Topic: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points  (Read 21197 times)

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Offline Scottish Andy

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Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« on: February 08, 2007, 10:03:54 am »
I am having a real hard time understanding joints and HP/DPs in Milkshape.

I can move them around and assign them to vertices, but I don't understand why I cannot delete any of the existing joints, or why there are so many of them.

I only assuming that they are the points where the weapons and effects like tractor beams will come from, as well as the areas of the ship where the damage patterns will be applied to, but I actually know none of these things.

It's called the "skeleton" of the model as well, so there's the further assumption that it has something to do with the bones of the model, but are they only the literally the joints? The points at which the "action" (as described above) takes place in?

Could someone help me out in understanding these things, and intruct me on hw to manipulate/create/delete them?
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Offline Rod ONeal

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2007, 01:48:47 am »
I wish that I could tell you which type was exactly what, but to my knowledge noone's actually figured it out. I believe that Atheorhaven asked once on the Taldren boards to have them defined, but no one from Taldren ever responded. (This is an old memory, it might not have been Atheorhaven, but I seem to recall that it was. Maybe he'll let us know if my memory is failing me here. :huh:)
HP, These are easy. They are the spots that the weapons fire from.  They'll be labeled HP1. HP2, etc... All of the others are different types of damage points. They're the spots where the plasma streams from, the "flare" on the hull occurs when a weapon hits. Where the electrical discharge across the hull comes from, etc... I usually put them in locations where I'd like to see these type of effects occur. It'd be nice, I suppose, if one of us would actually decipher exactly what each one does. (Or if someone knows, please tell?)

To delete them, hi lite/select one and hit "Delete" on your keyboard.

In other games they'd be the joints on the characters. Remember that milkshape was designed as a halflife model editor, not to make models for SFC. They were "adapted" to be used as HPs and DPs.
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intermech

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2007, 07:55:40 am »
Hardpoints are made as dummy objects on the ship. If you do not use hardpoints, all weapons fire will come from and hit the center of the ship. You don't "need" them to play the model in game.

As O'Neal said, for SFCIII HP1 through HP24 are where the weapons fire origninates. HP1 through HP11 are for primary weapons (phasers), and HP12 through HP24 are for heavy weapons. The primary and heavy weapons designations are reversed for SFC, SFCII, and SFCOP. To get a good idea of where to put the hardpoints, you will want to consider the archs listed in the defaultCore file. Of course you want to to place theses on your ship where you can see the phaser strips and photon tubes.

Hardpoints A1, A2, . . . . F2, F3 are where your ship will be hit with weapons fire. I think that it was Atheorhaven that once posted how to properly place these on a model. They should be ordered starting from the bow and working counter clockwise around the ship toward the port then to the stern then starboard and back to the bow.

Bow Port: A1, A2, A3
Along the Port side: B1, B2, B3
Stern Port: C1, C2, C3
Stern Starboard: D1, D2, D3
Along the Starboard side: E1, E2, E3
Bow Starboard: F1, F2, F3

This order tells the game which side is which to make weapon routing more realistic. So, if an enemy ship is on the port side of your ship, it will always fire and hit the closest of the "B" series. If it is to the aft of your ship it will hit the closest of the "C" or "D" series.

In terms of application, you do NOT need to assign any vertexes or meshes to any of the hardpoints (or joints as Milkshape calls them). You do not need to have them connected either (like you do in Armada). To ensure that they are not connected, make sure that no other hardpoint (joint) is selected when you make a new one.

Also, consider that the Milkshape *.mod exporter flips the mesh and the hardpoints, so, you either have to build the hardpoints on the opposite side, or with the hardpoints showing, select all and then use the mirror all tool before exporting.

Because I usually just use loadouts from stock ships, I cheat by importing a stock game model for the loadout I am planning to use, deleting the stock mesh, and then merging my new ship. That way I am sure that the hardpoints will be on the correct side and that I have not missed any.

