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#### Starforce2

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2008, 09:27:48 am »
Do the textures on the saucer section seem not to quite match those on the secondary hull, as if it was a kitbash of some sort, and they didn't adjust the textures?  I have to say I'm not a fan of this look, and just when I was startin' to get a little excitement goin' for the series.  oh, well.

It looks like a friggen kitbash of the 1701-A saucer. Someone needs to be hung for this...

#### FoaS_XC

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2008, 10:14:21 am »
Okay, I don't like it, but I'm going to try something new that maybe you other fans don't quite get...

I'M NOT GONNA JUDGE UNTIL I SEE THE MOVIE! -___-... everyone is so ready to crucify jj abrams because of 4 spoiler images... my god people, doesn't this SOUND insane?!?

First off, I think JJ Abrams is a brave man for even attempting it. Star Trek fans are so picky and particular. They are NEVER happy. No matter what you do, you will chased by a mob with torches. Second, Trek fans don't seem to understand ARTISTIC LICENSE It's a new director. radical, maybe, but still, let him at least try. When nick myers came on after TMP to do TWoK, look at how different it was, and it worked out well. Third, its been 40 years since someone has touched the TOS era, of COURSE they are going to update it. Fourth, stop preventing people from sacrificing consistancy and accuracy and continuity for a good story. Arthur Conan Doyle wrote all sorts of sherlock holmes stories and there were GLARING inconsistancies... WHO CARES... does this stop it from being a good story?

and those are my problems with the average trekkie... Trekkies/Trekkers make me embarrassed to be a Star Trek Fan....

[SNIP] Someone needs to be hung for this...

-sigh- my case and point made manifest.
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#### Centurus

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2008, 10:27:02 am »
I could deal with the new bridge sets.  Did I like them, not really, but I could deal with them.

The uniforms, I liked them.  They remind me of how Bryan Singer changed and revamped the Superman costume for Superman Returns, but not to the same degree.  The uniforms for the new movie were more simple in change, tasteful.  Noticeable, but tasteful.

Spock showing more primal emotion, as indicated in one of the stills from the movie, is actually pretty good.  He's half human, and on top of that all of Trek lore establishes that Vulcans do have emotions but choose to suppress them.  And there is also indication that Vulcans actually have more powerful emotions than humans.  So having Spock show those emotions is somewhat a risque movie, but probably a wise one.  In the original pilot, you see Spock acting more like his crewmates, as opposed to the opposite which became the standard of how he presented himself.

But the ship and how drastically they changed it, that's a pill that will prove nearly impossible, if not truly impossible, to swallow.  More than likely, yes, it'll kill the film before it even opens.

Just certain things you don't change to a large degree, and the TOS Enterprise is one of them.
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#### Lieutenant_Q

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2008, 10:54:29 am »
You know, three years ago, when they came out with the new BSG, I was livid.  BSG might not have been a top-of the line program, but it had a large following, and many of the old fans felt screwed by what Ronald Moore did.  I remember saying back then, if you let them do this to a second rate program, whats to stop them from doing it to Star Trek?  The response I got from almost everyone, was, "They wouldn't dare do that to Star Trek."

Well, they did.

As badly as they butchered the original premise of BSG, I really hope they didn't go that far in ST:XI, but its not looking hopeful.

Unlike the new BSG, however, I am NOT giving this any more of a chance.  Some of you may see that as narrow minded, but I refuse to pay to see this, I'm not letting them say, "yeah, it sucked, but look at how much money we made in the box office, just goes to show you that Trek fans will watch anything with the Trek name on it."  As Picard said, "the line must be drawn..."  I'm choosing to draw it here.
"Your mighty GDI forces have been emasculated, and you yourself are a killer of children.  Now of course it's not true.  But the world only believes what the media tells them to believe.  And I tell the media what to believe, its really quite simple." - Kane (Joe Kucan) Command & Conquer Tiberium Dawn (1995)

#### FoaS_XC

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2008, 11:04:50 am »
[SNIP] As Picard said, "the line must be drawn..."  I'm choosing to draw it here.

Oh dear god. It's a movie, not king and country or a way of life.
Robinomicon
"When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life."

#### Centurus

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2008, 11:05:17 am »
You know, three years ago, when they came out with the new BSG, I was livid.  BSG might not have been a top-of the line program, but it had a large following, and many of the old fans felt screwed by what Ronald Moore did.  I remember saying back then, if you let them do this to a second rate program, whats to stop them from doing it to Star Trek?  The response I got from almost everyone, was, "They wouldn't dare do that to Star Trek."

Well, they did.

As badly as they butchered the original premise of BSG, I really hope they didn't go that far in ST:XI, but its not looking hopeful.

