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#### Norsehound

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##### Trek 11 Enterprise
« on: November 11, 2008, 06:04:04 pm »
Looks like it's finally shown it's face...

:\

#### GotAFarmYet?

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2008, 06:26:00 pm »
And if that is it...
Then its a pitty too. So many ships that I have seen on Sci-fi Meshes and elsewhere look so much better. That secondary hull is just wrong for a TOS or Pre-TOS era.
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#### Wicked Zombie

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2008, 06:32:34 pm »
If this is legit, I'm hoping this is the result of some Romulan sneezing into the time portal and not meant to be "the" Enterprise, pre-pre-pre-refit. If that's the case, they could've just slapped a new coat of paint to the original and saved us all the effort of rolling our eyes.

The ship itself looks shiny and there are design elements I like but as the Big-E flying through space, pissing off the Klingons? No.
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#### Norsehound

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2008, 06:37:39 pm »
The source is here, for whatever it's worth.

Not too impressed with the design either. Looks like they're trying to convey 'Retro' across the board, from interior design to the final shape of the big E.

#### Chrystoff

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2008, 06:55:24 pm »
Oh brother. Why, oh, why do these non-Trek fans keep getting put in charge of Trek projects? It always leads directly to some idiot taking liberties that they shouldn't. This new ship (I refuse to call it Enterprise, because it doesn't deserve the name) is a joke. They clearly tried to meld TOS & TMP into one ship. The bridge set is pathetic, the uniforms are sad copies of the originals. The actors (with the exception of Urban, Pegg, and Bana) are simply too young, or young looking. It all looks like a cartoon. I don't know why I feel insulted by what I'm seeing, it's really not a big deal, yet I do. I suppose I need to chill out.

#### Atolm-Rising

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2008, 07:14:37 pm »
Works fer me

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2008, 07:15:43 pm »
Altho there are a few traits I like about this ship, the guy who did this design needs to be shot for being aesthetically deaf.
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#### Norsehound

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2008, 07:54:02 pm »
I think the biggest issue I take with the design is the secondary hull's position in relation to everything else.

The nacelle connections look like they happen right at the end of the Secondary Hull cylinder, letting the excess jut out ahead of the ship's neck. If they moved these back some, I don't think I'd feel as odd about the design as I do now.

Maybe they did it for shock value with the fans? Ah well.

#### Centurus

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2008, 08:04:43 pm »
Well, that's it.  We Trek fans had a good run.  I'm just so sad to see them murder Trek like this.

We can always revolt.  Storm Paramount Pictures and take hostages or do something.
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#### dragoon

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2008, 08:52:12 pm »
Maybe by saying this, i'll get classed as a "non-fan", but I really like this design.
Everything i've seen of this film gives me tingles of excitement, and seeing the new E, just ups that feeling even more.

I think she is a real beauty, and I look forward to seeing the new trailer this weekend. Sadly, because the UK has already had the release of the new Bond, I don't think i'll see this trailer on the big screen, Unless of course they put the trailer as a lead in to Zak and Miri make porno.

I hope someone on these forums choose to make a model of this ship soon.
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#### Kreeargh

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2008, 10:01:59 pm »
I like it  I see it being a good target for some Romulans and all that is left is the saucer for the Tos series refit.
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#### EmeraldEdge

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2008, 10:53:24 pm »
Do the textures on the saucer section seem not to quite match those on the secondary hull, as if it was a kitbash of some sort, and they didn't adjust the textures?  I have to say I'm not a fan of this look, and just when I was startin' to get a little excitement goin' for the series.  oh, well.

#### GotAFarmYet?

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2008, 11:39:23 pm »
All I know is that I will not eat anything before going into the theater, except maybe a bottle of Tums' anti-acid tablets. Because when this comes arcoss the big screen I am sure the other ppl in the audience will appericate it.
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#### Centurus

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2008, 12:00:29 am »
I like it  I see it being a good target for some Romulans and all that is left is the saucer for the Tos series refit.

You know what??  You're right.
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#### Centurus

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2008, 12:00:59 am »
Maybe by saying this, i'll get classed as a "non-fan", but I really like this design.
Everything i've seen of this film gives me tingles of excitement, and seeing the new E, just ups that feeling even more.

I think she is a real beauty, and I look forward to seeing the new trailer this weekend. Sadly, because the UK has already had the release of the new Bond, I don't think i'll see this trailer on the big screen, Unless of course they put the trailer as a lead in to Zak and Miri make porno.

I hope someone on these forums choose to make a model of this ship soon.

I think you just lost your Star Trek Fan badge.
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#### TheHalfMonte

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2008, 12:56:12 am »
I can understand folks disliking the obvious continuity disconnect portrayed by the design, but I'm a little irked with folks who form the bad movie presumption daisy chain solely on aesthetics. Reeks too much of the folks who expected an epic fail from Daniel Craig as Bond on the basis of his hair color, I guess.

That said, I admit that the fan community (particularly Gabe Koerner) has produced visions that are not only more to my liking, but make better sense for the time period, reboot or not. Though I've taken the line that the TOS aesthetic ought to adopt a cruder, more industrial character to reflect the human race's relative newness to shipbuilding, I've also never bought the extent to which the TOS Enterprise transformed into her TMP dubs. I've always felt that there was a step or two missing, and some of the elements of this ship satisfy this opinion. Yet I'm little perturbed by the inexplicable lack of grace demonstrated by the whole collaboration. Romantically nor functionally beautiful, it's just there in this particular shot. And I don't want the Enterprise to evoke such an indifferent response from me.

#### Rod ONeal

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2008, 02:56:16 am »
Those nacelles look like they're off of a '57 Oldsmobile.
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#### FA Frey XC

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2008, 05:02:02 am »
I can understand folks disliking the obvious continuity disconnect portrayed by the design, but I'm a little irked with folks who form the bad movie presumption daisy chain solely on aesthetics. Reeks too much of the folks who expected an epic fail from Daniel Craig as Bond on the basis of his hair color, I guess.

That said, I admit that the fan community (particularly Gabe Koerner) has produced visions that are not only more to my liking, but make better sense for the time period, reboot or not. Though I've taken the line that the TOS aesthetic ought to adopt a cruder, more industrial character to reflect the human race's relative newness to shipbuilding, I've also never bought the extent to which the TOS Enterprise transformed into her TMP dubs. I've always felt that there was a step or two missing, and some of the elements of this ship satisfy this opinion. Yet I'm little perturbed by the inexplicable lack of grace demonstrated by the whole collaboration. Romantically nor functionally beautiful, it's just there in this particular shot. And I don't want the Enterprise to evoke such an indifferent response from me.

The "upgrade" from the TOS Constitution class Enterprise wasn't just an upgrade... it was a complete overhaul. Big E had been in space some 20 years by that time (4 5 years, yes?), and the technical manuals specifically state that almost everything, besides the main load bearing members and hull frames were replaced and expanded.

The Constitution was the workhorse of a Federation just coming out of a war with the Romulans. The Enteprise class of TMP was the drafting of the latest and greatest onto a design frame 20 years + old.

While I am actually pretty okay with the casting and what-not, this design does irk me. It's just doesn't *look* right.

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#### Don Karnage

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2008, 06:00:30 am »
wtf is that?

they call it enterprise or constitution class?

the one who made it and those who approve it should be send to the moon.

this scrap is not the original enterprise, the NX-01 was better looking that this ship, and they could have made it white instead of chrome.