Offline atheorhaven

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2007, 09:09:58 am »
I wish that I could tell you which type was exactly what, but to my knowledge noone's actually figured it out. I believe that Atheorhaven asked once on the Taldren boards to have them defined, but no one from Taldren ever responded. (This is an old memory, it might not have been Atheorhaven, but I seem to recall that it was. Maybe he'll let us know if my memory is failing me here. :huh:)

No, that was me.. :)

I think that by now, I'll have to believe that I'm not going to get a response from Taldren.. ;)
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intermech

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2007, 10:15:36 am »
It is strange how the damage particle effects come out of the weapons hardpoints. I was actually trying to figure out this morning where the tractor beam and shuttles come from, I think those come from the weapon hardpoints too.

Offline atheorhaven

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2007, 10:40:44 am »
It is strange how the damage particle effects come out of the weapons hardpoints. I was actually trying to figure out this morning where the tractor beam and shuttles come from, I think those come from the weapon hardpoints too.

If I remember, from SFC 1 and SFC 2, I think it was hardpoint 7 or 13.. moving that seemed to move the launch point.. but I could just be blowing smoke.. :p
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Offline Rod ONeal

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2007, 02:54:16 pm »
The tractor beam, adds, mauler, and PPD just come from the center of the ship. Now, I've never modded for SFC3 and I'm not too sure that IM's explaination for the "lettered" HPs applies to SFC2 or not. It very well might. If so though then what does anyone know what determines where the plasma vents from, where the elctrical charges arc from? Is it also tied into the same HPs and is only determined by what side the fire comes from?
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intermech

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2007, 03:19:16 pm »
As far as what I have observed in all SFC versions, plasma vents and electrical charges come from and jump between the weapon hardpoints (HPXX), not the lettered hardpoints. In my opinion, it would have been better if those damage effects came from the lettered damage hardpoints. As far as the lettered hardpoints working the same in SFCII and SFCIII, I am pretty sure they do. Anyone else have any input or seen anything to the contrary?

Offline Scottish Andy

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2007, 11:39:15 pm »
A very big "thank you" to all who contributed, especially ISM who gave me the specific gen on Milkshape. I put in my hardpoints and played her in game, and they all came from where they were supposed to come from.

Thank you all so very much! It may be quite sad of me to say so, but it was literally thrilling to watch all my work come to life like that!
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Offline Rod ONeal

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2007, 01:53:24 am »
Well, this was a good thread. I like it when I learn something new about the "nuts & bolts" of the game. ...and yeap, it's pretty cool to see your own stuff come to life, so to speak, in game. I can only imagine what it's like for someone who has made enough models to replace everything (or almost everything) with your own work. It must be pretty cool!
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Offline Scottish Andy

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2007, 11:01:14 am »
Maybe we could get the mod to Sticky this thread as a tutorial?
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Offline Scottish Andy

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2007, 11:10:23 am »
Atheorhaven, I tried playing around with the shuttle launch hardpoint, but alas no luck. Hardpoint 13 is definitely for phasers as they only start at 11 as ISM stated. I tried moving hardpoint 7 but it still came from the centrepoint. I realised I actually had no shuttlebay doors on my ship so I put one in at the "usual" spot for TNG ships (the crew shouldn't be too broken up over the loss of the large aft lounge, what with all the other lounges in the bridge superstructure). When I moved hardpoint 7 to the new shuttlebay, it still appeared under the saucer, in front of the torpedo launcher.

Plus, using the Excelsior UI, I see that Hardpoint 7 is used there as the aft photons. I'll play around with the hardpoints and damage points some (I have an Idea that the aft damage point c3 or d1 might be the launch point), and I'll let you all (all y'all) know of the results of my footering.

Once again, thanks to all for sharing your knowledge! I am most sincerely grateful. oh, I think I'll bump up all your kudos +5. I have no idea how that stuff works, never paid attention to it, but I see people +1-ing their pals, so...  ;D

Update: Ah, seems I can only +1 once every 12 hours. Weird. Oh well.
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2007, 11:17:13 am »
I'll be along in a bit to try and clear up the front here for you guys, as soon as I figure out Bonks method there in the consolidated thread.