Unlike the new BSG, however, I am NOT giving this any more of a chance.  Some of you may see that as narrow minded, but I refuse to pay to see this, I'm not letting them say, "yeah, it sucked, but look at how much money we made in the box office, just goes to show you that Trek fans will watch anything with the Trek name on it."  As Picard said, "the line must be drawn..."  I'm choosing to draw it here.

I personally never saw the original or the reimagined BSG, so I cannot comment on it, and will take your word for it.

You know, I saw Of Gods And Men again a little over a month ago when it was shown in a theater over in Beverly Hills, and most of the cast and crew where there.  Hell, I was sitting several chairs away from Nichelle Nichols, and Walter Koening was pacing back and forth behind me throughout the last half of the film.

The CGI effects weren't the best, but you can tell that all the minds behind the project spent a great deal of time to try and stay true to Trek, while still giving us a new story to enjoy.
The pen is truly mightier than the sword.  And considerably easier to write with.

#### Lieutenant_Q

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2008, 11:20:27 am »
Okay, I don't like it, but I'm going to try something new that maybe you other fans don't quite get...

I'M NOT GONNA JUDGE UNTIL I SEE THE MOVIE! -___-... everyone is so ready to crucify jj abrams because of 4 spoiler images... my god people, doesn't this SOUND insane?!?

First off, I think JJ Abrams is a brave man for even attempting it. Star Trek fans are so picky and particular. They are NEVER happy. No matter what you do, you will chased by a mob with torches. Second, Trek fans don't seem to understand ARTISTIC LICENSE It's a new director. radical, maybe, but still, let him at least try. When nick myers came on after TMP to do TWoK, look at how different it was, and it worked out well. Third, its been 40 years since someone has touched the TOS era, of COURSE they are going to update it. Fourth, stop preventing people from sacrificing consistancy and accuracy and continuity for a good story. Arthur Conan Doyle wrote all sorts of sherlock holmes stories and there were GLARING inconsistancies... WHO CARES... does this stop it from being a good story?

and those are my problems with the average trekkie... Trekkies/Trekkers make me embarrassed to be a Star Trek Fan....

The main issue with this statement is that there really was little difference between TMP and TWOK.  There was supposed to be five years between the two movies, and really TWOK brought the main screen a little bit closer to SFB, which really wasn't a bad thing, since a lot of the Star Trek Following at the time were SFB fans.

It doesn't sound insane at all, its a logical and rational response to radical changes made to something that has dominated much of our lives.  Even if you're the type of fan who has only seen every episode once, and every movie, once.  You have spent a full month (comes out to about 31.4 days) of your life watching Star Trek, I really doubt that many of us here have seen each episode and movie only once.  That's not even counting the time we have spent in Trek inspired games.  I would say, conservatively, I have spent nearly two years of my life, watching, playing, writing, or even play acting, Star Trek.  And I'm only 28, I wasn't old enough to see the originals in their heyday.  I wasn't old enough to watch the originals on re-runs through the 70s.  I really wasn't even old enough to watch the first couple of seasons of TNG when they first aired.
"Your mighty GDI forces have been emasculated, and you yourself are a killer of children.  Now of course it's not true.  But the world only believes what the media tells them to believe.  And I tell the media what to believe, its really quite simple." - Kane (Joe Kucan) Command & Conquer Tiberium Dawn (1995)

#### TAnimaL

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2008, 11:51:03 am »
Quote

...really TWOK brought the main screen a little bit closer to SFB, which really wasn't a bad thing, since a lot of the Star Trek Following at the time were SFB fans.
Quote

I'd have to respectfully but vehemently  disagree on THAT - SFB fans have always been sub-sub-section of Trekkies, and as a fan since '69 and a SFB player since '80, I've often been dismayed at the version of Trek that the people at ADB have (I won't give them another dime, and haven't since 2000 - that's why I play SFC). But back to this thread...

The image of the "Enterprise" above is just like everything else about Abrams Trek - things (and people) are pretty and shiny, some fo the fans like it, but it's alienating the other half of the core audience. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is saying "whatever". The pictures of the new Bridge, the descriptions of the trailer, the casting... and even if it is a "decent or better" film, it probably won't be able to compete for long next summer. Based on the divisiveness of the fans over this, they're going to have problems making some  over this.

#### intermech

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2008, 12:15:00 pm »
I keep wanting to push that secondary hull back in relation to the rest of the ship. I don't like the underbite look of the deflector, and aft ventral portion of the secondary hull should have a sharp concave profile to it. The buzzards are sniffing the back of the saucer. The saucer is way too thick. The secondary hull is too small and the cut-aways around the deflector should be more pronounced. Overall, the design should be more utilitarian reflecting the technological limitations of the time period. If the design is to be streamlined, it should be so to conform to warp field geometry instead of the shape of a 1950's Buick. I was pretty content with the screen shots up to this point, but this might just ruin it for me. A sign of the times I suppose.