#### FoaS_XC

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2008, 09:24:22 am »
Okay, I don't like it, but I'm going to try something new that maybe you other fans don't quite get...

I'M NOT GONNA JUDGE UNTIL I SEE THE MOVIE! -___-... everyone is so ready to crucify jj abrams because of 4 spoiler images... my god people, doesn't this SOUND insane?!?

First off, I think JJ Abrams is a brave man for even attempting it. Star Trek fans are so picky and particular. They are NEVER happy. No matter what you do, you will chased by a mob with torches. Second, Trek fans don't seem to understand ARTISTIC LICENSE It's a new director. radical, maybe, but still, let him at least try. When nick myers came on after TMP to do TWoK, look at how different it was, and it worked out well. Third, its been 40 years since someone has touched the TOS era, of COURSE they are going to update it. Fourth, stop preventing people from sacrificing consistancy and accuracy and continuity for a good story. Arthur Conan Doyle wrote all sorts of sherlock holmes stories and there were GLARING inconsistancies... WHO CARES... does this stop it from being a good story?

and those are my problems with the average trekkie... Trekkies/Trekkers make me embarrassed to be a Star Trek Fan....
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#### Starforce2

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2008, 09:27:48 am »
Do the textures on the saucer section seem not to quite match those on the secondary hull, as if it was a kitbash of some sort, and they didn't adjust the textures?  I have to say I'm not a fan of this look, and just when I was startin' to get a little excitement goin' for the series.  oh, well.

It looks like a friggen kitbash of the 1701-A saucer. Someone needs to be hung for this...

#### FoaS_XC

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2008, 10:14:21 am »
Okay, I don't like it, but I'm going to try something new that maybe you other fans don't quite get...

I'M NOT GONNA JUDGE UNTIL I SEE THE MOVIE! -___-... everyone is so ready to crucify jj abrams because of 4 spoiler images... my god people, doesn't this SOUND insane?!?

First off, I think JJ Abrams is a brave man for even attempting it. Star Trek fans are so picky and particular. They are NEVER happy. No matter what you do, you will chased by a mob with torches. Second, Trek fans don't seem to understand ARTISTIC LICENSE It's a new director. radical, maybe, but still, let him at least try. When nick myers came on after TMP to do TWoK, look at how different it was, and it worked out well. Third, its been 40 years since someone has touched the TOS era, of COURSE they are going to update it. Fourth, stop preventing people from sacrificing consistancy and accuracy and continuity for a good story. Arthur Conan Doyle wrote all sorts of sherlock holmes stories and there were GLARING inconsistancies... WHO CARES... does this stop it from being a good story?

and those are my problems with the average trekkie... Trekkies/Trekkers make me embarrassed to be a Star Trek Fan....

[SNIP] Someone needs to be hung for this...

-sigh- my case and point made manifest.
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#### Centurus

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2008, 10:27:02 am »
I could deal with the new bridge sets.  Did I like them, not really, but I could deal with them.

The uniforms, I liked them.  They remind me of how Bryan Singer changed and revamped the Superman costume for Superman Returns, but not to the same degree.  The uniforms for the new movie were more simple in change, tasteful.  Noticeable, but tasteful.

Spock showing more primal emotion, as indicated in one of the stills from the movie, is actually pretty good.  He's half human, and on top of that all of Trek lore establishes that Vulcans do have emotions but choose to suppress them.  And there is also indication that Vulcans actually have more powerful emotions than humans.  So having Spock show those emotions is somewhat a risque movie, but probably a wise one.  In the original pilot, you see Spock acting more like his crewmates, as opposed to the opposite which became the standard of how he presented himself.

But the ship and how drastically they changed it, that's a pill that will prove nearly impossible, if not truly impossible, to swallow.  More than likely, yes, it'll kill the film before it even opens.

Just certain things you don't change to a large degree, and the TOS Enterprise is one of them.
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#### Lieutenant_Q

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2008, 10:54:29 am »
You know, three years ago, when they came out with the new BSG, I was livid.  BSG might not have been a top-of the line program, but it had a large following, and many of the old fans felt screwed by what Ronald Moore did.  I remember saying back then, if you let them do this to a second rate program, whats to stop them from doing it to Star Trek?  The response I got from almost everyone, was, "They wouldn't dare do that to Star Trek."

Well, they did.

As badly as they butchered the original premise of BSG, I really hope they didn't go that far in ST:XI, but its not looking hopeful.

Unlike the new BSG, however, I am NOT giving this any more of a chance.  Some of you may see that as narrow minded, but I refuse to pay to see this, I'm not letting them say, "yeah, it sucked, but look at how much money we made in the box office, just goes to show you that Trek fans will watch anything with the Trek name on it."  As Picard said, "the line must be drawn..."  I'm choosing to draw it here.
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#### FoaS_XC

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2008, 11:04:50 am »
[SNIP] As Picard said, "the line must be drawn..."  I'm choosing to draw it here.

Oh dear god. It's a movie, not king and country or a way of life.
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#### Centurus

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2008, 11:05:17 am »
You know, three years ago, when they came out with the new BSG, I was livid.  BSG might not have been a top-of the line program, but it had a large following, and many of the old fans felt screwed by what Ronald Moore did.  I remember saying back then, if you let them do this to a second rate program, whats to stop them from doing it to Star Trek?  The response I got from almost everyone, was, "They wouldn't dare do that to Star Trek."

Well, they did.

As badly as they butchered the original premise of BSG, I really hope they didn't go that far in ST:XI, but its not looking hopeful.

Unlike the new BSG, however, I am NOT giving this any more of a chance.  Some of you may see that as narrow minded, but I refuse to pay to see this, I'm not letting them say, "yeah, it sucked, but look at how much money we made in the box office, just goes to show you that Trek fans will watch anything with the Trek name on it."  As Picard said, "the line must be drawn..."  I'm choosing to draw it here.

I personally never saw the original or the reimagined BSG, so I cannot comment on it, and will take your word for it.

You know, I saw Of Gods And Men again a little over a month ago when it was shown in a theater over in Beverly Hills, and most of the cast and crew where there.  Hell, I was sitting several chairs away from Nichelle Nichols, and Walter Koening was pacing back and forth behind me throughout the last half of the film.

The CGI effects weren't the best, but you can tell that all the minds behind the project spent a great deal of time to try and stay true to Trek, while still giving us a new story to enjoy.
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#### Lieutenant_Q

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2008, 11:20:27 am »
Okay, I don't like it, but I'm going to try something new that maybe you other fans don't quite get...

I'M NOT GONNA JUDGE UNTIL I SEE THE MOVIE! -___-... everyone is so ready to crucify jj abrams because of 4 spoiler images... my god people, doesn't this SOUND insane?!?

First off, I think JJ Abrams is a brave man for even attempting it. Star Trek fans are so picky and particular. They are NEVER happy. No matter what you do, you will chased by a mob with torches. Second, Trek fans don't seem to understand ARTISTIC LICENSE It's a new director. radical, maybe, but still, let him at least try. When nick myers came on after TMP to do TWoK, look at how different it was, and it worked out well. Third, its been 40 years since someone has touched the TOS era, of COURSE they are going to update it. Fourth, stop preventing people from sacrificing consistancy and accuracy and continuity for a good story. Arthur Conan Doyle wrote all sorts of sherlock holmes stories and there were GLARING inconsistancies... WHO CARES... does this stop it from being a good story?

and those are my problems with the average trekkie... Trekkies/Trekkers make me embarrassed to be a Star Trek Fan....