Stephen
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intermech

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2007, 12:50:30 pm »
It looks like all he did was to put a link in the consolidated thread to the respective thread.

The consolidated is just a thread with a bunch of links.

intermech

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2007, 03:09:59 pm »
I would be in favor of doing away with the "WIP" and "final product" sub boards because that is pretty much the jist of the whole SFC Models forum. Then, you could make "resources" and "permissions" subboards.

Offline Centurus

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2007, 03:18:29 pm »
A little bit of information when hardpointing for SFC3.  And take it from me, I know how to hardpoint SFC3. 

Since ships in SFC3 rely on the DefaultCore and Defaultloadout for not only the firing arcs, but also the various systems, it is literally possible to have more than 11 primary or secondary weapons.  Unfortunately, due to the fact that the SFC3 game code was never truly completed, hardpoint number 25 will never work.  You only have 24 viable hardpoints.

When hardpointing your model in 3DS Max or MS3D, just position the hardpoints where you please, making sure to write down their approximate location and what kind of weapon they'll be used for, such as phasers and torpedoes.  Just make a note on a piece of paper.

When writing up the specs for the ship in the Defaultcore, just list all the primary hardpoint arcs as you normally would.  An example to this can be found at SFC3Files.com with the Galaxy EVO.  She has 17 phaser hardpoints, and 7 torpedo hardpoints.

In the Scifi-Wars mod that Puterz did, they had ships in there that were pure phaser boats.  I suppose they took a page from my book. 
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Offline atheorhaven

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2007, 05:00:57 pm »
I actually like the idea of a tutorial sub-board, with maybe phasing out the finished and WIP subboards (and placing their contents into the main Models board.  But then again, with the Taldren board, everything was all together in one board.. you know, back before rocks were formed (in Internet time)..

Guess that if I remember that, that makes me a First One..  woohoo!  :D
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Offline Rod ONeal

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2007, 06:55:01 pm »
I like a tutorial and a resources  child-board, if someone has the time to set it up. Possibly just rename the wip and finished boards and move the stuff in there out to the main modeling board.
Put up a sticky warning people that it's going to happen giving a week or 2 notice.
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Offline Centurus

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2007, 08:05:15 pm »
Oh, in response to an earlier post, in SFC3, plasma vents from the damage points, not weapons hardpoints.  :-D
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2007, 08:47:17 pm »
I'll ask Frey about it over the weekend, and see what we can do for you guys.

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2007, 01:24:11 pm »
I would be in favor of doing away with the "WIP" and "final product" sub boards because that is pretty much the jist of the whole SFC Models forum. Then, you could make "resources" and "permissions" subboards.

I definitely second that motion!

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Offline Panzergranate

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2007, 10:53:02 am »
There are actually seperate damage hard points for venting plasma, explosions, etc. as well as the weapons hard points.

I spend ages putting these all in on my own and downloaded models I want to use that have hard points omitted.

It is very laborious but adds that final polished shine to a model, seeing it fire from the correct location on the hull.

The tractor beam location cannot be set but always eminates from the exact centre of the shield hex shape. Kind of annoying as I'd like to position this correctly on some ships.

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Offline Panzergranate

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2007, 05:00:34 pm »
I've managed to discover that the 6 x RDPOINTS in SFC 1 models control the 6 x tractor beam emission points.

The 2 x SPP maybe control wher the shield hex centres and the other where the shield bubble, for showing deflected hits, centres.

I managed to move the tractor emitters on a model in SFC1 whch intriqued me as I thought that they were fixed.

 
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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2007, 11:03:30 pm »
I've managed to discover that the 6 x RDPOINTS in SFC 1 models control the 6 x tractor beam emission points.

The 2 x SPP maybe control wher the shield hex centres and the other where the shield bubble, for showing deflected hits, centres.