#### Chrystoff

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2008, 12:27:55 pm »
[SNIP] As Picard said, "the line must be drawn..."  I'm choosing to draw it here.

Oh dear god. It's a movie, not king and country or a way of life.
Don't worry, FoS. We're just venting. I'll most likely go and see this movie, but my expectations are low. But you're right, it's hardly going to be the end of the world if it does suck. I guess I just would like to see the franchise lead by someone who is an actual fan, like all of us.

#### Norsehound

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2008, 12:54:16 pm »
Quote
Unlike the new BSG, however, I am NOT giving this any more of a chance.

If you're willing to give Moore's butchered BSG a chance, then you should be able to take the worst of what Abrams gives out.

Aesthetics aside, if Abrams turns the action/adventure Trek into looping conspiracy theories and "Nitty Gritty Realism", complete with nauseating shakycam, then we'll know he went the same "successful route" that RDM went, and I'll consider it a failed film. Then again most nBSG fans would probably like it for those reasons above *Shrug*.

I just hope the era of 'the story must be a PC message' is over and instead we go back to the days of TOS: Weird encounters with things we can't understand, Godlike beings to which we are nothing but ants, and menacing empires poised to destroy the Federation.

#### Chrystoff

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2008, 12:55:02 pm »
That's an interesting point of view, FW. I hadn't thought of it that way. I don't think I fully agree, but you've given me something to think about.

#### Lloyd007

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2008, 01:20:24 pm »
If that is the new Enterprise it is fugly. They should have taken the model of the Defiant from ST:E...

#### Lieutenant_Q

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2008, 01:49:47 pm »
Quote
Unlike the new BSG, however, I am NOT giving this any more of a chance.

If you're willing to give Moore's butchered BSG a chance, then you should be able to take the worst of what Abrams gives out.

The one difference between this and Moore's BSG, it didn't cost me a dime to watch the mini-series.  I'm not shelling out 10 bucks to see this.
"Your mighty GDI forces have been emasculated, and you yourself are a killer of children.  Now of course it's not true.  But the world only believes what the media tells them to believe.  And I tell the media what to believe, its really quite simple." - Kane (Joe Kucan) Command & Conquer Tiberium Dawn (1995)

#### Centurus

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2008, 02:04:58 pm »
Quote
Unlike the new BSG, however, I am NOT giving this any more of a chance.

If you're willing to give Moore's butchered BSG a chance, then you should be able to take the worst of what Abrams gives out.

The one difference between this and Moore's BSG, it didn't cost me a dime to watch the mini-series.  I'm not shelling out 10 bucks to see this.

Would you shell out 10 bucks to send a flaming paper bag onto JJ's door step?
The pen is truly mightier than the sword.  And considerably easier to write with.

#### Greenvalv

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2008, 04:49:19 pm »
*prepares to duck*

I actually like this Enterprise... thinking in terms of a 'reboot', TOS was made when computers were large and slow, now technology has improved and I believe this Enterprise reflects that... given the design is very different from standard Federation ships, I still like it... It's very alien, especially the engineering section.

As for the buzzards sniffing the saucer, observe:

They are as high as the original Enterprise's were, perhaps it's the angle of the shot that's throwing everyone off...

P.S.  I think I read somewhere that this hating was the same reaction fans had to the Enterprise-D...

#### FoaS_XC

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2008, 06:31:33 pm »
I'm doing to this movie the same thing that I did to the neo-bsg series. Seperate it. It has nothing to do with the old star trek except the general concept. Has nothing to do with the continuity of the current franchise out there.
Robinomicon
"When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life."

#### Norsehound

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2008, 06:39:57 pm »
Indeed, it's no different from the many different continuities of the transformers franchise. Though it's a first for one of the "Big" Sci-fi universes to do it in a Television format.

Though the question remains: Will it be good? I haven't seen Lost or Cloverfield, but from what I know of those premises I can't say I'm confident. I want more action and less head-crunching mystery.

#### TAnimaL

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2008, 06:49:54 pm »
I was reminded earlier that the only movie Abrams actually directed was M:I III. Everything else he did was produce and write. Now, I love "Lost," but he doesn't have enough on his resume to reassure me...

#### atheorhaven

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##### Re: Trek 11 Enterprise
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2008, 07:22:56 pm »
Silly people, I think they forgot to add in some details.

Here, I'll be nice and correct them for them.

..ooOOoo..totally useless information..ooOOoo..

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