The main issue with this statement is that there really was little difference between TMP and TWOK.  There was supposed to be five years between the two movies, and really TWOK brought the main screen a little bit closer to SFB, which really wasn't a bad thing, since a lot of the Star Trek Following at the time were SFB fans.

It doesn't sound insane at all, its a logical and rational response to radical changes made to something that has dominated much of our lives.  Even if you're the type of fan who has only seen every episode once, and every movie, once.  You have spent a full month (comes out to about 31.4 days) of your life watching Star Trek, I really doubt that many of us here have seen each episode and movie only once.  That's not even counting the time we have spent in Trek inspired games.  I would say, conservatively, I have spent nearly two years of my life, watching, playing, writing, or even play acting, Star Trek.  And I'm only 28, I wasn't old enough to see the originals in their heyday.  I wasn't old enough to watch the originals on re-runs through the 70s.  I really wasn't even old enough to watch the first couple of seasons of TNG when they first aired.
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#### TAnimaL

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2008, 11:51:03 am »
Quote

...really TWOK brought the main screen a little bit closer to SFB, which really wasn't a bad thing, since a lot of the Star Trek Following at the time were SFB fans.
Quote

I'd have to respectfully but vehemently  disagree on THAT - SFB fans have always been sub-sub-section of Trekkies, and as a fan since '69 and a SFB player since '80, I've often been dismayed at the version of Trek that the people at ADB have (I won't give them another dime, and haven't since 2000 - that's why I play SFC). But back to this thread...

#### MajorRacal

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #98 on: November 19, 2008, 03:06:35 pm »
If you consider that the Borg have been repeatedly defeated by the crew of a single starship, it undermines the notion that they are such an insurmountable threat that fleets and civilisations should simply fall before them - so I have enough onscreen evidence to question the merit of such a philisophical deviation (which ultimately contradicts Roddenberry's desire to pull away from the militarism of the TMP movies and the FASA material those movies inspired.)  As for other conflicts - it is inferred there have been quite a few within Federation history, yet the Federation ethos doesn't appear to alter drastically to compensate as a result of those.

I may be wrong, but as far as I'm aware, Abrahms hasn't claimed or denied that STXI is a reboot - that term seems to have come from elsewhere, probably a fan site - what he did say was that this was an attempt to bring the character of the original series to the current generation with an eye to make it feel more real.  As for Abrahms, as a writer, he is perfectly entitled to interpret what has been before to help deliver his story and his vision.  That is a fundament of the right to freedom of expression and artistic licence (a notion that should be more readily appreciated within a modelling board/modding community than it currently appears to be).  Star Trek may be something we all enjoy (and likely for many divergent reasons), but in the end, it is a platform for someone to tell us a story that will hopefully entertain us.  No platform for telling fiction is immutable - indeed, the entertainment industry takes grotesque liberties when dealling with real life events, usually without so much as a whisper of complaint.  As a media consumer, you are entitled not to appreciate his vision, but you can't legitimately dismiss it without taking the time to examine it for yourself thereby making a fully informed judgement.

As for his take on Superman, I have never seen anything relating to it, so cannot pass comment, and truth be told, Superman doesn't hold much fascination for me anyway (I quite like Smallville, but I've never been a fan of the comics, and I haven't enjoyed any of the films after Superman II).

Incidentally, I'd describe myself as more of a "Star Wars Child" - as a child of the time, it was far more engaging to me than stories like "Who Mourns for Adonais", "And the Children Shall Lead" or the omelette terror "Operation: Annihilate", that doesn't mean I don't like or can never trully appreciate Trek (or Doctor Who, or Farscape, or Blake's 7, or Space 1999... or any of the other sci-fi and telefantasy shows that fill my very extensive and ever expanding DVD collection and wish list).

Going back to the model of the Enterprise - it is recognisably a Federation hull - it has all the same basic components as the other Enterprises, so the community abreaction feels completely disprportionate to me.  She may not win many beauty contests, but depending on your aestheic preferences, the same can be said for all the other versions out there and even those fanships people have suggested as preferable alternatives.  In case anyone's actually interested, the TMP version is still my favourite.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 03:27:15 pm by MajorRacal »

#### OlBuzzard

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #99 on: November 19, 2008, 04:20:21 pm »
It warms my heart to see that picture.

I couldn't agree more.

i have supported ideas (such as the NX-01) that was developed because it did at least favor a precursor to the NCC-1701 TOS.  Unless they find a way to redo this monstrosity to resemble some thing like the ship on the right  (IMHO is 10 times a better concept than the trash on the right) ...   Paramount is about to distance themselves from a LOT of folks.

Kinda sad really.  To have waited so long .. only to see this.

BTW...  I totally understand their "rights" to make things change as they so desire .. it is after all the ownership and "rights" as such to do so.  I had hoped for a little more respect for the Roddenberrys work.
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#### MajorRacal

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« Reply #100 on: November 19, 2008, 06:14:17 pm »
Some more notions to consider... TOS is not entirely Roddenberry's own work... it was the contribution of other artists that made it work when it worked.  The movies are a form of "reboot" and steer quite far from Roddenberry's expressed view of what the Trek universe should be.  Roddenberry's vision is inconsistent, and he essentially used TNG as a platform to "reboot" the entire franchise, and even with that, TNG really only grabbed mainstream success  after others gained control.  He may be the Great Bird of the Galaxy, but Roddenberry himself, has also been the focus of fan displeasure and vitriol for his treatment of the original material, but if he could move on and disregard the past of his own creation, why can't everyone else?

#### OlBuzzard

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #101 on: November 19, 2008, 06:37:26 pm »
Some more notions to consider... TOS is not entirely Roddenberry's own work... it was the contribution of other artists that made it work when it worked.  The movies are a form of "reboot" and steer quite far from Roddenberry's expressed view of what the Trek universe should be.  Roddenberry's vision is inconsistent, and he essentially used TNG as a platform to "reboot" the entire franchise, and even with that, TNG really only grabbed mainstream success  after others gained control.  He may be the Great Bird of the Galaxy, but Roddenberry himself, has also been the focus of fan displeasure and vitriol for his treatment of the original material, but if he could move on and disregard the past of his own creation, why can't everyone else?

I understand that completely.  I really am not trying to be belligerent or so closed minded that I can not agree with change.  However, the man who did developer the first Enterprise model did so with the the expressed approval of Gene Roddenberry.  That said, my entire point is simply this:  Don't throw away the baby in the bath water.  Yes, Trek can use a fresh approach and better stories.  Yes, Paramount has the right to do so as they wish.  Perhaps the one word I'm looking for here is "respect".  Respect for the original series, the cast, the temperaments of the crew  (ie: the Spock / McCoy or other similar charactor relationships) ..   that always made the series what it was.  IMHO you would not have Spock acting like a Vulcan with a misguided since of who he was with sporadic emotional outbursts ...  (due to human/Vulcan conflict).   That would be totally out of charactor.  Within that same context IMHO it is somewhat "out of charactor" for this ship to look as it does.  The poorly developed secondary hull with the pylons shifted to the back as an after thought as to where they should be simply looks out of place.