I managed to move the tractor emitters on a model in SFC1 whch intriqued me as I thought that they were fixed.

 

NEAT! can such a thing be done on SFC 2 or 3 models?
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Offline Panzergranate

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2007, 01:12:47 pm »
I've no idea!!

Be kind of handy if  there was though. I was using the good old, "wonder what this does??" method of discovery.

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2007, 01:59:35 pm »
I've no idea!!

Be kind of handy if  there was though. I was using the good old, "wonder what this does??" method of discovery.



Wonderous. obviously it could be very useful. Good find, man. Keep it up.
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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2007, 07:06:14 pm »
I made an Acrobat PDF file tutorial back in the EAW - OP days that explained how to apply textures in Max and it also had the explanations for the weapons hardpoints and damage points.  I still have the file but no place to host it currently.  IIRC it is about a 10meg sized file.

As to the tractor points in SFC1 I would have to look into that.  It is possible that the code is still in OP but they just did away with the model points as "not really neccessary".  One way to see if the tractor points work would be to add the same dummy labels to a SFC2/OP model and see if they get used.


Offline Panzergranate

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2007, 01:15:19 pm »
Some of the hardpoints do have some strange names in SFC 1 and going through them, when putting in the weapons mounts and damage points, does make me wonder what they actually do.

I know that the hardpoints in SFC 1 and later versions are different. To convert a SFC 2 or later model to SFC 1, it just needs to be copied and pasted onto an existing SFC 1 model, the original SFC 1 model deleted, all their the texture appropriately renamed to suit SFC 1 labels and set up all the hardpoints to suit. It takes about half-an-hour to do.

ON some models, it will issue an "Above 88 Textures" warning in the model's folder when run, but this is to warn that the model will slow up the game, which will be noticeable with a few similar models in the game.

Anything with over 7,000 polys will  have SFC 1 struggling.

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Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2007, 03:55:14 am »
If anyone is interested I managed to changed the HP for planets for SFC1 and SFC2. Yup I actually got them moved  ;). I can send anyone who wants it the .MOD or .NIF or 3D etc..... if anyone is interested in it. I forget now because it was so long ago but someone here at the forums had requested it.

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Offline Panzergranate

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2007, 11:15:29 am »
Could do with a few planets with citu lights on the dark sides.

Maybe a moon or asteroid with the same as with the view of "Asteropolis" behind the USS Marshall in Rich Steinbeck's "Space Flight Chronology.

I'll have a play with the hardpoints on a few planets.

Is there any way off correcting or adding the collision sphere to asteroids or planets. I downloaded a planet pack and some had wrongly set collison spheres, in that the ship had to disappear into the planet before impact occured.

I'm sure the system used in SFC is hardpoint related and might be a function of some of the hardpoints that list up that no one seems to know what function they are supposed to have.

I haven't started to experiment with the hardpoints on planets or asteroids yet.

I wish that there was a list of exactly what some of the bizare hardpoint listings actually do.

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Offline Red_Sharif

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2007, 02:18:48 pm »
I've noticed that some of the planets, especially the gas giants, are displayed in the game as having been offset upwards so that their bottom axis is on the same plane as the ship model.

Is there anything I can do to correct that?

Offline Panzergranate

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2007, 07:12:19 pm »
Great that some show light on the dark side, as some planets imply being inhabited on a large scale.

I us some of you planets as I was fed up of the same standard collection of Earth and the other Sol system bodies in every scenario.

Definately well needed!!

 
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Offline Panzergranate

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2007, 12:39:42 pm »
Make sure that some run in SFC 1.

I wonder is SFC 4, if it ever appears,  will allow moving weather systems..... now there would be something!! :o

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Offline Red_Sharif

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2007, 06:12:17 pm »
Make sure that some run in SFC 1.

I wonder is SFC 4, if it ever appears,  will allow moving weather systems..... now there would be something!! :o



Personally, my wish list for SFC4 would be: Andromedans, Neo-Tholians, and the return of the 'legendary officer'. A stronger game engine would be nice, but don't mess with the mechanics of SFC:OP. If I could have that, I'd be a happy camper.

