will surely continue to prosecute to the fullest the mandate outlined in the motto of its most famous vessel - "to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life forms and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before".

References
# Series Season Source Comment
1   Star Trek The Next Generation Technical Manual  
2   Star Trek Deep Space Nine Technical Manual  
3   Generic official information  
4 DS9 2 The Jem'Hadar  
5 DS9 6 A Time to Stand  
6 DS9 6 Sacrifice of Angels  
7 DS9 6 In the Pale Moonlight  
8 DS9 6 Tears of the Prophets  
9 DS9 3 The Search, Part 1  
10   The Search for Spock  
11   Star Trek Deep Space Nine Technical Manual, Page 140



SO refitting existing ships would arguably be prudent to replenish the number of ships in the fleet.This was just the War,I haven't tallied the loses to the Borg yet,40 more right off the top for Wolf 359 .
-MP
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

ModelsPlease

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2004, 08:19:18 am »
Ok so far From  8,000 ( 7,877 actual #) ships the Feds were down to  4,116 - 39 to the Borg at Wolf359= 4077

The second Borg attack on the Federation came in 2373. A single cube again attempted to reach Earth and assimilate its population.1 By this time Starfleet had been building up its forces in the core of the Federation for several years in response to the Romulan, Borg and Dominion threats; five hundred Starships met the Borg ship at the Typhon sector1 and fought a four day running battle all the way to Earth. Starfleet managed to inflict significant damage on the cube's outer hull, but the Borg inflicted massive losses on the fleet in the process.1 By the time the cube reached Earth some three hundred and twenty ships had been lost, most of them with all hands.
The Enterprise-E arrived at the battle, in violation of orders, as the Borg entered orbit. Captain Picard was able to use his knowledge of the borg to locate a weak point on the hull, and by concentrating the firepower of the few remaining ships on that spot the cube was successfully destroyed. However, the Borg launched a spherical escape pod of some kind as the cube was destroyed, and this ship generated a temporal vortex in order to go into the past and assimilate Earth there. The sphere attacked the launch site of Zephram Cochrane's warp ship, damaging the vessel and killing many of the support staff. They hoped that this would prevent First Contact between the Humans and Vulcans, thus preventing the creation of the Federation. The Enterprise followed the sphere through the vortex and destroyed it, although a group of Borg transported to the Starship and almost assimilated the ship. Eventually the Enterprise crew where successful in both overcoming this attack and correcting the damage done to the past.1


  4077-320=3757

So after all is said and done this is what's left

 Class      /      Type                            /     Number Left

Akira          /       FBCH                            /         134
Ambassador /   *(Enhanced) FDN          /           31                                                     /  *Upgrade/Refit
Centaur   /           FFF                              /         303
Challanger    /      FCL                             /             9
Cheyenne     /    *(Enhanced)FCA          /            30                                                     /  *Upgrade/Refit
Constellation  /   *(Obsolete)FCA            /             5                                                       / *Retired
Defiant  /            Escort                           /            26
Excelsior/           *(Standard)FBCH         /          192                                                      / *Excelsior style
Excelsior /         *(Variant 1)FBCH          /           58                                                       /*1701-B subtype
Excelsior /         *(Variant 2)FBCH         /              1                                                     /  *Lakota Enhanced combat subtype
Freedom  /          FCA                             /           14
Galaxy   /            *(Basic)FDN                 /            14                                                      / *Ent-D
Galaxy   /            *(Uprated)FDN              /            25                                                     / *Refit
Griffin    /            FDD                               /              6
Intrepid  /            FCL                               /            35
MIranda  /           *(Enhanced)FDD           /           353                                                      / *Refit
Nebula  /            *(Basic)FBCH               /             47
Nebula  /            *(Basic with Pod)         /             23
Nebula  /            *(Uprated with Pod)      /             23                                                       /*Refit
NewOrleans /     FFF                               /              98
Niagra /               Fast FCA                    /                92
Norway  /           *(Enhanced)FDD        /                 68
Nova  /                FFF      /                                       17
Oberth  /             FFF     /                                   1,137
Olympic   /           FCL   /                                          21
Polaris   /             FFF   /                                          14
Prometheus /       FCL   /                                            1
Raider /              *FFF    /                                          150                   / *Specification for Gamma Type Assault Craft
Raven  /               FFF  /                                           118
Rigel   /                 FCA  /                                            14
Saber  /                FFF  /                                           152
Shelley   /             FCA  /                                            83
Sovereign  /         *(Basic)FDN  /                                  3                                                   / *Ent-E
Sovereign /          *(Uprated)  /                                     5                                                    /*Nemesis refit
Springfield  /         FFF   /                                            12
Steamrunner /      FCL   /                                          160
Trident /                FCL   /                                             5
Yeager /               FCL    /                                             3

There it is....7,877 - 4,394 (Destroyed / Retired) = 3,483

IMHO there's plenty of room in the Fleet for refits and new ships.
 
-MP

             

olbuzzard

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2004, 08:42:47 pm »
great research there bud !!!

looks like there should be plenty of room !

Magnum357

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2004, 09:27:45 pm »
ModelsPlease brings up some very good points here.  Although the Daystrom Institute website is not Cannon, everyone here agrees that the website itself tries too base itself as close as possible too the shows.  I think it is safe too say that the numbers DI has thown around do make a lot of sense.  