The other model shown here (though still quite different from TOS)  is at least a viable alternative and would show attention and respect to the original design.

But ... in the end this is only my opinion ..  and I'm quite sure it will be only slightly better than worthless to most in the long run.

If you aim at nothing:  you WILL hit it every time !

#### knightstorm

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #102 on: November 19, 2008, 07:57:27 pm »
If you consider that the Borg have been repeatedly defeated by the crew of a single starship, it undermines the notion that they are such an insurmountable threat that fleets and civilisations should simply fall before them - so I have enough onscreen evidence to question the merit of such a philisophical deviation (which ultimately contradicts Roddenberry's desire to pull away from the militarism of the TMP movies and the FASA material those movies inspired.)

The Enterprise beating the Borg in Best of Both Worlds was a fluke if you consider that after the failure with the deflector dish, everything that could go right for them did.  From the rescue of Picard, to them finding a crippling subroutine that the borg hadn't bothered to restrict.  Personally I think it was a rather sloppy ending to the story, but I guess it was the only way for the writers to get out of the corner they had written themselves into.  As for the Borg being an insurmountable threat, it is stated on screen that the battle of Wolf 359 cost the federation 39 starships, and 11,000 lives.  According to Sisko, the Defiant was developed in the immediate aftermath of the battle.  Then the Dominion show up, and the Federation gets the fire under its feet again.  Federation ships start packing more fire power, and newer starship classes look alot more badd@, with alot less bloat.

I may be wrong, but as far as I'm aware, Abrahms hasn't claimed or denied that STXI is a reboot - that term seems to have come from elsewhere, probably a fan site - what he did say was that this was an attempt to bring the character of the original series to the current generation with an eye to make it feel more real.  As for Abrahms, as a writer, he is perfectly entitled to interpret what has been before to help deliver his story and his vision.  That is a fundament of the right to freedom of expression and artistic licence (a notion that should be more readily appreciated within a modelling board/modding community than it currently appears to be).  Star Trek may be something we all enjoy (and likely for many divergent reasons), but in the end, it is a platform for someone to tell us a story that will hopefully entertain us.  No platform for telling fiction is immutable - indeed, the entertainment industry takes grotesque liberties when dealling with real life events, usually without so much as a whisper of complaint.  As a media consumer, you are entitled not to appreciate his vision, but you can't legitimately dismiss it without taking the time to examine it for yourself thereby making a fully informed judgement.

Writer Robert Orci saying it was not a reboot
http://trekmovie.com/2007/10/08/interview-orci-talks-casting-characters-canon-and-more/

Where paramount's president describes it as a reboot
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20233502_2,00.html

And yes, TROST does have the freedom to corrupt and pervert Star Trek in anyway he sees fit, but I also have the freedom to not spend \$15 to see it in the theaters.  I also have the freedom to look at everything he has released and remark about how it seems to confirm my worst fears, and until he releases something which indicates otherwise, I will not stop criticizing him.

Going back to the model of the Enterprise - it is recognisably a Federation hull - it has all the same basic components as the other Enterprises, so the community abreaction feels completely disprportionate to me.  She may not win many beauty contests, but depending on your aestheic preferences, the same can be said for all the other versions out there and even those fanships people have suggested as preferable alternatives.  In case anyone's actually interested, the TMP version is still my favourite.

I would agree with you that The TMP Enterprise was my favorite, although I do think they eventually managed to find a worthy successor with the E.  I don't know if I speak for everyone else, but the shape of the warp nacelles on the new Enterprise are what worry me the most.  They look like jet engines, and in the teaser, they appeared to have tail fins.  Since the look of the Enterprise kind of sets the whole tone for the story, I'm worried that this means its going to go back towards the overly cheesy flash gordonesque type of sci-fi that Star Trek excplicitly rejected from the beginning.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 08:07:57 pm by knightstorm »

#### Norsehound

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #103 on: November 19, 2008, 11:31:48 pm »
From the Orci interview:

Quote
TrekMovie.com: You guys have resisting labels for this film such as remake, reboot, etc….even prequel. Prequel has a pretty basic definition so what is wrong with calling it that?

Roberto Orci: But yet it is not entirely accurate. In some senses it is a prequel, but the word I would use, which is how Damon [Lindelof] describes it, is a re-invigoration or re-vitalization.

(emphasis mine)

The interviewer suggested that the movie is a prequel, but Orci says this isn't an accurate description of what they're doing. They want to keep the iconic 'bones' of the series and not tamper with them too much, which is where the 'prequel' notion comes from. You have the characters more or less the same, but telling a new story with them.

Contrasted to nBSG, which alters the 'bones' of the original series to make a completely different animal that tries to pass under the same name.

#### MajorRacal

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #104 on: November 20, 2008, 12:43:51 pm »
Nor am I Dan, although I'm sure my tone may seem otherwise here, (it's been a while since I last saw you around and it's good to know you're still kicking about)... I just get a tad frustrated when I see people jumping to conclusions and working themselves up into a twister based on rumour, speculation, misunderstanding and presumption.  Interestingly, the last two posts reinforce my point that the reboot "lie" hasn't come from Abrahms - so perhaps it'll open the door for others to actually take the time to consider the facts and not simply jump on the bandwagon of percieved wisdom.  But, given the weight of evidence of Human behaviour, I don't think I'll hold my breath for that one.  Besides, I have other things to concentrate on, so perhaps I should bow out and focus on them instead of investing so much time on a single thread.

#### OlBuzzard

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #105 on: November 20, 2008, 04:15:18 pm »
Nor am I Dan, although I'm sure my tone may seem otherwise here, (it's been a while since I last saw you around and it's good to know you're still kicking about)... I just get a tad frustrated when I see people jumping to conclusions and working themselves up into a twister based on rumour, speculation, misunderstanding and presumption.  Interestingly, the last two posts reinforce my point that the reboot "lie" hasn't come from Abrahms - so perhaps it'll open the door for others to actually take the time to consider the facts and not simply jump on the bandwagon of perceived wisdom.  But, given the weight of evidence of Human behaviour, I don't think I'll hold my breath for that one.  Besides, I have other things to concentrate on, so perhaps I should bow out and focus on them instead of investing so much time on a single thread.

Nah ..  dont bow out.  We all have our opinions on the matter.  In the end only that of Paramount will matter any ways.  I had hopped that in the end a little bit more respect had been used in the development of the new Enterprise.  IMHO if someone who was not connected directly with Paramount can developer a respectable model  ..   so can Paramount.

As for the movie itself  I plan on seeing it.

Just one other thought and I'll be done ..  We need to keep in mind that this is still PRE TOS and not the "final" TOS ship we are looking at.  It is still within the realm of possibility to get that happy median for a reboot  (IF they are really looking at it) ..  that would be to everyones satisfaction.  I say that tung and cheek since the simple fact is that some will gripe regardless.  ME PERSONALLY ....   if Paramount used something similar to the other ship that was illustrated in this thread .. that would be really cool.

If you aim at nothing:  you WILL hit it every time !