Offline Panzergranate

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2007, 06:35:15 pm »
The maps being a cube instead of a flat square, 3D movement and firing arcs, ships arriving into a scenario from Warp, gravity effects fromplanets and stars, and the ability to add in weapons tables (new weapons) into the game engine.

Above all more of the intricacies that were missed out from SFB rules, such as scout ship functions and better cloaking stelth for the Romulans and Klingons (hey, the ships totally invisible but the enemy can still see my "marker flag" giving me away if they look in the oposite direction!!).

Troop landings on planets (these were just dies roles per turn to represent the ground battles. First to run out of people lost!!)

SFC 4 should be SFB in 3D!!

The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2007, 07:25:42 pm »
Dream on McDuff on any new SFC.  SFC3 was half done at best and pushed thru.  Supposedly there was going to be a source release at some point and the community would have fixed and opened up much of the problems you are bringing up. Alas the Quicksilver part is where the biggest problem is (that is the huge compressed file with all the game info).  As there has been no way to mod THAT file, there will be no way to do much else.

SFB4 is just a pipe dream. 

Offline Panzergranate

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2007, 10:42:20 pm »
SFC 3 is based more on ADBs new Commander board game than SFB, unfortunately.

Would Legacy have sucked if there hadn't have been SFC for it to be found wanting against??

We have Legacy here on X-BOX 360. I've never played it, having watched my son playing it and thinking that it is just a pretty 3D starship dogfighting game full  of howling and grating inaccuracies, but that's just my oppinion.

If I wanted 3D dogfights I'd go and play Red Baron 3 online, which is the best and most challenging of the prop job dogfighting games even online.

For all we know, they're secretly beavering away at SFC  4 as I type this, having maybe learnt from the SFC 3 experience.

Why did they rudh out SFC 3 early in the first place?? There wasn't any competition to SFC OP so why??

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Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2007, 01:17:35 am »
Quote
Why did they rush out SFC 3 early in the first place?? There wasn't any competition to SFC OP so why??

It was a TMP based game. We the community added all the other eras to SFC1 and SFC 2 EAW/OP. SO...... enter SFC III with it's TNG designs.

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Offline GotAFarmYet?

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2007, 12:31:07 am »
SFC 3 is based more on ADBs new Commander board game than SFB, unfortunately.

More so on BC prbably as well as Armada. Allot of the mods that have been worked on address this but it still seems to be a 2D shooter that just did not have the charm for me as well

Would Legacy have sucked if there hadn't have been SFC for it to be found wanting against??

It would have been compared to BC at that point and BC was by far better that SFC 3

We have Legacy here on X-BOX 360. I've never played it, having watched my son playing it and thinking that it is just a pretty 3D starship dogfighting game full  of howling and grating inaccuracies, but that's just my oppinion.

add pretty close to accurate too, it will be up to their community to customize the game and complete it. They have the ppl they need there is the developers will help support some of it.

For all we know, they're secretly beavering away at SFC  4 as I type this, having maybe learnt from the SFC 3 experience.

Nope Activision and paramou nt had a falling out of sorts like Interplay did

Why did they rudh out SFC 3 early in the first place?? There wasn't any competition to SFC OP so why??

Cost
It was costing the publishing company money having ppl work on it and dead lines that were set had been missed not by much but by enough.
Companies are basically three groups:
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Engineers; that build the product that was request as close as they can based on the bean counters giving them the time and money
Bean Counters; these are the ones that run everything based on profit margines. They control costs by cutting things down to a minimum necessary.

When it came clear that the profit might be less than the costs if they game got released after X-mas, they cut their loses by having the game released incomplete but working. Part of that profit went into a patch to fix it to a minimum and then took what they had left to other avenues.
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Offline Panzergranate

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2007, 09:13:47 am »
Activision is one of the oldest games software companies going.