With roughly 40% of Starfleets ships left, ModelsPleases theory that many older designed ships (example, Excelcior Class) might be the only hulls available for certain type of missions.  Even the Daystom Institute indcates the Soverigns are the most powerful ships in Starfleet right now, and even then, the Sov's where a crash war program started in the 2340's.  Some people on this website indicate that the Titan is a New and more advanced ship then the Sovs.  Their might be a design on the drawing boards, the an actual vessel could take a couple of decades too be fully designed and Produced.  We already know that the Galaxy class took 20 years too get the class into full production.  Since the Sovs where designed around the same time period as the Galaxies, its possible the Sovs took some time too build too.  Even in Starfleet Battles, the Klingons B-10's took a good 10 too 15 years too build and they where only able too build 4 of them.  

I still like my suggestion of the Hyrbrid Galaxy ship, but the total reconfiguration of an Excelcior might a more plausable theory after all.  But if the Titan is something like this, I'm not so sure about the model on this thread.  No offense too the modeler, but I'm not all that hot on this Refited excelcior design.  

On a final note, some one suggested a Norway could be the Titan.  This is very possible since Will and Diana both got married and might have wanted too serve aboard a ship that is involved in a lot more peaceful misions then a combat/Explorer vessel like the Ent-E.

ModelsPlease

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2004, 05:14:18 am »
Thank you all, I love this forum,basically because of things like this.Great ideas,discussions,debates and theories.A simple question sparks a great model. If there's a gap in Trek history,with a little debate,and some Azel drawings,you people find a way to fill it in.


Thank you OlBuzzard sir for taking on modeling choice #4  

 USS Titan
 

Look for my next thread with my ideas and some more cool research for the Post War Federation Fleet.With the amount of talented people here it should be a fantastic debate and maybe,if we are lucky,some new cool ships.
 
-MP

 
« Last Edit: April 02, 2004, 11:06:35 pm by ModelsPlease »

Kaenyne

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2004, 08:14:59 am »
Yes, thank you Olbuzzard!

This is great news! This version of the Titan is a magnificent vessel.

nx_adam_1701

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2004, 12:54:58 pm »
Maybe so but I would send a Norway to the neutral zone for peace talks, starfleet has never done that before, but it could be, but i doubt it, Will said that was his next and probably temp missions for a while, alot of talk but they usually send vessel that are capable to take warbirds down, not  a norway


adam out

nx_adam_1701

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2004, 12:56:53 pm »
great things are yet to come

i sense it

adam out

ActiveX

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #50 on: April 01, 2004, 02:25:37 pm »
Number 1 gets Number 1

nx_adam_1701

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2004, 08:15:40 pm »
thats right

olbuzzard

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #52 on: April 02, 2004, 10:00:44 pm »
Quote:


Thank you OlBuzzard sir for taking on modeling choice #4 the USS Titan.
   




....  Well   ...  I'm not as good as Azel  ( been about 30+ years since we've put pecil on paper like this....)  heheh  can you say R U S T Y ??  

In order to get the proportions correct from the 3 drawings it was necessary to do a little cut/paste and resize  ( Primary hull needs to be larger .... still needs a bit of work)  ..  Add this to the debate mix ( Input appreciated )

thanks

« Last Edit: April 02, 2004, 10:20:43 pm by olbuzzard »

ModelsPlease

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #53 on: April 03, 2004, 12:28:19 am »
Great concept OlBuzzard sir,it looks like it would be right at home flying next to Azels Ent G,very future Trek-ish.
 
-MP  

Magnum357

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #54 on: April 03, 2004, 02:42:20 pm »
I don't know guys... looks like something out of Batman in my opinion.  Nice design, just not my style I guess.  

olbuzzard

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #55 on: April 03, 2004, 02:58:45 pm »
Quote:

I don't know guys... looks like something out of Batman in my opinion.  Nice design, just not my style I guess.    




 

so noted ...  I really hadn't quite thought about it like that ...  but I can see why you might think of it that way.   For what ever it's worth I appreciate the input..  and your honesty.  Even if it does sting a bit.  But ...  then again if I going to make some sort of contribution that is actually worth while I have got to start some where.  


Thanks bud !!!


BTW...  I have already started using some "E" series  B&W  textures to redo that hull.  Some of it will still be used  (more like just the out lines of it ...  tne rest will be TNG textures.

SovereignEmpire

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #56 on: April 03, 2004, 04:43:45 pm »
I love Wicked Zombie/Azel's Titan class the best.  The Sovereign/Galaxy combination is awesome.  The other designs though are a little too advanced looking for the era.  The tripple deflector dishes dont appeal to me much either.  I wonder if Frakes would be interested in starting a new Trek show that has the voyages of the Titan?  

Kaenyne

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #57 on: April 06, 2004, 10:44:59 am »
Bump!

Rat_Boy

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2004, 11:03:16 am »
I picked #4.  There should be a semi-official design from the book people next year sometime as they start their post-Nemesis Riker series.

E_Look

  • Guest
Re: Vote for the Titan
« Reply #59 on: April 06, 2004, 11:04:32 am »
olbuzzard,

Nuthin' rong wit Batman designs.  Tuff starships oughtta be dark 'n' scary lookin'.

And privately, over the years, I've always kind of held this against Federation designs- they look really nice, and that's the problem.  I think they should be ugly in an "Aliens" or "Psycho" kind of way, as they are warships (fuggedaboud the explorer stuff... leave that for the cute Oberth class ships or whatever, but the Kirk, Picard type stuff should be bristling with weapons, mean looks, and a legion of Marines armed to the teeth, so they can more efficiently help the little commercial shuttles cross from one planet to the other in their solar systems safely when the light turns green).

Stick more megaphasers and quantums on your design!!