#### knightstorm

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #106 on: November 20, 2008, 07:16:16 pm »
Nor am I Dan, although I'm sure my tone may seem otherwise here, (it's been a while since I last saw you around and it's good to know you're still kicking about)... I just get a tad frustrated when I see people jumping to conclusions and working themselves up into a twister based on rumour, speculation, misunderstanding and presumption.  Interestingly, the last two posts reinforce my point that the reboot "lie" hasn't come from Abrahms - so perhaps it'll open the door for others to actually take the time to consider the facts and not simply jump on the bandwagon of percieved wisdom.  But, given the weight of evidence of Human behaviour, I don't think I'll hold my breath for that one.  Besides, I have other things to concentrate on, so perhaps I should bow out and focus on them instead of investing so much time on a single thread.

Abrams is the producer and director of the film.  Don't you think Orci would have consulted him before the interview to determine what aspects of the film he wanted released to the public.  Also understand something, it could be possible that outside of what I've complained about, the film is a good one that's true to the name Star Trek, however, in the court of my opinion, Abrams is guilty until proven innocent, and until he releases something which alleviates my concerns, I will not quietly sit back and smile.

#### Spartan159

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #107 on: November 28, 2008, 09:13:02 pm »
one of the things I like about series (be it Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings or whatever) is the continuity. Any universe that is well done and "consistant" with other works done in said universe appeals to me.  In this particular situation, the various ships of TOS, TMP, TNG etc etc looked to me like "Yeah, I can see that evolution..." Minor cosmetic changes are no big deal to me.  Pike's TOS Enterprise interiors to Kirk's TOS Enterprise to TMP Enterprise to TNG Enterprises... evolved but in a way that made sense to me.

Personally I preferred the TMP look.  C and D enterprise.. bleh... E and Voyager I could work with.  With this ST-XI they took the TMP  saucer and mated it with a secondary hull that makes NO sense to me other than to evoke some 50's fin car look and warp drives that look like hood ornaments.  How is this supposed to evolve over time to the ship Pike and Kirk commanded in TOS?  They did not use shuttles or something?  My point being that they did not even attempt to fit into the continuity, canon.  And that is why it upsets me.  Want more action, gratuitous more modern details etc? Fine, but the basic hull shape was fine, the corridors were fine, the bridge layout was fine.  Sure, add buttons, panels, compartments, screens whatever.  But why totally redesign it?

#### Darkseid

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #108 on: November 29, 2008, 06:17:44 pm »
It seems this Movie isn't a "Reboot".  It's true that they might mess with bits of Canon, but TNG, DS9, VOY and I'll assume ENT, will not be affected by this new movie.  In fact Abrams, Kurtzman and Orci are coming out with a Comic in Janurary that will bridge the time travel gap between this film and Nemesis.

Basically it's a post Nemesis comic explaining what's happening with Old Spock, and explains the origin of Nero.  Picard and the crew of the Enterprise-E are involved naturally.  I know in a traditional sense, comics aren't part Trek Canon, but since it is supposed to be a prequel to the new film, I'm going to assume Paramount considers this Canon.

I also have two theories about Nero's Ship.  It clearly doesn't look Romulan so it could be either a Reman mining ship, or a Klingon mining ship.  The ship is made to drill so it has got to be a mining ship, but whether or not it's a Reman or Klingon design is based on Nero's origin.  I'm not sure what that origin is yet, but if he is a Post Nemesis Villain he could have stolen it from the Reman's because it could have been used to Mine Dilitium on Remus.  But I also heard a rumor that he escapes Klingon imprisonment which could mean he stole it from the mines of Rura Penthe.  You never know though, it could be something different entirely.
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#### Cromwell

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #109 on: December 21, 2008, 12:48:10 am »
I read through the first page and couldn't go any further. So for that I will start off by apologizing to everyone being sensible. That said, this is childish. A few pictures of the new design and there are some who won't even give it a chance. I hope then that this goes the way of transformers and drives all the unforgiving fans who just want to live in a bubble of the past away and attracts a new generation who might appreciate it. Lets face facts, this is it. The last two movies barely turned a profit. The fandom was/is dying. The general fans just don't care anymore and only the hardcore fans are left. They had to take a chance if they were going to make people interested again. If you can't appreciate their attempt to save your fandom, then you don't deserve it.

I only logged to see what the community had to offer about the new movie, I'm sad to see this was it. I'm out.

#### Centurus

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #110 on: December 21, 2008, 12:55:09 am »
I read through the first page and couldn't go any further. So for that I will start off by apologizing to everyone being sensible. That said, this is childish. A few pictures of the new design and there are some who won't even give it a chance. I hope then that this goes the way of transformers and drives all the unforgiving fans who just want to live in a bubble of the past away and attracts a new generation who might appreciate it. Lets face facts, this is it. The last two movies barely turned a profit. The fandom was/is dying. The general fans just don't care anymore and only the hardcore fans are left. They had to take a chance if they were going to make people interested again. If you can't appreciate their attempt to save your fandom, then you don't deserve it.

I only logged to see what the community had to offer about the new movie, I'm sad to see this was it. I'm out.

Just because quite a few of us hate the new ship, doesn't mean we didn't have open minds about the movie.  When they announced the movie would deal with time travel, alot of us kept open minds.  When images of the new interiors came out, most of us still kept an open mind.

Your post is nothing more than an attempt to start another flame war yet again.  For you to say the rest of us don't deserve Trek, and hope we're driven away, you just prove you're just as undeserving as those you accuse.

This thread should just be closed to prevent more people from doing this.
The pen is truly mightier than the sword.  And considerably easier to write with.

#### knightstorm

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #111 on: December 21, 2008, 01:05:45 am »
I read through the first page and couldn't go any further. So for that I will start off by apologizing to everyone being sensible. That said, this is childish. A few pictures of the new design and there are some who won't even give it a chance. I hope then that this goes the way of transformers and drives all the unforgiving fans who just want to live in a bubble of the past away and attracts a new generation who might appreciate it. Lets face facts, this is it. The last two movies barely turned a profit. The fandom was/is dying. The general fans just don't care anymore and only the hardcore fans are left. They had to take a chance if they were going to make people interested again. If you can't appreciate their attempt to save your fandom, then you don't deserve it.

I only logged to see what the community had to offer about the new movie, I'm sad to see this was it. I'm out.

I'm sorry you had to be an Abrams whore.  The last few films did poorly because they strayed from what made Star Trek great.  This is not an attempt to save Star Trek.  Its an attempt to turn it into something its not, and if I have a choice of seeing it die, and seeing it raped by Abrams I will choose the former.  I am praying that this film will be a flop so Viacom will drop this idiocy.

#### intermech

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #112 on: December 21, 2008, 06:53:08 pm »
I think that most of us are ready for a new and fresh version of TOS. I understand the movie to be an attempt to sum the spirit of STAR TREK into one, action-packed event. I am looking forward to it. I think that what Cromwell is missing is that most of us do not think that this new version of the ship fits the spirit of Trek.

Who are we to comment? hmm. . .