I have a game upstairs, that my brother bought in 1977.

It is an old E2PROM cartridge for a Radofin 1296 games console. This us what Atari copied for their carrtridge game system a few years later.

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Offline Rod ONeal

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2007, 01:33:53 pm »
IIRC SFC3 was released to coincide with "Nemesis"? Finished or not, it had to come out when it did. Taldren would have gladly continued to patch it, just as they did with the other SFC titles, and get it to be a much better game, but Activision's "1 patch policy" wouldn't allow them to do so.

I think it could've ended up a much better game if Taldren was allowed to keep going with it. Too bad!
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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2008, 04:02:01 pm »
Yeah, SFC III was released to be the "big movie game" for Nemesis...
IIRC, there was even a sticker on the box promoting Nemesis

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Offline Centurus

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2008, 04:45:34 pm »

SFC 4 should be SFB in 3D!!


Na.  While I wouldn't mind an SFC4 being more challenging as OP is, I actually liked the fact that SFC3 wasn't based on SFB as much as previous versions were.  Gave the game more flexibility, and that flexibility is what allowed the gave to survive as long as it did, considering the odds against it from the beginning.  That's why the mods were so fun to play.  In my opinion, SFC shouldn't be as much of a carbon copy of SFB as possible. 

If SFC4 were made, more races, more systems and weapons, more missions, better graphics engine, native joystick/gamepad support for 3D flight, make it multi era and allow older ships the capability to be refitted with newer tech as it becomes outdated or standardized in the fleet for modern starships.

Also, have it so that when you take on critical missions, the outcome can have a more noticeable effect on the entire map in terms of race relations, political alliances, etc., and also taking part in some classic Trek storylines would be nice.

Oh, and most importantly, larger player support!!!  6 player skirmishes isn't enough.  Granted, it's fine if there's only 6 or less of you, but have a code limit of 10 or 12 players per skirmish/mission. 
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Offline Panzergranate

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2008, 04:59:56 pm »
I discovered something interedting about SFC 1 last week!!

Try this out....

Assign a ship, any ship, to Mirak in the shiplist instread of Federation, Klingon, etc.

Of course, if you've downloaded the whole SFB Kzinti fleet models like me you'll have tagged all these as Mirak in the SFBSPC13.TXT shiplist file already.

Go to FMSE and write a scenario script with one side as Mirak (Kzinti) with the ship or ships you changed.

Fire up SFC 1 and run the scenario. Guess what, it runs the Mirak as a race.

If you try this with ISC , Jindarins or any other SFB race not in SFC 1 it will not work. For some reason SFC 1 was going to have the Mirak in it and still recognises it as a valid race tag despite it never using the race in the end.

As the MIrak (Kzinti) are the toughest of opponents to face in SFB (think of a SSCS taking on a fleet single handed and winning) it is a sad loss that Taldren decided to not include them in the end. However, the valid race link does exist for them in the software.

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2008, 07:11:55 pm »
Oh, and most importantly, larger player support!!!  6 player skirmishes isn't enough.  Granted, it's fine if there's only 6 or less of you, but have a code limit of 10 or 12 players per skirmish/mission. 

I actually would like to see up to 10 or 12 per side, that way if you wanted to fly combat missions for a campaign that you run on the side you can have a whole fleet that is human controlled on each side (not three people who can fly three ships each, as the ai flies to many ships that way).

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Offline Panzergranate

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Re: Joints, Hardpoints and Damage Points
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2008, 05:47:39 pm »
Allow the planetary (ground) actions of landed troops as in SFB which would make campaigns more interesting.

It would allow SFB style invasions with the problem of landing, reinforcing and supporting landed troops (or preventing the enemy from doing so) whilst attempting to gain or maintain space superiourity.

I've seen such intence battles at wargames conventions in the past and it puts a whole new dimension into the SFB game battles. Lyrans are the best equiped for invasion and assault type scenarios with the Troop Lander Pallet (well armed).

The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!