We are the core of the starship design and modeling community, while not always in the spotlight, we have been here since the first SFC making new ships, adhering to, and respecting the canon of the Star Trek Universe. Several of us have gone on to professionally program and model for the franchise in some way, shape, or form. All of us have put in lots of time and effort into our work, mostly non-pay, which has served to forward the popularity of Star Trek even during gaps when there has been no movies or shows. We have helped to extend the playability of games that no one would have looked at twice if it was not for the Star Trek name on them. We know what makes a ship look good, we know what makes one look not so good, and a huge part of our evaluation of designs has to do with design flow in light of what we have seen on the TV and silver screens.  Some people around here spend years on a masterpiece, gathering input from fellow fans and with every move of the mouse considering the fine details which make a good design.
After all of this, we waited with bated breath to see a redesign which would attribute as much respect to established canon as we have, only to find that some "professional" designer, fan or not, whipped up this monstrosity in maybe a few weeks or months, when there are DOZENS of potential designs made by fans that would have far better served the purpose, and appealed to all fans, both lay and diehard. If you read this thread, you will see we are commenting on some of the most obvious problems with proportion and alignment. We don't want something that is going to "change what we know" we want something that is going to add to what we know.
If there is one place to discuss the design of a new Star Trek ship, to critique the details, to make recommendations, and say what we would like to see, IT IS HERE at the Dynaverse modeling forum. You will never find another community like it. Look at any other design on this forum, they are treated the same way.

PS, I appriciate all of you guys (and gals) and what you have contributed to my imagination! Merry Christmas.

#### Vipre

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #113 on: December 21, 2008, 08:36:19 pm »
Well said IM.
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#### Atolm-Rising

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #114 on: December 22, 2008, 10:53:41 am »
I cannot beleive this is still on pg1...lol
The point that all of you guys who don't like the design(and you have a right to do so) seem to miss, is that its all relative.
One person's garbage, is another's masterpiece.
You don't have to like it; But to call it a monstrosity, bastardprise, etc... is pointless, not to mention tactless.
So just as you guys would be offended if it was your hardwork that went into something that everyone pissed on, keep in mind the silent person who designed this ship.  So yeah hate it...But don't say it looks like crap just because it doesn't agree with your vision of what the ship and show is supposed to be.

Klingon Kristmas to all you, and to all Qa'Pla!

#### marstone

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #115 on: December 22, 2008, 12:29:56 pm »
I cannot beleive this is still on pg1...lol
The point that all of you guys who don't like the design(and you have a right to do so) seem to miss, is that its all relative.
One person's garbage, is another's masterpiece.
You don't have to like it; But to call it a monstrosity, bastardprise, etc... is pointless, not to mention tactless.
So just as you guys would be offended if it was your hardwork that went into something that everyone pissed on, keep in mind the silent person who designed this ship.  So yeah hate it...But don't say it looks like crap just because it doesn't agree with your vision of what the ship and show is supposed to be.

Klingon Kristmas to all you, and to all Qa'Pla!

well, I don't think you get the depth of what is said.  I have said it about people designs before, I don't like it, but I usually say it like this.

Awesome looking ship.  Doesn't fit the design style I like, but a great ship none the less.

That is my feelings about the new Ent.  The model work is awesome, visually a great ship.  The design I don't like.  The travel thing and the minor messing with the timeline wouldn't have made the ship turn out so different from the historical design.  A ship of this magnitude would have been on the drawing board for a long time (heck even our wet navy ships takes 20 years or more to go from blueprints to water).

That said, I am giving the movie a chance (might be a rental when I watch it, but I will give it a chance).  As for the next generation coming up who this show is suppose to be targeted towards (a person like my son, 16 years old) he has told me a negative on the ship so far.  But that can change when you see it  If the show is done well (something ST movies haven't done as of late) I can look past the cosmetics.  How many times has Batman got a new car in each remake.    Fans are a bit more entrenched on ST I guess, but time will tell.
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#### Centurus

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #116 on: December 22, 2008, 04:57:41 pm »
I cannot beleive this is still on pg1...lol
The point that all of you guys who don't like the design(and you have a right to do so) seem to miss, is that its all relative.
One person's garbage, is another's masterpiece.
You don't have to like it; But to call it a monstrosity, bastardprise, etc... is pointless, not to mention tactless.
So just as you guys would be offended if it was your hardwork that went into something that everyone pissed on, keep in mind the silent person who designed this ship.  So yeah hate it...But don't say it looks like crap just because it doesn't agree with your vision of what the ship and show is supposed to be.

Klingon Kristmas to all you, and to all Qa'Pla!

It's not really tactless.  None of us are trying to exert our opinions as fact.  And it's no less different than people calling the NX the Akiraprise, or is it the Akira being called the Akiraprise.  I can't remember.

Alot of people hate the designs just because they don't like it.

Alot of us hate the new Enterprise, and I personally feel it is a bastardprise, because I feel it doesn't begin to live up to what Trek has been.  It's a major let down to a great many of us.  To comment that our opinions are tactless and assume that we pay no respect to the work put into the model is incorrect, and you're wrong for assuming so, unless you know for a fact otherwise, which you don't.

The pen is truly mightier than the sword.  And considerably easier to write with.

#### OlBuzzard

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #117 on: December 22, 2008, 07:41:03 pm »
I cannot beleive this is still on pg1...lol
The point that all of you guys who don't like the design(and you have a right to do so) seem to miss, is that its all relative.
One person's garbage, is another's masterpiece.
You don't have to like it; But to call it a monstrosity, bastardprise, etc... is pointless, not to mention tactless.
So just as you guys would be offended if it was your hardwork that went into something that everyone pissed on, keep in mind the silent person who designed this ship.  So yeah hate it...But don't say it looks like crap just because it doesn't agree with your vision of what the ship and show is supposed to be.

Klingon Kristmas to all you, and to all Qa'Pla!

It's not really tactless.  None of us are trying to exert our opinions as fact.  And it's no less different than people calling the NX the Akiraprise, or is it the Akira being called the Akiraprise.  I can't remember.

Alot of people hate the designs just because they don't like it.

Alot of us hate the new Enterprise, and I personally feel it is a bastardprise, because I feel it doesn't begin to live up to what Trek has been.  It's a major let down to a great many of us.  To comment that our opinions are tactless and assume that we pay no respect to the work put into the model is incorrect, and you're wrong for assuming so, unless you know for a fact otherwise, which you don't.

I agree Centurus ..  While I personally believe that the NX-1 is a good idea and treated fairly the original series  (by that I mean it complimented it as opposd to take away from TOS designs) ..   this new "movie" version is more like a 57 Buick meets Buck Rogers  ( the 1930's version at that ) with a Star Trek application.  Centurus is also correct that this seems to be more of a let down ...  It is also true that it appears to be a hodge-podge of ideas thrown togeather.

I.M. has offered one of the better assessments so far.  Many good statements have been made ..   but his is perhaps one of the better ones.

IF we were all dead set against ANY redesign of the Enterprise then none of us would have approved of this:

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=163383952.0;id=16872;image

just to make sure that no one misunderstands ...   I will prefface my remaining remarks with "IMHO"  this "remake" or "redesign" of the Enterprise is much better in that it at least shows some tactful respect to the original designs and those who started the series.

Anyone here remember the episode " A Piece of the Action"?    What was the one thing that Kirk was not capable of?  (just thought I'd throw that out for free)

Do I expect another exact reproduction of Trek as it was in the old days?  NO!  I would think by now technology would have advanced enough to allow better story telling and a more exciting way to convey that story.  BUT by that some token there is something to be said about showing respect to the auto of a design, or  a book or as in this case an entire series.

Here  (once again ) is an attempt by someone to redesign with an attitude of fair treatement to TOS ...

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=163383952.0;id=16872;image

The new movie version is seriously lacking when compared to this model.
If you aim at nothing:  you WILL hit it every time !

#### Atolm-Rising

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #118 on: December 22, 2008, 08:13:56 pm »
I cannot beleive this is still on pg1...lol
The point that all of you guys who don't like the design(and you have a right to do so) seem to miss, is that its all relative.
One person's garbage, is another's masterpiece.
You don't have to like it; But to call it a monstrosity, bastardprise, etc... is pointless, not to mention tactless.
So just as you guys would be offended if it was your hardwork that went into something that everyone pissed on, keep in mind the silent person who designed this ship.  So yeah hate it...But don't say it looks like crap just because it doesn't agree with your vision of what the ship and show is supposed to be.

Klingon Kristmas to all you, and to all Qa'Pla!

It's not really tactless.  None of us are trying to exert our opinions as fact.  And it's no less different than people calling the NX the Akiraprise, or is it the Akira being called the Akiraprise.  I can't remember.

Alot of people hate the designs just because they don't like it.

Alot of us hate the new Enterprise, and I personally feel it is a bastardprise, because I feel it doesn't begin to live up to what Trek has been.  It's a major let down to a great many of us.  To comment that our opinions are tactless and assume that we pay no respect to the work put into the model is incorrect, and you're wrong for assuming so, unless you know for a fact otherwise, which you don't.

Uh it was stated many a times in the thread... please reread many of the comments previously.
My statements all stem from the Facts of this thread.
but the main thing remains... the lack of respect.  That is my gripe throughout this thread.  and "Akiraprise" and "bastardprise" all prove the tactlessness theme of this thread.
So If you guys mean something other than what you write, you should write that.

#### Norsehound

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #119 on: December 22, 2008, 10:44:50 pm »
In my opinion, the 'Akiraprise' is justified of the name because it was pretty clear NX-01 was a modification of the Akira model (Which was the most popular of the First Contact 'new' ships). This is a highlight of a trend in TNG to re-use models without consideration for continuity. That 'Romulan Drone Ship' from Enterprise wasn't only a re-use of the 'Flea ship' from Voyager, but also didn't follow on traditional Romulan hallmarks- other than the color. Nacelles from the "Romulan BOPs" from ENT appear to have originated from Dominion vessels.

I see people claiming the Trek 11 Enterprise is just "The TMP saucer" with new parts, but I think the only things the new saucer shares with the TMP one are the gridwork and the phaser points. The bridge seems to have more in common with the original than the TMP bridge, and there's no underside curve to the primary hull. Abrams clearly wants the 'bare metal, white' look from the -A, but it seems he's infusing a 'Retro 60s' and 'iPod' look in with the design.

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #120 on: December 23, 2008, 05:20:59 am »
I WILL NOT see the movie i HATE this new enterprise
it is the worse thing to happen to star trek
this movie should be a post-nemesis not a pre quel
there are great starship designs and there is crap

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#### intermech

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #121 on: December 23, 2008, 05:31:25 am »
Atolm, of all people, I don't want you to be insulted by my opinion of the ship design. The parts I like the most remind me of your models. I also don't want the use of the term "bastardized" to be misunderstood. Though I haven't used it in this thread, and usually don't outside of industry because of its origin/connotation, it is probably fitting in this case. The term usually refers to a piece of equipment that has been repaired or rebuild with parts from other equipment of a different model or manufacturer, or a piece of equipment modified to fit between two previously unrelated parts. Using that definition describes my opinion of this design  to a tee. It would be as if someone kit bashed my angular saucer and pylons with an unaligned half-sized Atolm secondary hull and double sized Atolm nacelles without altering the Aztecing to match. I know you are defending out-of-the-box designs, something with which I could stand in harmony. However, out-of-the-box needs to achieve a goal, or else it is just a crazy idea. Lets face it, the goal in a movie has to be aesthetic over all, a goal which this design, in my opinion does not achieve. If this ship was made by a newbie, or someone new to Trek or SFC, we might all be applauding the design, but this is created by some one paid to do a good job, not to mention the movie has been pushed back six months and this is the best they can do?

Don't misunderstand, I watch the trailer for this movie just about every night at least three times almost to the neglect of my child and spouse. I am looking forward to it. However, this is the first solid indication of what to expect and the concern is that the whole thing is heading down the wrong path. Hopefully not, but regardless, I will be sitting through it.

Admins, please note that this is not a flame war but rather a healthy discussion on star ship design.

#### FoaS_XC

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #122 on: December 23, 2008, 09:08:09 am »
I WILL NOT see the movie i HATE this new enterprise
it is the worse thing to happen to star trek
this movie should be a post-nemesis not a pre quel

Oh, you've seen it have you? you know what its going to be like without seeing it? Damn, i wanna have your powers of preconcep...i mean Foresight.

Apologies for degrading that into a shouting match, but I am really very tired of people forming opinions before seeing the movie. Go see it, if you hate it after that? have fun, thats your prerogative... but to hate it after seeing 2 trailers and 3 leaked images? thats not flying with me...
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#### FoaS_XC

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #123 on: December 23, 2008, 09:18:17 am »
Atolm, of all people, I don't want you to be insulted by my opinion of the ship design. The parts I like the most remind me of your models. I also don't want the use of the term "bastardized" to be misunderstood. Though I haven't used it in this thread, and usually don't outside of industry because of its origin/connotation, it is probably fitting in this case. The term usually refers to a piece of equipment that has been repaired or rebuild with parts from other equipment of a different model or manufacturer, or a piece of equipment modified to fit between two previously unrelated parts. Using that definition describes my opinion of this design  to a tee. It would be as if someone kit bashed my angular saucer and pylons with an unaligned half-sized Atolm secondary hull and double sized Atolm nacelles without altering the Aztecing to match. I know you are defending out-of-the-box designs, something with which I could stand in harmony. However, out-of-the-box needs to achieve a goal, or else it is just a crazy idea. Lets face it, the goal in a movie has to be aesthetic over all, a goal which this design, in my opinion does not achieve. If this ship was made by a newbie, or someone new to Trek or SFC, we might all be applauding the design, but this is created by some one paid to do a good job, not to mention the movie has been pushed back six months and this is the best they can do?

Don't misunderstand, I watch the trailer for this movie just about every night at least three times almost to the neglect of my child and spouse. I am looking forward to it. However, this is the first solid indication of what to expect and the concern is that the whole thing is heading down the wrong path. Hopefully not, but regardless, I will be sitting through it.

Admins, please note that this is not a flame war but rather a healthy discussion on star ship design.

Bear in mind im coming in mid-discussion, so I don't know the history of whats going on, but I feel the need to chime in.

You say that the ship doesn't adhere to the aesthetic of the movie... Again, we don't know what the specific aesthetic is, yet. I mean, sure, we know its Neo-60s chrome ish, but even in that there is a LOT of leway. I think we'll find that the ship DOES in fact fit into the design, and that our assumptions for the specific aesthetic have been wrong. Again, I remind folks that all we've seen is 2 trailers and a handful of leaked photos.
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#### OlBuzzard

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #124 on: December 23, 2008, 10:08:00 am »
IMHO this is a bit extreme:

I WILL NOT see the movie i HATE this new enterprise
it is the worse thing to happen to star trek
this movie should be a post-nemesis not a pre quel

Also :  Akiraprise is some what unjustified.  The NX-01 really is not a direct derivitive of the Akira..   The Akira IS however little more than an inverted starship.  (Just my opinion)

Ironically it seems that the only opinion that seems to be favored is one that supports the new one ?  How odd.

BTW...  I also believe that if the new version of the Enterprise looked like the one that some of us like (as posted in my previous response)  ...  some folks would still gripe !

Funny how some folks in many of the Trek communities can do so well in designing ships that really are so well done..  It's too bad that Paramount can't look at some of the work that's done out there and perhaps ..  just perhaps ... see some really good stuff that has been done over the years.

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#### intermech

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #125 on: December 23, 2008, 10:46:51 am »
Quote
Funny how some folks in many of the Trek communities can do so well in designing ships that really are so well done..  It's too bad that Paramount can't look at some of the work that's done out there and perhaps ..  just perhaps ... see some really good stuff that has been done over the years.

Good point!

#### knightstorm

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #126 on: December 23, 2008, 12:41:18 pm »
I WILL NOT see the movie i HATE this new enterprise
it is the worse thing to happen to star trek
this movie should be a post-nemesis not a pre quel

Oh, you've seen it have you? you know what its going to be like without seeing it? Damn, i wanna have your powers of preconcep...i mean Foresight.

Apologies for degrading that into a shouting match, but I am really very tired of people forming opinions before seeing the movie. Go see it, if you hate it after that? have fun, thats your prerogative... but to hate it after seeing 2 trailers and 3 leaked images? thats not flying with me...

You don't need precognition to point out that all of the footage that TROST has released so far seems to show that he is horribly perverting Star Trek.  All Abrams has to do is release something that would show he is NOT raping Star Trek.  He hasn't done that yet.  Therefore it can be surmised that that footage doesn't exist.  Stop telling people to give this abomination a chance.  Unless TROST gives us something to alleviate our concerns it is alright for people to hold this opinion.

#### atheorhaven

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #127 on: December 23, 2008, 02:31:17 pm »
My view is this.. this movie *seems* to be going down exactly the same road as "Lost in Space" did.. you know, that other show out around the time of TOS.  And that remake movie really didn't have any of the cheesy charm that the original did.

Testosterone laden and creepy is how that remake went.. but I'm wanting to see this movie for two reasons.  I want to see the new actor playing McCoy, and Zachary Quintos as Spock.  Simon Pegg as Scotty may be entertaining.  Neutral on John Cho.  I may stick my fingers in my ears and hum when the new guy playing Kirk is on.. and can't say as I'm impressed with the actress playing Uhura.  It takes more for that part than someone with a nice bod, believe it or not.. but I guess we'll see.

But the trailers actually do more to turn me off the movie than to try and sell me on it, to be honest, and I suspect that a lot of old Trekkies will be the same.  This *may* be a "wait for video" thing for me.. haven't decided.  But then again, I still haven't watched Nemesis yet either..
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#### Vipre

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #128 on: December 23, 2008, 03:56:46 pm »
Also :  Akiraprise is some what unjustified.  The NX-01 really is not a direct derivitive of the Akira..

The NX-01 is based directly off the Akira, sure it was "TOS-ified" for the part but sying it's "not a direct derivitive" of the Akira would be like making a Pre-TOS version of the Defiant then claiming it's not based on the Defiant. The Akira was popular, the creators played on that and intentionally built the NX to resemble an upside-down Akira.
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#### GotAFarmYet?

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #129 on: December 23, 2008, 05:50:11 pm »
You know...
I think by now, you guys should know how I feel about Trek in all its incarnations, and how I feel about new ideas in general.
that being said... I  have never felt, what I feel now, and that is disappointment and shame.  I have never felt That being a Trek fan would lump me with a group of the most close-minded people in the world.  I mean, Trek in any and all of its incarnations have always been about acceptence, and embracing of diverisity in all its forms.  It was, in a lot of ways Anti-Canonization.
Yet all we do is bitch about BS.  Its really all just silly.
How about, we not bash something until we have experienced it.  Is it really that hard?
I mean just WTF does the IDIC stand for?

I dunno, and on top of that, I don't really want to know, if it means me becoming a closed-minded person to new possibilities.
Now, if some of you take offence at this then fine, I appologize , but I am offended to read all these negative comments and prejudices about something that isn't even out yet.

LOL

Why would I take offense to someone who is expressing their opinion?

Either way it goes I don't care about the movie the script or anything like that, I just think it is a ugly looking ship. Thats it plain and simple does it effect anything else, nope, at least not to me. I just think they could have done better as we have all seen better looking ships out there on the net. The Enterprise version looked fine and they should have gone with something inbetween it and the TOS one. The one they have there doesn't really fit for the look it has, this one looks like the TMP and TNG Enterprises were humping and the gene pool was a little to close, probably closer than the banjo kid in Deliverance.

They should have broken away completely, or done a better job for the ship design.

I still by what I have said:
I don't like the Design of this ship, It looks out of porporsion and to much like like a bunch of Eras merged together. Soes it mean I will not see the movie no, does it mean the script is bad, no, it just means I don't like this design. Was it out of the box thinking thta made this, I don't think so; knowing how Studios work it was more than likily a compromise between executives to get the budget approved. Art in the movies is gone it is about how they can sqeeze a profit that matters now, and we the viewers or fans will suffer for it.

So now I still state they should have gone completely away and with a new design, or something more fitting with a TOS look to it. The current version if that is it just hit to many wrong buttons in my mind, and really made me wonder if another Studio besides Paramount should get Trek as I think they lost it.
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#### OlBuzzard

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #130 on: December 23, 2008, 07:06:48 pm »

I still by what I have said:
I don't like the Design of this ship, It looks out of porporsion and to much like like a bunch of Eras merged together. Soes it mean I will not see the movie no, does it mean the script is bad, no, it just means I don't like this design. Was it out of the box thinking thta made this, I don't think so; knowing how Studios work it was more than likily a compromise between executives to get the budget approved. Art in the movies is gone it is about how they can sqeeze a profit that matters now, and we the viewers or fans will suffer for it.

I agree .   I especially agree concerning the model.  It's simply a bad design PARTICULARLY when compared with TOS,  even if they are attempting to do a reboot of sorts in order to revive the Trek Saga.  Just the same they should try to make their new model with good taste and show some respect to the original.  Perhaps the biggest objection I have is that the model honestly looks thrown togeather ...  Frankly it looks like some of my early work when I was in High School.   I can honestly say that now that I have completed my OWN models of the Titan and Bass Master (refits of a sort) ...  while still trying to remain faithful to the original ideas.

OK ..   maybe that was a BAD example ..  BUT just the same.  GaFY has said is essentially correct.

BTW ..  please note: This does not mean I intend to boycot the movie.  It DOES mean that given the chance to voice a sound opinion on the model I will consistently say that there are better ideas out there that would have still given Paramount the change they were looking for with much better class.  One of those options has been posted in this thread.

To express that concern and to point out such an obvious better alternative is NOT being disrespectful, tactless or inflammatory.  It is IMHO simply that ..  an opinion.  It so happens that many also agree with that opinion.  There are one or two that I ALSO believe may be going to an extreme.  That is their right to do so.  I also, respectfully disagree with those extremes that suggest boycot and hate for the overall movie.

Until I see the movie for my self I will hold my opinion on its production.

« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 07:04:24 am by OlBuzzard »
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